July 2002 Guestbook - Page 2

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Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:57:20
Comments
REPOSTING --- Loris wrote in her letter to Bill: "I need to do this in order to heal from my own pain. And at the same time to save others from having to go through the pain at all." --- Encouraging Reminder for you and the others: THIS work you and everyone is doing, the work on behalf of the Silent Lambs is your "SACRIFICE OF PRAISE, the FRUIT of LIPS which make PUBLIC DECLARATION to his name." NO? "Blasphemy!!" say the JWs and the DFing committees. They feel that scripture applies ONLY to field service or meetings/songs or informal witnessing or conventions? Well, read the verse right AFTER that one: "Moreover, DO NOT FORGET the DOING OF GOOD and the SHARING of things with OTHERS, for WITH SUCH SACRIFICES God is WELL PLEASED." (Hebrews 13:15,16). By SHARING our child abuse experiences, it not only heals ourselves, as you wrote, but also (like you wrote), we can DO GOOD TO OTHERS with similar circumstances and stop the underhanded way things have been handled for DECADES. This IS a sacrifice for which GOD IS WELL PLEASED! Have no doubts about it. Like that man, Peter, wrote from the UK, we cannot stop ALL the child abuse in the world -- otherwise we would have to get OUT of the world, as the Apostle Paul wrote (1 Cor.5:10) -- but we can DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT IN OUR MIDST, RIGHT UNDER OUR NOSES. --- And it is a OUR 'GIFT' that we can OFFER because we have "been there ourselves." Who better to UNDERSTAND what it is like? Can an elder (man) possibly UNDERSTAND? (If you received a copy of Bro. Anderson's letter sent out by SL, you'll know what I mean). No, even the best-hearted person cannot really UNDERSTAND UNLESS they have experienced it themselves. Therefore, what a SPECIAL GIFT it is for Silent Lambs to help other Silent Lambs. To be continued in another posts re: GIFTS... Love/SLC (yes, looks like I'm on a roll here... the thoughts keep coming.) ;)

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:58:13
Comments
REPOSTING THIS ONE, TOO --- SILENT LAMBS' GIFTS (& How Utilizing Them Will Cause GROWING PAINS in the Org): Back to Psalm Chapter 68 mentioned further above. I left out another verse I'd like to share. It is verse 18, very familiar to JWs: "You have ascended on high; You have CARRIED AWAY CAPTIVES; You have TAKEN GIFTS in the form of men, Yes, EVEN THE STUBBORN ONES, to RESIDE [AMONG THEM], O Jah God." --- GIFTS in the form of men (and women, that us!). CAPTIVES! What better word to describe CHILDREN WHO HAVE BEEN SILENCED! Talk about CAPTIVITY! Yet these RESIDE RIGHT AMONG YOU IN THE CONGS! And STUBBORN? Wow Boy! Bro. Bowen gets the "MOST STUBBORN JW OF THE CENTURY AWARD!" And Praise Jah for that! --- Now let's go look at Ephesians Chapter 4 where the apostle Paul requoted Psalms 68:18 in Verse 8 of Ephesians, (he expounded on Ps.68:18 throughout Ephesians 4:8 thru 16). Here's a few points about GIFTS -- if we HAVE THEM ("Gifts of Experience of Sex Abuse/Being Silenced, etc."), this is WHY we should SPEAK UP and USE THIS GIFT -- Vs. 11: "He gave some as apostles, some as PROPHETS (B. Bowen and B. Anderson and others who speak up, who are NEVER popular in their own "town," BTW), some as evangelizers, some as SHEPHERDS and TEACHERS (women like us who can shepherd the silenced and abused lambs and who can TEACH, FROM EXPERIENCE, THE UNINFORMED PUBLIC & UNINFORMED JWs about this!) with a VIEW TO the READJUSTMENT of the (GB/anointed) HOLY ONES, for MINISTERIAL WORK for the BUILDING UP of the BODY of the Christ (the ENTIRE BODY, including ALL abuse survivors) ... in order that we should NO LONGER BE BABES, TOSSED ABOUT as by WAVES and CARRIED HITHER and THITHER by EVERY WIND OF TEACHING by means of the TRICKERY of MEN (bad-boy elders and WTS attorneys who try to silence lambs and DF their supporters), by means of CUNNING in CONTRIVING ERROR (sex abuse policy of the GB). But SPEAKING the TRUTH (about abuse/coverup), let us BY LOVE GROW UP in ALL THINGS (including abuse/coverup) into him who is the head, Christ..." --- THESE ARE 'GROWING PAINS,' PEOPLE!! A NECESSARY THING! --- Lastly, and coincidentally, further down in vs.17,18,19 are those very familiar scriptures about the world being in darkness MENTALLY, and which also would be extremely appropriate for this subject as food for thought for publishers/elders/JC/CO/DO/GB who still are fighting the Silent Lambs: "This, therefore, I say and bear witness to in the Lord, that YOU NO LONGER GO ON WALKING JUST AS THE NATIONS ALSO WALK in the UNPROFITABLENESS of their MINDS (not thinking STRAIGHT about this entire issue), WHILE THEY ARE IN DARKNESS MENTALLY and ALIENATED from the life that belongs to God, BECAUSE of the IGNORANCE THAT IS IN THEM, because of the INSENSIBILITY OF THEIR HEARTS. Having come to be PAST ALL MORAL SENSE (of what is REALLY right and wrong re: sex abuse/coverup), they gave themselves over to LOOSE CONDUCT to WORK UNCLEANNESS of EVERY SORT (child sex abuse/rape and/or it's coverup) WITH GREEDINESS." --- Thank you for reading. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
05:59:22
Comments
REPOSTING --- And, thanks Loris for the "It Couldn't Be Done" poem! I liked that! Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:03:04
Comments
And Barb: I replied to your brainstorming post, too, but I didn't keep a copy of that, nor of many others I replied to last night. (Cry a bucket of tears!) --- I loved your lambs-with-mouths-sewn-shut idea! --- Ideas: Maybe a search on the net would turn up a retail outlet for stuffed animals/lambs, and maybe with a well-worded letter to the owner, they might DONATE a big bunch of stuffed lambs for the cause-? It never hurts to ask! --- And how about little lapel pins of little lambs? --- Or bumper stickers that say: www.silentlambs.org - ? Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:07:47
Comments
The knowledge of "good and evil" is the necessary component for "love and forgiveness". Mankind is as prone to do evil as sparks are to fly upward so say the scriptures. When evil is covered up and not dealt with, it encourages more evil. More evil requires more love and forgiveness. When there are no consequences for criminal behavior, the evil doer assumes that God is not interested in human events. Nothing could be further from reality. God notices when a sparrow falls! After the criminal is forgiven, then comes the righteous judgment of execution or restitution. But since man refuses to apply righteous judgment, God sends more evil for man to deal with. It's all plain as day in Deut.28. Anyone interested in a work at home project, email mlf1070@yahoo.com(put "Work at Home/sl" in subject.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:23:36
Comments
" Because sentence against a bad work has not been executed speedily, that is why the heart of the sons of men has become fully set in them to do bad." [Ecclesiastes 8:11] --- REPOSTED by SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:26:56
Comments
THIS NEXT SCRIPTURE should humble parties on both sides of the fence --- "There exists a vanity that is carried out on the earth, that there exists righteous ones to whom it is happening AS IF for the work of the wicked ones, and there exist wicked ones to whom it is happening AS IF for the work of the righteous ones. I said that this too is vanity." --- King Solomon, Ecclesiastes 8:14. --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:28:37
Comments
" WE MUST OBEY GOD AS RULER RATHER THAN MEN." [Acts 5:29] --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:32:31
Comments
After the Panorama show, SilentLambs and the world say to the GB re: the pedophile database at HQ --- "YOU YOURSELF ARE SAYING IT." [Luke 23:3] --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:37:17
Comments
" In an ACCEPTABLE TIME I HEARD YOU, and in A DAY OF SALVATION I HELPED YOU. LOOK! NOW IS THE ESPECIALLY ACCEPTABLE TIME. LOOK! NOW IS THE DAY OF SALVATION." {Galatians 6:2} --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:38:44
Comments
Abuse Survivors say to each other: "For if we were out of our mind, it was for God; if we are sound in mind, it is for you." {Gal. 5:13} --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:40:36
Comments
The GB says of itself: "WE ARE THEREFORE AMBASSADORS SUBSTITUTING FOR CHRIST." {Gal. 5:20). Would Christ Hush-Hush the Lambs? --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:42:14
Comments
Ooooops! I switched books and didn't realize it. That scripture above is from 2 Corinthians 5:20; and the one above that is from 2 Corinthians 5:13 (NOT Galatians!) Sorry about that. Been up too long. Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:43:50
Comments
AND... the scripture ABOVE those two (re: the Acceptable Time and day of salvation) is from 2 Corinthians 6:2!! So Sorry! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
06:56:31
Comments
" IN NO WAY are we (Silent Lambs) giving ANY CAUSE for STUMBLING, that OUR ministry might NOT be found fault with; but in EVERY WAY we recommend ourselves as God's ministers (to the Lambs), by the ENDURANCE OF MUCH, by TRIBULATIONS, by cases of NEED, by DIFFICULTIES, by BEATINGS, by (emotional) PRISONS, by DISORDERS, by LABORS, by SLEEPLESS NIGHTS... by PURITY, by KNOWLEDGE, by LONG-SUFFERING, by KINDNESS, by HOLY SPIRIT, by LOVE FREE FROM HYPOCRISY, by TRUTHFUL SPEECH, by GOD'S POWER; through the weapons of RIGHTEOUSNESS on the RIGHT HAND and on the LEFT, through GLORY and DISHONOR, through BAD REPORT and GOOD REPORT; as DECEIVERS and YET TRUTHFUL, as BEING UNKNOWN AND YET BEING RECOGNIZED, as DYING and yet, LOOK! WE LIVE, as DISCIPLINED and yet NOT DELIVERED IN DEATH, as SORROWING but EVER REJOICING, as POOR but MAKING MANY RICH, as HAVING NOTHING and yet POSSESSING ALL THINGS. OUR MOUTH HAS BEEN OPENED TO YOU, (GB) Corinthians, OUR HEART HAS WIDENED OUT. YOU ARE NOT CRAMPED FOR ROOM WITHIN US, BUT YOU ARE CRAMPED FOR ROOM IN YOUR OWN TENDER AFFECTIONS. So, as a RECOMPENSE IN RETURN --- I (we) SPEAK as to children -- YOU, TOO, WIDEN OUT." [2 Corinthians 6:3-13] --- Is that not BEAUTIFUL or WHAT? I can't believe I stumbled across it! What a perfect way to end the night. Now I don't even care all the posts were lost. That scripture is TOO BEAUTIFUL & PERFECT! Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:39:22
Comments
From THE WATCHTOWER of November 15, 1962, page 693 --- w62 11/15, 693 --- The Benefits of Subjection to Authorities --- 9 Worldly authorities render a judgment and punish persons, whether they are inside the congregation or outside, if they violate the laws of decency and good order. The violators have no right to complain at such punishment, as Paul showed by his words before Caesar's judgment seat. (Acts 25:11) Hence the Christian congregation cannot protect any of its members if they steal, smuggle, commit bigamy, murder, libel, defraud, and so forth. The congregation must release such guilty members to punishment by worldly authorities. Since the guilty break the laws of the land and thus oppose the "authority," they are taking a stand against God's arrangement. --- 10 The Christian congregation has no orders from God and has no right to protect such opposers and lawbreakers from the due punishment by the "authority" of the land. We cannot hinder, oppose or condemn the execution of the krima or judgment by aiding or shielding lawbreakers. To do so would put the Christian congregation also in opposition to God's arrangement. Besides letting the krima or "judgment" take its course upon offending members who bring reproach upon God's people, the congregation may disfellowship such lawbreakers. The congregation does not want to deserve a krima or "judgment" with the lawbreakers by siding or cooperating with them and opposing the worldly "authority." It also wants no reproach. --- This was originally posted by Loris who got it from a friend in Alaska. SLC is REPOSTING IT since I kept a copy of it!

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:41:39
Comments
To the person who asked for a copy of the UK LETTER read on 7/14/02: Here's a link where you can read a transcript of it: <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32092&site=3&page=2> --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:44:27
Comments
The UK WT letter said --- Later, this requirement to consider testimony of two or three witnesses was confirmed by Jesus. (Matthew 18:16) --- The little girl sees Jesus sitting over on the rock, in among the crowd... --- She saw him here last week. --- She wanted to get to him then, but she lost her nerve. --- "Shall I try today to reach him?" she wonders to herself. (She'd been thinking about it all week, trying to work up the courage...) --- Before she realizes it, she is walking towards Jesus sitting on the rock. --- Her pedophile uncle, and disciple of Jesus, tries to stop her in her tracks... --- Jesus rebuked the man saying, "Let the little child come to me, and do not try to stop her...:" --- So the little girl makes it up to Jesus' lap and he puts his arms around her and hugs her. She feels safe now. She thinks she has enough courage. It's now or never. So she leans up and whispers in Jesus' ear that her uncle, who brought her there, has been touching her in ways that he should not. --- Jesus gets a perplexed look all over his face, and sets her back down, and pointing to the uncle says: "Come with me over here behind this tree." --- The uncle follows Jesus to the tree, but he's not the least bit worried. He knows Jesus would NEVER go against Deut. 19:15... --- Jesus looks the uncle straight in the eye and asks him, "Did you do as this child says?" The uncle exclaims, "NO LORD! I would NEVER do any such thing. The girl is making up fantasies." --- Jesus says, "Okay then Brother. Good enough. That's all I needed to know. Continue following me as my disciple..." --- Jesus goes back to the little girl, kneels down to her level, and says, "I'm sorry child, but because there is no one else to back up what you say, I cannot believe you, nor can I do anything about what you have told me. I cannot get myself in a jam without another witness to what you described. However, I do hope you will come and see me again, because you KNOW I love you and care about you. Look, here's your uncle now... run along so your uncle can take you home, and be a good little girl and don't ever tell anyone else what you told me... ESPECIALLY don't tell any of the Roman soldiers... because you know how they hate me and my disciples already, and you wouldn't want to make any trouble for us, now would you?" --- The little girl is trembling, frozen on the spot, she cannot even speak a word as one last tear trickles down her cheek... all hope has vanished, and the look of death covers her face like a veil... --- Jesus calls his disciples to him and they travel along the road a few miles where another crowd has assembled. He rests himself on a hillside and begins to teach the crowd: --- "Moreover, if your brother commits a sin, go lay bare his fault between you and him alone. If he listens to you, you have gained your brother. But if he does not listen, take along with you one or two more, in order that at the mouth of two or three witnesses every matter may be established." --- And at that moment the uncle, hiding the wicked smirk on his face, bent down and kissed Jesus' feet, mouthing, "Praise You Lord, Praise You... Your words are sayings of everlasting life (for sneaky little pervs like me)..." END OF STORY.
REPOSTED by SLC.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:48:04
Comments
REPOSTING by SLC, prior posts mentioned District Attorneys across America taking the Catholic Church cases to Grand Juries re: the Cardinal's cover-ups of the sex crimes in the church. That "handwriting on the wall" of what is happening to the CC prompted this "At that moment the fingers of a (District Attorney's) man's hand came forth and were writing in front of the (grand jury) lampstand upon the plaster of the wall of the (HQ) palace of the (GB) king, and the (GB) king was beholding the back of the (District Attorneys') hand that was writing. At that time as regards the (GB) king, [their] very complexion[s] [were] changed in [them], and [their] own thoughts began to frighten [them], and [their] hip joints were loosening and [their] very knees were knocking each other. --- And the (GB) king was calling out loudly to bring in the (legal dept.) conjurers... The (GB) king was answering and saying to the (legal dept.) wise men of Babylon, 'Any (lawyer) man that will read this writing and show me its very interpretation, with purple (power) he will be clothed and a necklace of gold ($$$$) about his neck, and as the third one (power/prestige) in the kingdom he will become.' --- At that time all the (legal dept.) wise men of the (GB) king were coming in, but they were not competent (humble) enough to read the writing itself or to make known to the (GB) king the interpretation. Consequently, King (GB) Belshazzar was very much frightened and his complexion was changing within him; and his grandees (elders around the world) were perplexed. --- As regards the (Erica) queen, because of the words of the (GB) king and his (elders) grandees she entered right into the banqueting hall. The (Erica) queen answered and said, 'O (GB) King, keep living even to times indefinite. Do not let your thoughts frighten you, nor let your complexion[s] be changed. There exists a capable man in your kingdom (halls) in whom there is the spirit of holy gods... and insight and wisdom like the wisdom of the gods were found in him... an extraordinary spirit and knowledge and insight to interpret dreams (of silent lambs) and the explanations of riddles (BOE letters) and the untying of knots (WTS' sex abuse policy) had been found in him, in (Bill Bowen) Daniel, whom the (GB) king himself named (elder) Belteshazzar. Now let (Bill Bowen) Daniel himself be called, that he may show the very interpretation.' --- Accordingly (Bill) Daniel himself was brought in before the (GB) king (via the website/the letters/the media, etc.)... The (GB) king was speaking up and saying to (Bill) Daniel, 'Are you the (elder) Daniel that is of the (silent lamb) exiles of Judah...? ... And now there have been brought in before me the (legal dept.) wise men and the conjurers, that they may read this very (District Attorneys') writing, even to make known to me (GB) its interpretation; but they are not competent (humble) enough to show the very interpretation of the word. And I myself have heard concerning you, that you are able to furnish interpretations and to untie knots themselves. Now, if you are able to read the writing and to make known to me (GB) its very interpretation, with purple (slander) you will be clothed...' --- At that time (Bill) Daniel was answering and saying before the (GB) king: "Let your gifts prove to be to you yourself, and your presents do you give to others (the legal dept. attorneys). However, I shall read the (District Attorneys') writing itself to the (GB) king, and the interpretation I shall make known to him. As for you, O (GB) king, the Most High God himself gave to Nebuchadnezzar (that would be Russell/Rutherford/Knorr/Franz, et al) your father the kingdom (halls full of JWs) and the greatness and the dignity and the majesty. --- And because of the greatness that He gave [them], ALL PEOPLES, national groups and languages (JWs around the world) proved to be quaking and showing fear before [them/GB]. Whom [they] happened to want to, [they were] killing (blood issue); and whom [they] happened to want to, [they were] striking (imprisonment for no military service); and whom [they] happened to want to, [they were] exalting (power to the elite elders/COs/DOs); and whom [they] happened to want to, [they were] humiliating (the Silent Lambs). --- But when [their] heart became haughty and [their] own spirit became hard, so as to act presumptuously, [they were] brought down from the throne of [their] (WTS) kingdom, and [their] own dignity was taken away from [them]. And from the sons of mankind (the JWs) [they were] driven away, and [their/former GB] very heart was made like that of a beast, and with the wild asses [their] dwelling was (no more holy spirit on the GB)... until [they] know that the Most High God is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind, and that the one whom he wants to, he sets up over it (Jesus Christ). --- And as for you, his son (current GB, including TJ) Belshazzar, you have not humbled your heart, ALTHOUGH YOU KNEW ALL OF THIS. But against the Lord of the heavens you exalted yourself, and they brought before you even the vessels of his house (the children Silent Lambs); and you yourself (GB) and your (legal dept.) grandees...have been drinking wine from them, and you have praised mere gods of silver and of gold, copper, iron, wood and stone, that are beholding nothing or hearing nothing or knowing nothing; but the God in whose hand your breath is and to whom all your ways belong you have not glorified. --- Consequently from before him there was being sent the back of a (District Attorneys') hand, and this very writing that was inscribed: ME'NE, ME'NE, TE'KEL and PAR'SIN... ME'NE, God has numbered the days of your (WTS) kingdom and has finished it. TE'KEL, you have been weighed in the balances and have been found deficient. PE'RES, your kingdom (power & $$$$) has been divided and given to the (Silent Lambs and their attorneys).' At that time Belshazzar (GB & TJ) commanded, and they clothed (Bill) Daniel with purple (slander), with a necklace of (disfellowshipping) gold about his neck; and they heralded concerning him that he was (NOT) to become the third ruler (elder) in the kingdom (halls) (any more). In that very night Belshazzar (GB) the Chaldean (false prophet) king was killed, and Darius the Mede (Uncle Sam's Lawyers) himself received the (WTS) kingdom, being about sixty-two years (too late)." --- (Daniel 5:5-30).

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:52:54
Comments
REPOSTING --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Fri, 5 Jul 2002 22:11:24 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Distribute Freely Questions to Ask Jehovah's Witnesses When They Call at your Door Recently the Public Information Department for Jehovah's Witnesses has made certain comments to the media. Each remark confirms a certain aspect of Watchtower Policy regarding child molestation that most members of Jehovah's Witnesses are not aware of. To encourage Jehovah's Witnesses to educate themselves regarding how their church handles molestation issues we suggest asking them the following questions when they call at your door. 1. Why do elders in your church only report child molesters in States where it is legally required? Tennessean/Nashville-05/11/02-Brown said, “If parents come to congregation leaders with concerns that their child is being abused, the leaders follow state law. If state law requires parents to report the abuse, congregation leaders tell them that.” Paducah Sun-Paducah KY-1-28-01-“Brown said the church does not necessarily equate reporting the matter to law enforcement to protecting the child because "not all the time does government authority provide the protection the child needs.” LOUISVILLE-COURIER-Louisville, KY-May 8, 2002-“Leaders of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, ‘say that in States that do not require reporting of abuse, they prefer taking steps to protect children while not breaching what they see as confidential communications between elders and members.” 2. Do you support your church policy of requiring pedophile's to call at my home? AP/CNN-May 9, 2002-“J.R. Brown, a spokesman for the denomination, said that anyone found guilty of molestation by a church judicial committee is removed from all positions of responsibility and cannot evangelize door-to-door without being accompanied by a fellow Jehovah's Witness.” Asbury Park Press-New Jersey-5/14/02-“Semonian said anyone convicted of child molestation cannot hold a position of authority in the church and cannot perform church work alone.” Watchtower Media Website Statement-Brooklyn, NY-“In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All the factors are considered carefully...'Let us say that 20 years have passed... ‘the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation.” 3. Do you know how many child molesters are in your local Kingdom Hall? If so what are their names? Paducah Sun-Paducah, KY 1-28-01-“Moreno of Watchtower Legal, agreed with Bowen's charge that a congregation would also not be told if a pedophile had joined the flock." News Channel 6-Paducah, KY-5-15-02-“Members at Bowen's old Kingdom Hall in Draffenville admit discouraging members from telling just anybody. "The difference between needless gossip, let's say, and withholding information from those who have a right to know is two different things completely," says Jehovah's Witness Bruce Waite.” Help Jehovah's Witnesses to understand Watchtower Policy by sharing statements their leaders have made to media, encourage them to write home office and demand proper changes be made to protect all children who come in contact with Jehovah's Witnesses.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:54:05
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 15:24:13 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Evil Anderson in today's Watchtower Study The following picture appears in today's (7-14-02) Watchtower Study in the article, “Find the Light in Jehovah's Righteousness” on page 16. --- Sister Anderson is pictured to the left, now why would they use Anderson's picture if she was DF?

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:54:14
Comments
Repost from webmaster@antijehovahswitness.com go to: http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=020714.htm where Paul Gillies has this to say about UK witnesses position on abuse and the victim: Jehovah's Witnesses further believe that it is the absolute right of the victim, his or her family, or any others to report the matter to the authorities if they so choose. There are certainly no sanctions against any congregation member who reports an allegation of child abuse to the authorities." A phone number is given. So i guess there will be a lot of phone calls being made and elders being made look stupid. I don't know when this was posted as i don't usually look on the official sites anymore, because its hard to believe any thing they say after the Child abuse, UN affiliation and New, old light that keeps changing. I was just getting an idea of how many official sites the JWs have, considering they admonish their followers for using it. Hope the Guestbook doesn't get wiped again.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:54:49
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 00:31:31 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: outraged brother Saturday, July 13, 2002 Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses 25 Columbia Heights Brooklyn, New York 11201-2483 Fax: (718) 560-5619 RE: Letter of reprimand Dear Brothers: I'm a parent of two grown, spiritual children. My wife and I did everything within our ability to perform our God mandated responsibilities. We endeavored to train them to be persons who someday could stand before the True God Jehovah on their own two feet – apart from us – and be found approved. We taught them that we all stand accountable. No one here on planet earth is free from accountability. Jehovah will judge all of us and none of us are above any others. You are not following your own recommendations in the manner you are dealing with child rape policy. You are belying the very principles that you insist that the flock live up to. You have disregarded every principle that we hold dear by your stonewalling of cries for assistance. I ask you – WHY? Why won't you change! Is it because there are those on the GB and/or high organizational station that have been guilty of pedophilia? I can think of NO other reason why you would not help the flock be protected other than that you are covering over the sins of ones amongst yourselves! If so, you will not succeed in this mission. You may get a few more loyal JW's DF'd. You may mangle and malign a few more reputations. But as with the wicked kings of ancient Israel – you will not succeed. Jehovah will expose you and will hold you accountable. I pray that you will repent of your stubborn Balaam-like course. You have in this matter become like high priest Eli. You should re-read the story since you've apparently forgotten it. Eli allowed his sons to go unpunished in the matter of defiling the young ladies in the temple and being drunk while on priestly duty. As did Eli and his sons, you will come to your end if you do not immediately cease supporting and ignoring the type of loose conduct that they were guilty of. As a parent I will tell you that you have NO RIGHT to mandate the kind of useless “policy” that elder bodies are forced to follow. I am outraged and disgusted by the kind of meddling and manipulation that causes concerned parents to be removed from congregations while allowing our children to be raped. I fully trust in Jehovah the True God to remedy this matter. I only hope that you will collectively be able to be the ones to head up that remedy - before Jehovah kicks you out of office and gets someone else to do it. You are grossly out of line here brothers. I recommend that you meet together and fall upon your collective faces and beg Jehovah for his forgiveness and direction in fixing not only the child rape policy but the sullied reputations of those having at heart the best interests of our congregations. Sincerely, Your brother

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:55:23
Comments
German TV magazine KONTRASTE ( http://www.kontraste.de broadcasted a very well researched report on child abuse within the JW community. The report was only 10min long, but it was German prime time - the very first topic after the most watched daily news magazine. KONTRASTE (Contrasts) is very reputable TV magazine. Two victims were interviewed and a JW spokesman. Protecting the Perpetrator Comes First - Child Abuse Among Jehovah's Witnesses by Caroline Walter and Marcus Weller caroline.walter@sfb.de?subject=Kontraste%2020.06.02,%20Jehova) Once again a scandal within a religious community involving sexual molestation of children by "men of God". Caroline Walter and Marcus Weller report about a crime against children and a sinister cartel of silence. Ursel Wagner was 9 years old when she was sexually abused by a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Ursel Wagner: "This brother used to visit us and made the offer to my parents: "I would like to put the little girl to bed, and her read a good night story that will be fun." Cornelia Wagner, Mother: "Imagine, as I am there ironing my clothes and doing the dishes, this young man is in my daughter's room, reading stories to her and abusing her in the next room." Ursel Wagner: "In some way, I knew that it was not right what he did to me. But I was confused, because that was something that did not exist among Jehovah's Witnesses. At that time, Ursel's parents were Jehovah's Witnesses also. When her daughter told them about the molestation, they proceeded the way they were required: they reported the incident to the elders in their congregation. But the elders told them not to make trouble and keep it quiet. Cornelia Wagner: "I was shocked. I could not believe what the elders demanded for me to do: remain silent. They gave some flimsy reasons and said by this we would also protect our daughter." The family got no support by their spiritual leaders, instead the opposite was true: the perpetrator was protected, fellow congregation members are not warned . Ursel Wagner: "It still makes my angry how these people dealt with it back then. I am sure we could have saved some other girls from being molested. But nothing happened, nothing at all." Cornelia Wagner, Mother: "They made us feel that the roles had switched, we had become the perpetrators. It was as if we were accusing them and that did not fit their perfect picture." Jehovah's Witnesses view themselves as a chosen group that lives rigidly by Bible principles. Jehovah's Witnesses believe in a soon-to-come doomsday called Armageddon that is survived by their members only. Their ultimate earthly authority is the worldwide operating Watchtower Society. 210.000 Jehovah's Witnesses live in Germany. They spread their teachings via the magazines "Watchtower" and "Awake". The obedience to the organization is obligatory for all members. Stephan Wolf was a Jehovah's Witness for 20 years. Today he supports others leaving. More and more victims of child abuse contact him. Stephan E. Wolf, Ausstieg e.V. (Exit Inc.) "The woman's attitude is to be in submission and follow the principle of headship, this also applies towards children that are required to be obedient - if necessary violently. I think this prevailing attitude promotes an environment in which child abuse is more likely than in other parts of society." Ruth Schlegel was born into a Jehovah's Witnesses environment. Her family lived strictly to the rules of the organization. Her father was an elder. Ruth Schlegel: "My father started to molest me when I was 9 years old. It began with touching me. It developed into sexual intercourse. That last time was when I was 15 or 16 or so when I was raped." Ruth's mother reported the molestation to the highest leaders in the congregation, the Elders. But yet again nothing was done and the perpetrator was not reported to the authorities. For years after, Ruth's fathers abused other girls. Ruth Schlegel: "In the elders opinion they had done enough. They had a meeting. They had spoken to him and had demanded that he had to apologize to me. They had done everything the Watchtower Society says and so the case was closed. That was their opinion, from the religious point of view because everything from outside i.e. the law, reporting to the police did not matter because the Society says they are above law, they deal with it internally." Protecting the perpetrator and silencing victims - normal procedure of Jehovah's Witnesses? Dr. Andreas Fincke, Protestant Church expert on cults: "They have a closed society. When wrongdoing occurs they appoint judicial committees to deal with conflicts and moral transgressions. The idea behind this attitude is that you don't go to court with Brothers and Sisters but to deal with those things internally first. That sounds good but in reality it often results with those in authority the elders, always men, judging matters they have no business getting involved with." Do elders actually judge in cases of child abuse? We asked Jehovah's Witnesses: Uwe W. Herrmann, Speaker of Jehovah's Witnesses: "Because of our Biblical understanding we believe that there are some specific sins for which the local elders are responsible." PAY ATTENTION TO YOURSELVES AND TO ALL THE FLOCK is the title of the elders' manual. And it is there the Elders are told how to proceed: "Some disputes should not be dealt with at secular courts." And: "...it is the Elders decision if the statements are trustworthy." Dr. Andreas Fincke, Protestant Church expert on cults: "For a Jehovah's Witnesses who has become the victim of child abuse, it is impossible to get justice within the organization. The simple reason is that you need two witnesses that confirm the incident and that is almost always impossible when it comes to child abuse because there are of course no witnesses." The Watchtower Society has built a wall of silence around the perpetrators called confidentiality. By making a simple denial pedophiles can live their inclination and remain in their positions within the congregation. Stephan E. Wolf, Ausstieg e.V. (Exit Inc.) "The main principle is to create a perfect image to the outside world. In their own eyes they are models to the outside world concerning moral standards, one of the buzzwords they like to use in the media. Having pedophiles in their midst does not fit that image, let alone the fact that the public gets to know that they are being protected in the movement. So, they are trying everything they can, to prevent the facts form coming out to the public." But this perfect image is also intended to help Jehovah's Witnesses to get the recognition as a church. For 11 years, they have been going to court through all channels to get the same religious status as the Catholic and the Protestant Church. Recognition would result in several cost saving privileges i.e. to raise a church tax to create revenue. Thus, the accusations of child abuse does not fit the image presented, yet more and more cases are coming out to the open while the organization keeps on denying there is a problem. Uwe W. Herrmann, Speaker of Jehovah's Witnesses: "We, the Religious Community of Jehovah's Witnesses in Germany, don't know of any cases of child molestation here in Germany." Stephan E. Wolf, Ausstieg e.V. (Exit Inc.) "I think the time has come that the public sees there is something going on in the Jehovah's Witnesses organization, pedophiles within have a perfect environment where nothing is being done and they do not have to be afraid." Uwe W. Herrmann, Speaker of Jehovah's Witnesses: "Basically, we don't punish at all. Only God can punish. The Elders of a congregation can only check if someone is repentant or not. If he repentant then the sinner gets further help to get over that sin." It seems that only the victims get punished. Ruth Schlegel has been expelled from the Witnesses because of smoking and adultery. She still fights with the aftermaths of the abuse.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:56:50
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REPOSTING --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 11:01:52 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: WT moves on silentlambs Draffenville Kentucky Congregation Of Jehovah's Witnesses PO Box 788 Benton KY 42025 July 15, 2002 William H Bowen P.O. Box 311 Calvert City, KY 42029 Dear Brother Bowen: We corresponded with you an June 1, 2002 in an effort to set up a date to hold a judicial hearing with you. You informed us that you were not available on the date we selected. Therefore, we have made arrangements to hold the hearing on July 24,2002 at 7:00 P.M. at the following address: Kingdom Hall 86 Foust-Sledd Road Benton, Kentucky In accordance with the usual procedure, followed by Jehovah's Witnesses, when you meet with the judicial committee, no tape recordings will be allowed at the hearing, no attorneys may be present at the hearing, observers are not permitted at the hearing, and due respect must be accorded to the elder who is chairing the meeting. Very truly yours, For Judicial Committee, Ronald Cary Fax: 270-338-5084 CC: L Rush Hunt, Attorney at Law

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:57:36
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REPOSTING --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 15:53:16 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Joe Anderson speaks out A. J. Anderson June 5, 2002 Christian Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses Service Department 2821 Route 22 Patterson, NY 12563-2237 Re: Letter of resignation Dear Brothers, This letter pertains to my wish to no longer serve as an elder in the Manchester, Tennessee Congregation. Knowing what I do about our organization's child molestation problem and other matters here in the Manchester Congregation, I find it difficult to keep serving as an elder. Undoubtedly, how we as elders handle allegations of molestation in our organization has troubled me for quite some time. I was pleased to note from J. R. Brown's February 7, 2002 letter to Dateline NBC that our organization would hear views and opinions from individuals within the framework of the congregation, so I take this time to ask that you resolve some of my differences of opinion according to Scriptural principals. Since I have been in close proximity to the child molestation issue because of my wife Barbara, I have come to know of hundreds of molestation cases mismanaged by elders. Without a doubt, many elders are incapable of correctly dealing with molestation allegations, but others followed verbal and written directions from headquarters that caused immeasurable sorrow and lifelong unhappiness to the victims and their families. Almost every day for the last several years, I've read accounts sent to my wife from victims describing their disagreeable encounters with elders and the Society, which, in effect, has punished them and protected their molesters. I know that Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole, plus those outside of our organization say that they hate child molesters even more than murderers, but whether they really do or not is shown by their feelings and actions. Inasmuch as child molestation is an act done in secret, and since we the elders and the Society compound this by keeping such acts committed within our group a secret, the Witnesses are under the illusion that our organization doesn't have a problem with molestation. Of course, each elder knows if there are any accused or confessed molesters within his congregation, but elders don't know if there are molesters in other congregations. Consequently, because elders are unable to gage the scope of this situation because of the secrecy, most think there isn't a problem. Now, due to media coverage of many distressing cases of molestation within our organization, many elders are very disturbed. Without question, I'm sure that you are also. Here's one example of why keeping molestation a secret from the congregation does not work: I'm personally acquainted with a woman who was divorced, and when her little girl was molested she went straight to the elders. They did not report the accused to the police, although Tennessee requires ministers to report child abuse. It took a sister in the congregation, who found out about the rape years later, to go to the police. This resulted in the molester being sentenced to eight years in prison. As far as I know, this man was previously accused of molesting three girls in another state and when he moved to Tennessee, the elders were notified of his past, yet they warned no one in the congregation as per the Society's instructions. Before he was arrested, he molested two girls in Tennessee. So who was right? The sister who reported him or the elders who kept the secret? In our congregation, one elder told the other elders that if anyone molested his child, he would call the police first and elders later. Are you aware of how many elders feel this way? I personally know that many elders feel that they really can do nothing to help in these cases. Yet you instruct that an accusation of molestation within the congregation be reported first to the elders. The October 8, 1993 Awake! states that child molesters want something else from their victims—“SILENCE.” Are we not sharers in guilt with the molester when we don't encourage victims to go to the authorities where they will get help? Wouldn't this be the Christian thing to do? Are we not sharers in guilt with a molester, who silences the victim with threats, when we silence members in the congregation with threats if they warn others? In the May 24, 2002 letter to all the congregations in the United States, you stated that “...even one abused child is one too many.” This same letter says, “At least since 1981, articles have been published in our journals..., with a view to educating Jehovah's people... on the need to protect children from child abuse.” How can you educate Jehovah's people by keeping such secrets? To be able to protect their children, Jehovah's Witnesses have a right to know as part of their education if there are any people within the congregation accused of molestation. Incidentally, it seems to me that if concerned people had not gone to the media about the child abuse problems in our organization, this subject would not have been addressed at the elder's school last year. It was obvious that there was a change of attitude by the statement made that “Child abuse is a crime.” Now elders no longer treat molestation as a sin like adultery or fornication, but as something far more serious, a crime. This was a welcome change. Recently, a woman who used to be a Witness told me, after she read an article in our local newspaper about Jehovah's Witnesses and allegations of child abuse, that she was molested by someone who attended the Manchester Congregation many years ago. I've known her family for over twenty-five years and remembered her as a young girl. The man she accused is a very good friend of mine for over thirty years. If I go to my friend with another elder confronting him and he denies the allegation, I'm in a dilemma because I want him not to be guilty. How can I provide justice when I'm partial? Of course, I could remove myself from this situation, but why should we even be put in a position to judge our brothers in such matters where it takes the wisdom of Solomon to sort it out. According to the October 8, 1993 Awake! it is improbable that a child who accuses a person of molestation is lying. However, I believe it is better to err in behalf of a child than the accused. But the question arises, why are we as elders even investigating this crime of child abuse? Can we as elders really identify a person as a molester when an accusation is made? Of course, something has to be done when accusations are made but can't be proved, but most Witnesses want to leave situations like this in Jehovah's hands. To me this is shifting responsibility. Our organization has guides to settle disputes and discover truth, but in the above case, if the accused denied the allegation, the investigation is over until someone else comes forward accusing the same person (something that happens infrequently). Since elders have been told that molestation is a crime, why can't our brothers go first to the authorities with an accusation and then inform the elders. We expect our brothers to go first to the authorities with an accusation of murder. Moreover, it is inconceivable to think elders would investigate an allegation of murder to determine guilt or innocence, so why would we investigate an allegation of child abuse to determine guilt or innocence? <SO TRUE!!!> This is just not our field of expertise. We are ministers of God, not police. The authorities and their child abuse experts sometimes make mistakes, but nothing like the mistake of just asking the accused “Did you do it?” and the reply is “No.” If there is not another witness to the act, consequently, all charges are dropped, the matter is closed, and the victim is warned not to talk about it or else. This brings me to the subject of victims having to provide another witness to his/her molestation. There are contradictions associated with this rule. In the past, Watchtower literature stated that two witnesses to each act must be provided before judicial action could be taken. Now there's something new: “...two persons as witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing can be deemed sufficient to take action.” Which is it? Also, just what kind of action is to be taken? Judicial action which could lead to disfellowshipping? Or investigative action leading to the determination of guilt and then reporting the allegation to the authorities? If our teachings mean we must meet the above criteria before we report to the authorities, as many elders think we do, I say, “NO!” We shouldn't invoke the two-witness rule when it comes to whether elders should report an accusation to authorities. In fact, let me reiterate, I believe that elders should not be investigating an accusation of child abuse before the authorities are called in. The flock is told that elders are loving, kind and sensitive. Yet, time and again, I have heard of extremely ignorant or worst behavior on the part of elders when involved in sexual abuse cases. For instance, a child in our circuit accused her grandfather of molestation. Her mother went to the police and the man (a brother) admitted his guilt. I was told that the case was handled satisfactorily by all concerned except when the mother was approached by the presiding overseer of the congregation and he said, “If it's any consolation to you, your daughter enjoyed the act!” <BG wants to STRANGLE that guy!> The mother left the organization because she couldn't handle the idea that this man was her spiritual shepherd! <who can blame her?/bg) Another case comes to mind: A sister told of being molested when she was eight years old. The man confessed, but one of the elders asked her then, “What kind of clothes were you wearing?” <BG is FUMING!> She was advised to make peace with the perpetrator, and her family was counseled to invite him over for a meal. <Arrrgggh!> It's obvious that a question and advice like this proves that elders are not qualified and shouldn't be involved. If I know of hundreds of cases like these, you must know of thousands. Children and women are very vulnerable in this male-dominated world, and this is true also in our organization. I have quoted James 1:27 many, many times and have heard it quoted from the platform an equal number of times. Of course, you well know this scripture where James said, “The form of worship that is clean and undefiled from the standpoint of our God and Father is this: to look after orphans and widows in their tribulation, and to keep oneself with out spot from the world.” Generally, we emphasized the end of this scripture and rarely analyzed the situation orphans and widows found themselves in when the husband and father died. Primarily they were without a protector, which made them extremely vulnerable. Although the situation has changed somewhat today, there still are many areas where orphans and widows need help and elders should give special care to their needs. And especially is this so with regard to those who are sexually abused. Who are their protectors, if not those who can be likened to spiritual fathers—the elders. God puts them under our care and yours too. <I am SO GLAD he discussed this!> Whatever it takes, we should go the extra mile to help abused ones. However, it appears that our organization will sacrifice a child to keep the person who denies an allegation of molestation. <Hurray for Joe!> In your letter to All Bodies of Elders, February 15, 2002, you instruct us to, “Never suggest to anyone that they should not report an allegation of child abuse to the police or other authorities.” Why should elders be put in a position to suggest or not to suggest reporting an allegation? The victim or caregivers and the rest of Jehovah's Witnesses should be informed by elders to always call the police if a crime has occurred, no buts or ifs about it. <Yeah, why is everything the WTS writes on this subject always in the NEGATIVE rather than the POSITIVE, i.e., "NEVER suggest to anyone that they should NOT report...," vs. "ALWAYS encourage them TO report..."> Also, in this same February 15, 2002 letter, you say, “If you are asked, make it clear that whether to report the matter to the authorities or not is a personal decision for each individual to make...” This is inaccurate information and illegal in seventeen states. In these seventeen reporting states, everybody is obligated to report even suspicion of child abuse. <Again, Hurray Joe for pointing that out!!!> In Tennessee this has been the law since 1972. In Kentucky the law is the same. And why would Kentucky resident, Bill Bowen, as seen on Dateline, be told by someone in the Legal Department to not report a case of molestation? What is the Society's Legal Department doing giving us wrong information such as the above? <Way to go, Joe!> In the January 1, 1997 Watchtower, a policy statement is found that a man known to have been a molester can not hold a position of authority within the congregation. This policy is certainly appreciated and shows your concern for protecting the flock. However, the word “known” appears to be a confusing problem. Who is he “known” to, the elders—is the determination of his guilt or innocence in their hands? What if the victim can't prove to the elders that he/she was molested because of being unable to produce another witness to the act, does this mean the accused remains in his position? I believe this is so because he is then “known” or considered by the elders to be not guilty. (He is then not “known” to be a molester.) Elders should never be given the power to determine who is to be a “known” molester or not because they are untrained and unqualified. This policy puts children in the congregation at risk and should be reevaluated. <Besides, the abuser is "known" by the victim to be a molester, so why hasn't THAT fact counted?> In your statement in the May 24, 2002 letter to all congregations you say, “We have long instructed elders to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities where it is required by law to do so...” <How cowardly and self-serving that statement was!!! Arggghhh!> Where God is concerned, if this is a crime, it's a crime everywhere. If wrong in one state, why not in others? Also, if it's wrong we should do the right thing whether the laws of the land require it or not. <DITTO!> Aren't we supposed to be morally better than the world? Do we not go an extra step or two because of conscience? Another point taken from the same statement as quoted above is this: You say, “We have long instructed elders to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities...” Where is it written as policy that elders are instructed to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities? Your statement as quoted above is a half-truth and misleads the reader. <SO TRUE! Yes, MISLEADING!> What is not understood is that elders have written instructions to call the Legal Department where they will be told that if their state requires a minister to report the allegation, they should report it. That's a far different matter than “...long instructed elders to report allegations of child abuse to the authorities...” <This letter is SO GOOD!> Another point I want to discuss with you is the recent disfellowshipping of my wife, Barbara. The scriptures used for disfellowshipping her are found in 1 Corinthians 5:1-12. The letter from L. Seely, presiding overseer of the Manchester Congregation, said that Barbara was disfellowshipped for causing divisions, not for committing any of the wicked acts Paul described in 1 Corinthians 5:1-12, i.e., gross wickedness, sexual immorality, etc. It was the Society's spokesman, J. R. Brown, who accused my wife of committing some unspecified “spiritual violations” or “sins” for which she was being called before a judicial committee. This most certainly blemished my wife's character before the whole world, especially since no proof was offered then or ever. <A lynch mob is what they are acting like!> It was the Watchtower Society that forced Barbara to go to the media about the judicial hearing convened by the local congregation at orders of the Watchtower's Legal Department. It is obvious that because she went to the media about the sexual abuse issue that she caused divisions among the flock. Why didn't J. R. Brown just say so instead of accusing her of “sins” and blacken her character? It was because headquarters knew there was absolutely no proof she caused divisions by propagating her views about child abuse before she went to the media. If Barbara was disfellowshipped because of causing divisions, the Apostle Paul should have been disfellowshipped for causing divisions among the flock because he publicized sensational sexual immorality in the Corinthian congregation. <Wow! Good point. I never thought of that!> Not only did he discuss with the Corinthian Congregation how he felt about the congregation hiding fornication in their midst, he recorded his accusations for millions of people to read in the Bible during the past 2,000 years. Why is it okay for Paul to have gone public revealing disgraceful conduct that was being condoned in the congregation, but when my wife goes public about the organization condoning and protecting immoral people by bad policies, she is punished? Moreover, wicked and immoral acts have been equated to her by applying 1 Cor. 5 as the reason for her disfellowshipping. I believe this to be unchristian. I also believe that disfellowshipping my wife violated the Apostle Paul's command to each one of us to work to keep the congregation clean no matter what the cost. Furthermore, disfellowshipping her for causing divisions because she publicly spoke out about uncleanness in our organization is a violation of the freedom of speech Christ brought us. Inasmuch as I cannot be guided by your polices on child molestation, it is difficult for me to remain an elder. I'm not expecting a response to this letter. If any changes in your policies occur, I'm sure they will appear in our publications. Thank you for considering this letter and I hope nothing less than the Christian thing will be done in behalf of the victims and those speaking out. Sincerely, A. J. Anderson XC: Manchester, TN Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
07:58:39
Comments
REPOSTING --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Thu, 18 Jul 2002 21:13:51 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Anderson Postpone's Hearing Barb Anderson has decided to postpone the hearing for two weeks. So the appeal hearing is off for this weekend. So pass it around for anyone who might be planning to make the trip. It is stressful to try to get ready for a meeting with a three day notice. So Anderson's attorney is going to ask for a postpone in the morning. That is the latest info. Regards, bill . From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:51:08 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Anderson Judicial Committee is back Well it appears the Watchtower is back at their executions. The appeal committee has demanded to meet with Barb Anderson at a Motel. After JR Brown besmirched her moral character by saying she was being disfellowshipped for “other sins” unrelated to the Dateline program, now three men want to meet her at a motel? Why not the Kingdom Hall? Is Anderson not worthy to walk into the building? Is this funny or what. Anderson is going to request the meet at her home instead. Now the question is, will the committee give in to fear of “woman” and refuse to meet? Or are they too consumed with this opportunity to “beat their sister” that they will meet at all costs. Would anyone like to appear as a character witness for what Barbara Anderson has done? If so please email me and I will be glad to let you know how to get there. I plan to be there on Barbara's behalf and I welcome anyone who would like to stand with her husband and I in her behalf. Regards, bill
July 15, 2002 Mrs. Barbara J. Anderson 1527 Normandy Rd. Normandy, TN Dear Sister Anderson; On June 5 2002, we corresponded with you in response to your letter of May 30, 2002 in which you appeal the decision made by a judicial committee from the Manchester congregation. A meeting was arranged to hear the appeal. However, we were informed that you could not be at the scheduled meeting due to the short notification period. We are please to arrange another meeting in accordance with your request. Meeting has been set for 3:00 pm Sunday, July 21, 2002 at the following address; Ramada Inn, 2314 Hillsboro Blvd„ Manchester, TN. R. E. Matthews Chairman appeal committee (931) 424-9303 cc; Jerre Michael Hood, esq.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:00:44
Comments
Please read the first two chapters of 'Babylon the Great has fallen-God's Kingdom rules' cicu 1963. This highlights the root cause of the problem in Witnessworld and indeed the rest of the world. It would seem from personal experience of surviving abuse as a witness, along with others, that masonic Satanism is the problem. Or as they see it, Lucifer is right! The murders, sexual abuse and every other crime committed in the name of God is their way of undermining faith on this earth. They think they are untouchable, try exposing masonic hierarchy and see. Jesus talked of them in Matthew 13. He will destroy their empire as 2nd Thessalonians 2 states. See 'man of Lawlessness' in the Insight book re 'composite man' i.e. not Babylon as such (a woman)but 'mystic Babylon' (a man). This class are identified as a Judas class. My personal thought is possibly ex-anointed. They know Gods purpose and having been seduced/corrupted by Satan seek to thwart Jehovah's plan. As if they ever could! Such is the ego, arrogance, vanity of fallen man. Very tragic. Somewhat like the fallen angels they have been duped by...'they got to believing the lie'. In what ever form that takes their fancy, communing with 'angels', 'aliens', sacrificing children, or people in wars, whatever. Unbelievable? Ephesians 6:12. Governments buy it, religion buys it, from Babylon down to today it's all about confusing the truth of Jehovah's will and purpose for humanity. Child abuse gives us an unfortunate glimpse into the nature of these fallen spirit creatures and as one elder told me re brothers who are masons 'They don't realize what it will do to their minds'. Obviously most masons have no idea of their origins or the purpose of their hierarchy either. A New World Order. Sound familiar? Where Hitler and whatever was controlling and manipulating him left off. Were the 'ovens' for Molech? The power of good over-ruled then as it will now. 2nd Peter 3:17,18. Isaiah 9:6,7. Isaiah 65:16,17,18. Rev 21:3-5. 1st Corinthians 13. Luke 10:18-24. Did it help to take the Nazi scientists to the US and Russia? Is this site true? http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm The best source for everyone to build or rebuild their faith primarily with the bible is in Bro' Russell's 7 volumes of 'Insight on the Scriptures'. After his tour of masonic halls sincerely giving them the truth, talks they were amazed at, he was soon 'got rid of'. He was not a mason or Knights Templar as those who would detract/poison you from the truth try to imply. Probably the masonic/KT hierarchy itself, they started tampering then. They need to wonder who is tampering with them? Ezekiel 28:13-26.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:01:46
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2002 16:53:53 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: My letter 7-18-02 Draffenville Body of Elders Ron Carey-chairman Dear brothers, This letter is to acknowledge your letter of July15, and your renewed interest in establishing a new judicial hearing. As you may recall my attorney sent you a letter on June 6, 2002 with clear and concise requests for information. In not answering the June 6, letter you canceled a second arranged meeting on June 28, which I readily agreed to, but you failed to confirm in anyway. Due to circumstances beyond my control I am unable to meet on July 24th. I will be happy to reschedule a date acceptable to all concerned. I noted with interest that Ron Cary from Central City has now been appointed to serve as chairman, has he moved to Draffenville? Does he represent the Draffenville Congregation for the Watchtower home office? This needs to be clarified as I am confused why Ron Cary would be involved as he lives over one and one half hours away from Draffenville. The reason for my concern in this regard is the stated instructions in the elder handbook “Pay Attention to Yourself and all the Flock” it makes this comment in that regard on page 109: “If a judicial committee is needed, elders who are present at the Kingdom Hall should determine which elders will serve on the committee and which one will be chairman. The elders will take into consideration which elders are best qualified to handle the particular type of case that has arisen. (km 9/77 pp. 5-6)” Why does Draffenville Congregation need an Assembly Overseer, Ron Cary, when they already have five elders on the “local” elder body? Did the local body of elders call Ron Cary and request him to make the long road trip from Central City? If so I would appreciate an explanation as to why this is needed or who requested Brother Cary. In the July 15, letter Ron mentioned that he wished to be treated with, “due respect...accorded to the elder who is chairing the meeting.” If find this noteworthy as a fellow elder I make the same request on my behalf. The question is, have I been treated with “due respect” since you brothers at the direction of home office have chosen to press these false allegations against me? To explain, let me share a few examples: Failing to appear or give notice for the first prearranged judicial hearing “in writing” when at great expense I was there in good faith to meet with the committee. Totally ignoring all questions asked since January of 2001 about serious actions committed against my good name in the congregation and local community. Attempting to arrange a judicial hearing with a twenty-four hour notice in an attempt to prevent my witnesses from appearing in my behalf. Attempting to arrange a judicial hearing on Wednesdays in an attempt to impede my witnesses from appearing on my behalf. Failing to appear for a second judicial hearing that my attorney notified you in writing that I was willing to appear for, but once again you failed to confirm or communicate in anyway. Harassing my family and myself, by trespassing on my property, making harassing phone calls, sending correspondence, after repeated requests for all communication to go only to my attorney. In the handbook you use to decide these matters a comment is made in this regard on page 107: “They must treat every person with impartiality at all times and desire that the spiritually ill become well again, since a failure in this regard is unjust and violates the law of love .I Tim. 5:21; Jas. 2:1-9; 5:14, 15; w77 3/1 pp. 146-52”. By the actions committed to date by you and other representatives of Watchtower, have you treated me with “due respect” and given any hope of a “fair and impartial hearing”? How in any sense am I being made to feel that you want to make me “well again” if by your actions you show denial of basic human rights? According to our own guidebook it is described as “unjust and violates the law of love”. I would like a specific answer to that question. Now it appears you want to establish a new hearing with a third chairman officiating. Since you have failed to appear on two previous meetings that were arranged in writing, what reason do I have to believe you will appear for this one? Your actions to date have proven otherwise. Therefore due to the inconvenience you have caused my witnesses and myself by your gross negligence in these matters I must request the following in accordance with “due respect”: What are the charges against me, please be specific as I am unclear what this new hearing is about. For any hearing that you wish to arrange I will require at least a two week notice from the date I receive the letter so as to arrange my schedule to be able to meet. I request than you not set the meeting for any weekday as this imposes a hardship for my witnesses to be able to appear in my behalf. Therefore I request a Saturday or Sunday meeting only. As you are aware the “Flock” book on page 110 states: “Suitable arrangements should be made as to the time and place of the hearing.” Would that not mean arrangements that are kind to the accused and his witnesses? I request that the meeting be arranged on a time table after “noon.” I request that you use no recording devices in the course of the hearing. I request that no attorneys may be present in your behalf or Watchtower. I request a basic committee of three with no observers present. According to the “Flock” book on page 109 it makes this statement: “In a complex case, a judicial committee need not be limited to three members; it may warrant having four or even five experienced elders serve.” As this is a simple case of false allegations it would not appear to be to complex for three elders to handle. If you plan to have more than three elders present, I wish to be informed in advance and the basis for that decision. If you fail to do this and upon my arrival, there are more than three on the committee, I will certainly consider that a lack of “due respect” for not informing me ahead of time what to expect. My witnesses have asked that I act as an agent on their behalf, therefore I request a check in the amount of $2, 945.25 to be sent to silentlambs to assist with travel expenses for my witnesses to return for the new hearing to bear testimony in my behalf. I request that ALL COMMUNICATION go through my attorney. It is no doubt at the advice of Watchtower Legal you have chosen to ignore my repeated demands in this regard, but regardless you must STOP HARASSING me. If you do not I will be forced to look to “Caesar” for redress in this regard. I am saddened to have to make the above requests but your actions have had the affect of “beating your brothers” by harassing my family, arranging judicial meetings which are stressful to face, and not making appearance, inconveniencing survivors of abuse who traveled great distances to meet with you and provide testimony. In his February 7, 2002 letter to Richard Greenberg of Dateline, JR Brown made this statement: “We therefore do not view them as adversaries, but as individuals whose views and opinions should be heard within the framework of the congregation, or church, and not in front of a nationwide television audience. Our Governing Body is willing to resolve differences of opinion within the framework of the congregation and according to scriptural principles.” So is this the way “our Governing Body resolves differences of opinion”? They send out-of- town elders to establish a judicial committee with false allegations and disfellowship all who appeared on the program? Does this not confirm exactly the allegation I have made since day one, that is, when victims of abuse speak up they are silenced with the threat of disfellowshipping? Is it not the cowardly course to disfellowship brothers and sisters in back rooms rather than face legitimate allegations in a public forum? It seems “our Governing Body” is perfectly willing to authorize JR Brown of Watchtower Public Information to slander those who appeared on Dateline by stating they were being disfellowshipped for “other sins” not related to speaking out on child abuse to nationwide newspapers. Could it be that “our Governing Body” lied to JR Brown and Richard Greenberg? Could they be lying to you? I know the questions above are troubling as they have troubled me greatly over the course of the last year. It is for that reason I have requested to have a meeting with the Governing Body “within the framework of the congregation and according to scriptural principles” on September 27th of this year. Since they and the Service Committee are well aware of my request to meet with them in a FED-Xed letter dated June 6, 2002, why are they authorizing you to have a judicial hearing? You might want to ask them that question. Would it not make better sense to resolve our differences at that time? On the other hand if you are aware of my meeting with the Governing Body, then I would welcome an explanation for the inconsistency of your actions. I realize you brothers are “caught in the middle” so to speak, but I would encourage you to think seriously about pressing this matter at this time. I am willing to meet and am traveling to Brooklyn, New York as an evidence of my sincerity in wanting these matters settled. I will be glad to meet with you, I simply request “due respect” as you have failed miserably in that regard up to this point. Think about these things brothers as many children will either benefit or suffer from the actions you choose to take. As the “Flock” book states: Elders called upon to care for this responsibility must exercise heavenly wisdom, have good judgment, and be impartial. (Deut. 1:13, 16-18) A sound knowledge of Jehovah's righteous laws and principles is necessary.(Ps. 19:7-11) They must weigh matters carefully, realizing that certain factors make situations differ from one another. Instead of looking for rigid rules for guidance, elders should think in terms of principles; judge each case on its own merits. Before handling a judicial case, elders should carefully review Units 5(a), 5(b), and 5(c). They may also need to do research in the Society's publications and recent correspondence from the Society to find information that may apply or be helpful. Elders can be confident that with accurate knowledge, with experience and discernment, and with the help of God's spirit, they can judge in righteousness, wisdom, and mercy. I encourage you brothers to consider these matters carefully and make a decision that will benefit the flock. As fellow elders is that not what we are required to do? I await your quick response to this letter and send my warm Christian love. Very Truly Yours, William H. Bowen

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From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 11:52:50 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Abuse survivors Florida I currently have a report4er who is looking to do a story and JW's and abuse in Florida. If you would like to be interviewed or know someone that would let me know. Regards, bill

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From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 01:50:08 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Scottish Press CHURCH AT CENTRE OF PAEDOPHILE ALLEGATIONS http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=62692&command=displayContent&sourceNode=62244&contentPK=2125157 <http://www.thisisnorthscotland.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=62692&amp;command=displayContent&amp;sourceNode=62244&amp;contentPK=2125157> CLAIRE STEWART 09:00 - 15 July 2002 The Jehovah's Witness Church in Scotland has vehemently denied allegations that it shelters Pedophiles. A Panorama programme screened last night on BBC TV claimed the church had records of known Pedophiles within the faith that it refused to share with police. The programme profiled an Ayrshire teenager who allegedly told elders at her church she was being abused by her father. She claimed to have been told not to go to police, despite the fact that the man had already confessed to elders that he had abused her. A spokesman for the British branch of Jehovah's Witnesses condemned pedophilia as "abhorrent" and stated the programme had failed to examine cases in which the church had approached the police. The investigative programme claimed that the Watch Tower Society kept a worldwide database of members accused of child abuse. The list, which is claimed to contain more than 20,000 names, is based on details held by each Jehovah's Witness congregation and has many names that have never been reported to police. Panorama claimed a code of silence existed within the faith based on Biblical teachings that members should turn to elders and not the police, and that members believed a crime had not taken place unless two members of the faith could give evidence of it. Spokesman Paul Gilles yesterday denied that any Jehovah's Witness congregation would shelter a PAEDOPHILE from the police. "Sexual abuse of children is not just a terrible sin but also a crime that can leave lasting emotional scars on its victims," he said. "Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere abhor the sexual abuse of children and will not protect any perpetrator of such repugnant acts from the consequences of his gross sin." Explaining why the church had chosen to snub the programme, Mr Gilles said: "We decided not to take part for two reasons. "One is Jehovah's Witnesses are featured in the programme. We follow the Bible in everything we do and the way to resolve difficulties between spiritual brothers and sisters is not in the public. "Our views are based on deeply held convictions which can't be expressed just in a few sound bytes which might be edited. That's why we have chosen to address the allegations on our own website so we can give detailed answers in context." However, the church did provide the programme with information on its policies towards child abuse. Mr Gilles, speaking before the programme was aired, said he did not expect it to give an even-handed view. "I don't expect it to be a balanced programme from what I have seen so far," he said. "They have highlighted cases which could have been handled better. We told them we can't discuss specific cases. "They have trawled newspapers to find cases where things had gone wrong, but they didn't trawl newspapers to find cases where we had gone to the police." The spokesman did accept there were cases of child abuse within the faith that could have been dealt with better and expressed regret at them. Explaining the Jehovah's Witness process for reporting such matters, Mr Gilles said: "When a report is received, elders contact our national office in London for guidance to ensure that, firstly, the alleged victim and other potential victims are protected from possible abuse, and secondly that counsel is given to report crime to the proper authorities and to comply with any additional legal requirements. "Jehovah's Witnesses further believe that it is the absolute right of the victim, his or her family or anyone else to report the matter to the authorities if they so choose. There are certainly no sanctions against any congregation member who reports an allegation of child abuse to the authorities." About 8,600 Jehovah's Witnesses made the trip to Perth yesterday for the final day of the Zealous Kingdom Proclaimers Convention. The conference attracted visitors from throughout the UK and as far afield as the US. Organizer Bill Reid said: "The people of Perth have responded very well to us being here, from taxi drivers right the way through."

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20 Jul 2002
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" Error always seeks the dark, while truth is enhanced by the light. Error never desires to be investigated. Light always courts a thorough and complete investigation." [Millions Now Living Will Never Die, on page 13 ] --- REPOST

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20 Jul 2002
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" For he that practices vile things hates the light and *does not come to the light, in order that his works may hot be reproved.* But he that does what is true *comes to the light* IN ORDER THAT HIS WORKS MAY BE MADE MANIFEST AS HAVING BEEN WORKED IN HARMONY WITH GOD." [John 3:20-21] --- REPOST

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20 Jul 2002
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Mrs J of Cambridge, England wrote at the Guest Forum at the BBC Panorama Site after the JW story aired: --- "...Our elders are not representatives of God... they are labeled as servants and nothing more." --- MY REPLY: See the August 1, 2002, Watchtower, page 13: "REPRESENTING THE ROYAL PRIESTHOOD are appointed elders... " --- Mrs. J also wrote: " ...ELDERS ARE NOT POLICEMEN. They are men that give advice from the Bible, you can do whatever you want with it." --- MY REPLY: See the August 1, 2002, Watchtower, page 13: "...the elders also MUST HATE ANYTHING that resembles PARTIALITY IN JUDGMENT... (and) RATHER THAN CHALLENGE THEIR AUTHORITY, we truly appreciate our hardworking elders." --- Not Challenge their Authority? Representatives of the ROYAL Priesthood? Almost sounds like (spiritual) policemen to me./SLC

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20 Jul 2002
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(The JW story was in Dave Letterman's monolog Monday 7/15 and Tuesday 7/16): --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 01:29:14 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: WE made David Letterman! --- Tonight, in his monolog, David Letterman made a quip about the abuse scandal affecting the Watchtower-led organization. -- "I sure hope this turns out to be false, because otherwise, people would start avoiding Jehovah's Witnesses. We wouldn't want that to happen." --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Tue, 16 Jul 2002 23:39:20 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Letterman did it again --- Aren't you tired of all the sex scandals in religion? The Jehovah's Witnesses are having a big sex scandal, it has gotten so bad when they come to your door first they grope you, then they hand you a pamphlet. -- The Jehovah's Witnesses sex scandal started its first day in court today, when they knocked on the door of the courthouse, nobody answered the door.

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20 Jul 2002
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08:15:35
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LISTEN to PANORAMA pre-show newscast here: Jehovah's Witnesses and child abuse The Jehovah's witnesses are the latest in a succession of religious groups to come under attack for the way they have responded to allegations of child sex abuse within their ranks. A Panorama investigation to be shown on BBC1 tonight (Sunday) reveals that a number of legal actions against the organization are underway in America, but the problem is not confined to that country. Report by Panorama's Shabnam Grewal. Listen here <http://www.bbc.co.uk/religion/realmedia/sunday/s20020714g.ram> (7m 21s)

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20 Jul 2002
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WATCH THE ENTIRE Panorama show here --- Suffer The Little Children --- With the Catholic Church still reeling from revelations that it kept child abuse quiet, Panorama investigates a world-wide religion that stands accused of shielding abusers: the Jehovah's Witnesses. View the video of the entire program here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/newsid_2114000/2114320.stm Suffer The Little Children Watch the programme on Sunday 14 July at 22:15 BST, on BBC One or from this page. With the Catholic Church still reeling from revelations that it kept child abuse quiet, Panorama investigates a world-wide religion that stands accused of shielding abusers: the Jehovah's Witnesses. The programme tells the harrowing stories of children put at risk by the Watchtower Society's bible-based policies and unearths evidence of a database of members suspected of child abuse - many of whom have never been reported to the police. The organization claims to monitor the men accused of raping and molesting children but now faces allegations that it covers up crime and pressurises victims not to go to the police. Panorama takes its evidence to the heart of the organization and reveals the damage caused by the silent witnesses. Production Team: Reporter: Betsan Powys Producer: Murdoch Rodgers Assistant Producer: Shabnam Grewal Editor: Mike Robinson

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20 Jul 2002
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08:17:32
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WATCH the AFTER-PANORAMA QUESTION & ANSWER SHOW HERE --- The Jehovah's Witnesses are accused of having a "child protection policy" that protects Pedophiles. You can ask our panel about the organization, its policies and how child abuse should be dealt with in a live forum on Monday 15 July at 14:00 BST, to be shown on this page and on Digital Satellite television. http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/audiovideo/programmes/panorama/live_forums/newsid_2124000/2124808.stm When child abuse is suspected within a congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, "elders" in the church have a "child protection policy" to follow. This involves reporting the matter to the church's own legal desk - but not necessarily to the police. The organization's strict biblical interpretation means not only that the matter often remains a secret within the organization, but also that victims can be sent back home to the abusive relationship which they have complained of. A former elder, Bill Bowen, has spoken out to Panorama about these policies. He's now leading a campaign to change the church's attitude to child abuse within its ranks. And we speak to victims caught up in this controversy from around the world. E-mail us your questions for our panel to answer.

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Date:
20 Jul 2002
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08:19:36
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From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 14:23:52 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: NOTE HIGHLIGHTED CHANGES BRITISH LETTER WATCH TOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY OF PENNSYLVANIA THE RIDGEWAY LONDON NW7 1RN ENGLAND TELEPHONE 020 8906 2211 July 14, 2002 TO ALL CONGREGATIONS IN THE UNITED KINGDOM Dear Brothers: At Psalm 144:15 we read: "Happy is the people whose God is Jehovah!" We see the truthfulness of this inspired statement when we associate with our brothers and sisters at conventions, assemblies, and congregation meetings. We enjoy a warm atmosphere of peace while we benefit from fine spiritual encouragement from Jehovah and his organization. (Psalm 29:11) What a contrast to those of the world who lack true spiritual guidance and a solid hope for the future! --Isaiah 65:13. What enables us to maintain our happy spirit? For one thing, we fear Jehovah and we deeply respect the admonition in His Word, including what the Bible says on sexual matters. (1 Corinthians 6:9,10; Hebrews 13:4) At first, it was not easy for some of us to bring our lives into harmony with Jehovah's elevated standards. We had to make significant changes in our lifestyle before we could qualify for membership in Jehovah's clean, spirit-directed organization. Was it worth the effort? Absolutely! How happy we are to be living in harmony with God's righteous requirements! In recent weeks, the press in this country has focused attention on the way accusations of child abuse are handled by various religious organizations. Such reports may cause some sincere individuals to ask about the procedures followed by Jehovah's Witnesses, Therefore, we believe that it will be beneficial to review with you our Bible-based position, so that you will "know how you ought to give an answer" to any who may inquire.-Colossians 4:6. Simply stated, we abhor the sexual abuse of children and will not protect any perpetrator of such repugnant acts from the consequences of his gross sin. (Romans 12:9) We expect the elders to investigate every allegation of child abuse. Even one abused child is one too many. However, in evaluating the evidence, they must bear in mind the Bible's clear direction: "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin ... At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Later, this requirement to consider testimony of two or three witnesses was confirmed by Jesus. (Matthew 18:16) Thus, although they investigate every allegation, the elders in not authorized by the Scriptures to take congregational action unless there is a confession or there are two credible wit-nesses, However, if two persons are witnesses to separate incidents of the same kind of wrongdoing, their testimony can be deemed sufficient to take action.--l Timothy 5:19, 24, 25. What if someone is a proven child molester? The article "Let Us Abhor What is Wicked!" published in the Jan 1st 1997 , issue of The Watchtower had this to say on page 29: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service." We take such decisive action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. (1 Timothy 3:2, 9, 10) Everyone in the organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiri-tually.2nd Corinthians 7: 1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4. Our position is that the secular authorities deal with crime while elders deal with sin. To avoid a miscarriage of justice elders must not interfere with, prevent, or impede any secular investigation into child abuse. They must ensure that secular laws are adhered to (Romans 13:1) To that end they are instructed to contact the legal dept at Bethel whenever they receive information from even one person who alleges that child abuse has occurred. When a report is received guidance is given by the legal dept to ensure that: 1. The alleged victim and other potential victims are protected from possible abuse. 2. The council is given to report crime to the proper authorities and to comply with any additional legal requirements. The elders know that it is the absolute right of the victim, his or her family or anyone else to report the matter to the authorities, if they so wish. (Galatians 6:5) At least since 1981, articles have been published in our journals, The Watchtower and Awake!, with a view to educating Jehovah's people and the public on the need to protect children from child abuse. Besides the above-quoted article, there was the article. "Help For the Victims of Incest," which appeared in the , Watchtower. Awake! has featured such articles as "Your Child is in Danger!" "How Can We Protect Our Children?" and "Prevention in the Home" (October 8, 1993) as well as "Child Molesting-Every Mother's Nightmare," in its Jan 22nd 1985 issue. We believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policy could be strengthened, we have not hesitated to follow through. At Kingdom Ministry Schools the elders receive ongoing reminders regarding this policy and related matters. And we continue to urge the elders to follow closely the procedures that we have established. The moral cleanness of the congregation continues to be of vital concern to the "faithful and discreet slave." (Matthew 24:45) As we keep applying Scriptural principles in our lives, our hap-pines will increase. We trust that these reminders will be helpful to you as you share the Kingdom hope with right-hearted ones. We have much to be grateful for in the way of spiritual refreshment as a result of attending the "Zealous Kingdom Proclaimers" District Conventions. What a happy prospect! Yes, there is no doubt about it: "Happy is the people whose God is Jehovah!"-Psalm 144:15. Your brothers, Watch Tower B. & T. Society of Pennsylvania

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Date:
20 Jul 2002
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From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 14 Jul 2002 18:24:45 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: WT Fax to BBC Below is the fax sent to Betsan Powys regarding non-answers to specific questions asked. As you will note the 23, 720 figure is denied in the USA. I never specifically stated it was a USA ONLY figure. It appears once again misinformation is being used to shade the facts of this matter along with other comments. I invite all to review and form your own conclusions. Regards, bill . Original via fax May 9, 2002 Betsan Powys BBC Panorama Dear Ms. Powys: This is in response to your fax of April 30, 2002, in which you advise us that BBC-TV is preparing a program on the way Jehovah's Witnesses handle child abuse matters. You have kindly offered us the opportunity to be interviewed on-camera; however, we must respectfully decline. We are not opposed to giving interviews in general; however, it is likely that among those whose views will be expressed on your broadcast will be some persons who are Jehovah's Witnesses. In our view, it would be neither proper nor Scriptural for us to place ourselves in what might turn out to be an adversarial position with our Christian brothers and sisters in a public setting. (1 Corinthians 6:1-8; Ephesians 4:2) We trust that you will understand our position in this regard. Although unable to participate in an interview, we are certainly willing to comment on the questions that you raised in your fax. We note that these center almost exclusively on the nature of the records that we keep on alleged child abusers. You tell us that it is vital that we answer your questions on our record-keeping procedures because of the "very serious nature of the allegations made to the program," although you do not specify what the allegations are. First of all, however, please allow us to comment on the way that child abuse accusations are handled by Jehovah's Witnesses. We realize that you did not ask us to touch on this aspect; nevertheless, it is essential that we comment on it to provide an appropriate, frank answer. In the United States, when any one of Jehovah's Witnesses is accused of an act of child abuse, the local elders are expected to investigate. The procedure is as follows. Two elders meet separately with the accused and the accuser to see what each says on the matter. If the accused denies the charge, the two elders may arrange for him to have the opportunity to confront the accuser in their presence. If during that meeting the accused still denies the charges and there are no others who can substantiate them, the elders cannot take action within the congregation at that time. Why not? As a Bible-based organization, we must adhere to what the Scriptures say, namely, "No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin . . . at the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good." (Deuteronomy 19:15) Jesus reaffirmed this principle as recorded at Matthew 18:15-17. When the branch office receives an allegation of child abuse, a check of the records might reveal that similar, uncorroborated allegations were lodged against the same person in the past, perhaps when he was living in another part of the country. When a second credible allegation by a different person is lodged against the same individual, the elders are authorized by the Scriptures to handle the case. However, even if the elders cannot take congregational action, they are expected to report the allegation to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses in their country, if local privacy laws permit. Again, privacy laws permitting, a record is made at the branch office that the individual has been accused of child abuse. Each branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses keeps its own records, if that is allowed by local jurisdiction. In the United States we do not have records of child abusers who live in other lands. If privacy laws do not allow such records to be kept, the elders do whatever is permitted within the law to see to it that children are protected. The aim is Betsan Powys May 9, 2002 Page 2 to balance the right to privacy of the individual with the overriding need to protect the safety of children. 1 Timothy 5:19. In addition to making a report to the branch office of Jehovah's Witnesses, the elders may be required by law to report even uncorroborated or unsubstantiated allegations to the authorities. If so, we expect the elders to comply. (emphasis added by me/not by the author or SL). Additionally, the victim may wish to report the matter to the authorities, and it is his or her absolute right to do so. In the United States, reporting requirements vary from state to state. It can be quite a challenge to keep abreast of the reporting requirements, but our Legal Department makes every effort to do so. If, when confronted, the accused confesses that he is guilty of child abuse, the elders take appropriate action. If he is not repentant, he will not be permitted to remain a member of the congregation. Even if he is repentant--is cut to the heart, and is thus resolutely determined to avoid such conduct in the future--what was stated in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower applies. The article said: "For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer [full-time missionary of Jehovah's Witnesses] or serve in any other special, full-time service." (1 Timothy 3:2, 7-10) We take such action because we are concerned with maintaining Bible standards and protecting our children. Everyone in our organization is expected to meet the same requirements, namely, to be clean physically, mentally, morally, and spiritually. 2 Corinthians 7:1; Ephesians 4:17-19; 1 Thessalonians 2:4. In a few instances, individuals guilty of an act of child abuse have been appointed to positions within the congregation if their conduct has been otherwise exemplary for decades. All of the circumstances would need to be considered carefully. Suppose, for example, that a long time ago a 16-year-old boy had sexual relations with a consenting 15-year-old girl. Depending upon the U.S. jurisdictions where he lived when this happened, elders are required to report this as an incident of child abuse. Let us say that twenty years have passed. The child abuse reporting law may have changed; he may even have married the girl! Both have been living exemplary lives and they are respected. In such a rare case, the man could possibly be appointed to a responsible position within the congregation. (emphasis added by me, not the author or SL). Our procedures have been refined over time. Our policy over the past several years has been that at least twenty years must have passed before an individual who committed an act of child abuse could even be considered for appointment to a responsible position in the congregation, if ever. The Bible teaches that individuals can repent of their sins and "turn to God by doing works that befit repentance," and we accept what the Bible says. (Acts 26:20) Still, the safety of our children is of the utmost importance, so we realize that the local elders must be very careful when recommending individuals who may have been guilty of an act of child abuse in the distant past. (emphasis added). You have been told that here in the United States we have compiled a list of 23,720 names of child abusers. That is false. First of all, the total number of names in our records is considerably lower than that. In addition, it is not meaningful to focus on the number of names we have in our records. This is because our figures include the names of many persons who have only been Betsan Powys May 9, 2002 Page 3 accused of child abuse whereas the charges have not been substantiated. (My comment: How can charges ever be substantiated if victims are not ENCOURAGED to get the police involved?) We keep these records to document our compliance with what the law requires in many U.S. jurisdictions. Also included on our list are allegations made on the basis of so-called "repressed memories," the validity of which many authorities challenge. Then there are the names of persons who have been accused of abusing children before becoming Jehovah's Witnesses as well as individuals who have never been baptized Witnesses but whose names we are obliged to keep because of their association with the Witnesses. (An example of this would be a non-Witness father or step-father who is accused by his Witness children or stepchildren of abusing them.) To be safe, we also list the names of persons who may or may not be considered as child abusers, depending upon the jurisdiction where they live (for example, that 16-year-old boy who had sexual relations with the consenting 15-year-old girl). The name of an individual who was guilty of voyeurism or involved with child pornography, as further examples, would also be included on the list. And, to be sure, the list also includes names of persons who are actually guilty of child abuse. We do not apologize for keeping such records here in the United States. Apart from being legally needed, they have been very helpful to us in our efforts to protect the flock from harm. (Isaiah 32:2) Christian parents can rightly feel secure in the knowledge that such efforts are made to screen out possible child abusers from appointment to responsible positions within the congregation. (My comment: Who CARES about responsible positions? We care that they are in the cong, period!) Ms. Powys, please do not conclude that we believe that our system is perfect. No human organization is perfect. But we do believe that we have a strong, Bible-based policy on child abuse. Anyone in a responsible position who is guilty of child abuse would be removed from his responsibilities without hesitation. (My comment: Again, why do they harp on having positions? THAT IS NOT THE POINT!) We certainly would not knowingly transfer him to serve elsewhere. Child abuse is abhorrent to us. Even one abused child is one too many. At least since 1981, our journals, The Watchtower and Awake!, have featured articles to educate both Witnesses and the public regarding the importance and need to protect children from child abuse. Among others, there was the article "Let Us Abhor What Is Wicked!" published in the January 1, 1997, issue of The Watchtower; "Help For the Victims of Incest" in the October 1, 1983, Watchtower; "Your Child Is in Danger!", "How Can We Protect Our Children?", and "Prevention in the Home," all in the October 8, 1993, Awake!, as well as "Child Molesting Every Mothers Nightmare" in the January 22, 1985, Awake! (My comment: Again, why are they leaving out the ENTIRE Awake! of 10/8/91, "Healing the Wounds of Child Abuse," which the front cover was about child abuse, as were pages 3-11 of the mag.) Over the years, as we have noted areas where our policies could be strengthened, we have followed through. We are continuing to refine them. We trust that you will find the information in this letter to be helpful. As you will note, we have responded to the broad issues you raise rather than providing specific answers to your detailed list of questions. We note that you sent a similar list of questions to our offices in London. We understand they are answering your questions in accordance with their procedures and adherence to British law. With every good wish, I am, Very truly yours,

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:21:49
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From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sat, 13 Jul 2002 23:06:57 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: run wt run http://www.sundayherald.com/26260 Jehovah's Witnesses accused of building 'PAEDOPHILE paradise' Scottish branch of world church alleged to have sheltered abusers and kept information from police By Torcuil Crichton The Jehovah's Witnesses Church in Scotland stands accused of sheltering child abusers and keeping secret files of known Pedophiles within the organization which it refuses to share with police. After a successful prosecution over child abuse within a Jehovah's Witnesses family in Ayrshire, Scottish police are understood to be preparing to bring a further case to court in the northeast. The Jehovah's Witnesses church, which has six million members around the world, has been convulsed by revelations that its elders have protected sex offenders, failed to report accusations to the police and even punished children and families making accusations. The Watch Tower, the church's worldwide head quarters in Brooklyn, is struggling to regain its battered authority after a string of child abuse cases stretching from the US to Scotland. An investigation by the BBC's Panorama programme has discovered that the Watch Tower Society keeps a worldwide database of members accused of child abuse. The list, which is claimed to contain more than 20,000 names, is based on details held by each Jehovah's Witnesses congregation and many of the names on that list have never been reported to the police. Allegations of child abuse within the church first emerged in Scotland in the quiet seaside town of Stevenson in Ayrshire when 19-year-old Alison Cousins went to the police after being branded a liar by church elders to whom she had turned for help. Cousins, who was brought up in the Jehovah's Witnesses, went to her church elders three years ago with the shocking allegation that her father, a respected member of the congregation, had been sexually abusing her. Cousins, who followed the strict church rules that any allegations of wrongdoing must be dealt with within the congregation, broke down as she told her story to the men who dispensed moral guidance to the flock. In return she was told that she should do nothing. 'They told me that one of the scriptures in the Bible was that you should never take your brother to court,' Cousins told Panorama. 'And I said to them, 'Well what are you meant to do then if he's doing something wrong?' And they said, 'Come to us and we'll deal with it.'' The church law which dictates that members must turn to elders rather than the police also demands that there must be two witnesses to a crime before taking any action. The biblical citation for this is found in Deuteronomy 19:15: 'No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin. At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good.' In instances of child abuse, where there are no witnesses other than the child involved, critics of the church say the guide lines amount to a 'PAEDOPHILE paradise'. Eventually, because she didn't have corroborating witness statements for the elders, Cousins went to the police last year and as their investigation began, she made a shocking discovery. Church elders had known for three years that her father had been abusing her older sister, that he had confessed to the church but that no action had been taken. Her father, Ian Cousins, who has since been prosecuted and sentenced to five years in jail, had merely been reprimanded by the elders and sent home where his abuse simply shifted from one sister to the other. The way Cousins's case was dealt with by the church is not an isolated incident. The Jehovah's Witnesses are now reeling from a series of scandals worldwide and allegations that its self-styled Child Protection Policy does nothing but protect abusers and fails to ensure allegations of abuse are reported to the authorities. According to its critics, child abusers within the organization are protected by its strict biblical laws and the threat that any member disregarding the advice of elders by going to the police faces the prospect of being denounced and cast out of the congregation. The organization insists that it has a strict child protection policy and defends the database of self-confessed offenders as part of its strategy of dealing with abuse without referring to the judicial system. The church keeps the existence of the list a closely guarded secret. Watch Tower states that it uses the list to monitor the activities of the men who stand accused of raping and molesting children. But former members of the church claim that keeping the list secret effectively shields abusers and allows abuse to continue. In the American Bible belt of Kentucky, Bill Bowen, who has spent his lifetime as a Jehovah's Witness and more than 20 years as an elder, claims the organization covers up abuse by keeping this database secret. According to Bowen, who has become a thorn in the flesh of the organization, his sources inside Watch Tower indicate there are 23,720 abusers on the secret list -- who are protected by the system. 'Every detail is written down about what happened ,' said Bowen. ' If this man moves anywhere, then if any allegation surfaces again, this is the way they monitor these people.' The church in the UK and the US refuses to discuss the list or its details with anyone not personally involved in a case. It was that wall of anonymity that allowed Cousins's father to remain at home and unchecked with his daughters at risk. Bowen began his campaign to expose the church after having to handle an abuse case in his own congregation and becoming disturbed by the pressure it puts on the victim. 'When an allegation of abuse happens, parents are required to go to the elders first,' said Bowen. ' If the abuser denies the charge, they will turn back to the child and say, 'Do you have two eye witnesses to what happened?' That means the child and one other witness .' According to Bowen, if there is not a basis to establish the allegation with two witnesses, the pressure is then turned on the accuser. If there is no corroborating evidence, the members making the allegations are warned not to repeat them against an 'innocent' or cause division in the church on pain of being 'disfellowshipped' -- effective lifetime exile. 'They're told if they don't obey these elders that God will kill them, and how God kills them is that when you're disfellowshipped, you're viewed as being dead,' said Bowen. 'It's like the biblical edict of stoning. Your own mother and father will not acknowledge you in public. Your own children will not speak to you. 'And they have a choice, they can be silent and retain their family and every friend they've known for the last 40 years, or, if they speak out, they will lose all that overnight.' The wall of silence around abuse cases and the stipulation that there must be two witnesses before any action is taken has prevented thousands of prosecutions, according to US police. Jack Zeller, a US police officer who dealt with several child abuse cases sees the irony. 'Unfortunately, most kids don't have several witnesses observing them get raped,' he said. The same levels of obstruction and unco-operativeness have been encountered by police in the UK tackling allegations of child abuse within the church. Police investigations into allegations of sexual abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses community in Birmingham were frustrated for a long time by elders in the church. Steve Colley, an investigating officer with West Midlands police, was shocked by the determination of elders not to co-operate with his inquiries into allegations of abuse in a Birmingham congregation. 'I was surprised,' said Colley. 'They actually said to me unless I could provide two Jehovah's Witnesses who'd actually seen the offence, then as far as they were concerned the offence hadn't taken place.' Despite this, each congregation keeps copious records regarding any spiritual infraction or wrongdoing committed within the church. Records of Ian Cousins's abuse of his eldest daughter were lodged but were only obtained by Cousins under data protection legislation. The papers show that the Jehovah's Witnesses in Ayrshire and in the organization's headquarters knew for three years before she asked them for help that her father was a self- confessed PAEDOPHILE. Instead of enabling elders to monitor him, the records showed they twice turned a blind eye to his abuse of his daughters. 'It is a PAEDOPHILE paradise created by Jehovah's Witnesses,' said Bill Bowen. 'An abuser can go into any congregation, remain anonymous, have access to more children through activities in the church, and all he has to do is just keep denying it and he will have the confidentiality clause in Watch Tower policy to enable him to continue .' Panorama's Suffer Little Children is on BBC1 tonight at 10.15pm

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:40:03
Comments
Thanks for the quick reply, Mr. webmaster@antijehovahswitness.com! --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:40:42
Comments
Can you guys believe we got a SPAMMER posting here? See the "work at home" offer above. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:42:34
Comments
WELCOME ALLISON COUSINS!!!! Thank you for your courage and bravery to appear on the Panorama show and tell your story! This cover-up of sex crimes was a blistering boil that needed to be popped wide open so the Toxins could come out in view of everyone. You have done a WONDERFUL THING and we THANK YOU. Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:43:34
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UK SEEKS INVESTIGATION OF WTS (REPOST) --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Wed, 17 Jul 2002 15:15:00 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: UK Press release --- Helen Clark Member of Parliament for Peterborough --- FOR IMMEDIATE USE 15.07.02 --- HOUSE OF COMMONS --- London SW1A 0AA --- Press Release --- JEHOVAH'S WITNESS CHILD SEX ABUSE --- MP CALLS FOR INQUIRY --- Helen Clark MP has tabled an Early Day Motion in the House of Commons calling for an immediate inquiry into the allegations of child sexual abuse amongst members of Jehovah's Witness congregations. This follows the BBC Panorama expose of past and present cases, which have never been adequately investigated due to the organization's policy of requiring two witnesses to an alleged offence. Mrs Clarke has been pursuing the matter for nearly two years since been contacted by a constituent, himself a victim as a child, but three successive Ministers have refused to take any action. --- "Panorama contacted me when they were preparing this programme and I was able to put them in touch with my constituent and the police who were also aware of the allegations" said Mrs Clarke "I'm delighted that the matter is at last receiving the public scrutiny it deserves, having written on a number of occasions to the Home Office without success. In my opinion, Government Ministers have all been too anxious not to offend a religious minority group and therefore too ready to accept outward assurances that the proper procedures were in effect. The Children of members of Jehovah's Witnesses must be afforded the same protection against sexual abuse as any other children in our society. I hope this EDM will receive sufficient support to put additional pressure on the Government to take action. I would be very surprised if I am the only Member of Parliament to have been approached on these issues. --- ENDS --- Text of EDM --- EARLY DAY MOTION --- JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES AND CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE --- That this house congratulates the BBC on its showing of the Panorama programme, which exposes the lack of an appropriate child protection policy amongst Jehovah's Witnesses, since it is the organization's policy to consider congregation members accused of child sexual abuse innocent unless there are two witnesses, even in the case of listed Pedophiles; notes that previous attempts on the part of victims of this abuse to obtain official recognition of the issues involved have been unsuccessful and calls upon the Government to institute an immediate enquiry into the circumstances of past and present cases of such abuse. --- CONTACTS: Mrs Helen Clark MP 020 7219 6062 --- . Helen Clark Member of Parliament for Peterborough --- HRC/IAJM 15th July, 2002 --- HOUSE OF COMMONS --- London SW1A 0AA --- Mr. Hilary Benn , M.P., Parliamentary Under Secretary of State, Home Office. --- Dear Hillary, --- Jehovah's Witnesses --- Thank you for your letter of 26 June, which I have already forwarded to my constituent Mr. XXXXXX. --- However, last night's "Panorama" programme on this subject showed that this is an extremely serious problem. From my own correspondence with your office, it seems to be one which successive Ministers have not fully addressed. It appears to have been preferable to simply accept the guidelines, issued by the Jehovah's Witnesses, as read. --- Mr. XXXXX particularly mentions that the "Letters to Elders" sent from the headquarters of the Jehovah's Witnesses are normally kept under lock and key, so that ordinary members do not see them. He asked why this process is so secretive. --- The spokesman from headquarters (in the United States) said on the programme that the Witnesses had their own register of Pedophiles -- with 23,720 names on it (in Europe, Canada and the U. S.). As this is an international organization, their policy stems from the U.S.; they are a corporate body whose representatives in England are not independent. --- One of the police officers interviewed on the programme, Sgt. Steve Colley of the West Midlands Police, said of the Simon Brady case with which he had been involved, that it was "criminally negligent" that the Witnesses had not passed on details to the police when they first learned them. --- I should like you to know that I am today tabling an EDM on the subject (copy enclosed). I hope that you will Institute and urgent inquiry into this whole question. --- Yours Helen (signature)

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:46:28
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17 Jul 2002 Time: 21:28:08 Comments Cheerleader - your comments earlier today were fantastic obliterated (sp) the myth of two witnesses...logical, rational and backed by scripture!!!! You do your homework and I appreciate your posts. *** ( Bonnielynn, don't want to loose contact with you...I am going to go to hotmail, see if I can get an address and come back to post it. Then you can have my mailing address. Don't forget the library - Sandi from N.Mexico uses the library to post...your are too funny and we need your sense of humor - no one has made me laugh like you have for a long long time!+Tears and wet my pants laughing out loud is the best therapy. +++ AGAIN CHEERLEADER your posts were excellent on the subject and what more can anyone say? If people don't get it they must be blind, deaf and dumb, hear no evil, see no evil and hear no evil dumb. *** I would also like to say publicly that LORIS is very brave, has integrity and has risked her "good standing" with the WTS by writing a letter to the society and a letter to Newsweek which they published to support all of this - CLAP CLAP CLAP CLAP APPLAUSE PLEASE!!!! AND our prayers for her *** Love Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:47:19
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Contradictory messages in 8/1/02 WT re: SOCCER: <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=31467&site=3&page=1> Check out the August 1st issue and see the article "The Word of God Exerts Power", an experience from Jamaica which tells of a man named Cleveland who gave up a number of things to become one of JWs. Among the things he gave up was playing soccer: "Cleveland was deeply involved in his community's soccer team, and its games were interfering with his meeting attendance. What would he do? In spite of intense pressure from his teammates, coach, and friends, Cleveland decided to quit the soccer team. Yes, God's Word was beginning to exert power, influencing him for good!" So what "signal" does this give out? Why, that there is something 'un-Christian' about playing soccer and that a true Christian wouldn't do it. Right?... Wrong! Check out the article "Yoga - Just an Exercise or Something More?" in the same issue of The Watchtower! On page 22 it describes (and provides illustrations) of three activities approved for Christians. What are they? Walking, Gym workouts, and...guess what?...SOCCER! Are these guys confused, or what? It's true what Jesus said of those who lived by rules in his day, the Pharisees: "They bind up heavy loads and put them upon the shoulders of men, but they themselves are not willing to budge them with their finger." - Matt 23:4

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:47:47
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Remote User: Date: 18 Jul 2002 Time: 17:58:56 Comments To SLC, I enjoy your comments! Keep that whip crackin' & smokin'. WHEW, you go! In a nut shell, it really is that simple...Do we protect an organization or do we protect children? I'm glad you liked my comment. Bill, take a concealed recorder with you to the INQUISITION, I mean "judicial meeting". I for one would love to know how LOVING this process is! HA Someone in Texas

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:48:45
Comments
DAVID LETTERMAN comments on the JW sex abuse scandal in his monologues on Monday and Tuesday nights, July 15 and 16. To hear the monologues yourself, you can listen at Letterman's website here: <http://www.cbs.com/late night/late show/> and click on "Dave's Monolog" in the DAVE-TV box. --- If you want to tell Letterman thanks for helping to expose this non-funny issue to the public's attention, since a lot of people get their "news" from Dave and Jay rather than the nightly news, you can write Letterman here: <http://www.cbs.com/late night/late show/show_info/ls_show_info_pop_feedback.shtml> --- On Monday, Letterman said this: "Did you hear there's a big sex abuse scandal concerning Jehovah's Witnesses in Minnesota? (no response from audience so he asks again) Did you hear about that? (audience now groans, Nooooooooooo) Yeah, well, uh, I sure hope this isn't true... I really hope it is not true because, uh, we would really hate to see people START avoiding Jehovah's Witnesses... We wouldn't want THAT to happen." (laughter from audience). <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32252&site=3> --- Here is a summary of what Letterman said on Tuesday night: David lettermen just crushed the jws again in tonights monolog. He asked, "Are you tired of all the religious sex scandals? Now the Jehovah's Witnesses have a sex scandal. They group you then they leave you a pamphlet. Then they went to court today but no one answered the door." <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32348&page=1&site=3#425664> --- and --- For the second night in a row, David Letterman included a jab at the Witnesses in reference to their sex abuse scandal. Tonight in his monolog, he said (something like): "Those Jehovah's Witnesses, they're something else. First they grope you, then they leave you a pamphlet!" Then he mimicked a JW saying "Here" while handing you a piece of literature. <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32347&site=3>

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
08:49:55
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Remote User: Date: 18 Jul 2002 Time: 18:48:49 Comments WTG SLC!!! I haven't laughed so hard in so long! The one with the DUUUHHHHHHHH! In it was the clincher! Job well done! Now it's MY turn! LOL Good ‘ole Douglas Montgomery wrote = you would think Jehovah's Witnesses were synonymous with pedophilia. There are 6.5 million of us, would Panorama have been interested in any CHILD ABUSE CASES that HAVE BEEN dealt with responsibly? Any interest in the positive EXPERIENCES of the VAST MAJORITY of US? HUMMMM? You mean that there are even MORE cases that were handled right? Just how many cases does that make all together, the ones handled responsibly and the ones that were NOT HANDLED RESPONSIBLY? And, are you stating that the survivor of the ones NOT handled responsibly should just bow down, keep quiet and be grateful for the ones that were handled responsibly? If we all sat down to tea and tallied ALL the cases, just how many would there be?! Sir, were you a survivor of a case that was handled responsibly? As the lambs cheerleader put it so well DUUHHHHHHHHH! LOL And this little piggy went to town! BLM --- (Thanks BLM, but now I can't even remember what post you were referring to about the Duuuuhhhh! I vaguely remember! Did I keep a copy of it? :-/ /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
09:33:49
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While I was on the net I ran across this web site. It is comprehensive and well worded. I have had the opportunity to speak with many JW's. Thank you for all this information.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
09:55:14
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The facts stated are terrifing. Having had sexual molestation occur in my family, we are not JW, the anguish is horrible. It is hard enough when there is support. But when the victim is treated with such contempt, it makes them assaulted that many times over. It is apparent that the 'elders' are not concerned with the GOD's love, but are using the bible as a means to excuse their immoral conduct. It appears the 'elders' that know about the molesters conduct are themselves molesters, therefore they are each covering up for the other. The only way this can be fought is to go very public. 20/20, 60 Minutes, Oprah and all the rest of the docu shows. I know JW watch TV. Apparently the mothers and the victims are going to have to go public. You are going to need some kind of support group in place ready to aid these people. The support group is going to have to sound like JW, while changing some of the slavery mentality concepts. And be ready for verbal assault. The children need to be saved. The molester removed from the streets. When several cases go public, more of the victims will come forward. Courage like fear is contagious.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
10:02:15
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Thank you for bringing to everyone's attention the fact that so called Christians abuse - whether it is sexually, physically or mentally. I am not disfellowshipped or disassociated I left due to extensive beatings from my father. As one of six children the youngest two still at home, I worry for my siblings. My father is still a witness, the social services watch him when they can He flits from congregation to congregation so they can never keep up with him for long. I hope that one day the elders see him for what he is and also my mother as she could have removed us from the situation long ago. If anyone wants to email me to chat- please do. I have gotten thru this you can too. Ruth Bryers Dunfermline, Scotland. ruthcub01@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
12:17:01
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Congratulations. This site reveals the other side of the JW. The side they don´t show when they knock on doors... Continue the good work, to make the media talk about these crimes, and bring to court the Organization as an accomplice. Henrique Frazão - Portugal

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
13:24:59
Comments
http://preventchildabuse.org/ I didn't see this link on your Assistance page and thought you might like to add it.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
13:49:49
Comments
http://jwzone.org/ Daily Text for Saturday, July 20 In a mighty way the word of Jehovah kept growing and prevailing.-- Acts 19:20. Friday, July 19 | Sunday, July 21 The original Greek word that is translated "prevailing" conveys the idea of "exerting strength." The preceding verses relate that many in Ephesus became believers, and a number who practiced magical arts burned their books before everybody. Thus, God's word prevailed over false religious beliefs. The good news also prevailed over other obstacles, such as persecution. Nothing could stop it. In this we find a striking parallel to true Christianity in our time. The early Christians recognized that the success of their ministry did not depend on their efforts alone. They had a divine commission to carry on their work, and they had divine support to accomplish it. Spiritual growth comes from God. Acknowledging this, Paul wrote: "I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept making it grow. For we are God's fellow workers."--1 Cor. 3:6, 9. w 4/1/01 14, 15 Excerpt from "Examining the Scriptures Daily 2002". © 2001 WatchTower Bible & Tract Society of PA

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
14:11:34
Comments
Please believe me you I understand your anger having been abused many years ago. Yet I can't help but wonder if the (I'm going to use guns here only as metaphors for methods) shotgun blasts from this website will matter to the WB&TS. Methinks a rifle with a scope would work better at taking out pedophiles. Better yet would be many "Under Cover Brothers" equipped with hand guns with silencers. (Silence is not always a bad thing as in anonymity) If you need a "License to Kill" just ask yourself what would Jesus do? What do you think Jesus is going to do with all the perverts at Armageddon? Every one who has a healthy conscience will go to the proper secular authorities and allow these to use their God ordained sword to met out temporal punishment to the evil doers. But shot gun blasts a the JW Org juggernaut will do little but get yourselves...

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
14:32:37
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Thank-you for airing the Panorama on JWs and sexual abuse. My prayers are with all of those too frightened to speak out. I pray that you put your trust in God, not an organization. If you are unsure of what to do, ask yourself, What would Jesus do? He said that anyone who harmed a child (surly that includes those who turn a blind eye to the harm) have NO PLACE IN GODS KINGDOM. So speak out. Jehovah loves children. He would not want them to be harmed

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
14:33:27
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My e-mail is ellielarkin1@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
15:09:38
Comments
Taken from H2O Discussion Board -- Date Posted: 07/19/2002 04:24:43 PM

Hi Xxxxxxx: You said: "WHAT HAPPENED TO THE WATCHTOWER? ...Jehovah has allowed circumstances to develop that have heaped reproach upon his people and in turn upon his name. In ancient Israel when Jehovah allowed his name people to be disgraced to such an extent that reproach was brought upon his name as a result, it was because Israel had sinned greatly and Jehovah had withdrawn his support leaving them exposed to their enemies...This is what has happened today to the Watchtower!!...Why Jehovah has withdrawn his support from them is for them to determine."

< My reply: --- Xxxxxxx, I couldn't agree more with what you have said. But sadly, we don't see JWs trying to "determine" anything. No "outcry" from them because of the "lawlessness" practiced among them. Truly the "love of the greater number has cooled off" because of the "increase in lawlessness" from their leadership. In fact, with all of the bad press, still JWs don't have the faintest idea, not even a clue that something is wrong. So who is got the really bigger problem here, the greater problem -- The WTS or 6 million blind followers that will do anything they say without question. (Matthew 24:12) What I mean is this: Its one thing for the Watchtower Society, say 12 men on the Governing Body, get off the track. But entirely another when 6 million people from over 200 different lands and islands can't discern when twisted Watchtower Policy serves to harm and victimize defenseless children, while protecting the predator. And the brothers can't see the real issue, for the life of them. And that's with all of the bad press and they still can't see it. Instead they would call the Press all "liars", and mercilessly execute Bill Bowen's and associates for bringing this problem out to the light. And then they have the unmitigated gall, the nerve to feel that this is "Jehovah's will" to carry on this way?!? But didn't Jesus say, wicked "men will expel you from synagogues [Jehovah's House of worship in Jesus' time] and will even kill you and imagine he has rendered a sacred service to God"? Jesus said it. Does not this profile actually fit the Governing Body & Jehovah's Witnesses en mass today? And yet, its truly disgusting, pathetic I know...to really see it in action before your very eyes! People that call themselves "christian". Arrrgggghhh! (John 16:2)...But are they really "christian", I ask? And further, why do people act this way? Isn't it true, they act this way, because in their minds, the WTS must be right, at all cost. Always right, in all situations. Case closed. This is the way they think. And wasn't the Pharisees of Jesus' day, viewed the same way? Jesus said: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men's bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In that way you also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." (Matthew 23:27, 28)...Full of "hypocrisy and lawlessness"!...And that's what we see in the Governing Body and all of those who support them as JWs, high official and rank and file member...And if they are truly viewed that way before God, rest assured, they are not just "guilty" on child abuse, but guilty on many other acts of "hypocrisy and lawlessness" too. They didn't just turn wicked, yesterday, by no means!... But your work and your vigilance has forced their overwhelming wickedness to the fore, for everyone to see...the press, the world, and all conscientious JWs who abhor wickedness!...Nevertheless, JWs as a whole, with few exceptions, will continue to excuse ANY action on the part of the WTS, as having some divine justification before God. But Paul said, "...Happy is the man that does not put himself on judgment by the things he approves." (Romans 14:22) Blind faith in the WTS/GB makes them willing tools for Satan and all of his "evil" means and ends. They are "tools" for Satan, when they continue in this course, and press for the disfellowshipment and excommunication of the righteous, who wish to protect the innocent, defenseless children in our midst. JWs in en mass, will standby, or turn their heads, when all of these executions are carried out. They will adopt the attitude, the WTS "can do no wrong," -- this is how the vast majority of our spiritual "brothers" see it. Six million of them. They fell the WTS is actually beyond "correction". The say, the "WTS is our mother". Which means Jehovah God is really their not in the picture at all. He is in this case, the absentee father. But God has a solution. A profound one. --- Ezekiel 20 (American Standard) 35 and I will bring you into the wilderness of the peoples, and there I will enter into judgment with you face to face. 36 "As I entered into judgment with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so I will enter into judgment with you," declares the Lord GOD. 37 "I will make you pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant; 38 and I will purge from you the rebels and those who transgress against Me; I will bring them out of the land where they sojourn, but they will not enter the land of Israel. Thus you will know that I am the LORD [Jehovah]. Why? Ezekiel 20 (American Standard) 9 "But I acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations among whom they lived, in whose sight I made Myself known to them by bringing them out of the land of Egypt. 14 "But I acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations, before whose sight I had brought them out. 22 "But I withdrew My hand and acted for the sake of My name, that it should not be profaned in the sight of the nations in whose sight I had brought them out. 44 "Then you will know that I am the LORD [Jehovah] when I have dealt with you for My name's sake, not according to your evil ways or according to your corrupt deeds, O house of Israel," declares the Lord GOD.'" I think your post makes complete sense. But I'm afraid approximately 6 million JWs, both high officials and rank and file alike, ... don't. That's why, upon close examination in light of the recent "UN/GB" Scandal, and the more recent "Silentlamb Child-Abuse" Scandal, I believe God's Holy Heavenly Host of angels can all judge this organization truthfully as being disgusting spiritual "traitors of God" and "betrayers of Christ" as the Head of the Christian Congregation. Which of course certainly makes them, much to Satan the Devil's delight, totally unworthy of the name of "christian" at all. In short, no visible support of Bill Bowen's and the "silentlambs" movement by September 27, 2002 actually means, they are not "christian" at all and do not recognize Jesus Christ as the true "Head of the Congregation", but instead the WTS as such. So, instead of helping Bill, they wish for his execution (and all of his associates) and brand him a "traitor" before God. Thus by their either non-support, indifference or inaction toward Bill Bowen and the "Silentlambs" movement, they show Almighty God, Jesus Christ and all interested parties (heavenly or earthly) for the very FIRST TIME, why they really are: loyal, devoted worshipers of the Watchtower Society. --- Idolatry! --- Therefore, since the vast majority are this way, the only hope for any who are not inclined toward this "idolatrous" viewpoint, must as you say above, leave the WTS...immediately. Since their "fate" is sealed, and "judgment" imminent and righteously forthcoming. (Compare Ezekiel 36:3, 12-14 with Child Abuse Scandal; also compare Mark 13:14 with UN/GB Scandal) --- Hmm...Now, how's that for a finale, Xxxxxx?(smile) --- end of comments. --- NOTE: To "Silentlambs" & Associates --- In carrying out your most commendable fight for righteousness, something very sinister is going to surface. Something that has been known for many years by only a handful of keen students of scripture worldwide...but nevertheless known. As you approach your date with JW "martyrdom", it will be come increasingly plain for yourself, and in fact all observers and interested parties to see, the real WTS emerge. A wicked entity will emerge, that will mirror the wicked "Sanhedrin" of Jesus' day. One led by no less, the nefarious, "man of lawlessness", aka Governing Body...one who presides within "THE TEMPLE OF THE GOD". Someone, unrevealed fully, but shortly to become revealed by Jesus Christ himself. Someone so vile, words cannot describe...the foretold "man of lawlessness" who in shameless fashion, "publicly shows himself to be a god". One who openly "shows himself to be a god," before the general public. The Governing Body. (2 Thess. 2:3-12) They disfellowship the righteous, and no one among JWs says anything about it. No protest. The proverbial "sheep led to the slaughter". Today, "Silentlambs" & Associates, we are experiencing the very precise things described in bible prophecy...the "man of lawlessness"...also prophecies such as Ezekiel 34:1-12?...Ezekiel 34 (Amplified Bible) ... "AND THE word of the Lord [Jehovah] came to me, saying, Son of man, prophesy against the shepherds of Israel; prophesy and say to them, even to the [spiritual] shepherds, Thus says the Lord God: Woe to the [spiritual] shepherds of Israel who feed themselves! Should not the shepherds feed the sheep? You eat the fat, you clothe yourselves with the wool, you kill the fatlings, but you do not feed the sheep. The diseased and weak you have not strengthened, the sick you have not healed, the hurt and crippled you have not bandaged, those gone astray you have not brought back, the lost you have not sought to find, but with FORCE AND HARDHEARTED HARSHNESS YOU HAVE RULED THEM. And they were scattered because there was no shepherd, and when they were scattered they became food for all the wild beasts of the field. My sheep wandered through all the mountains and upon every high hill; yes, My sheep were scattered upon all the face of the earth and no one searched or sought for them. Therefore, you [spiritual] shepherds, hear the word of the Lord [Jehovah]: As I live, says the Lord God, surely because My sheep became a prey, and My sheep became food for every beast of the field because there was no shepherd--neither did My shepherds search for My sheep, but the shepherds fed themselves and fed not My sheep-- Therefore, O you [spiritual] shepherds, hear the word of the Lord: Thus says the Lord God: Behold, I am against the shepherds, and I will require My sheep at their hand and cause them to cease feeding the sheep, neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more. I will rescue My sheep from their mouths, that they may not be food for them. For thus says the Lord [Jehovah] God: Behold, I, I Myself, will search for My sheep and will seek them out. As a shepherd seeks out his sheep in the day that he is among his flock that are scattered, so will I seek out My sheep; and I will rescue them out of all places where they have been scattered in the day of clouds and thick darkness." --- "Silentlambs" and Associates...ask yourselves: Have we perhaps, reached the "day of clouds and thick darkness"...Jehovah's Day...the great day in which he "seeks out his lost sheep" that the wicked spiritual shepherds have brutalized and scattered throughout the entire earth?...Hmmmmmmmmmmm...something to think about I'd say. --- bjc2read@yahoo.com

Remote User:
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20 Jul 2002
Time:
19:28:10
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NEWSPAPER REPORT --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sat, 20 Jul 2002 17:55:45 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Local News --- Bowen wants hearing delayed --- Former Jehovah's Witness elder Bill Bowen said he is unable to attend Wednesday's rescheduled hearing. --- Paducah Sun, July 20, 2002 --- Staff and wire reports --- DRAFFENVILLE, Ky. --- A former Jehovah's Witness elder is asking that an excommunication hearing rescheduled for Wednesday be pushed back again because of the short notice. --- Bill Bowen, 44, of Draffenville faces expulsion from the church for publicly criticizing the church's handling of sexual abuse allegations. In a letter to the elder who will chair his judicial hearing, Bowen said he is unable to meet Wednesday and hoped to reschedule on "a date acceptable to all concerned." --- Bowen had a hearing scheduled in May, but it did not take place, because the elders scheduled to hear the case did not show up, Bowen said. --- Bowen resigned as a church elder in December 2000 to protest the church's policy on handling sexual abuse cases. He has complained that child-sex allegations are generally not reported to secular authorities by the Jehovah's Witnesses because of the church's closed nature and insistence on handling problems internally. --- Church leaders have denied wrongdoing. J. R. Brown, a spokesman for the denomination, has said that parents are not punished by the church for going to the police first in cases of child molestation. --- He also said if the church judicial committee finds a member guilty of molestation the member is removed from all positions of responsibility and may not evangelize door-to-door without being accompanied by a fellow Jehovah's Witness. --- Members of the church, even family members, are required to shun those who are excommunicated or disfellowshipped. Three others who have spoken out against the church's policies have been disfellowshipped in recent months. They are Barbara Anderson of Normandy Tenn. and Carl and Barbara Pandello, of Belmar, N.J.

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20 Jul 2002
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19:30:43
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BEST QUOTE OF THE DAY --- A visitor wrote: "COURAGE, LIKE FEAR, IS CONTAGIOUS." --- Thank you for that. Beautiful and inspiring! --- SLC

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20 Jul 2002
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19:36:05
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Welcome to Ruth Bryers Dunfermline, Scotland. ruthcub01@hotmail.com --- and --- ellielarkin1@aol.com. Thanks for the encouraging comments and for your stories. Take heart! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
19:37:07
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Another idea for name of an annex yahoogroup for lambs to correspond with each other: "LambRover." --- Rover means: a. One that roves; a wanderer; b. A crewed or uncrewed vehicle, used especially in exploring the terrain of a planet and its satellites. --- Not that great of a name. Oh well! :-/ SLC

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20 Jul 2002
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19:38:00
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FYI: Email re: missing posts (7/9-7/20/02) was sent to the SL webmaster's email addy approx. 7 am/EDT, Sat. 7/20/02. No reply as yet. Will let ya know when anything is heard. cc: to BB sent Sat. PM./SLC

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20 Jul 2002
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19:55:42
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Thanks to the visitor who offered this link <http://preventchildabuse.org/> --- I visited that site, and here's some of the info which could be helpful --- It has STATE and LOCAL OFFICES --- <http://preventchildabuse.org/get_local/index.html> --- "Our network of nearly 40 state chapters in 38 states and the District of Columbia are critical to our prevention mission. -- While united in their shared dedication to the prevention of child abuse and neglect, our chapters are unique in the programs and services they offer in order to meet local community needs." --- It has a US Map and you click on your state to find your local office/chapter. --- Example: For FLORIDA it gives this info below. Barbara was brainstorming the other day about getting more public awareness. Maybe this would be a good source to write to about that. --- Florida: PREVENT CHILD ABUSE AMERICA, Tracey Rajack, President, Florida Chapter, PCA America, The Family Source, 433 N. Magnolia Dr., Tallahassee, FL 32308, Phone: (850) 488-5437, Fax: (850) 921-0322, Send an E-Mail www.familysource.org

This same website has a "STAY INFORMED" link --- http://www.preventchildabuse.org/stay_informed/index.cfm --- Here is what they can PROVIDE you if you fill out their online form: "Yes! I would like to learn more about how I can help prevent child abuse and neglect. I am interested in the following (check all that apply): -- *Materials for promoting prevention efforts in my community -- *General information about Prevent Child Abuse America -- *How to become a member or donor of Prevent Child Abuse America -- *Send me your Lookin' Up newsletter (Please include your email address) -- *Keep me updated on your legislative efforts (Please include your email address) -- *Effective discipline techniques -- *How to be a better parent -- *A catalog of publications -- (Then fill out their online form and submit).

They also have a webpage re: "I WANT TO GET ACTIVE" -- <http://preventchildabuse.org/get_active/index.html> -- and here is what that page says: "Prevent Child Abuse America's Advocacy Program --- Prevent Child Abuse America is committed to promoting legislation, policies and programs that help to prevent child abuse and neglect, support healthy childhood development, and strengthen families. -- The Advocacy Program operates on the national, state and local levels. We monitor critical legislation that impacts children and families; work to obtain and maintain funding for prevention programs; and collaborate with organizations, community leaders and public policy makers. -- Prevent Child Abuse America believes we can be most effective for children and families through collaboration. To this end, we work closely with our state chapters and Healthy Families America® sites across the country to address issues on state and local levels. On the national level, our efforts are combined with over thirty professional organizations through the National Child Abuse Coalition. This coalition was formed in 1981 to coordinate federal advocacy efforts on behalf of abused and neglected children and is based in Washington, D.C. --- Sounds like a good outfit to hook up with! --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
19:59:31
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REPOST from 7-12-02: Don't get yourselves dfed get those bastards dfed! Yes stop being a silentlamb and enjoy being a viper. (Author Unknown)

Remote User:
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20 Jul 2002
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19:59:55
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REPOST from 7-12-02: Today I have made an announcement on the police. And I´m still alive... :) I felt that this is the right thing...and I have waited too long... I could tell you so much but I lost my own words. I thank for this especially my God Jehovah!! Ewelina P. Germany

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20 Jul 2002
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20:00:25
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REPOST from 7-12-02: If only one new person posts on this site in a month it is not futile. Someone has to be here when they arrive...one precious human being is worth whatever it takes to help...even if it is repeating myself/ourselves with words of comfort and understanding...who could possibly comfort too much?...Ask God. oh my , I am on my soap box today or what? Am I bi-polizing, PMSing, Menopausing, or choking on a pork chop>? Love from Claudine

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20 Jul 2002
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20:01:01
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REPOST from 7-12-02: By the way I can't find the post regarding a Florida case that was involved with a Witness Social worker who phoned the molester Witness to take his children from school before he got caught. Was it from a local newspaper? Can I get the link?Age00

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Date:
20 Jul 2002
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20:01:27
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REPOST from 7-12-02: PANORAMA has landed!!

Remote User:
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20 Jul 2002
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20:01:49
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REPOST from 7-12-02: Hey This is Penny. J

Remote User:
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20 Jul 2002
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20:02:35
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REPOST from 7-12-02: BLM wrote: My question is this, who after someone did something like they did in the lambs life would ever consider the criminal a 'brother'? and since that criminal can not (after the crime) be considered a true brother, who needs the two or more witness's?!... Does a monster become a monster after the 'bath'? ...

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20 Jul 2002
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20:03:24
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REPOST from 7-12-02: "BE HEARTENED THOSE OF YOU WHO THEY HAVE WRONGED. For JEHOVAH has great wrath. Until then, so does society. paldridge3@aol.com" --- Hey paldridge: Very Well Said! I like that resounding encouragement. It almost sounds just like a scripture! /SLC

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Date:
20 Jul 2002
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20:04:14
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REPOST from 7-12 or 13-02: Jazzbug wrote: "He said it is not so much the abuse that is hard to recover from although that does take some work and time but it is the way it is handled that causes the long term distress." --- Yes, Jazz, thanks for putting that out there, and I have heard the same thing from professionals. People need to hear this because I do not think most people understand that IS where the "damage" comes from. Your physical body will heal, but the imbedded trauma in your psyche, not having been validated/cared for AT THE TIME OF THE ABUSE, is what causes the long-term torment. If people only UNDERSTOOD that BASIC/SIMPLE FACT, NOBODY WOULD EVER suggest "keep it quiet"! --- Jazz continued: "... a JW, I thought this was one place that this type of evil did not exist. But my blinders have been destroyed..." --- Yes, JB, I know exactly how you feel. The blinders were ripped off (from all of us JWs and/or former JWs) in an instant of time and we were blinded from the shocking revelations. It IS very painful to have to learn it/then absorb it/process it/grieve over it/come to terms with it. I'll never forget the first time I saw this site last fall/winter and could not stop crying and reading for days and days all re: all of the stories/accounts of abuse. --- And I agree with you, " the truth is the truth and the truth will prevail." Always better to know the truth, no matter how painful, than stay in the dark, imho! --- Jazz closed with: "I have come out of a month of depression over this enlightenment..." Dearest JB, I promise it does get easier... I think I was depressed for months and months, but I kept reading 'cuz I couldn't stop. And I really was struck by your use of the words depression and enlightenment in the same sentence. I like that! That is Growth! Hang in there. Love/Silent Lambs Cheerleader (a/k/a SLC)

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:04:54
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REPOST from 7-12 or 13-02: To the person who wrote this: "The people who sat there feeling sorry for themselves or the people who continued serving God despite the adversity? After all, its not what others do - its what YOU do." --- I understand where you are coming from and what you are trying to say. I am sure it has not yet occurred to you we could say the same thing and apply it to you, i.e., "YOU are one of the people (in total denial) sitting there feeling sorry for YOURself (because the truth of abuse by JWs has been exposed)" -- let that sink in for a minute. --- Then you say and you are thinking that YOU continue serving God despite all adversities in YOUR life (and maybe you do), but how can YOU (a mere human) make a judgment call upon US by "ASSuming" we are "NOT" serving God DESPITE OUR ADVERSITIES? Think about it, ol' wise one! Shall not Jehovah call us "to serve where the Need Is Great" (among abuse survivors)? --- You continued by saying, and this is the best part, "After all, it's not what others do - it's what YOU do." May I again apply this back to you, i.e., We say to you: "It's not what others (like yourself) are doing (which is doing nothing), it's about what WE ARE DOING FOR OURSELVES by healing, encouraging, supporting, exposing, etc. -- Is it sinking in YET? I hope so. Thank you for considering ANOTHER way to look at things, from OUR side of the fence. We already KNOW YOUR side of the fence because we were all THERE at ONE TIME (and some still ARE there). Have you ever been on OUR SIDE of the fence? I think not. Regards/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:05:29
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: I am sad for the person who wrote this: "Please will you stop causing our religion trouble. Not all of us are Pedophiles. you were once one of us." --- Yes, 'Hurting One'... and I am sure you are hurting or you wouldn't speak like that. I am sad to have to enlighten you (in all sincerity) that it is NOT US nor Bill Bowen who are "causing your (our former) religion trouble." The truth is it is YOUR (our former) brothers/sisters/abusers and YOUR (our former) VERY OWN LEADERS, from the top down, GB, their Legal Beagles, the Elders, etc., WHO ARE CAUSING YOUR RELIGION TROUBLE. (I use caps for Emphasis, not Hollering). When we are hurting, it's easy to pass the buck, as you are so doing in blaming us and/or this website, etc. Surely you must know this, or maybe you are a young person without experience. It hurts to "see the light," but the light must come, and the light is here regarding sex abuse/pedophiles in the JWs and everywhere. How do you know it is not Jehovah's TIME FRAME for it to be exposed in all the earth and in ALL the religions? How do you know it is NOT? --- And yes, we KNOW not all JWs are pedophiles. And yes, we were once one of you, and maybe we still are in the sense we are always for Jehovah God and his son, Jesus Christ. --- Please try to expand your mind (yes, it can be painful to do so). But keeping it closed will stunt your growth and blind your heart to truth. And remember, Truth comes in all shapes/sizes/color/flavors, i.e., some truth feels "good" and some truth feels very bad, like sex abuse and its cover up, but it IS TRUTH just the same. Respectfully/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:06:22
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: To the person who wrote: "Michael Jackson is an XJW and his mom can associate with him - WHY?" --- Probably the only way to get answers like that is to write the WTS and ask them and/or write his Mom and ask her or write her elders and ask them! --- You said: "Also, the Williams Sisters (tennis pros) are JW's..." --- I was under the impression they were merely studying. Anybody else know for sure? And as for worldly sports, well if these girls were raised in the sport-world of tennis, and then later began to study, so what of it? Not everyone has the same conscience. All of those "suggestions" you hear in the mags and at meetings about sports, etc., are just that, Suggestions, but in the end you can decide for yourself, remember? You do have your own conscience, right? Regards/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:06:48
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: Hey DJB: Thanks for the date of letter reading in Canada. Bill sent around an email about it and it is posted above in the Guestbook. --- I loved your story about your ex exiting town same time as the letter was read. That is SOME good timing, eh? Agree, no such coincidences! Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:07:30
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: Loris, thanks for the well-expressed feelings. I think if anyone were NOT depressed about it, there would be something terribly wrong with us as human beings. When grieving I would always like to remember the scripture at Ezekiel 9:4, and know I was not alone in my grief: "Pass thru the midst of the city, thru the midst of Jerusalem, and you must put a mark on the foreheads of the men that are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the midst of it." And don't stop at verse 4, read ALL of it, right now get your Bibles, gang, and read it, thru to the end of Chapter 9 (11 total verses)... does it not strike you in the heart or what? Especially, oh shoot, I should type out the whole chapter because it is SO GOOD to read it and feel comforted (and for any visitors who may not be familiar with it) --- Here goes, and as the other scripture says in Hebrews, "The word of God IS ALIVE" so fill in your current/LIVE interpretation here: "Pass thru the midst of the city (JWs worldwide), thru the midst of Jerusalem, and you must put a mark on the foreheads of the men (JWs) that ARE sighing and groaning over all the detestable (sex abuse) things that are being done in the midst of it. And to those [others] (others who think nothing of it/who deny it/who cover it up) he said in my ears: 'Pass thru the city after him and strike. Let not your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women you should kill off -- to a ruination. But to any man (JWs) upon whom there IS the mark do NOT go near, AND FROM MY SANCTUARY (GB) YOU SHOULD START.' SO THEY STARTED WITH THE OLD MEN (GB) THAT WERE BEFORE THE HOUSE. And he said further to them: 'Defile the house (HQ) and fill the courtyards (congs) with the slain ones. Go forth!' And they went forth and struck in the city. And it came about that while they were striking and I was yet remaining, I proceeded to fall upon my face and cry out and say: 'Alas, O Lord Jehovah! Are you bringing to ruin all the remaining ones (JWs) of Israel while you are pouring out your rage upon Jerusalem?' So he said to me: 'The ERROR of the house of Israel and Judah is VERY, VERY GREAT, and the land is filled with bloodshed and the city (congs) is full of CROOKEDNESS; for they have said, 'Jehovah has left the land and JEHOVAH IS NOT SEEING.' And as for me also, my eye will not feel sorry, neither shall I show compassion. THEIR WAY I shall certainly bring upon THEIR OWN HEAD.' And, look! the man clothed with the linen, at whose hips there was the inkhorn, was bringing back word, saying: "I have done just as you have commanded me.'" (Ezekiel 9:4-11). -- Whew! Heavy stuff, but isn't it a great reminder of how Jehovah loves RIGHTEOUSNESS and IS WATCHING and taking care of things NOW. -- Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:08:22
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: PS to Loris: And I'm with you on the "Who needs shrinks!!" ;) They have their purpose (been there/done that), but in the end we all have to figure it out for ourselves, 'cuz nobody can FEEL our FEELINGS for us. Three Cheers for you for "working on (your) personal healing process"! Keep up the good work and growth! Love/SLC

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20 Jul 2002
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20:08:44
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: Hi CJ: Welcome. The letter Bill wrote to the GB and info about the March is posted further above in the Guestbook. On your next visit maybe you will have time to read more of the details. Greetings/SLC

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Date:
20 Jul 2002
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20:09:08
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: Bonnielynn's son wrote: "When I go to GOD, I want to go on my own two feet, not on my knees!" BLM then said, "How profound, how proud can I be!" --- WOW, BLM! That IS profound! What a well-expressed young man you have for a son, with a strong heart like a lion! I love his quote! /SLC

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Date:
20 Jul 2002
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20:09:33
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: Re: Soap Box' comment to Jazzbug: Right On Soap Box! Let the heartfelt expressions Roll! Loved it! /SLC

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20 Jul 2002
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20:09:58
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: Hey, Mr. Mole!!! THANKS for the encouragement and good advice from yourself and bro Franz. Nice to hear from you again, too. I love your Mysterious Ways! ;) /SLC

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Date:
20 Jul 2002
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20:11:39
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REPOSTING from 7-12 or 13-02: (NY Times) re: the "prosecutors across the nation are taking investigations of clerical sexual abuse before more than a dozen grand juries in recent weeks, stepping up their inquiries into whether Roman Catholic bishops endangered children by ignoring the crimes, prosecutors and church officials said... District attorneys from Phoenix to St. Louis to Long Island are using the secret grand juries to obtain subpoenas for personnel records and other records from Catholic dioceses and to compel the testimony of bishops and priests..." --- Kinda makes ya wanna go "Hmmmmm..." what's NEXT for the WTS?

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:12:54
Comments
REPOSTING --- July 12 If anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he is deceiving his own mind.-- Gal. 6:3. http://jwzone.org/ Thursday, July 11 | Saturday, July 13 No matter what responsibilities have been entrusted to us, none of us should feel that we are superior to others. Why? Because "all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." (Rom. 3:23; 5:12) Yes, we should never forget that all of us have inherited sin and death from Adam. Special privileges do not elevate us from our lowly sinful condition. (Eccl. 9:2)

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:13:46
Comments
REPOSTING from 7-12-02: ...and you are deceiving yourselves to think that Jehovah supports you in supporting them with your "forgiveness" or tolerance or non-judgement. *** IT IS EASY FOR YOU TO "forgive or forget or tolerate" WHAT WAS NOT DONE TO YOU!!!! *** It has become apparent that wrong is right and right is wrong. To believe that it is SUPERIOR to forgive/tolerate/accept a pedophile and not extend this "love" to one who has been incomprehensibly harmed is a false sense of righteousness. To even think that Jehovah is going to punish the silentlambs anymore than they have already suffered is wicked thinking. *** guess something here has pushed my button...soap box

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:23:53
Comments
SLC it sure is a shame that all your wonderful posts disappeared! And the letters that Mr. Anderson and Mr. Bowen wrote! Bye the way Bravo again Mr. Anderson!! I did save the posts on the 18th (I think). For the two (I think) new lambs, Please repost!!! I read one this morning, don't know if it's still there! I do know that this part of the guest book was getting pretty loaded. A special public Thank you to Loris for the email!! It sure takes a special person to think of others as you do!! Mrs. Anderson if you read this I can only imagine how proud and humbled you must be towards your husband! I know I am with all of you here! I did get permission to go to NY in Sept.! I don't know if that will happen but I am trying to 'get all my eggs in a basket' in hopes that I can.! SLC again, sure hate losing your posts, the "Blasts of Montgomery" and the scriptures! I hope that you saved some of them! I didn't :-( Keep it up SLC, I know I enjoy them! DUHHHHHHHH! LOL GOTTA LOVE IT! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:25:43
Comments
REPOSTING --- NEWSPAPER ARTICLE --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 22:00:12 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Elder sent to prison BBCi http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/uk/england/newsid_2123000/2123546.stm Thursday, 11 July, 2002, 20:28 GMT 21:28 UK Jehovah's Witness jailed for abusing boys James Barratt is led away to begin his sentence An elder in the Jehovah's Witness church has been jailed for child abuse. James Barratt, 45, of Rugby, Warwickshire, a married man with two children, was found guilty of indecently assaulting two teenagers entrusted to him for Bible studies and counseling. The court heard that Barratt, a church elder, had "systematically" abused two former members of his congregation over a 10-year period. Warwick Crown Court heard that Barratt, a trusted friend of the boys' families, had used Bible lessons and counseling sessions as an opportunity to indecently assault the teenagers. Victim Gordon Grant Throughout the four-day trial Barratt maintained that he had tried to be a father figure to the boys. Sentencing him, Judge James Pike said he had been entrusted with vulnerable young people. He was, he said, an arch-hypocrite. Barratt was jailed for two years with 12 months suspended. He will be put on the sex offenders' register for 10 years. Detective Inspector Jim Hill of Warwickshire Police: "I consider him to be an extremely dangerous individual. His approach to the victims was via the parents. Go straight to police and get it dealt with by people who are experienced Victim Gordon Grant "He formed a very strong bond with the families and clearly he has gone on to abuse that trust." One of his victims, Gordon Grant, now 23 , said he had been disappointed by the church's reaction to the allegations. "If people have got this problem don't go to the elders or the leaders of the church. Don't bother with them. "Go straight to police and get it dealt with by people who are experienced and know what they are doing." Breaking News Jehovah's Witness found guilty of child abuse An elder in the Jehovah's Witness church is tonight beginning a jail sentence for child abuse. James Barratt, a married man with two children, was accused in court of being an arch hypocrite. A jury at Warwick Crown Court found 45-year-old James Barratt guilty of indecently assaulting two teenagers trusted to him for bible studies and counseling at a church in Rugby. He has been jailed for two years with 12 months suspended, after denying eight charges of indecent assault dating back to the 1980s. He will be put on the sex offenders register for 10 years.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:27:28
Comments
REPOSTING from 7-11-02: From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 16:56:55 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Guardian Article Sect demands biblical proof http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4430293,00.html Stephen Bates, religious affairs correspondent Guardian Monday June 10, 2002 Elders of the Jehovah's Witnesses in the US have been given instructions to deal with pedophiles after a series of damaging revelations. But its critics say that the sect's decision to accept accusations only if the abuse has two independent witnesses is unlikely to solve the problem. The Watch Tower, its headquarters in Brooklyn, is used to implicit obedience and is struggling to regain its battered authority. In a letter to be read at services, it says: "We abhor the sexual abuse of children and will not protect any perpetrator of such repugnant acts ... "However, we must bear in mind the Bible's clear direction: 'No single witness should rise up against a man respecting any error or any sin. At the mouth of two witnesses or at the mouth of three witnesses the matter should stand good (Deuteronomy 19:15)." The church, which has 6 million members around the world, has been convulsed by the revelation that its elders have protected sex offenders, refused to report accusations to the police, and even punished children and families making accusations. Two members have been charged with "disrupting the unity of the congregation" and "undermining confidence in Jehovah's arrangement" for repeating their accusations on an NBC television program. Barbara Anderson, a former headquarters employee who claimed to have seen hundreds of suppressed files of accusations, was expelled after a private hearing held in her absence. The case against the second, Bill Bowen, a Kentucky elder, has been postponed. Mr Bowen was so alarmed by the suppression of allegations that he created a website, silentlambs.org, to investigate the scale of the problem. He told NBC: "It's a pedophile's paradise within the organization. I believe that. I believe it with all my heart."

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:28:58
Comments
REPOSTING from 7-11-02: From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Thu, 11 Jul 2002 14:58:43 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Another letter This letter was sent to me from a person who has written several letters to the GB and is an active witness. bill Governing Body of JW's 25 Columbia Heights Brooklyn, New York 11201-2483 Fax: (718) 560-5619 RE: Child sacrifice in ancient Israel: Restoring the faith of persons adversely affected by child rape case policies. Dear Brothers: Jehovah's loving words to the ancient nation of Israel makes it clear: regardless of what adverse spiritual situation worshippers are in, its realistic for them to successfully repent, turn around, and again regain Jehovah's favor. What a wonderful thing! How wonderful for ones who for whatever reason have wound up in adverse spiritual situations! “Though the sins of you people should prove to be as scarlet, they will be made white just like snow; ” (Isaiah 1:18) Questions for us all Can persons adversely affected physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually by the nightmare of child rape be restored to full faith? Is there anything extra we can consider doing to “go the extra mile” toward assisting such ones? How should those of us never personally exposed to child rape view/treat/understand such ones? Israelite leadership's adverse role Israel's leadership definitely contributed to the climate of the nation. “Remiss” and/or outwardly wicked kings, priests, and prophets set the stage for the nation's break from their commitment to the Law Covenant. It seems then as now that basically three camps get formed – those who stick with true worship, those who go with the national tide into unclean worship, and those who because of personal outrage over seeing the horrors of false worship go inactive toward true worship - yet do not go into false worship. Those who desired to stick with right principles faced a crisis of conscience. Many were likely stumbled by the inaction of leadership toward making obvious changes. Affect on honest hearted ones No doubt there were ones who, because of total outrage over the regular child sacrifices going on, were stumbled away from true worship. Any reasonable Israelite, trained in the Holy writings, would wonder: ? How can Jehovah be looking down on this awful situation and not fix it? How can I just stand by and watch babies being pitched into the fires of Molech? Is there a way to work within the “organization” against this - yet not get removed? · A local Israelite brother working for a food preparation company handling the refreshments at the high place event every week quits because his conscience is bothering him so badly. While at work, he can see the little babies being brought up for the sacrifices (“They seem drugged?”. “How can this be happening?”. “I think I saw my wife's little niece being brought in!”). His nightmares are becoming severe. On days of the “ceremonies” he can hear the awful shrieks of agony each baby cries out as it is lowered into the fire. Now out of work, his family is under financial stress. His former workmates and connections in the food prep business have blackballed him because of his “bad attitude” and risking the work contract with his complaints. He moves his family to Egypt to find work - to get away from the harassment from former friends and family. Having been severely stumbled, they become inactive. · A high court official of many years is removed from his administration position. Despite fervent and repeated admonitions at convincing leadership that child sacrifices are wrong according to the Law – he'd finally ripped leadership for non-action in the matter. He is removed totally from service to the king's court. His family, once respected and loved by all, are now treated like vermin by relatives, former friends, business associates. They are so outraged by the complicity being shown that they cease worship at the temple. Besides, the officiating priest is the man's uncle and is involved in arranging the child sacrifices. They've had many heated arguments and they no longer can be in the same room with each other. Once they were very close. Changes from the top Josiah's search for Truth culminated in a public, honest, and top down repentance action. After ripping his garments and repenting for himself and for the sins of the nation, Josiah went on a nationwide campaign of change. Remove unrepentant priests, prophets, and national officials. Tear down the high places and sacred poles. Restore worship services and sacrifices at the temple. A heartfelt, “no holds barred” action of rectifying past misdeeds – this was an open and straightforward admission for mistakes of the past. How heartrending for right hearted but stumbled ones to witness the very king of Israel making a public break from the traditions of his forefathers! Josiah's father Amon and his grandfather Manasseh had ruled for 57 years. They'd shed innocent blood “in very great quantity” with child sacrifices (2 Kings 21:22). But now honest hearted ones are stunned! Jehovah is now fixing this horrible matter in a wonderful way! (2 Kings 22-23). The cook and the former official hear the news and are shocked. Tears of mixed emotion come to their faces as they hear the king's national plan. No more will child sacrifice take place in the nation. The king's heralds are sent throughout the land to declare the king's orders of change. Josiah, realizing the wrongful treatment of ones like the cook and the former official and their families, deploys older men dressed in sackcloth to convey his personal heartfelt apology for the sins of the nation in this matter. Josiah sends his personal appeal to return to true worship with renewed faith and zeal. “It's a new day – the past is over! The True God has heard your cries for justice!” Page 2 of 2

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:29:23
Comments
about the going door to door? I always thought two or more did that anyway! and even if a 'found guilty' perv is not allowed any responsible positions doesn't mean the he/she isn't sitting next to an unsuspecting family! AND I would not appreciate a perv knocking on my door telling me that I am a sinner and need to find GOD! Who is he/she to come to my door and tell me that! P-L-E-A-S-E! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:32:34
Comments
OK, kids. That's the best I can do. Don't mean to be hogging the Guestbook here last night and today. (Really, Visitors, OTHER PEOPLE besides SLC do post here!) ;) I have gone thru all my stuff and reposted whatever I could find, but still SO MUCH IS MISSING from ELEVEN DAYS! I only keep a little here, a little there... If anyone else has anything in their file folders, feel free to repost and re-construct! ;) Since I will be out of commission in the early part of the week, last night I was doing my best to catch up with quite a few replies, and most are now history into cyberspace. Oh well. Hope all are having a nice weekend, and take care! Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:51:55
Comments
'Always in pairs'...you know, that means you could have TWO pedophiles at your door. (And both of them unaware that they are on each other's 'turf')

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
20:59:22
Comments
Is this just 'silly talk'? I heard that the Pope is planning to visit NY and wants to visit Bethel. This is a little hard to imagine, but has anyone else heard this? Or was it just put out there for amusement? Thanks.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
21:06:17
Comments
OFF TOPIC: < http://www.observer.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,750782,00.html> A study by the World Wildlife Fund (WWF), to be released on Tuesday, warns that the human race is plundering the planet at a pace that outstrips its capacity to support life. In a damning condemnation of Western society's high consumption levels, it adds that the extra planets (the equivalent size of Earth) will be required by the year 2050 as existing resources are exhausted. The report, based on scientific data from across the world, reveals that more than a third of the natural world has been destroyed by humans over the past three decades.

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
21:13:24
Comments
BRILLIANT SUMMATION!!!! --- (Someone wrote: 'Always in pairs'...you know, that means you could have TWO pedophiles at your door. (And both of them unaware that they are on each other's 'turf')

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
22:55:55
Comments
I think whoever though of this web was a very good person because so many people can be helped I know it helped me to see that I am not the only one that went through this. Theresa

Remote User:
Date:
20 Jul 2002
Time:
23:34:38
Comments
I have a question how does one find if they have been disfellowshipped? We had stopped attending as I said after my husband was in a serious wreck and NO witnesses were to be found until of course the elders started hounding him for not attending, I mean so what that he had ruptured disks and couldn't sit that long. Then when we went and he had to sit and stand and walk they said he was a "disruption". When he asked for a phone link or them to tape the meetings he was ignored LOL So do they tell you if you are disfellowshipped, I'm just curious as if they did it on the sly ya know. Sheila Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
08:27:52
Comments
Sheila, I'm not sure as I have not been involved with the KH in many years and then only as an alien, so to speak, but I think they probably have you and your husband listed as 'inactive'. I have read a few posts here that pretty much have said the same,, being ignored, not getting visits, not show of support by THEM in your time of need, etc... From what I have determined to put it bluntly, is that they are there there there, when its up to getting you 'IN' and once you are, and not a part of the 'clicky group' it's 'everyone for himself and hope your not drowning seeking one of them to cast out the life preserver I do not think this on my own, if the posts are still here, early in the month of June there is a heartbreaking story regarding this very thing! In fact it's a letter to the GB or elders. Please tell your husband that "I HAVE BEEN THERE" with the back, it's very painful! I do know! I have termed it my 'constant pain in the butt'! I will also testify that even though I was taught that faith healing isn't 'to be done' in this time, I did ask for relief and it hasn't been so bad since, be it the mind over matter working or whatever, I give all the credit to our FATHER! Bless you and your family always! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
08:29:16
Comments
'typo' should read no show of support! Silly keyboard! I won't try to fix the others, I'm sure there are more! Sorry! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
08:38:06
Comments
I've debated whether to REPOST my story, deciding instead to REPOST this one, for this is very important so, HERE IS A REPOST, I forget which day it was first posted...with some typo fixes... I recently read that the jws teach that our Father does not hear the prayers of ones that have not been baptized! I was raised being taught that their ‘truth' is the only ‘truth' and it is embedded in my brain so strongly that when I read this I believed it! How stupid can an intelligent person really be!! I should have known better! ANYWAY, I found this scripture, (in a lot of bibles it says children instead of boys,) but for the sake of their ‘truth' I am quoting these following scriptures from their bible, New World Translation, Ezekiel 20 30, 31 says: Therefore say to the house of Israel, ‘this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah has said: “In the way of your forefathers are YOU people defiling yourselves, and after their disgusting things are YOU going in immoral intercourse? And in lifting up YOUR gifts by making YOUR sons pass through the fire, are YOU defiling yourselves for all YOUR dungy idols down till today? At the same time I myself be inquired of by YOU people, O house of Israel?”... As I am alive,' is the utterance of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah, ‘I will NOT be inquired of you... It clearly states here that the ones sacrificing the ‘boys' of Israel are not heard by our Father!! That is the jws bible saying this! I don't think that the sacrifice has to be by literal fire, it can also be through spiritual fire! AND if not sticking up for the victims, abusing the victims body and spirit is not spiritual fire I don't' know what else could be! Following is another scripture that clearly says how our FATHER viewed this abomination in the old testament, Leviticus 20 1-5 And Jehovah went on speaking to Moses, saying: “You are to say to the sons of Israel, ‘Any man of the sons of Israel, and any alien resident who resides as an alien in Israel, who gives any of his offspring to Molech, should be put to death without fail. The people of the land should pelt him to death with stones. And as for me, I shall set my face against that man, and I will cut him off from among his people, because he has given some of his offspring to Molech for the purpose of defiling my holy place and to profane my holy name. And if the people of the land should deliberately hide their eyes from that man when he gives any of his offspring to Molech by not putting him to death, then I, for my part, shall certainly fix my face against that man and his family, and I shall indeed cut him and all those who have immoral intercourse along with him in having immoral intercourse with Molech off from among their people. FYI when looking for scriptures regarding this, search many translations. I could not find the scripture through the JW concordance, or whatever they call it. They are hidden, except to those searching. bonnielynn/BLM

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
08:38:57
Comments
*** w93 11/15 30 Why Admit a Mistake? *** Happy to Admit Mistakes As the examples of Saul and David illustrate, the way we handle our mistakes can affect our lives. Saul stubbornly resisted counsel, and his mistakes multiplied, eventually culminating in his death in God's disfavor. Despite David's mistakes and sins, however, he repentantly accepted correction and remained faithful to Jehovah. (Compare Psalm 32:3-5.) Is that not our desire? The greatest reward for admitting and rectifying a mistake or repenting of sin is knowing that it has been forgiven by God. "Happy is the one . . . whose sin is covered," said David. "Happy is the man to whose account Jehovah does not put error." (Psalm 32:1, 2) How wise it is, then, to admit a mistake! IT'S ABOUT TIME THE SOCIETY STARTED TO PRACTICE WHAT THEY PREACH! a concerned JW

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
09:06:19
Comments
FROM A POST ABOVE: If State laws require reporting, conscientious elders report to the authorities. Because most elders are not current on local law as well as for other reasons, elders are to report abuse to the Watchtower's Legal Department for review and advice. Please keep in mind that only 16 states require this. Other states require that we do *not* report, citing “ecclesiastical privilege.” AT THE RISK OF REPEATING MYSELF - A JW will not follow a man's law if it interferes with our FATHERS law, that being said, If reporting abuse in the states that have the man's law, obviously this must not interfere with our FATHERS LAW so, since it is not interfering with our FATHERS law, then reporting it in the states that do not REQUIRE it must not interfere with our FATHERS law! Simple, common sense stuff here! You cannot use a 'man's law' loophole to protect a perv! If you hear of an abuse YOU the ELDERS and YOU the LEGAL Department are REQUIRED by our FATHER to insist that the suspicion is brought to Caesar! If there is a man's law forbidding you to do this then it is your OBLIGATION to insist the abused one or even the abuser calls Caesar! Give to Caesar's what belongs to Caesar and give to our FATHER what belongs to HIM, I would like just one of you to verbally state that a child molester is one who belongs to our FATHER! Just one of you say this to yourself out loud and see how stupid the saying of it sounds, let alone making us outsiders, aliens, possible recruits, believe that is what your thinking and teaching! Golly, I wonder if it's just the scarecrow who needs a brain, and the tin man who needs a heart! Maybe that show is full of this that and the others that we are not supposed to be apart of BUT it does also teaches compassion, understanding, love, and what it means to have courage! TELL ME not to be apart of this world and YOU belonged to the UN the whole time! TELL ME not to be apart of this world and YOU own stock in company's that have contracts with the Navy! TELL ME not to be apart of this world and my little children's bible story book I got from YOU have pictures taken from an older bible story book NOT Belonging to YOU! Shame on YOU! TELL ME not to be part of this world and NOW I can't even open my door to one of YOU for fear of one of YOU being a perv out to get my daughter! SHAME ON YOU! SHAME SHAME SHAME! Read YOUR bible with an open heart! YOU BUSINESS PR MEN, LEGAL DEPARTMENT, TELL ME NOT TO BE A PART OF THIS WORLD AND YOU HAVE A PR MAN AND A LEGAL DEPARTMENT – I DON'T! move over soapbox!!! Just for a sec! SLC – will miss you this week! ALL MY LOVE TO EVERYONE ESPECIALLY THE LEGAL DEPARTMENT AND THE PR DEPARTMENT bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
11:22:47
Comments
In response to ruthcub01: Thanks for the response to the "other" abuses in the organization. It has been hard to deal with and finding out we weren't alone has helped tremendously in an emotional way. I'm sorry to hear that it is the same all over, almost was more livable to think that they were just protecting one set of child abusers, how sad for so many victims. Best of wishes Sheila (I tried to e-mail this but it came back as a bad address?)

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
11:33:49
Comments
In response to BonnieLynn: Yes we were baptized witnesses my husband grew up in the "deceit" and I got involved in 1984. We were always treated weird by them for example one time although I had a four month old baby boy and a daughter just two(and my kids were GOOD kids they didn't cry or scream anyways), I decided to go out in service arrived ON TIME they overseer put everyone in ONE CAR I MEAN LIKE PEOPLE and left me and my children to go out ALONE. I was so hurt, I'll never forget watching them pull away and walking my territory with two babies BY MYSELF. I was all of 21 and still can feel the hurt and pain they caused from just this one incident. Making me feel that I wasn't GOOD enough WHY? I was so wonderful when I was studying they even used me as an example in an assembly program but once I hit that water that was it. So anyways (can you believe writing this is making me CRY after something that happened 17 years ago) I just was wondering if they secretly disfellowshipped us or if they are to scared since we really never had any scriptural ground for being disfellowshipped? Just an overall disdain for a group that damage the heart and souls of Gods children be they young or old. Nuff of my soap box for today, if anyone would like more wonderful stories on physical emotional or spiritual abuse, I have enough for two or three lifetimes. Thanks for listening somehow it helps Sheila Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
11:35:21
Comments
above comment should say LIKE 6 people in one car

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
12:16:30
Comments
To Sheila...the general procedure is for a committee to send you at least 2 letters requesting a meeting with you if they feel you are doing something meriting DFing. If you do not reply to the letters, then they will assume you are guilty and will DF'd you but will send a letter to you stating that. I think it has to be certified. But as we have learned recently, they do not always follow procedure. It is most likely that you are considered inactive as the other person stated. Hope this helps to answer your question. jazbug55

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
12:42:06
Comments
Sheila Madonia I used to travel thirty miles to my nearest Kingdom Hall (in Barry South Wales) for every meeting... However. I was completely ignored by everyone in the congregation.. Not one single person would even say Hello!... While they spouted off about how many magazines they had placed and new contacts they had made,... I was screaming in my mind "What about me!!? I'm here! Un-baptized, believe it is the truth, travel a round trip of thirty miles to get here only to be completely ignored!!... it went on for several years, I forced myself to go for the sake of my wife who needed something to cling too with having a very serious ongoing illness and a handicapped child... although I am a man in the true sense of the word, I used to come out of the meetings crying my eyes out!! Saying to myself... "Where is this Identification sign of love that Christ spoke about his true followers?"... In the end I had a virtual breakdown over it and developed a phobia about JW's and religion as a whole... Slowly over the years I have returned to meetings at other Kingdom Halls in the heart of England were I have been treated with overwhelming love... and everyone at least says "Hello!" My feeling is that there are some congregations were there are definitely serious problems, were they have CLANNEY OR CLICKY CIRCLES and outside those circles you don't exist... but on the other hand there are a great number where there are Brothers and Sisters who practice the truth with their whole sole... After 35 years being an interested person, and being put off by experiences like that above, I did become baptized in the fall of 1998... Again my faith is being tested with the exposure of pedophiles within the congregation... I can cope with that but I feel there should be stronger guidelines by the Society for the victims of these crimes and I understand that there is no objection by the Society for victims to report the matter to the police which is a step forward... My feeling now is... Show me a religion that is closer to the early Christians and Apostles and I will look into it... But I feel at this stage there is no religion closer to true Christianity than JW's Regards JC

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
21:33:15
Comments
The Moonies have no USE for anyone that is not healthy and able to endure long days of "working for the master" and go without. *** It appears that this is the same the WTS regarding people like Sheila's husband with ruptured discs. *** I too have suffered cruelty from the JWs, very inappropriate, rude, thoughtless, and many times outright cruel behavior and never could I get it that they were the "ones lacking Love" I just thought I was unlovable. I was an earnest, "perfect" bible study and was treated like "bird Poop!!!!!" (that's for bonnielynn...LOL)Why is it we always think we are the Only Ones? I have to get over this - I am I am, I am. *** Has anyone gone to fatherstouch.com yet? It is very good. love to all, Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
22:14:51
Comments
Copied from Just JW's @ msn, this comment, dated 7/21/02: "I was just looking at the Watchtower's website and the sentence that says "Disfellowshipping Does Not Split Up Families" has been taken out. There is also a new video there and a harder line is taken on Disfellowshipped ones. I suppose all this is in harmony with the August 2002 Kingdom." Ministry.

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
22:15:54
Comments
Adultery and Marriage to a JW Grounds for Excommunication --- http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20020719/ap_wo_en_po/egypt_copts_1 --- AP World Politics: Pope Shenouda warns Copts that marriage with Jehovah's Witnesses is ground for excommunication, divorce --- Fri Jul 19, 9:17 AM ET --- CAIRO, Egypt - The head of the Coptic Orthodox Church criticized the Jehovah's Witness faith and said a Copt's conversion to the sect was a ground for divorce, Egypt's Middle East News Agency reported on Friday. --- Pope Shenouda III said conversion to the Jehovah's Witness faith was a ground for divorce within his church. The only other ground for divorce is adultery. --- The Coptic church allows people of other Christian denominations to intermarry, but disapproves of their divorce, which still can be achieved if taken to the courts. --- Copts marrying Muslims, who make up most of Egypt's 68 million population, are also excommunicated. --- Speaking in his weekly lecture, the 78-year old patriarch said Jehovah's Witnesses have been active in Egypt for years and have grown more active recently. The faith is "independent and unrelated to all the monotheistic religions," MENA reported him as saying. --- "Jehovah's Witnesses have been rejected by all Christian groups," he added. --- Church officials and Shenouda's office staff were unavailable for comment Friday. The church is hosting a regular retreat outside Cairo. --- Shenouda has been waging a campaign against dissident groups within the church. On July 4, he excommunicated 13 clerics for contesting his authority. (sounds familiar?) The pope accused the clerics, including Deacon Atef Mikhail and a monk, of making claims they were in direct contact with God. (also sounds familiar!!!) --- The Jehovah's Witnesses, who have 6 million practicing members worldwide, is a millennialist sect that began in the United States in the 19th century. The sect mandates doorstep proselytizing and its followers routinely knock on doors and ask to talk about religion. They often offer biblical tracts and say they accept donations but do not ask for them. --- Shenouda, speaking on Wednesday, said Orthodox Copts should obey the religious leadership and principles of the 2,000-year-old church. --- Copts make up less than 10 percent of the population in Egypt, where Islam is the state religion, but the Coptic community worldwide is estimated at 27 million.

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
22:17:20
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:36:54 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Scottish news The Scottish News of the World July 21, 2002 Church ‘harbouring fiends' JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES STORM By Ken Adams SCOTS Jehovah's Witnesses are harbouring dozens of sex beasts within their ranks, the News of the World can reveal. Campaigner Bill Bowen claims that at least 40 perverts across Scotland have been allowed to evade justice because of a church cover up. The 44-year-old has been swamped with e-mails after a BBC documentary lifted the lid on the Christian fundamentalists. He said: “Concerned parents tell me the abuse is happening right now and is being covered up by church elders.” “These children need to be protected fast, yet the authorities have not been involved.” Attacked Bill, a former Jehovah's Witness elder, founded the US victim support group silentlambs, after a member of his own congregation was attacked. He told us: “I got a call from one Scot whose wife had been sexually abused as a child. Her abuser has since moved to another congregation. He has not been convicted and is free to keep abusing.” Bill, from Benton, Kentucky, added: “I urged the couple to go to the police.” The News of the World was shown some of the e-mails sent by Scots victims. One revealed: “At the age of 10 I was molested by the son of an elder.” Another victim wrote, “I was abused by my brother.” The church's sordid secrets were exposed when Alison Cousins told how she was molested by her father. The 19-year-old, of Stevenston, Ayrshire, went to cops after elders ignored her claims. Her father Ian, 43, was later jailed for five years.

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
22:30:26
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 21:58:31 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Revised Letter 7-18-02 Draffenville Body of Elders Ron Carey-chairman Dear brothers, This letter is to acknowledge your letter of July15, and your renewed interest in establishing a new judicial hearing. As you may recall my attorney sent you a letter on June 6, 2002 with clear and concise requests for information. In not answering the June 6, letter you canceled a second arranged meeting on June 28, which I readily agreed to, but you failed to confirm in anyway. Due to circumstances beyond my control I am unable to meet on July 24th. I will be happy to reschedule a date acceptable to all concerned. I noted with interest that Ron Cary from Central City has now been appointed to serve as chairman, has he moved to Draffenville? Does he represent the Draffenville Congregation for the Watchtower home office? This needs to be clarified as I am confused why Ron Cary would be involved as he lives over one and one half hours away from Draffenville. The reason for my concern in this regard is the stated instructions in the elder handbook “Pay Attention to Yourself and all the Flock” it makes this comment in that regard on page 109: “If a judicial committee is needed, elders who are present at the Kingdom Hall should determine which elders will serve on the committee and which one will be chairman. The elders will take into consideration which elders are best qualified to handle the particular type of case that has arisen. (km 9/77 pp. 5-6)” Why does Draffenville Congregation need an Assembly Overseer, Ron Cary, when they already have five elders on the “local” elder body? Did the local body of elders call Ron Cary and request him to make the long road trip from Central City? If so I would appreciate an explanation as to why this is needed or who requested Brother Cary. In the July 15, letter Ron mentioned that he wished to be treated with, “due respect...accorded to the elder who is chairing the meeting.” If find this noteworthy as a fellow elder I make the same request on my behalf. The question is, have I been treated with “due respect” since you brothers at the direction of home office have chosen to press these false allegations against me? To explain, let me share a few examples: Failing to appear or give notice for the first prearranged judicial hearing “in writing” when at great expense I was there in good faith to meet with the committee. Totally ignoring all questions asked since January of 2001 about serious actions committed against my good name in the congregation and local community. Attempting to arrange a judicial hearing with a twenty-four hour notice in an attempt to prevent my witnesses from appearing in my behalf. Attempting to arrange a judicial hearing on Wednesdays in an attempt to impede my witnesses from appearing on my behalf. Failing to appear for a second judicial hearing that my attorney notified you in writing that I was willing to appear for, but once again you failed to confirm or communicate in anyway. Harassing my family and myself, by trespassing on my property, making harassing phone calls, sending correspondence, after repeated requests for all communication to go only to my attorney. In the handbook you use to decide these matters a comment is made in this regard on page 107: “They must treat every person with impartiality at all times and desire that the spiritually ill become well again, since a failure in this regard is unjust and violates the law of love .I Tim. 5:21; Jas. 2:1-9; 5:14, 15; w77 3/1 pp. 146-52”. By the actions committed to date by you and other representatives of Watchtower, have you treated me with “due respect” and given any hope of a “fair and impartial hearing”? How in any sense am I being made to feel that you want to make me “well again” if by your actions you show denial of basic human rights? According to our own guidebook it is described as “unjust and violates the law of love”. I would like a specific answer to that question. Now it appears you want to establish a new hearing with a third chairman officiating. Since you have failed to appear on two previous meetings that were arranged in writing, what reason do I have to believe you will appear for this one? Your actions to date have proven otherwise. Therefore due to the inconvenience you have caused my witnesses and myself by your gross negligence in these matters I must request the following in accordance with “due respect”: What are the charges against me, please be specific as I am unclear what this new hearing is about. For any hearing that you wish to arrange I will require at least a two week notice from the date I receive the letter so as to arrange my schedule to be able to meet. I request than you not set the meeting for any weekday as this imposes a hardship for my witnesses to be able to appear in my behalf. Therefore I request a Saturday or Sunday meeting only. As you are aware the “Flock” book on page 110 states: “Suitable arrangements should be made as to the time and place of the hearing.” Would that not mean arrangements that are kind to the accused and his witnesses? I request that the meeting be arranged on a time table after “noon.” I request that you use no recording devices in the course of the hearing. I request that no attorneys may be present in your behalf or Watchtower. I request a basic committee of three with no observers present. According to the “Flock” book on page 109 it makes this statement: “In a complex case, a judicial committee need not be limited to three members; it may warrant having four or even five experienced elders serve.” As this is a simple case of false allegations it would not appear to be to complex for three elders to handle. If you plan to have more than three elders present, I wish to be informed in advance and the basis for that decision. If you fail to do this and upon my arrival, there are more than three on the committee, I will certainly consider that a lack of “due respect” for not informing me ahead of time what to expect. My witnesses have asked that I act as an agent on their behalf, therefore I request a check in the amount of $2, 945.25 to be sent to silentlambs to assist with travel expenses for my witnesses to return for the new hearing to bear testimony in my behalf. I am sure you brothers understand the difference between “witnesses” and “observers” at a judicial hearing. The “Flock” Book on page 110 states: “If the accused wishes to bring witnesses who can speak in his defense regarding the matter, he may do so.” Page 119: “The accused may also present witnesses whose testimony would have a bearing on the case.” To this point you have denied my witnesses their right to testify according to instructions in our procedural manual by your actions of not appearing at two “arranged” hearings in writing. In addition, your repeated attempt to create a schedule that makes it impossible for them to appear certainly puts forth the appearance of being partial, “unjust and violating the law of love.” I request that ALL COMMUNICATION go through my attorney. It is no doubt at the advice of Watchtower Legal you have chosen to ignore my repeated demands in this regard, but regardless you must STOP HARASSING me. If you do not I will be forced to look to “Caesar” for redress in this regard. I am saddened to have to make the above requests but your actions have had the affect of “beating your brothers” by harassing my family, arranging judicial meetings which are stressful to face, and not making appearance, inconveniencing survivors of abuse who traveled great distances to meet with you and provide testimony. In his February 7, 2002 letter to Richard Greenberg of Dateline, JR Brown made this statement: “We therefore do not view them as adversaries, but as individuals whose views and opinions should be heard within the framework of the congregation, or church, and not in front of a nationwide television audience. Our Governing Body is willing to resolve differences of opinion within the framework of the congregation and according to scriptural principles.” So is this the way “our Governing Body resolves differences of opinion”? They send out-of- town elders to establish a judicial committee with false allegations and disfellowship all who appeared on the program? Does this not confirm exactly the allegation I have made since day one, that is, when victims of abuse speak up they are silenced with the threat of disfellowshipping? Is it not the cowardly course to disfellowship brothers and sisters in back rooms rather than face legitimate allegations in a public forum? It seems “our Governing Body” is perfectly willing to authorize JR Brown of Watchtower Public Information to slander those who appeared on Dateline by stating they were being disfellowshipped for “other sins” not related to speaking out on child abuse to nationwide newspapers. Could it be that “our Governing Body” lied to JR Brown and Richard Greenberg? Could they be lying to you? I know the questions above are troubling as they have troubled me greatly over the course of the last year. It is for that reason I have requested to have a meeting with the Governing Body “within the framework of the congregation and according to scriptural principles” on September 27th of this year. Since they and the Service Committee are well aware of my request to meet with them in a FED-Xed letter dated June 6, 2002, why are they authorizing you to have a judicial hearing? You might want to ask them that question. Would it not make better sense to resolve our differences at that time? On the other hand if you are aware of my meeting with the Governing Body, then I would welcome an explanation for the inconsistency of your actions. According to instructions in the “Flock” book, on page 110: “If the accused repeatedly fails to come to the hearing the committee will proceed with the hearing but will not make a decision until evidence and any testimony by witnesses have been considered.” To date you have refused to meet with me with conduct unkind and unloving to my “witnesses”. In your last letter you failed to inform me of what the “new” charges were since a “new” committee has been formed with a “new” chairman. How can I appear before a judicial committee when I am not informed of the charges against me? The “Flock” book also states on page 118 under the heading, “Before forming a judicial committee”: “A person who becomes a witness to a serious sin should encourage the wrongdoer to report the matter to the elders. He may encourage the wrongdoer to seek help from the elders and confess; and if the wrongdoer does not do so, the witness will then inform the elders. (w85 11/15 pp.19-21) If there is no response from the accused, two elders would attempt to discuss the matter with him. If he denies wrongdoing, so that it is only one brother's word against another's, leave the matter in Jehovah's hands. (1 Tim. 5:19, 24, 25)” To date, no person has confronted me with any actions of “wrongdoing” or even suggested in anyway I have broken God's Laws, no elders have spoken to me about any so called “witness” who is bringing charges against me. I deny ANY wrongdoing, faced no witness, faced no accusation, according to procedural guidelines, why has a judicial committee been established without following directives of the “Flock” book? It is also started in the “Flock” book on page 109: “Before forming a judicial committee, elders determine if the accusation has substance...'There must be either two eye-witnesses or a confession of wrongdoing.” As I am totally unaware of ANY law of Jehovah that I may have broken, are you brothers going to provide eye-witnesses to establish my supposed wrongdoing? Are you brothers going to serve as eye-witnesses against me? If so, how can you be an impartial judge and testify against the accused? If there are no additional eye-witnesses and I am denying all allegations, why are we not “leaving the matter in Jehovah's hands?” Are you brothers willing to “wait on Jehovah” or could you presumptuously be moving ahead of God's arrangement? Or does the directive to “wait on Jehovah” only apply in the case of child molesters? I realize you brothers are “caught in the middle” so to speak, but I would encourage you to think seriously about pressing this matter at this time. I am willing to meet and am traveling to Brooklyn, New York as an evidence of my sincerity in wanting these matters settled. I will be glad to meet with you, I simply request “due respect” as you have failed miserably in that regard up to this point. Think about these things brothers as many children will either benefit or suffer from the actions you choose to take. As the “Flock” book states: Elders called upon to care for this responsibility must exercise heavenly wisdom, have good judgment, and be impartial. (Deut. 1:13, 16-18) A sound knowledge of Jehovah's righteous laws and principles is necessary.(Ps. 19:7-11) They must weigh matters carefully, realizing that certain factors make situations differ from one another. Instead of looking for rigid rules for guidance, elders should think in terms of principles; judge each case on its own merits. Before handling a judicial case, elders should carefully review Units 5(a), 5(b), and 5(c). They may also need to do research in the Society's publications and recent correspondence from the Society to find information that may apply or be helpful. Elders can be confident that with accurate knowledge, with experience and discernment, and with the help of God's spirit, they can judge in righteousness, wisdom, and mercy. I encourage you brothers to consider these matters carefully and make a decision that will benefit the flock. As fellow elders is that not what we are required to do? I await your quick response to this letter and send my warm Christian love. Very Truly Yours, William H. Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
22:34:01
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 21 Jul 2002 17:58:06 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: wolves among sheep Wolves Among Sheep by JAMES KOSTELNIUK Here is the author's own true story, in riveting detail and with poignant sensitivity, about the senseless brutal murder of his children and former wife, Kim, by her estranged second husband, all Jehovah's Witnesses. Kostelniuk, himself a second-generation Witness, had been banned from visitation with his children for leaving their religion. From the inside flap of the book jacket, we quote: "Wolves Among Sheep is unlike any book you have read--or are likely to read again. It is written by the person most affected by the deaths of these two innocent children and their mother--their father and Kim's first husband, James Kostelniuk. Compelled to write the book as an expression of sorrow and love for the family so cruelly taken from him, Kostelniuk also had a deep need to arrive at some understanding of why these senseless murders took place. This question led him to expose the influence of the Jehovah's Witness organization that wielded total control over Kim's life, as it had over himself until he found the resolve to break with the organization. In making that break, Kostelniuk knew he would be forever shunned by the Witness community and, according to its laws, forbidden contact with his own wife and children. The convicted killer, Jeff Anderson, was also a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses. In a bizarre turn of events, Anderson began to correspond with Kostelniuk from prison, and his correspondence provides a chilling look into the mind of a murderer who held back a terrible secret from the world. The Canadian criminal justice system will offer Jeff Anderson the opportunity of a faint-hope hearing for early parole from his 25-year prison sentence. Where, James Kostelniuk asks, is the justice for Juri, Lindsay and Kim? Jeff Anderson confesses in the book that he molested the little girl. If Watchtower had a policy of reporting abuse (the earlier spousal abuse) they would still be alive today.

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
22:40:13
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< http://www.aim.org/publications/media_monitor/2002/07/11.html> --- Another Pedophile Scandal By Reed Irvine and Cliff Kincaid July 11, 2002 --- Coverage continues of pedophile allegations and cover-ups by Catholic priests and bishops. But what if the founder of a major religion was a pedophile? Baptist preacher Jerry Vines, a former president of the Southern Baptist Convention, ignited a firestorm in the media with his claim that, "Islam was founded by Muhammad, a demon-possessed pedophile who had 12 wives, the last one of which was a 9-year-old girl." American Muslim groups have cried foul, and the Anti-Defamation League, a Jewish group, issued a protest. Commentator William Rivers Pitt has said, "Imagine if someone called Jesus Christ a Demon-possessed‚ individual who consorted with known whores." At the very end of a long story about this controversy, the Washington Post noted that an Islamic holy book says that, "The Prophet [Muhammad] married [Aisha] when she was six years old and he consummated his marriage when she was nine years old." The literal words say that he had sex with a nine year old girl. The Post quoted Ibrahim Hooper, spokesman for the Council on American-Islamic Relations, as saying that many Islamic scholars interpret that passage to mean Aisha was 16 when she was betrothed to Muhammad and 19 when they wed. By contrast, Myles Kantor, a columnist for FrontPage Magazine, says that Vines‚ description "is theologically and historically grounded." Regarding the charge of pedophilia, he said, "one of Muhammad‚s wives was betrothed to him at six years old. The marriage was consummated when she was nine. Enough said." Demons were frequently cited as the cause of mental or physical afflictions in the days when people didn't understand science or medicine. But in regard to the counter-claim of Jesus consorting with prostitutes, such a statement ignores his condemnation of prostitution and his attempts to convert them. On the other hand, the statement about Muhammad having sex with a nine year old girl can only be re-interpreted by completely changing the words and their meaning. "We don't understand why this is a controversy," Dr. Ergun Caner told the Dallas Morning News. He claimed the statement is "in Islam's teaching ˆ something we were taught as children." Dr. Caner, who was born a Muslim, is the co-author of the book, "Unveiling Islam: An Insider's Look at Muslim Life and Beliefs." On CNN‚s Crossfire, Tucker Carlson asked Hussein Ibish of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee, "Did Muhammad have a nine-year-old wife?" Ibish replied, "I have no idea and neither does anybody else. To be honest with you, that happened 1,500 years ago. Much of this is mythological ... It's not the point." Carlson asked, "Do Muslim scholars believe it to be true? Ibish replied, "Actually, I have no idea about whom the prophet married, and when, and why -- and it doesn't matter. The point is that this is part and parcel of a generalized attack on Islam and Muslims<sum>." It may be part of an attack on Muslims but that begs the question of whether the statement is true or not. If the Catholics should be held accountable for pedophiles in their midst, the Muslims should too, even if it is their founder. Reed Irvine can be reached at ri@aim.org

Remote User:
Date:
21 Jul 2002
Time:
23:19:38
Comments
Hi again, I received the e-mail about James K book "Wolves among Sheep." It so excellently portrays the way the Society and local congregation treats wife abuse, child abuse and the way James K was treated. It is so honest. It was a tragedy that could have been avoided had the WTS had supported the victims... My deepest sympathy go out to him and his second, for their loss. I have read the his book. I recommend it others. DJB

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
00:51:40
Comments
I am so upset as to what you have brought to light. and at the same time please, my love for Jehovah will always be. thank you brother Patrick Ayling UK Guildford Surrey patgeoa@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
01:14:01
Comments
From "Traditional Values Coalition" Weekly News: Vol. 5, Issue 29, July 19, 2002 -- Secret Jehovah's Witnesses File Protects Pedophiles -- The British Broadcasting Company (BBC) reported this week that the Jehovah's Witnesses maintain a confidential list of child molesters but do not report these molestations to police. Bill Bowen, a former JW for 20 years, says the church has 23,720 abusers on the list—and that they're being protected by the system. -- According to JW policy, allegations of child molestation must be reported to the JW's legal desk. Action can be taken only if there are two witnesses to the crime or if the perpetrator confesses. Bowen, resigned as an elder in Kentucky in 2000 to protest the church's cover up. According to Bowen, “These men remain anonymous to anyone outside the organization and anyone really inside the organization unless you are personally reporting the matter.” -- For more on this controversial policy, go to Bill Bowen's web site <http://www.silentlambs.org> at: http://www.silentlambs.org You can also access Survivors and Victims Empowered <http://child-abuse.com/SAVE/home.html> , a ministry to child molestation victims

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
02:24:35
Comments
To SLC, Thanks for the encouragement. Also, there is a program called Paltalk, it is a free download, we could all meet in there one night and brainstorm some campaign ideas, if you would like. It is a voice chat program. I really like the lambs idea too, still trying to figure out what to attach to it though. You have any ideas? Let me know about the Paltalk thing, if you do download it, look for me under the name Missy1225 Again thanks for the encouragement. I am not going to sit on this one. It has to be stopped. Love, Barb

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
02:50:36
Comments
OK, let me tell you something here. My x husband was a murderer, OK? All I know is that it was advised that he turn his self in & settle the matter before taking steps toward the truth. There was no question about it. For that matter, I don't believe that ANYONE of Jehovah's witnesses would condone the sexual molestation of a child. I mean, you've got to be kidding ... and what if this did happen? Take your case up with the individual that is accused. I mean are you guys trying to say that this is a common practice amongst the witnesses or something? I realize what a horrible, horrible thing this for a child & a betrayal at that, but please this is not the custom of the witnesses ... unlike the Catholics. I know that for a FACT because as an UNBAPTIZED person I was disassociated more that once for fornication. Sexual immorality is SO not tolerated. COME ON! The witnesses are an not some evil sect! It's the act of an individual we are talking about here & it is a very serious matter. However I defend the society & condemn the loathsome act of the individual.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
06:46:22
Comments
I co/host an ex JW room,and have found that the JW's who do come in are in complete denial and blinkered to exactly what the organization is.My heart goes out to the elderly ones who have given all or most their lives to what they think is Gods organization on earth...also the little ones who haven't any choice as they are being bought up by JW parents who are being brainwashed by a publishing consortium>> WT,who profess to be mediator to God thus taking away the deity from Christ,1Timothy2:5.This site is doing a wonderful job, exposing this CULT for what it is(Truth shall prevail) no matter how they try to cover up, its out now!! and the world will see the WT bought to its knees, if Bill Bowen scores a success in the courts of law it will open the flood gates for all the other abused victims to demand recompense for the pain they have suffered at the hands of these so called *chosen ones* LOL. I LOOK FORWARD TO THAT DAY...when the very wealthy WT has to open its purse strings.We will see how Jehovah looks after them then. Until that day arrives, keep the pressure on these criminals, who send unpaid slaves door to door..by dangling the carrot of salvation in front of their noses>>>*as if its theirs to give or take away* gal 2:16...well done Bill Bowen and all concerned with this site..PinkCloud

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
07:30:13
Comments
RE: The ritual abuse site. Makes me wonder if 'playing around' with very young children mentally is purposeful. Like perhaps, some (monstrous) people are fascinated with their own ability to induce dissociation and other 'intriguing' mental results (that have the added benefit of leaving them 'blameless')...I, for one, often felt like a 'science experiment'. Like my abuser 'just wanted to see what would happen' if he did this and this and this.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
08:11:00
Comments
FYI - Another new book of interest to ex-JW's: "Why is It Always About You?; Saving Yourself from the Narcissists in You Life" by Hotchkiss...helpfulk insights into into the self-centered, cold-hearted 'core' of parents (and others) who make their children (and others) feel like they don't even exist, like they are 'invisible'. God bless your healing journey.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
08:20:52
Comments
This whole coverup situation is not any different than anything else the Watchtower does. They have presented themselves as being so much above everything and everyone else (right down to adopting the name "Truth" for themselves). They do not and will not accept publicly that they are wrong unless it is so blatant. This is why to acknowledge perverts can be Jehovah's Witness in good standing would look bad on them. They do coverups about their teachings that don't come true, their bible translation that doesn't have even one qualified person behind it and coverups with half truths when they are caught being a NGO (Non government organization) upholding the values of the United Nations. Well you old farts, you can fool some of the people some of the time.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
08:31:06
Comments
Claudine, LOL, to funny! I don't think I found you on my finger yet so you must NOT be! HI Pink! its me fursie! Nice to see your post! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
08:45:08
Comments
Hi Sheila, This is the site to 'vent' it seems! All of us have at one time or another, it is nice to know that their are people out in the cold cruel world that have lived the lives we have! I do know that at times my 'spirit' seems to have been around forever, and it gets so tired. We all need 'us' to share hurts, ideas, and pain. To allow others, even faceless others to 'get to know us' the real us is a wonderful thing. It not only helps us but also allows others to show compassion! I know that I appreciate that! And from the posts that I have read a lot of others appreciate giving and receiving! You are NOT alone! Never have been really, but at least you and I can see that there are a lot of 'us'es out there! :-) bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
09:55:53
Comments
Regarding the comment Take your case up with the individual that is accused. Please, I am sure that the families and even the child that is abused is in 'the frame of mind' to take the case up with the accused. I will say that if it happened to my child, I would NOT be able to face the accuser except in a court of law. You must not ever been in the 'victims' shoes or you would understand. Some of these victim survivors are forced to stay in the abused home, stay married to the abuser, sit next to the abuser in the congregation, sit there and listen to the abuser spouting off bible scriptures and teaching 'how to be righteous'! GOD forbid you ever have to deal with this yourself, I would never want that to happen. But, until you do... Keep in mind that the abuser is NOT only abusing their 'victims' bodies, they are also 'beating down' their spirits WITH THE HELP OF YOUR SUPPORTED ORG! Who gives ANYONE that right? treat your neighbor as you would want to be treated. Would YOU want to actually 'face' a person who has touched YOUR child as a perv does? Would YOU want to let the org. tell you that it's best to 'leave it in Jehovah's name' and explain to YOUR child why they have to even look at their abuser since that child didn't have the required two or more witnesses? WOULD YOU BE ABLE TO LIVE WITH THAT? Think carefully before answering, in case later on YOU have NEW LIGHT and have to change YOUR thinking. Go ahead and support anything, be it made of wood or stone as you wish, you do have that right, man gave you that. BLM

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
09:57:35
Comments
ooops typo, should read 'leave it in Jehovah's hands' sorry for the silly keyboard...again LOL BLM

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
10:07:19
Comments
TO SLC!!!!!! Hey this is Jesika Thoman. I need your help!!!!! I was writing a women who left her email address here. I lost the address and now it is gone with all the other posts. Since you keep tabs on almost everything here, I was wondering if maybe you had it. I was something like K2play. I am sure about the K2 part but can't remember the rest. I had too much email and erased everything without saving the address (stupid me!!!). I really need to get in contact with her. Can you or anyone else help? It was posted when all the JW's were throwing a fit after panorama. The same day ukgirl posted!!! Anyone remember? Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
11:19:48
Comments
I was a silentlamb before the JW got me. I can only tell you it went worse after they got into my life. It has been 20 years of HELL. IT is almost 3 years that I have been kicked out. Now trying to help others to open their eyes and continue to recover from my own pain and sorrows. LOLA , mother of VE9GRA.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
12:27:14
Comments
Regarding "Wolves among Sheep" - I have been saying that the good men need to take back their families from the elders and WTS. People cannot let Elders, or the WTS be the head of household- especially a woman alone. *** This looking to the WTS for direction has opened the door to much wickedness. The shunning ruins families - and family is the foundation of human civilization. This "crap" about two witnesses has ruined families. This tolerance for abuse has ruined families. ALL THE WHILE YOU GET "stories" in the AWAKE how the "truth" saves and mends families. The holding out of this fantasy of a healed family like a carrot while the reality is different. *** So you have WTS destroying families from both ends - with their tolerance for wicked abuse and on the other hand they control the heads of household of the weak but good men and women. And God Bless a strong good man who says no more WTS - he looses his family. But they portray a "family" lifestyle -on the surface while undermining the head of household at every turn. We are all to be pitied - including me for being so "tossed about" by the world and then when you think you have found refuge from the world, you only find it was an illusion to cling to out of despair. It is nothing different than the "world" offers. Confusion, hypocrisy, back biting, one-up-manship, class distinction, competition, bullies, hidden agendas, manipulation, deceit, guilt trips, lack of character, courage and conscience in the name of God or not what is the difference? *** What does this have to do with God the Almighty and me worshipping Him? Every thought that is devoted to chaos is a thought that should have been given to God. There is a lot of energy (spirit?)that is being taken away what rightfully belongs to our Father in Heaven. If the burden is heavy than it is not of God. Remember that song that said if you can't run your own life...I will be damned if you'll run (ruin) mine? God does not ruin families, people, or children lives - only the wicked do that. Love from Soap Box

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
13:35:18
Comments
Hey bonnielynn -exactly! I would not even want a pedophile to look at a picture of my babies!!! Not to mention be in the same room...let alone worship with them. May God forgive me, but I would hope that a repentant pedophile would not expect me to "embrace" him/her in any way, shape or form. I owe this to my children, and my grandchildren to all children. Our "love" for our neighbor is that we keep the 10 commands - so I don't murder the pervert and that is as much "love" as they are going to get from me!!!! Love, Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
13:56:29
Comments
THE MADNESS AND FILTH AMONG JEHOVAH'S'S WITNESSES: BECAUSE THEY REMOVED THE "RESTRAINERS". In their madness, now plain for all to see (2 Tim 3:9 NWT), the organization calling themselves Jehovah's Witnesses has been sheltering thousands of incestuous men. Inside sources reveal that there are 23,732 cases of child molestation on file at JW headquarters in Patterson, New York. And yet, they disfellowship faithful men for obeying the Holy Scriptures; ostracizing some for revealing the incestuous filth among JWs, or disassociating themselves from them over trivial matters. But repeatedly, they refuse to help the suffering children being physically tormented by their sexually abusive fathers, many of whom are still acting as elders. Some of these Pedophiles have been caught and are serving long prison sentences. Why aren't those that conceal these abusers also being put in prison? (in accordance with the JW claim that they obey the "superior authorities" of Romans 13:1 NWT). Concerning this matter, what did The Christ teach the apostle Paul: "I actually hear reports of sexual immorality among you, immorality such as even pagans do not tolerate: the union of a man with his father's wife. And you can still be proud of yourselves! You ought to have gone into mourning; a man who has done such a deed should have been rooted out of your company." (1Corinthians 5:1,2 NEB). How much worse is it, for a man to fornicate with his own child, or the child of another family? When asked about this, a member of the governing body of JWs, Ted Jarrett, replied: "We do not go beyond the things written". May The Lord God punish that man. Some elders of the governing body of JWs officiating over thousands in congregations worldwide are confessed homosexuals. (Romans 1:26,27,32). They even adopt the policy of sending their homosexual and incestuous men to serve in other congregations! As was revealed in an instructive letter from the governing body to their elders: 'If it is known you are a PAEDOPHILE, you can't serve as an elder; but if it isn't known, you can.' Their letter of March 14th 1997 to all their elders in the US actually gives guidelines as to what to do with child abusers who move to another congregation. It even states that it is possible for a former abuser to serve as an elder, ministerial servant or pioneer"! SHOCKING! They should be locked up! After reading reams of information written by ex-JWs about how the governing body of JWs shelter child molesters, and the sexual abuse perpetrated by their JW elders, I have not found one true explanation for the wickedness among JW elders. So, I will reveal the real reason why this madness has come about: During the period designated by our Lord as the "appointed times of the nations" during the "time of the end" (the end of the "good news" of salvation by means of The Christ. See Rev 10:7), the mysterious "man of lawlessness" (2 Thess 2:3 NWT) or "wickedness in human form" (NEB) began to be "revealed", and was when they quickly removed the "restraint". (2 Thess 2:6-8). According to the 1975 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, their "shifting" and "trampling" of anointed ones (their "restrainers") worldwide began in 1971, and was completed by 1982. Their revealing is described in detail 2 Thessalonians 2:1-12. The removal of anointed ones was carried out by this composite "man of lawlessness" made up of many self-appointed wicked men "in human form"; namely, the so-called elders of the sect of Jehovah's Witnesses, who should not now be considered mysterious to anyone. The Lord's "restrainers" (and some of us are still living) are those whom God anointed and sealed with the Holy Spirit. When we were removed, God let an "operation of error go to them"; namely, to these self-appointed elders of JWs who had usurped the congregations of anointed ones, so that the usurpers would get to "believing THE LIE". (2 Thess 2:11,12 NWT). THE LIE was their excuse for usurping God's anointed ones, and is the way they lifted themselves up above the authority of God. All those who "trampled" upon anointed ones are now abandoned souls. Nothing can be done for them. As to those who still search houses for converts, they are looking for those they can make like themselves: Ruined ones, according to Satan's disposition. (Matthew 23:15). For a more comprehensive explanation, go to the website of The Opened "Little Scroll" at: www.littlescroll.supanet.com under the headings: 'Jehovah's Witnesses' and 'Man of Lawlessness' in the Subject Index. R. Thomas. anointed.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
14:13:20
Comments
And women. Don't forget it's not just fathers who abuse.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
16:32:26
Comments
Bill- In regards to your attempt to contact me, I wish to apologize. Please try again, or leave a contact phone# so I can get back to you. My concern, like yours, is to contribute as much truthful info as possible to the interested public, especially harmed JWS. Thanks for any privilege,I remain yours, Larry Larson @larrylarson427@hotline.com on the M S N .com website

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
17:22:59
Comments
My friend thinks I'm nuts because I cannot receive anything past May 02 Part 2. There is no June or July on my PC WHY?

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
17:28:06
Comments
To everyone that wrote regarding my "venting", thanks. We have always felt "alone" unless of course they needed my husband to work on their car or something. We had two small babies and NEVER received help at all, there were so many times we at Lentils (beans) and sauce but if someone came into the congregation professing to be pioneers. They would open the storehouses, I remember one "con" family that took the congregation in Cabool for everything clothes, a place to live and one of the ELDERS gave YES GAVE them a car. They were strangers and received more love in the few short months they took them for everything than we did in the four years we stayed after marrying (1984). My husband and lived there since 1977 or so and he was shunned, I actually think because he was so "good" always striving to do the "right" thing. We barely even kissed as I've said before we married and yet they acted as if we were fornicating in their midst. LOL We later found EVERYONE else that threw stones were the guilty ones LOL So yes I have a lot of pain and self doubt I was just cleaning my family room and saw and old "greatest Man" book and I got nauseated, sad isn't it. My son is now a Presbyterian at 17 and he is such a kind hearted little monster LOL Teenager ya know LOL He still hates the way we were treated, both of my children are scarred from the looks and words of their supposed brothers. Some brothers we dressed and acted as they did, but the cliques are many and the pain is immense. For those that claim it's just ONE or TWO congregations WE HAVE BEEN in FOUR in 18 years and visited some all over the country they are all the same. The blind leading the blind... Thanks again sorry I got off on venting again but I feel so much better knowing we aren't alone. I feel so guilty raising my children in such a judgmental environment, funny that we have been out of the "TRUTH" since 1995 and my kids have done so much better the families that looked down on them. We never had problems with drugs,sex or alcohol hmmm maybe LOVE is the reason, we LOVE our children and that has made all the difference. Nufff venting for now love to everyone, even those still stumbling in the dark Sheila Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
18:29:07
Comments
Hi Barb! What could we attache to Silent Lambs? The WT Society deceived all of us intentionally. They spent our lives on worthless pursuits. They tricked us into slavery. We should demand compensation for loss of income. Broken pro misses False prophecy Alienation of affection from our families, Lost Properties Broken marriages Murder There is nothing that the WT does that is not deadly for all involved! Why don't we call it: WATCHTOWER CULT VICTIMS. That's all of us so all can sue! Thousands will participate and the WT will die!Our loved ones will be freed! We should sue the WT Governing Body in a United Way as Group.It would be easier financially if we do it together. We should try that first together Canada and USA. Let's find another Bill Bowen among us. There are some Bill Bowen out there and they will come forward when God's Spirit prompts them to do so.But we must make the call. This is God's will. This will be done. As a group we would be able to lunch effective attack on these dishonest leaders of the WT the enemies of our Lord Jesus Christ and us personally. To Bill: You will be rewarded with total success and God's blessing and should be emulated by all of us. RMNK

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
18:48:09
Comments
Ohh the stories... On a brighter note, ten years after separating myself from the Witnesses I can finally see what control they had over me. I was raised as a Witness so I can't relate to how emotionally needy a person must be to willingly become associated with such a bunch of losers. Fortunately, my parents left the "truth" about the same time I did- and they are embarrassed to admit they ever got involved with the cult(not to mention exposing their children to a bunch of known alcoholic pedophiles). -Conk

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
19:06:51
Comments
I am not a witness or religious in any way. I have never been abused. I am married to a wonderful lady who left the 'TRUTH' a long time ago It has been a struggle because of her family's prejudices and that of my own family. However i do understand the power of the truth and why it's members feel they cannot talk to outsiders. I just hope they can find the courage to do what they feel is right

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
19:49:18
Comments
Hi Barb! You asked what could we put besides Silent Lambs? How about WATCHTOWER VICTIMS? We could all participate in that because we were all hurt by the WT. We should sue them for compensation as a group which would be easier than alone. We need another Bill Bowen to come forward to lead us. Let us ask the Holy Spirit to prompt such person to come forward and speed up the work of liberation of our loved ones that are still in the clutches of the WT's False Prophet! RMNK We could sue the WT for: Broken promises Broken marriages Alienation of love of family members Slavery Murder etc. Basically all that the WT is harmful. We should try that first in North America. I feel that the Lord wants that to happen and we will meet with success. We want compensation. This will devastate the Wise and Discrete Slaves and their fortunes. And, don't they deserve that?

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
20:02:08
Comments
Why is the Chatroom always empty?

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
20:17:07
Comments
" We need another Bill Bowen to come forward to lead us." How pathetic. Oh, I forgot it's good to be sheep.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
23:04:56
Comments
The Watchtower dissolved my family. And for what? For a bunch old men (governing body) who think they are the next in line to Jesus then Jehovah. Better sit down. You dishonor with your lies and arrogance.

Remote User:
Date:
22 Jul 2002
Time:
23:59:42
Comments
Hi again, With all the repostings it is hard to read all the new postings. I have an old computer that is slow...but I try to keep up.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
00:38:17
Comments
Thanks to the webmaster of this site for separating June and July...jazbug 55

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
05:56:18
Comments
Really appreciate the work you are doing for the world of victims in the WTS. Others as well are receiving healing from abuse. Keep up this fine work for all of us silent lambs. God richly bless you and yours, peanutoo1@aol.com and my friend qjones007@aol.com Tina Lemons and Ellen Chapman

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
06:49:42
Comments
Anyone from the Chicago area? Just curious.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
07:17:36
Comments
RE: - the notice that Parliament's Helen Clark has 'tabled the motion' for the MP to investigate JW child abuse (following the BBC's Panorama program)...The term 'table' means that she has set it aside, postponed it. She put it in her 'to-do' pile (which sometimes they get to and sometimes they don't). But she decided to not deal with it at that time (on the day of the latest press release you read). --- I don't know what this means about what IS happening there, but I just wanted to clarify the terminology for you so that you would understand what it does and does not mean. --- I hope Helen receives a LOT of support and encouragement to get in there and deal with this issue and not just 'let it slide'. Speak up! And stand by her. JWs have a long internal history of just 'not getting involved', standing back 'blameless' and letting everything work itself out - without our efforts, support or 'involvement'. Didn't the WTS give us good training in how to guiltlessly reap the 'goodies' while taking none of the responsibility. --- I know we all want to get past that and stand up for some things. Well...the time is here.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
07:19:25
Comments
RE: - the notice that Parliament's Helen Clark has 'tabled the motion' for the MP to investigate JW child abuse (following the BBC's Panorama program)...The term 'table' means that she has set it aside, postponed it. She put it in her 'to-do' pile (which sometimes they get to and sometimes they don't). But she decided to not deal with it at that time (on the day of the latest press release you read). --- I don't know what this means about what IS happening there, but I just wanted to clarify the terminology for you so that you would understand what it does and does not mean. --- I hope Helen receives a LOT of support and encouragement to get in there and deal with this issue and not just 'let it slide'. Speak up! And stand by her. JWs have a long internal history of just 'not getting involved', standing back 'blameless' and letting everything work itself out - without our efforts, support or 'involvement'. Didn't the WTS give us good training in how to guiltlessly reap the 'goodies' while taking none of the responsibility? --- I know we all want to get past that and stand up for some things. Especially now, when those 'things' are so crucial. Well...the time is here.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
07:31:56
Comments
Reading about the dying teen from Canada (who has now 'escaped' with her mother) brings back miserable memories of when my own brother was dying from leukemia. --- EVERYTHING was about the 'blood issue'. There was no love, no family support, no 'normal' behavior associated with a terrible family tragedy. He died in a horrible, lonely place where his parents and doctors and nurses could not stop fighting for one single moment to actually NOTICE him. And the rest of the family? Our job, I guess, was to 'choose sides'. The only love and support he encountered was from the hospital staff. God bless them for being there. His family sure wasn't. I feel so sad for this Canadian teen. I wish there was something I could do. Pass it on, if you get the chance...I'm praying for her.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
08:27:33
Comments
DITTO to this: Thanks to the webmaster of this site for separating June and July...jazbug 55

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
08:27:38
Comments
DITTO to this: Thanks to the webmaster of this site for separating June and July...jazbug 55

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
08:32:10
Comments
Oh, quit your belly-achin! Lots of people have old slow computers. And with approximately 10-11 days worth of posts being lost in cyberspace, I wish MORE people could remember/repost ALL of what was lost. Geez. Just what we need is complaints that SOME of the posts were put back! ========== 22 Jul 2002 Time: 23:59:42 Comments Hi again, With all the repostings it is hard to read all the new postings. I have an old computer that is slow...but I try to keep up.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
10:03:58
Comments
Hi Alison! Welcome to Mr. Bowen's and the lambs site! You were very brave to go on Panorama! I am so sorry for what you had to 'deal' with, not only from your own parent but from the Watchtower government! You are NOT alone in this! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
10:06:14
Comments
Regarding comments = Oh, quit your belly-achin! Just what we need is complaints that SOME of the posts were put back! = someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed? :-) bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
10:10:37
Comments
someone wake up on the wrong side of the bed? :-) bonnielynn === Yes, THIS person, the one who wrote complaining about the repostings, 22 Jul 2002 Time: 23:59:42 Comments Hi again, With all the repostings it is hard to read all the new postings. I have an old computer that is slow...but I try to keep up.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
10:18:02
Comments
Hi I tried to post a message yesterday. Then I sent another success as well. Than I noticed that many months of messages are missing on this page. Who is sabotaging us? RMNK

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
10:40:05
Comments
RMNK - I think in earlier months the same thing happened. It's a glitch in the cyber world I guess. There are to many good posts to think someone hacked and erased. Anyone wanting to chat, there is a JW recovery room in msn chat, a lot of nice people, funny too! All are welcome! It is NOT a JW chat room though, so keep that in mind.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
10:43:09
Comments
To Barb. Hi Maybe we should add WATCHTOWER VICTIMS to Silentlambs. Most of us are wt victims. In this section we could post all our grievances with the WT and sue the GB and the local Elders for what they have done to us. For example: Unfulfilled Promises Slavery Murder Broken families just to mention a few. We should organize and take a CLASS ACTION SUIT against the Society. We need a leader as W. Bowen. Is there somebody to step forward? This is a mission where the Lord is revealing His own enemies. This is the outcry of hundred of thousands. I am one of those that lost his family and all I owned. I slaved for the WT for 25 years and than they kicked me out on false accusation of my wife! I want to be compensated. Why should we just forget? The WT has gotten very fat on our backs. RMNK RMNK

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
10:44:27
Comments
JEHOVAH'S'S WITNESS CHILD SEX ABUSE ... Helen Clark Member of Parliament for Peterborough CALLS FOR INQUIRY ... Try this for more info, including her email . . . http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32396&site=3

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
11:18:28
Comments
In response to, JULY23 TIME 06:49:42 I'm not to far from CHICAGO,about 2& 1/2 hours south.Feel free to e-mail me if you would like.I'm sure we have some things, in common!!! JESSIE JAMES 1862@AOL.COM

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
11:19:03
Comments
From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Mon, 22 Jul 2002 23:51:56 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: FW: Aussie Reporter The following was sent to me tonight, for any who can bring stories to her please assist. Regards, bill Dear Mr Bowen, My name is Kirstine Lumb and I work for the Sunday Program, Channel Nine, in Sydney Australia. Our program is one of the top public affairs programs in Australia. I have been interested by the recent program done by the BBC on child abuse within the Jehovah's Witness Church. I would like to follow up with some research into the JW Church in Australia and whether similar instances have occurred. I was hoping you may be able to assist me in getting in touch with some disaffected church elders or perhaps victims or victim support groups in Australia. If you have any information you feel I would find valuable, I would be greatly appreciative. Thank you for you time and I look forward to hearing from you. Kirstine Lumb Kirstine Lumb Sunday Nine Network Australia P.O. Box 27 Willoughby 2068 NSW Australia Ph: +61 2 9965 2477 Fx: +61 2 9965 2487 e-mail: klumb@nine.com.au www.ninemsn.com.au/sunday

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
11:48:51
Comments
Thank you to whoever gave us the link to the letter from Helen Clark - I had not seen it before. Sister Cousins appearance on Panorama is to be commended for her courage and strength, and also the other young woman who came forward. This program would have had no impact without them!!!!CLAP CLAP CLAP...the rights of children in the KH's have been taken away for years in "free" countries and now maybe Helen Clark can change this situation to paraphrase her words " to afford the witness children the same protection as any other child in society." Amen...love Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
13:21:30
Comments
We have not heard for Sequila (sp?) lately...hope you are okay. I miss your posts! I bought a lovely painting of woman fishing in a boat on a pond and thought of Sequila out fishing. You had recommended Braveheart as a good movie to watch - well I had a terrible time watching it and finally had to turn it off. BUT>>>>the image of the clansmen lifting their kilts before battle, made me laugh and laugh. When I think about it I laugh out loud. I sort of think of silentlambs standing before the battle lines, lifting their skirts/kilts with this web site and getting ready to do battle with the unjust & oppressive enemy. It is symbolic and exposing the most vulnerable parts of the being with bravery and courage, and a sense of humor. Love, Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
14:43:24
Comments
Is it pathetic to have a leader? I don't think so. No Orchestra can exist without a capable Conductor. No instrument can be played without a player.Do you want a chaotic mass of individuals crying for help everywhere? Next time you have something to say sound your horn in the end please so we can honk back to you. We must become well coordinated if we want to be effective against these Watchtower criminals that seem to know all the tricks of the trade. But God is going to defeat you and we will all rejoice at loss of the WT fortunes.They stopped laughing already and I wouldn't want to be in their shoes as it is. By the way I won something against them in Court yesterday. Thank you for reading sir. It is not too late even for you to come to the Lord and join those who want to see justice done. RMNK

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
16:37:57
Comments
To everyone that wrote regarding my "venting", thanks. We have always felt "alone" unless of course they needed my husband to work on their car or something. We had two small babies and NEVER received help at all, there were so many times we at Lentils (beans) and sauce but if someone came into the congregation professing to be pioneers. They would open the storehouses, I remember one "con" family that took the congregation in Cabool for everything clothes, a place to live and one of the ELDERS gave YES GAVE them a car. They were strangers and received more love in the few short months they took them for everything than we did in the four years we stayed after marrying (1984). My husband and lived there since 1977 or so and he was shunned, I actually think because he was so "good" always striving to do the "right" thing. We barely even kissed as I've said before we married and yet they acted as if we were fornicating in their midst. LOL We later found EVERYONE else that threw stones were the guilty ones LOL So yes I have a lot of pain and self doubt I was just cleaning my family room and saw and old "greatest Man" book and I got nauseated, sad isn't it. My son is now a Presbyterian at 17 and he is such a kind hearted little monster LOL Teenager ya know LOL He still hates the way we were treated, both of my children are scarred from the looks and words of their supposed brothers. Some brothers we dressed and acted as they did, but the cliques are many and the pain is immense. For those that claim it's just ONE or TWO congregations WE HAVE BEEN in FOUR in 18 years and visited some all over the country they are all the same. The blind leading the blind... Thanks again sorry I got off on venting again but I feel so much better knowing we aren't alone. I feel so guilty raising my children in such a judgmental environment, funny that we have been out of the "TRUTH" since 1995 and my kids have done so much better the families that looked down on them. We never had problems with drugs,sex or alcohol hmm maybe LOVE is the reason, we LOVE our children and that has made all the difference. 'nuff venting for now love to everyone, even those still stumbling in the dark Sheila Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
18:57:34
Comments
RE-POST! I debated about re-posting this but I thought to myself that I would NOT let cyberspace take this away! Thanks all for 'just being here' :-) Silence is all they hear. No laughter. No pain... Not pleasure. Not fear... Never the heart beat again... Coldness does not touch them. The heat isn't felt... It doesn't matter any longer... they are waiting, for what?... There is no knowledge. Memories taken away... There is nothing now. No measure of time... Silence is all they hear, have faith be brave! Not pleasure. Not fear, ... when sleeping in the grave. Written ten years ago, or longer. I, at the time of writing this thought that I was writing about literal death. It seems that it isn't about that. It is about This. This dying inside, yet living. This coping, yet hiding. This resurrecting to life, yet never really dying. THIS SILENCE! THIS PAIN! THIS WAKING UP! TO FEEL AGAIN, YET NEVER... NOT FEELING! I don't know what is more painful, the memories I have or the memories I lost! What I KNOW TO BE REAL is wanting to SCREAM at her ‘YOU ARE MY MOTHER, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO SEE MY PAIN, CAN'T YOU LOOK INTO MY EYES AND SEE IT? FEEL IT? YOU ARE THE ONE THAT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABLE TO DO THAT. STOP CALLING ME A CRY BABY AND LOOK AT ME, LOOK AT MY SPIRIT AND KNOW! GIVE ME THE COMFORT YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO GIVE ME! HELP ME SO I CAN LIVE AGAIN! I was five. He was 13. The ONLY attention that he ever got was an uncle that would ‘play' with him, show him ‘attention' other than the beatings his father gave him. He hit me with a rock, accidentally; I was the ‘baby' the tattletale. He was IN FEAR that if I told mom he would be beaten like his father would do, bloody, bloody beatings. (He did not know mom, he had never lived with her) He told his sister (my half-sister) MAKE HER SLEEP WITH ME TONIGHT SO I CAN ‘SHOW HER ATTENTION' MAYBE SHE WON'T TELL! Memories died, what was left was just pain, pain and not knowing why? Pain and not understanding why my own mother couldn't see it and help me!!!!! I would have dreams. I thought I was losing it, kept the dreams to myself, who normal would dream about there own brother? I hid my dreams and had so many questions that I could not answer... When I found out that my brother, remembered his abuse and poured gasoline on himself and lit the match, (not dying), and my husband abused me in such a way, I KNEW! YET I STILL HAD NOT REMEMBERED! I RAN! I RAN AND RAN, I THINK I AM STILL RUNNING! That was almost 9 years ago. When I ran I ran to my half sister. Unknown to me she was on drugs, and when I said ‘my brain is like a computer, it stores information, it deletes information and all I need to figure out is how to hook a printer to my ass so I won't have to talk at all!' ... She freaked, said she was going to tell mom! I LAUGHED! “MOM?” I SAY, “MOM IS 14 HOURS AWAY! MOM? YOU ARE 38 AND I AM 30? WHAT CAN MOM DO? My half sister had me locked away the next day. When I got there, I was so angry and scared! On intake, the man asked me my name I said, “I demand a lawyer before I answer any questions” he says “your not being arrested” I say “I WAS HANDCUFFED, AND BROUGHT HERE AGAINST MY WILL, I FEEL ARRESTED AND DEMAND A LAWYER BEFORE ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS! IT IS MY RIGHT!!!!” he said (after less than 5 minutes of talking to me) bipolar – take her away! The next morning, ‘they' tell me that I HAVE to give blood! I SAY, I cannot do that, for you see, I am dehydrated, and I need to put fluids and food into my body before I can give any blood. THEY SAY you cannot eat or drink until you give blood. I SAY, I taught nutrition, I KNOW that I have to put in before you take out! I DID NOT GET FED AND WAS ALLOWED NO DRINK FOR 24 HOURS! THE NEXT DAY I WENT OUTSIDE, BAREFOOTED BECAUSE THE SHOES I WAS WEARING WHEN THEY TOOK ME AWAY WAS MY HALF-SISTERS AND THEY HURT MY FEET. I STARTED TO PICK UP CIGARETTE BUTTS THAT WERE ON THE GROUND. TWO MAINTENCE MEN LAUGHED AT ME AND SAID LOOK AT HER, GOING TO SMOKE THEM!!!! I THREW THEM AWAY, PICKED UP SOME MORE, THREW THEM AWAY, AND SO ON. I ASKED THEM IF THEY WOULD LOAN ME A RAKE TO MAKE THIS JOB EASIER, NO, THEY SAY, WE CAN'T DO THAT. TWO NURSES CAME THEN, ONE TOOK ONE ARM, THE OTHER TOOK MY OTHER ARM AND THEY ‘WALKED' ME TO GET MY BLOOD TAKEN. The whole time they were walking me I was calmly stating ‘MY RIGHTS ARE BEING TAKEN AWAY! IT IS MY RIGHT NOT TO BE FORCED THIS WAY AND THEY ARE TAKING MY RIGHTS AWAY BY DRAGGING ME. They took me in, since it is my right to REFUSE ANYTHING I refused to get undressed. SO THEY UNDRESSED ME, HOLDING ME DOWN. They took my blood; the doctor did make sure I got something to eat. They the two nurses took me to get my picture taken. IT IS MY RIGHT TO REFUSE ANYTHING so I lowered my head, hair hanging down. One of the women there pulled my hair back forced my chin up, held my head up by my hair and chin and they took the picture (GOT HER ON CLASS 2 ABUSE) still got the pic too!!!! To make a very very long story short, I was there, not of my will, but of my Fathers. I was able to expose the abuses that were going on, with others and me! I was told that, that part of the hospital no longer existed, not sure, afraid to find out. Through me, my Father helped so many, especially this one woman, racked with pain, and drugs that THEY GAVE HER. Inspired I said the Lords prayer to her and her eyes cleared of the drugs and pain and she said OH MY GOD, THEY ALMOST MADE ME FORGET ABOUT JESUS!!!! THEY DID THIS TO ME!!!!! For one tiny bit of time, she remembered! The good, the hope, the LOVE! Oh, by the way, my doc ‘sikes' was the name. When I jumped him for THEM having an s at the end of my last name (my half-sister KNEW ME SO WELL, SHE COULDN'T EVEN SPELL MY NAME RIGHT!) he asked, why so upset about that? I SAY, ‘how would you like it DR. if someone put a ‘U' in your name instead of an ‘I'? He said, see, bipolar, quick witted! OH YEAH, HERE ARE THE SYMPTOMS THAT HE SAID I HAD TO PROVE I AM BIPOLAR... QUICK WITTED, EXCESSIVE TALKING, WHICH I SAID ‘MY MOM ALWAYS TOLD ME I HAD A GIFT FOR GAB, NOW YOUR TELLING ME IT'S PART OF AN ILLNESS!', INTELLIGENCE THAT DOES NOT BELONG SINCE I DIDN'T HAVE THE EDUCATION SOCIETY STATES I NEED TO BE INTELLIGENT (quit school in the tenth, took a couple of college classes, and a course in teaching nutrition for a job). When he told me that excessive talking was a symptom, I took a vow of silence! Showed him who can shut up when she wants to!! He snuck me the pic, so I could help... Did I forget to tell you, returning back from the bloodsuckers, and the one who class 2 abused me, the two men, the ones laughing at me for picking up the butts, they were raking! As I passed by I heard one say to the other ‘I HOPE SHE REMEMBERS US DOING THIS WHEN SHE GETS OUT'!!!!! I DID!! Who do I blame? Who can I blame? My brother, he was abused way more than he abused me, (I remembered then, the memories started coming back.) blame my half-sister? She MADE ME SLEEP WITH HIM, SHE KNEW WHAT HE WOULD DO, HE HAD, OR TRIED TO DO IT TO HER. Can't blame her, she was abused way way more than I was. YES SHE IS THE ONE WHO PUT ME AWAY, but that only helped me remember, and allowed my father to help those suffering in there, how can I blame her for that? There is no one to forgive or not to forgive. NO ONE WHO SHOULD HAVE SEEN MY PAIN FOR SHE (MOM) HASN'T EVEN FACED HER OWN FROM WHAT HER FATHER DID. OR SO I WAS TOLD. There were still questions, I had them answered when my half-brother was told of what I was saying, he denied it and told my mom that if I didn't shut up he would come down there and make me!!!! HE DID, AFTER TRYING TO SIT FIRE TO HIMSELF, SOUGHT HELP, AND TOLD MY HALF SISTER THAT SHE WOULD START TO REMEMBER THINGS TOO, THAT SHE NEEDED TO GET HELP NOW BEFORE THE MEMORIES COME BACK. I just wanted to tell him that I DIDN'T TELL ON HIM FOR HITTING ME WITH A ROCK, TATTLE TALE THAT I WAS, I DIDN'T TELL FOR 25 YEARS! It is all ‘put away' now, not talked about, only the pain remains, and the understanding that there is NO ONE I can forgive, for there is no one to NOT forgive. My father has kept me safe, first taking the memories away until the ‘right time' and then giving me the memories back at the ‘right hour' To not feel blessed that I was used to help others in such a way is impossible for me. I still feel humbled for that. I AM I. I AM WHAT MY FATHER HAS MADE ME, BY PROTECTING ME, AND CARRYING ME! I AM I, AND I WANT TO BE NO OTHER!!!! FOR MY FATHER MADE ME! AND HE LOVES ME!!! If all of this, and much much more (husband letting me eat food that he found maggots on, without telling me) etc... just to give a clue... If all of this didn't happen I would not be me. I can't say that I like myself all of the time, BUT I like that I was used, and the healing began, by my Father, through my brother Jesus!!!! No I was never a ‘real JW' I was nursed on the doctrine, or what I believed to be the doctrine. My mom has always believed. She is now in bible study...my grandma...she died because she refused blood...in the 70's...totally devout witness, funny she never acknowledged my pain, if she saw it I don't know. Had a step dad who did, he saved my life, when I was 8 (I think) he drilled into my head... 9x6=54 and 1st John 4-8 See, my Father used him to save me!!!!! I opened the word and I clung to it for life!!!!! I had found love!!!!! I Did lose custody of my two boys. Hence the following ‘poem?' As I stare at the wall, dimensions began to appear, allowing me the memory that you are still there, to comfort me in my despair. Because, as the vision became clear, it was you watching over mother and child, though neither are here. When earlier today, I said that there was no one in my pain to share, I had not forgotten you, only that you would lend an ear. Thank you for showing me, in this small way, that any pain is ours to share, and for reminding me that you would never allow a burden my shoulders could not bare. Also, thank you for again teaching me that the answers I seek will be given through prayer. Bonnielynn Sorry this is so long, (here I go, feeling guilty...again!!!! STOP!... I NEEDED THIS. EVEN IN Its LENGTH. THANK YOU!!!! BLM

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
20:07:32
Comments
N.H. Supreme Court upholds conviction of man who sexually abused girl ...Paul Berry Appeal... http://www4.fosters.com/news2002/july_02/jul23_02/news/nh0723h_02.asp ... The assaults included Berry hanging the girl by her wrists from hooks on a barn wall and, on another occasion, tying her to a tree, according to court records. The girl testified that Berry, a Jehovah's Witness, quoted Scriptures while forcing her to perform sex acts. She also said he struck her and threatened her so she would not tell her mother.

Remote User:
Date:
23 Jul 2002
Time:
21:36:55
Comments
*** Requiem of a Jehovah's's witness family *** In the past years it has come to a boiling point for all our family of certain things that exist and will permeate all facets of our lives even more so than now. As things progress our family has digressed to a nature that cannot be labeled but only explained. As the years pass and the Matriarch of the family grows older our families last and only adhesive will soon be gone. It is my fear as one of the only of two in our family who can pass on our legacy, will dissipate as soon as our beloved mother and my Grandma leaves us. I grieve everyday of what I see as a so called family especially labeled as a True Christian family to come to so much defiance and lying that it can only be described as sickening. Many complain and has chosen sides of a battle field no one knows the boundaries or the war. Is what I say wrong or do we as people, family, and true Christians see the glass walls we have chosen? As the oldest grandson but also the last son of Grandma as she feels, She has nothing to offer me such as material things only the wealth of loving me for whom I am as a person and to give counsel in her own loving way. Whether I take it or not she tells me it's my free choice and using the wisdom she has taught me to make my way while all along all of you have lived your lives and ignored her going against the very scripture you preach door to door. But what I have seen of the family has grieved me so, to the point to right this letter to all members of our family. I shall try to stay objective and stay true, so forgive me if I have offend you but all must know and read what I have to say and make your own conclusion. First the taking of sides not knowing the whole facts, Little Mikey's wedding the most important day of his life, NOT one of our family MEMBERS ever used their free choice of conscience of will. Was it not Aunt Carmen and Uncle Mike who suggested to everyone not to show and made such a scandal of it to embarrass the family itself? Why were members in her family who are Jehovah's Witnesses attend and give gifts and excepted Little Mikey as a brother and family member? Even I was under threat and was accused of being rebellious if I attend. What is interesting is that Mikey was not disfellowshipped? So why where told not to attend his wedding because his wife was worldly? I thought if you borrowed some money you paid it back whether or not you're worldly or a Jehovah's Witness. Any worldly person knows that, yet we posses the mental capabilities to forget so quickly and ask for money only to give the song and dance of why you cant pay yet in your same breath you accuse those in the Kingdom Hall spiritual weak if they use the same excuses not to pay back. My dad has the power to take away a home and yet he holds back in fear of only one thing, keeping his family and friends close. So why deprive of him of his friends and family. Once an agreement is signed that's it, right? I have always liked Ashley and felt some mutual bond with him so its nothing personal, but the fact is the fact, if you owe and signed the dotted lines your ass is in the sling. Now here is the kicker. We have an elder in our mist that was seen with another woman and was drunk at a bar. This elder asks an individual who walked in hours later to cover his story or get an ass kicking. Is it true? I was threatened when he came to my home. I want to know does this elder and so-called brother of the faith have the love to pay back the $2,000.00 loan for his bail for the D.U.I. or can he say not? But he can accuse and point a finger to wrong doers within his eyesight and no one will question his motives for doing so. Is it the boy who cried wolf in Uncle Dan's case when he yells apostate to his brother? Should we keep the pitchforks and torches ready each night for the crucifixion? We are civilized, yet we act no better then Spanish inquisitors of 1600's. Uncle your words and actions are your own damnation. Keep your accusation for your own grave none of the living care. Another thing, I was told that my daughter is being corrupted for using E-net and E-mail and it is the work of Satan. Yes, this is what I was told and headhunters came to my home investigating such allegations. Are we now to cower when something new comes out? Fear of the new brings questionings, to be labeled apostate if your small minds don't understand. Do I live in Salem in fear of being accused of a witch? Uncle could send his minions to do his bidding to search out guilt, so then it must be that we are guilty first? Is it not we are innocent first? Well, what can we say, get the stake and nails, we will moan after the fact, right? Your actions as a family for doing nothing are proof enough of the vile and septic mentality in which we glory ourselves as Jehovah's slaves. My family is the a good example of being a false Lover of Christ teachings. Family unity now is further away than before. Can we say in 10 or 20 years from now that any of us or family members will even now each other, or are we condemned to walk past each other not knowing who the other is. Are we to drive away our blood for strangers who come and go throughout our lives? All we have is but us, Jehovah blessed families who where unified not divided. Uncle Sammy and I are the only ones to pass on our names. I have begged the family at the gatherings I attended and subtly asked where did Grandpa's stuff go. What hurts the most is that those who have it won't share it. Even one of our family members evicted from his home didn't call anyone to come and get grandpa's yard tools. Yet it was left to go to the dump. This was the family love that our organization taught then it would be better to be a catholic, what's the difference from one liar to another? Sam and me have but our stories to tell and nothing to show. While all of you where gone, it was Sammy, Grandpa and me who would go together and do things. Yet family members took stuff not thinking of that proud legacy he left for our name. None of you appreciated his love, sweat and blood he put into his land or you would have seen it as an investment not a rattrap. Telling grandma to burn down the house and get the insurance money. Shame on you for the words told to Grandma during her grief. I remember it all or has all of you purposely hidden it deep within. Another example of christian honesty and love isn't it? When Grandma dies we will all drift away, I have Aunt Rose's strong will and Uncle Dan's power to fight and won many victories, but I miss my Aunt Margie, she was compassionate and understanding. She would be so disappointed in all of you for she strived in family unity not the chaos we have now. She may not have approved of my life's past but she would have not judged me either knowing that it is up to a much higher power to do, not Danny or some unknown elder. When Grandma goes, are you so sure you will see her again? Is it loud public praises that will save you? Is it that you got 100 hours in service or that you never missed a talk? Is it not love that Christ commanded that supersedes any law? Now already Lines have been drawn for the next wedding or family event, on who's coming and who is not speaking with whom. Can we as a family maintain some unity no matter what differences each of us has? We are so small that we cannot even get together to find out how the other is doing or are regulations of men much deeper than love of your sister or brother because a member is on public reproof or married to a worldly woman? Is it really so hard to come down from your mountain to visit your mother, give a kind gesture, a simple visit to a forgotten family member? Attempts to cheat one another are the most humorist act I've seen yet, and we are family. I sometimes think it's better to deal with a worldly person. We have used have in our family cheaters that would probably put car salesmen out of business. Jeez, no one gets a break. I love my God Jehovah and praise only him and his son so I speak not against him but only of those who cannot fulfill the simplest of deeds, respect of your mother. If you are bad then I dare you to hold any position in the organization whether you are female or male, in this way you can say I'm better than the stranger and the Jew. Can you be honest or love without conditions and regulation of men? Who of you ignore Christ teachings and Jehovah's examples of loving your parent, because if you do you have already failed. The organization has so much power to control even the one Christ commanded to love, " love your father and mother and show them respect." I have no intention to hurt anyone so I apologize. In a hundred years whose going to care anyway, so this letter will probably be thrown into the trash, but at the least I said something. So if my own cousins can be tossed away like refuse, family members lie to keep their position to judge and excuses on why you cannot love Grandma then don't criticize anyone or a group, which includes me. Please my family; pull the rafter out of your own eye. Gossip is worse than any cut of the sword. I have great pride in all of Grandpa's achievements, they show character in which none of us have; yet I will strive to be like him and persevere. I have no shame to speak of him as a great man and I remember him walking with Sarge down the long back driveway. I will always think of him under the grapes peeling the cactus on his old brown stool. I only hope to live as long as he. Remember when he cried alone and many walked in on him and laughed at the old man? I sat with him in those days. So now I watch grandma and my son sits next to me. Sadly to say my only family is no more than bickering strangers and haters using the name of Jehovah to achieve their own selfish desire, Not even making the effort to see Grandma and drive down the hill and stay for even a day is what I see and this for goes for those cousins out there also. None of you even make the effort to come down and see her, not even once in a while. She is too old to drive and many have driven her up to the hills but should it not be the son or daughter to visit the mother? Is it so much to stay the day with her, in her own home? Don't write your hate mail or send headhunters to neither my home, nor a call. Love Grandma now! That is your commandment not from any man but from God himself, she is to be looked after and come first in your busy lives. Crocodile tears won't mean a thing when she has past on. It's the tears and laughs you share with her now are what mean the most. Your actions speak louder than any word you can tell me.Just do...your nephew... This letter is true and shows what real problems exist in a divided family who are all members of the same organization...it is of my opinion as long member that the organization is losing its power of us and many now seek their own way...The MOLE... I hope all of you understand the true problems facing our religion. It not worth debating with someone who doesn't understand or someone just babbling nonsense..as i wrote and stated I cannot tell anyone why Ray Franz told me personally but a police state is what he likened my organization now, its true, my own family are out to get their own living in the ranks of something like a Fascist political group,,,, what good for the goose may not be good for the gander in our religious thinking...This letter was mailed to all twenty family members which are Witnesses...Ray is doing well...good luck to you all in seeking for the truth...THE MOLE

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
00:14:20
Comments
Thank You for doing this for so many others! Its so important in healing ones spirit that they have fellow travelers along the path. Let your God be your guide and allow fellow travelers to lighten the load once in awhile. God bless each of you, Itailianmomma

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
00:24:15
Comments
Hi, avishai here, long time no talk, & I know this may be an unusual question. Any x-JW's going to the Burning man festival? if so email me at avishai@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
08:10:31
Comments
< P>It may help you to know that the genuine Christian Witnesses (in Bethel or out) are not stupid just uninformed,terrorized,traumatized&nbsp;by the fake Masonic Witnesses who are having a great time winding you all up,stumbling you, destroying your faith and if none of that works they then set about killing you (of course making it look like suicide or an accident, as in the case of several witness friends as well as my non witness family). </P> <P>Read the first two chapters of <STRONG><EM><U>'Babylon the great has fallen-God's kingdom rules' </U></EM></STRONG>re the origins of masonry then research elsewhere (wherever Jehovah's spirit guides you for the truth). Christians were thrown to the lions,burned at stakes,hung-drawn and quartered, why are we surprised at abuse now? Albeit more insidious,subtle,sly. Is this Satan's system or not? </P> <P>As one brother said "the witnesses were too near the truth and too good to leave alone". How best to sabotage truth than from inside the last fragile vestige trying to do what they can with imperfect men. As another brother said when I complained of what's going on "don't you realize you're in the middle of a war?"</P> <P>A more covert,'civilised' war, so no-one knows what's really going on except the perpetrators. See http://hardtruth.topcities.com/silentweaponsforquietwars.htm re the secular aspect, you may recognize your financial problems. </P> <P>Then see <A href="http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm">http://www.apfn.org/apfn/camps.htm</A> for the masonic agenda. They follow their own version of Jehovah as all Masonic lodges link up to Solomon's temple and John the Baptist (Templars favorite guy...as one said to me " who's Jesus, he just came along and stole the limelight after all Johns hard work" I replied "John the Baptist didn't feel like that or say that")&nbsp;They also ironically worship&nbsp;deities etc. see 'Shriners' for the Arabic cover-up-version. As one brother told me "they place bets on your faith and gamble on your lives". Sounds like the tactics of fallen angels who for centuries have been entertaining themselves at our expense. They think they are on the winning side, which may seem so if as cowards, they work from the shadows. Why do you all think Jesus did what he did? So we can all live in a happy social club now? Isaiah 55:6-13.</P>

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
10:31:20
Comments
Dear Mole: Thank you for sharing your letter to your family and revealing the hypocrisy that you hate so much. You are a lover of justice, and you see the fake and the phony love all around you *** I have observed that witnesses do not "love" anyone that isn't interested in "the truth." They wipe their feet of them and on them. *** For you to see with such open eyes is a blessing from God. He has put it into your heart to see everything for what it is. There is no difference between a "worldly" person or a witness. There is only a difference between those that love God and do not. Witnesses are so busy dividing, judging, watching everyone they do not have Love for God or their families. *** There are very few people anywhere that love God and His righteousness. *** The WTS society proclaims that JW's do not fight in wars and kill people BUT they allowed the Malawi's to be killed, raped and loose everything - they are guilty of killing brothers and sisters as surely as if they did it themselves. There is NO LOVE coming from the top down and I cannot believe that Jehovah or Jesus backs this atrocity. *** All of us have to make choices. When I read about the Malawi's that was it for me - I do not want to be associated with such wickedness not by association or otherwise. To me it is pure evil. *** I have always been a lover of truth and righteousness, and I cannot let the WTS take that away from me. *** AS a father you have an obligation to your children. As a son and grandson you have an obligation also. To anyone else - NO. *** Love, Claudine aka Soap Box realsimple@mchsi.com ...see real simple!

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
15:13:01
Comments
Just a note on the motivation of pedophiles. The newspaper magazine “PARADE had an interesting article last week on child abuse by ANDREW VACYSS... If you haven't heard of him, he is a lawyer and child advocate. I wrote to him concerning the JS cover up. His reply was that sex abuse is rampant everywhere, in all religions. The reason Catholics and JW's are in the news is because that have an internal judicial system that allows for cover-ups. The article was on the difference between sick and evil. Someone who hears voices, telling them to kill their children, etc. is sick. BUT pedophilia is a choice, an EVIL choice; not a mistake, not an imperfection, not a mental illness but AN EVIL CHOICE MADE BY AN EVIL PERSON... Later in the week he was a guest on a local talk show. He stated to one caller, “when you go to the phone book, there are pages of therapy classes on alcoholism, overeating, gambling, drugs, etc. Can you find any on pedophilia? NO...because pedophiles don't want treatment...(that pretty much dispels any credibility to the WTS view that an abuser can repent and never offend again.). The pedophiles that are in treatment are COURT ORDERED TO BE THERE. In that setting, they learn the psychobabble, terminology, etc. which only enables them to manipulate the system to a higher degree when they are released... He also said he doesn't know why the press has spent so much time on Catholics (on nightly news several times a week) but the JW's have yet to make national primetime news. Andrew also stated that we will never know the whole story...that it is far worse than anyone in the public even knows...How scary is that? I feel so helpless. Andrew did also state that he admires the JW's who live their religion properly as most are very good and moral people...Anyway, I know someone had already mentioned the PARADE article earlier but wanted to elaborate. Maybe some of the JW's w/blinders can understand the difference between sick and evil...we can only hope. Jazbug55@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
15:33:03
Comments
About the age of the girl Russell molested. False Prophecy; Claiming to be a prophet, promoting occultic pyramidology, fraud, perjury, racketeering, child molestation, sending untold millions to a Christ-less eternity Charles Taze Russell is being sought in connection with the printing and publishing false doctrine, founding a world wide criminal syndicate, promoting the occult, slandering God and claiming to be a prophet. He is also wanted for fraud for advertising and selling "Miracle Wheat," and for child abuse for molesting one, Rose Ball (10 yrs.old)

REWARD

The A reward of up to $250,000 for information leading to the apprehension of Russell. found at this link http://www.paulblizard.com/fbi.html

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
16:11:25
Comments
Contributed from JW.com... Xxxxx, ... You said: The WT has served God's purpose in that they have performed sort of like John the Baptizer, in that they have introduced us to Jehovah God and his Messiah, Jesus Christ, with the urgent call to repent. They have acquainted us with the vital issues confronting us regarding God's sovereignty and his determination to rid the earth of wickedness, as well as alerting us to the numerous spiritual dangers that Satan's world presents to our faith. --- my comments: In other words, they've accomplished some good over the years, just as many religions of our day can make the same claim. But, I'll agree they have accomplished some good in their existence. --- You said:... The paradox is, though, that because we have a strong tendency to follow humans, that the Watchtower has apparently, inadvertently, overshot the mark, in that the Watchtower itself has become a religion and has replaced Jehovah God and Christ in the hearts and minds of many. So, I believe that the final test that will come upon Jehovah's Witnesses will be the decoupling of our faith from the Watchtower organization. That will be a traumatic affair for sure. --- My comments: ... Many religions on earth have done this too. Its called Idolatry! --- You said: --- To better appreciate this phenomenon of Jehovah's judgments, which the Bible plainly says are high up out of reach for many, we might liken the Watchtower to the Mosaic system that Paul said served as a tutor leading the faithful to Christ. The stumbling block for many Jews, though, was that they couldn't separate themselves from their attachment to Judaism when Christ finally arrived and Jehovah abandoned the Jewish system. That, my friend, was the paradox, in that the very thing that served as their reliable guide could also be their undoing if they placed undue importance upon it. So, while the Watchtower has similarly served as a tutor, the Watchtower is not the end of our faith. At some point, obviously, the Watchtower will have served its purpose and will be discarded by Jehovah. But the very fact that many of Jehovah's Witnesses have a demonstrable, genuine, child-like faith in God and Christ is evidence that the Wt's tutorship has considerable value. Absolutely wrong. --- my comments:... Anointed Christians of the first century had the holy spirit as their "tutor", the same as the presumed anointed among JWs today are suppose to have. But as you show above so eloquently, in actuality JWs do not demonstrate any evidence at all of possessing or having this powerful force in their lives. They show in fact, the opposite. They show by their many foolish blunders that they clearly DO NOT have the true "leadings of the spirit" as a spiritual homing device, the spiritual "compass" within them. The current activities of JWs give clear evidence that they DO NOT have God's powerful "reproductive seed" implanted within them, to guide them safely and progressively in christian growth. The past 125-year history of the JW Organization unequivocally proves that. (Romans 8:14-16; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 3:9) Hmm. (See detailed information posted by myself on this subject where the critical fallacy of your argument is revealed.) http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=25225&site=3 Therefore, what you propose above is impossible. Here's why. In short, whenever the truly spirit "anointed" of God of the first century, would get off track of his christian course at any time, God's spirit, which "bears witness with their spirit", immediately acts as an "umbilical cord" tie-in with God and the individual, to let them know exactly how God feels about their questionable conduct. The special "tie-in" with God stays with the "anointed" till their death. (Romans 8:14-16; Ephesians 1:13, 14) This being the case then, there is no way possible for the truly "spirit-anointed" to get confused or innocently misled away from the path of righteousness, as you have suggested above. This is because God's "spirit" is placed within each genuinely "anointed" person as a "reproductive seed" that positively KEEPS HIM ON TRACK! As God's Word says, the spiritual "son" of God then, properly "cannot practice sin" at all. He does not "practice sin" because God's spirit "leads" him, continually. (1 John 3:9) Therefore, with the spirit "leading them" as anointed "sons", it would be impossible for them to pursue a course of sin and wrongdoing (as we've seen practiced by the WTS and company) over a prolonged period time, and NOT COME TO KNOW IT. God's powerful Holy Spirit would unquestionably, LET THEM KNOW! God's active holy spirit and its powerful operation upon the "anointed" son would without a doubt, make such a disturbing course known to the Governing Body and all presumed "anointed" among JWs earth wide. God's spirit would let them know that this particular course they were pursuing, was completely displeasing to Himself and Jesus Christ, who is the head of the christian congregation. God's spirit would act, so that they must stop this conduct, before His anger rages against them as lawless ones. So, the truly "spirit-begotten" would have it made known to them by God Himself, individually and as a group, any conduct or action that was displeasing to God and Christ. (Case in point, the abusive treatment toward the "Silentlambs" movement and the strong hand methods of disfellowshipping to "stem the tide" and effectively silence the "whistle-blowers" who expose "the hidden" wicked pedophile situation among the JW organization earth wide. -- Luke 8:17) The "anointed" christian would know, by way of the "spirit", God's holy spirit, that God was thoroughly displeased. (Romans 8:14-16; 1 Peter 1:23; 1 John 3:9) The Bible shows when the truly "anointed" get off track, this spiritual "tie-in" of the holy spirit, immediately begins to be "grieved", and to such an extent, that they would know immediately something is wrong and "out of order" with God and that definite action must be taken to remedy the situation. If they did not heed the "witness of the spirit" in such critical cases, they would run the risk of "blaspheming" God's spirit by a prolonged "practice of sin WITH KNOWLEDGE". Complete disaster! He would lose his "heavenly hope" because he has not remained "pure" in God's eyes, just as "that One is pure". Therefore, the truly "anointed" must then always follow the "leadings of the spirit", as true sons of God till their death to gain Jehovah's and Jesus' approval. (Ephesians 4:30; Hebrews 6:4-8; 10:26-31) "And you have an anointing from the holy one; all of you have knowledge...And as for you, the anointing that you received from him remains in you and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie, and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him." (1 John 2:20, 27) "And everyone who has this hope set upon him purifies himself just as that one is pure...Everyone who has been born from God does not carry on sin, because His [reproductive] seed remains in such one, and he cannot practice sin, because he has been born from God." ( 1 John 3:3, 9) --- Contributed...thread found at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32364&page=7&site=3#435359

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
18:27:43
Comments
I am sort of loath to join in what has in many ways all the symptoms of becoming a free for all bashing session. However. I have been attending Kingdom halls, District conventions and circuit assemblies for a full ten years mostly here in the UK. Firstly though I disapprove of peoples erroneous comments, here in the Guest-book that conclude with 'I am an ex-witness' when my intuition tells me and I can derive from the ignorance with which they speak, that they have probably never even visited a Kingdom Hall (KH) in their entire lives. That is pointless. I admire Bill for speaking out for he most certainly is trying to 'change the organization from the inside'. Here is my story for what it's worth. In the seclusion of the KH, Witnesses can afford to see themselves as the true 'Israel of God' and it may be some of their opinions that the elders of the CULT, SECT or CHURCH; 'can do no wrong'. However, once some Witnesses leave the insularity of the congregational meeting they may and often do make allegiances with Worldly groups or Individuals as a means to shore up their personal, secular or more unfortunately sometimes congregational peer groups. They may fall into the old habit of forming assumptions about how they will relate to other more 'thinking' type individuals. These other people, may either be within or outside of the congregational group. For instance I am a dedicated vegetarian and have been for 27 years, probably at a guess, longer than perhaps 50% of the Witnesses have been ordained or baptized ministers. So I have a firm conviction or belief. This I attempt to keep in line with the reality of the food supply and demand issue worldwide. That is, in present conditions veggies have to see the difficulties of farming in many areas...even here in Scotland where the land is not suitable for arable crops in many areas. So, I have a patient and balanced view. However, when in recent times I have attempted to hint upon the ethical, sensible even 'Christian' value of being a vegetarian in these times of World starvation and bad eating habits I have been silenced by the elders. That is, I have actually been shut up by decree of the elders and banned from contributing any input at 'Tuesday Book class' meetings or indeed at any other meeting. I can guarantee that my previous attempts at input were very humble, low key and fitted in with the vein of the discussion. However, because that upsets the predominant attitude in the congregation peer group of "just go along with it, don't question anything and stay quiet on so-called 'controversial issues', and you'll be alright." I have been from behind my back without explanation, simply SHUT-UP. Following a huge Foot and Mouth disease outbreak in 2001 here in UK, one brother expressed belief that vegetarians were behind it all! That is insulting. A circuit overseer at a French congregation I was attending once referred to the Environmentalist organization Greenpeace as 'PARASITES'. This was just a couple of years after the French secret services sank a GP boat and killed a photographer. I had personally once served as radio-technician on that very boat. Again, Gross insensibility and very bad timing for I was there to take him aside after and give him a sensible rebuking, for I am slow to burst into rage. But once I get going... There in no call nor use for these sort of outbursts by senior serving congregational overseers or elders who are supposed to be looking after the 'spiritual welfare' of the congregations. The Witness public speakers will from time to time at a public talk be heard to make comments like "We are not interested in human rights; We are a theocracy". This is all typical of the proud and open show of bigotry you find from time-to-time within any self-appointed patriarchal or indeed feminist (if you want equality) power structure. From Eastern European Oligarchies to The White house; they all from time to time, whilst waiting for God to show his face and end it all, demonstrate a blatant disrespect for basic human individual growth, dignity and the resultant seeding of change this causes in Society. This is imperfection. Yes, Witnesses can become self-appointed holders of the golden chalice and exhibit such carelessness you wouldn't trust them to feed your pet cat. Example: A serving Ministerial servant associate of mine, who is a professional electrician and a closer friend (a pioneer) I had known from before either of us were associated with the JW's, went mountaineering in Cumbria UK. It was about February 1996 and they didn't take ropes. My friend Jim Cullen fell 1000 feet in snow and after air-lift to hospital, died of thermal shock. How two men one in his late 40's and working for the electricity board couldn't realize the importance of using the correct safety gear has always escaped me. Later he may have once made reference in partial joke to the reputation he had gained from this episode as: 'there is no-one more treacherous than me' Anyway, coming back to the real issues of Bill's site all I can say as a Childless single man is, it is strange to me that BETHEL has allowed things to get so far gone as the PANORAMA documentary exposed. Bethel is opening up to some of my ideas on future diet if recent AWAKE articles are anything to go by...although I have always been one for action in the HERE & NOW. It's an inevitability for authorities that can't act immediately and positively in response to people's legitimate complaints as regards child-molestation that one day they will find themselves up in court...especially if you happen to have your HQ in NYC. Brooklyn So to sum up folks: Yes, you definitely need a strategy to survive your religion if you have one. I have just thought of this to describe some of it: "Those that work hard to help others will know, through long suffering what obstinacy means; Those that sit on their backsides and hatch plots against the innocent, will know what ostracism means." I have a personal website if anyone wants to learn a bit about me: http://www.all-yellow.co.uk e-mail: gram@all-yellow.co.uk

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
20:39:05
Comments
Hey!!! What happened to my post a few days ago with my "drum roll please" comment?! I've been gone for vacation for a few days, what happened? Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
20:39:11
Comments
Hey!!! What happened to my post a few days ago with my "drum roll please" comment?! I've been gone for vacation for a few days, what happened? Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
20:48:24
Comments
IT'S ABOUT CHILD ABUSE *** In response to the recent letter written to Betsan Powys (BBC Panorama) by J R Brown currently on display on the JW-media.org website. The intro to the letter reads in part, “Parents can feel secure in the knowledge that much effort is put forth to screen out possible child abusers from appointment to responsible positions in the congregations of Jehovah's Witnesses.” The body of the letter gives a false sense of security to Jehovah's Witnesses, and to parents of children who may associate with Jehovah's Witnesses. It gives the idea that the policy in place has scriptural backing. The scripture quoted there is describing actions to be done for “errors or sin” Child rape is not just an error. It is a deliberate EVIL act. It is a crime in every civilized nation of the world. Romans 13 is the scripture that should be applied to this criminal act. This is not a simple dispute between two people that can be resolved by the two parties meeting with two elders and being able to come to some amiable agreement. THIS IS AN EVIL CRIME COMMITTED AGAINST A CHILD. *** I am disputing this letter and the intro on the website because it is factually wrong. Let me repeat that: factually wrong. Factually wrong is very serious. How can we fight for a change of policy by mobilizing people to oppose something that is not happening? Especially when something much worse *is* happening. The Watchtower Society wants people to believe that child abuse is not a problem within their ‘spiritual paradise'. They want people to be lulled to sleep believing that IF a case of child abuse ever happens within the Jehovah's Witness community it will be handled with love, compassion and with protection of the child as the main focus. We the abused want to shout from the mountain top, “IT HAPPENS” “WE WERE NOT TREATED WITH LOVE” *** We need accuracy, accuracy and more accuracy. And that's especially true because we are dealing with an Empire that specializes in smoke and mirrors. So we need to pose the truth as an alternative for those who care, and from that we can build a mighty force for change. Because the people *need* to know the truth about this Empire and because people hate liars worse than murderers. And because people hate child abusers worse than liars. As a smoke screen the Watchtower Society tells the faithful at the congregation level, “It is all about Apostasy. All the news stories are lies propagated by disaffected ex- Jehovah's Witnesses and hard-line Apostates. Don't listen to them or else you will share in their sins.” *** Those leading the fight for the "it's-about-Apostasy" argument have relied on falsehood and sophistry. They present speculation as fact. They accept statements such as those made by the Watchtower public relations spokesmen, J.R. Brown and Mr. Gilles, as true, even though with a little research one can see that Brown and Gilles are con men, or worse. *** The 'it's-about-Apostasy' spokespeople prove their case by repetition, presenting gobbledygook as credible argument. This has disastrous effects, especially on those most precious human beings, young people. *** The very good and very large Silentlambs movement is under attack by the willingness of trusted leaders to argue for positions they know to be false. Will it succeed? If I know the guys providing the 'evidence' for the 'it's-about-Apostasy' argument are repeating lies - and I do know they are repeating lies - and I remain silent, aren't I a liar? I refuse to make that stupid mistake. (Although afterwards to absolve guilt, I could always say, "I didn't oppose the 'it's-about-Apostasy' argument because I didn't know.") Not! *** It's-about-Apostasy' isn't the only nonsense argument currently being promoted on 'our side' (i.e., the exposure of the 10 year affiliation of the WTS with the U.N.). There are other arguments supported by demagoguery and dubious documentation. They also produce harmful effects. But one thing at a time. *** Right now, today, it is about child abuse among Jehovah's Witnesses. It is about hiding the ugly truth. It is about sanctioning all those who dare to defend the children and speak out in their defense. *** To call those who expose the hidden truth about child abuse within the Jehovah's Witnesses ‘spiritual paradise' apostates is a travesty of justice. To label the whistle blowers as apostates in an effort to keep the truth hidden exposes who truly is apostate. *** Just a few thoughts ON TOPIC. I was stunned by MOLE's letter to his family. How touching, how sad. How can the WTS destroy entire families in the name of Jehovah!!!!! I am very fortunate that all of my children have assured me that if I go down they will all go down with me. I spoke to a reporter with the St Petersburg Times today. She has several people she has interviewed about how the WTS disfellowships people and how it rips families apart. I gave her a copy of the August KM that deals hard-line with how relatives are to shun their own family members even to the point of perhaps refusing to eat with a disfellowshipped family member living in the same house. "Mom you eat in the kitchen. The rest of us will eat in the dining room." SICK HATEFUL CRUEL It so bizarre. I can't think about this any more. I have to get some sleep. Love Y'all, Loris

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
21:55:22
Comments
I like the website, but I'm wondering WHY THE FBI does not know of the "secret files" at WTBTS? This should be reported. Dateline investigated and they do a very thorough job. Send FBI a tape with the number of pedophiles...THEN... Let them know that 15,374,986 people were at our Memorial. That increases the POTENTIAL OF MORE PEDOPHILES considerably! Spokane ps Pray for Bill

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
22:02:42
Comments
To Laura Hubbard, or Torrence, Ca. the only recourse you have that will end your misery is to SUE THE SOCIETY. If you cannot afford it, either, A. start looking for class-action people who can go in together. B.Look for an Attorney who will take a BIG HUNK of your money...what do you care, if he gets the job done (that will motivate him and you will "get" the WTBTS the only place it hurts them...in the checkbook! DO IT.

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
22:11:14
Comments
To Jessica Toman, I did not get Bill's email...another press conf. YAHOOOOOOOO. If they will give up the fear and come forward, we have a chance. The lambs have been so mistreated and their families, they live in fear. Jehovah does not expect that...COME OUT AND TELL...TELL...TELL...TELL. It is the ONLY way we can clean up the Pedophiles and those who help them. Spokane

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
22:46:40
Comments
Welcome back Linda, some of the posts got put into cyberspace! SLC reposted a lot of them, there in july 02 part 2. SLC hasn't been here for a few days either. but that's what happened, cyberspace took most of July's posts. bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
23:34:48
Comments
Loris...You have developed into a powerful writer! Continue to use your skills to reach the press... From the Battlefield Friend

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
23:52:35
Comments
TRASHBAGS COVER WINDOWS @ Bill BOWEN'S JC'S MEETING EARLIER TONIGHT --- HOW STRANGE!!! /SLC --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Wed, 24 Jul 2002 22:23:17 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Elders Afraid-redone --- After my specific request in writing of not being able to attend unless my witnesses could appear, the judicial committee informed a reporter for the Paducah Sun they were going to convene a hearing anyway at 7 pm Wednesday evening. I decided to go down to the Kingdom Hall and make an appearance. I arrived at five after 7 pm. The Paducah Sun reporter was there, but I noted there was only one vehicle in the parking lot. Now as you may recall, to convict a child molester in the face of a denial there must be two eye-witnesses before a disfellowshipment can take place. Since I have flatly denied the charge of "causing divisions" I chose to wait for any witnesses to appear to testify against me. None showed up. After the reporter left the elders peeked out the window and saw me setting out side, then the strangest thing happened, they taped trash bags over the windows and it appears they locked the front door. I took a picture as elder Jeff Stein stepped outside to do so. (You have to lock the door from the outside)I waited for another thirty minutes and then all three came outside, Ron Cary, George Bandarra, and Jeff Stein. Jeff waved and they got in their SUV and drove off. George Bandarra informed the Paducah Sun reporter they were going to call me with their decision Thursday. I do not understand how they made a decision for the following reasons: 1. They produced no eye-witnesses in the face of my flat denial. 2. They ignored my request in writing for my right to produce eye-witnesses as to my innocence. (this is according to organizational protocol) 3. They did not invite me in to appear, but instead covered the windows and locked the door even though I was sitting in plain sight. 4. They refuse to acknowledge or answer any correspondence I send to them but act on their letters without any consideration for my defense. Included you will find a link to pictures of what is described above. IN this photo if you look closely you will see the windows are open on each side of the door and a reporter from the sun is inside talking to the elders. http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722558/44722772XooRVs In this photo it appears the elder is locking the door from the outside as they are taping up the windows with trash bags. http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722558/44722843MBprWy There you have it windows taped completely shut and door locked. I guess this will really help them to meditate on making a fair and impartial decision. http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722558/44723017NEbYFW Ron Cary getting in SUV to leave, George Bandarra is already in the SUV. http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722558/44723095CotTTW Jeff Stein leaving out of the Kingdom Hall.. Ron Cary shutting the door of SUV.. George Bandarra getting ready to hit the gas.. Perhaps because they forgot their eye-witnesses they did not want to talk about it as I sat right in front of them. Could it be that once again these local-out-of-town elders gave in to "fear of man"? Perhaps they are blind and did not see me sitting in their driveway taking their picture? http://community.webshots.com/photo/44722558/44723151WBQHwq

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
23:55:32
Comments
ERICA'S CONVICTED CHILD ABUSER GETS POETIC JUSTICE: <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32768&page=1&site=3#434621> Posted by Sunspott: Got this info from a reliable source this evening: Manuel Beliz, convicted in the Erica Rodriguez case, was sentenced to prison at the Walla Walla state penitentiary. Apparently, the prisoners were allowed to watch the airing of Dateline. Well, it seems that Mr. Beliz's fellow inmates didn't have a very good opinion of him after viewing the program. According to my source, he suffered a very severe beating following the airing. His family went to the penitentiary and requested a transfer for him. The request was denied. Thought some of you might be interested in that bit of information." --- How about that, gang? Evidently, "Brother" Sleeze-Beliz is not winning any popularity contests at the jail house. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
24 Jul 2002
Time:
23:57:55
Comments
BRO JOE ANDERSON INFO from J-W.com forum, posted by Littlebit. --- FYI/SLC. <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32862&amp;site=3> --- Joe Anderson thought you'd like to know what caused him to be invited to attend a judicial hearing held in his honor. He said he received a phone call from Larry Seely, the presiding overseer of the Manchester, TN Congregation on July 19th. Another elder was listening to the conversation and identified himself. The reason for the judicial hearing, Larry said, was because Joe gave each elder a personal copy of his resignation letter. By sending the Watchtower Society the letter and then giving a copy to the elders was, in effect, "Undermining the confidence of the brothers in Jehovah's organization." Joe said he told Larry how foolish this whole charge was, that the elders always are read a letter of resignation, so what's the difference if they each received a copy? Larry couldn't answer this question and hardly tried, Joe said. Joe also told Larry that he abided by J. R. Brown's recent statement that the Society welcomed in-house discussion and what he did was definitely in-house. Joe asked Larry who put him up to convening a judicial hearing? He told me he knew that the local guys wouldn't do such a thing. Larry replied that it didn't matter. That was enough for Joe to know it was the Watchtower Society and he told Larry so. Joe also said that he told the two elders how sad this all was, this control of the Witnesses and the loss of freedom of speech. FYI, Joe sent a copy of his resignation letter to two Governing Body members, Dan Sydlik and Jack Barr, men who Joe and Barbara were quite friendly with. He thought that since so much time had passed since Barbara's appeal letter was given to the local elders and nothing was happening to Bill Bowen or Barbara, that maybe these GB members were holding things up because of receiving his letter and giving more thought to the whole issue. When both Barbara and Bill received notice of judicial hearings last week, plus Joe was invited to a judicial hearing himself, he decided that there was no hope that things had changed, so he asked Bill Bowen to post his resignation letter on this forum. Joe spent nearly 50 years in a position of authority in the WT organization, also 25 years in full-time service, which includes 13 1/2 at Brooklyn Bethel. He knows most of the top administrative men at headquarters, many since 1956 when they were all young men working together in the Adams Street Watchtower Factory. Joe was invited back to Bethel in 1982 because of his extraordinary reputation as an older man and for his skills. As a skilled plumber and builder, he was given oversight of plumbing installation in most of the new high rise buildings that the Society built in Brooklyn during the 80s and early 90s. Joe loved working side by side with young JW men and woman who he taught the plumbing trade, along with giving them fatherly advice. He and Barbara assisted nearly 80 people to become JWs before they went to Bethel. Their son was in Bethel for 16 years arriving there in 1981. They were a happy family who enjoyed a high reputation. But, it's all gone now, he said. All the years of hard work spent in behalf of the 'theocracy." All because of trying to help and protect "widows and orphans" [women and children] and begging for a change to policies that protect pedophiles and hurt children. By confronting these issues in a letter that disagreed with Watchtower policies sent to WT leaders, men who, by their actions, show they don't really give a fig for either women or children, Joe will probably be disfellowshipped. Joe said that he agrees with one British active JW, who recently wrote that "...sadly, it seems that the Watchtower Society is a only concerned with its image protection policies." Joe hopes that someday as their life force ebbs, each man at Watchtower will realize how empty his life came to be because he lived only to protect a corporation's image. There can be no self-respect for such a life, only loathing. Joe and Barbara believe that there is no love of God in a religion and in its members if they do not practice love of neighbor, in many of its definable aspects or facets, as Jesus commanded. Joe and Barbara send their regards to you all and thank you for your support and loving words. Littlebit

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
00:03:05
Comments
THIS SHOULD BE THE "THEME SCRIPTURE " FOR THIS WEBSITE (found at J-W.com). IT IS EXCELLENT! /SLC --- Isaiah 10:1,2 (NWT) --- "Woe to those who are enacting harmful regulations and those who, constantly writing, have written out sheer trouble, in order to push away the lowly ones from a legal case and to wrest away justice from the afflicted ones of my people.."

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
00:07:09
Comments
GOOD POINTS re: JOE ANDERSON DFING from J-W.com: Posted by Room 215: "I marvel at the Society's success in coming up with new ways to appall me, even though I thought I'd seen it all. What we've witnessed here with Joe and Barbara's beheading is the latest stop on that slippery slope that began in the seventies with the installation of the Governing Body and its Sanhedrin mentality, It never seems to dawn on these dimwits that every time they alienate and then expel another courageous, highly principled seeker of reform, a would-be loyal dissenter, they drive another nail into their own coffin and accelerate their self-destruction. --- Those senile old boneheads got the ball rolling on the Society's final chapter with the flogging of Ray Franz, Ed Dunlap and Cris Sanchez, et al. It's now deteriorated to the point where there's no long[er] any pretense at reason, [or] persuasion with Scripture: it's ``sit down, shut up, or else.'' Intellectuals and persons of conscience have become an endangered species, all targeted for elimination. To survive, these latter must [become] David-like, feign stupidity /imbecility. --- With each successive chapter it appears more likely that the denouement of this modern tragedy will be a Jim Jones-style Kool Aid picnic. <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32601&site=3&page=1> and <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32862&site=3>

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
00:10:21
Comments
WASN'T THIS BRILLIANT SCRIPTURAL REASONING in Joe Anderson's original letter? /SLC. --- "If Barbara [Anderson] was disfellowshipped because of causing divisions, the Apostle Paul should have been disfellowshipped for causing divisions among the flock because he publicized sensational sexual immorality in the Corinthian congregation. Not only did he discuss with the Corinthian Congregation how he felt about the congregation hiding fornication in their midst, he recorded his accusations for millions of people to read in the Bible during the past 2,000 years. Why is it okay for Paul to have gone public revealing disgraceful conduct that was being condoned in the congregation, but when my wife goes public about the [WTBTS] organization condoning and protecting immoral people by bad policies, she is punished?"

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
01:21:50
Comments
Relatives Mourn Texas Crash Deaths --- .c The Associated Press --- SHREVEPORT, La. (AP) - The 62-year-old woman killed with five relatives in a Texas traffic wreck was a generous woman who often gave food from her freezer to people in need, a niece said. --- Even when her own house burned down, Ira J. Salone remained concerned about other people, said Vonetta Salone, 26. ``I never saw her break down,'' Salone said. --- Ira Salone, who had custody of her great-grandchildren - 3-year-old triplets, a 10-year-old and a 14-year-old - died with four of them and the children's grandmother. The children's mother lives in California, Salone said. --- The family was driving home Sunday after visiting one of Ira Salone's sisters in the Dallas area when a Ford Explorer slammed head-on into their minivan on Interstate 20, about 60 miles west of Shreveport. --- The crash killed the other driver and everyone in the minivan except one of the triplets. Tatyana Jackson was in critical condition with head and chest injuries, said family members and the Texas Department of Public Safety. --- Tevin and Tyler Jackson, also 3, their sisters, Shanae Jackson, 10, and Marisha Jackson, 14, and their grandmother, Belinda L. Jackson, 48, were killed, as was Kyong Leingang, 54, of Addison, a Dallas suburb. --- A son told investigators Leingang was returning from a gambling trip to Shreveport's casino riverboats, state Trooper Carl Davis said. --- He said witnesses believed Leingang was driving more than 90 mph. The legal limit is 70 mph. Leingang had a clean driving record, and relatives said they did not know of any medical problems, Davis said. --- State investigators planned to diagram the scene and compute speeds Thursday, he said. --- Vonetta Salone described her aunt as a Jehovah's Witness who shared but didn't force her beliefs on others, and who cared for the youngsters full-time. --- She said Ira Salone would line the triplets up on stools and feed them assembly-line style. --- ``She was really good with them,'' Salone said. ``She seemed like she enjoyed it.''

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
01:43:40
Comments
Hi again, "Brother Sleeze Beliz" the creep who abused Erica is receiving the consequences of his lifestyle... Other criminals absolutely hate Pedophiles and when put in the general prison population the pedophile does not always last very long ... My X used to worry if and when put in jail he would not live very long and he would be killed by other prisoners. That is one reason why he threatened everyone so they would not talk...My thought is their is only one type of prisoner that other prisoners hate and do not identify with and that is pedophiles.. He (my X when I was with him)gave me an example of this black doctor who examined his daughter and accused him of sexually abusing her. He said to me "Do you know where she the doctor is now?" ...Pause... I didn't answer him. Then he said "She is dead." The message to us if we talked he would kill us. As he told me before he can't go to Jail because they (other prisoners)would kill him...The way I look at it is that would be the consequences of his lifestyle choose but it doesn't change the facts that he doesn't want me or my kids to talk. For the past 6 years he has tampered with my car... then last summer he went to the elders and gave them a big long...long confession and even his daughter came up after from NFLD. The elders gave me a letter saying I am scripturally free...Then my X he marries this woman "Debbie" from Nevada... He was never publicly reproved so everyone thinks and comments to me or my parents that I am the wrong doer...When I ask the elders about this they refuse to basically do anything that would clear my name... He is a sex offender and sex offenders can do anything in the organization. This example proves this... How can Jehovah be with this organization right now with all the injustices going on?... I am so glad to see that the governing body and their policies on child abuse are being exposed. NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES THEY SAY THEY ARE BIBLE BASED IT JUST DOESN'T MAKE THEM BIBLE BASED ... Just taking one or two scriptures out of context with their application does not make it from the bible. All the scriptures and context of the bible must be considered if these scriptures are to be applied correctly. THE GB DID NOT DO THIS. THE GB APPLICATION OF THEIR ONE OR TWO SCRIPTURES PROMOTES ABUSE OF CHILDREN AND THE CONTINUATION OF PEDOPHILES IN THE CONGREGATION ... THIS IS APOSTATE TEACHING...IN THE HIGHEST DEGREE AND THEY ARE ARROGANTLY REFUSING TO SEE THE ERROR OF THEIR WAYS...NOW IT IS BEING EXPOSED FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE...The scriptures say "what is secret will not remain hid." Their secrets are out...DJB

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
08:44:58
Comments
Welcome back SLC! You were missed! Loris ditto on the praise of your writing! Bravo! blm

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
09:28:11
Comments
Hi all, I'm finally home from vacationing in Chicago, visiting my kiddos. Lots of activity going on here, it took me a while to read all the posts. I used to live in the Chicago suburbs, Schaumburg, Hoffmann Estates, Palatine, etc (that's for the person who asked if there was anyone from Chicago). Thank you, Bonnielynn, for letting me know what happened to my earlier post. Cyberspace messed things up here. Ugh...Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
12:52:31
Comments
Hi my name is Raquel and I live in Boston Massachusetts. I recently got baptized in May 25,2002. This was my dream come true, because i definitely want to serve God as the only true God. As I've seen all of the comments I well, I don't know what they are going through but personally I count in Jehovah always. I trust him with all of my heart. According to Psalms 3:5. I trust in Jehovah, I stand tall with a firm conviction. Many people laugh in the name of Jehovah, and all I do is have patients Jehovah. Jehovah is patient, but there is a day in which his patience will run out. I have that faith and hope that all these scandals will be over. We are living in the last days, and the ones that are laughing now won't be laughing when Jehovah's's day arrive, with the help of his son Jesus Christ, and angels. Satan the devil is attacking so many people so that they won't get saved. Anyhow Jehovah's is Love and he wouldn't want to harm nobody. I have faith in god and i believe that he does heal in a matter of time because he has helped me. I go to him always and all those times he has helped me. I thank you Jehovah. I am a 17 yr. old witness of his message and i will certainly defend his words. Those that laugh and take this as a joke, you don't know who you are messing with. well i hope for all the one's that are having problems I hope that you can resolve it with someone and with god. Have faith and have that trust with and in him. trust me it works!!! God loves you and he wants the best for everybody!!!

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
13:04:03
Comments
Hi my name is Raquel and I live in Boston Massachusetts. I recently got baptized in May 25,2002. This was my dream come true, because i definitely want to serve God as the only true God. As I've seen all of the comments I well, I don't know what they are going through but personally I count in Jehovah always. I trust him with all of my heart. According to Psalms 3:5. I trust in Jehovah, I stand tall with a firm conviction. Many people laugh in the name of Jehovah, and all I do is have patients Jehovah. Jehovah is patient, but there is a day in which his patience will run out. I have that faith and hope that all these scandals will be over. We are living in the last days, and the ones that are laughing now won't be laughing when Jehovah's's day arrive, with the help of his son Jesus Christ, and angels. Satan the devil is attacking so many people so that they won't get saved. Anyhow Jehovah's is Love and he wouldn't want to harm nobody. I have faith in god and i believe that he does heal in a matter of time because he has helped me. I go to him always and all those times he has helped me. I thank you Jehovah. I am a 17 yr. old witness of his message and i will certainly defend his words. Those that laugh and take this as a joke, you don't know who you are messing with. well i hope for all the one's that are having problems I hope that you can resolve it with someone and with god. Have faith and have that trust with and in him. trust me it works!!! God loves you and he wants the best for everybody!!!

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
15:12:25
Comments
According to the Watchtower Organization, the end has been just around the coooooooooorrrrrrrrrrrnnnn nnnnnnnneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeerrr for 120 years. That is one big corner.

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
15:24:15
Comments
It is insanity for the WTS/Elders/congregations to support and encourage a woman to stay with her "husband the pedophile" while encouraging other families to shun disfellowshipped family members!!!!! It is crazy-making to the highest degree. *** It is crazy and dangerous, it is absolutely wicked. It is so twisted backwards I want to scream. *** This is not Jehovah's "order" or orderliness. *** So, if a wife has a pedophile for a husband, she has to be a better wife. If another wife whose husband smokes or just says NO TO THE WTS, she and her kids can treat him with disrespect...mmmmm...SUBMIT TO THE PEDOPHILE in one case AND disrespect the man who is a good husband, but not a "good" JW in the other case. *** Bill Bowen gets no witnesses while the pedophile has to have two. *** How does anyone see this as just imperfect rather than the wickedness it really is? *** Bill Bowen had the character to stand up and say NO, and how many men went with him? A handful? How many who have not been personally effected, have said no more? Few. *** Very good scripture Cheerleader - Isaiah 10:2 finishes with...for the widows to become their spoil, and that they may plunder even the fatherless boys. *** I would not want to be part of this wickedness when Jesus and His mighty Angels come. The Golden Calf - is the WTS being worshipped as if it had some real power to save when in fact is shows itself to be destructive to the most innocent, defenseless - the widows and the fatherless boys. *** WHAT KIND OF SPIRIT DOES IT TAKE TO WRITE AN ARTICLE IN THE KM TO ENCOURAGE SHUNNING IN THE HOME? Is that a loving, peaceful, merciful, joyful, spirit? or a hateful spirit - can you imagine Jesus doing such a thing? Can you imagine Jesus treating Bill or Loris or the Andersens with such contempt because they want "widows and fatherless boys" cared for and protected? *** I do not want to be near the JW's when Jesus comes!!! Feeding on their food is dangerous. *** Anyone who sits in a KH and listens and feeds on this does it by choice. Jehovah does not force us to say yes or no, to do right or wrong - He presents the truth and we make the choice as to what we want to do with it. The truth is children have the right to be protected, and that the Malawi's had the right to be protected and were not. *** on my soap box again! C.E.

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
16:17:36
Comments
Since posts seem to be sailing off into Cyberspace, I think I'll create most of mine, especially the more important ones, in Documents and save them, then post them so if posts go off sailing again I can just repost it. For you newbies here that are not familiar with me yet, you can read my story and posts beginning on June 5th and 7th of this year. Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
16:17:40
Comments
Since posts seem to be sailing off into Cyberspace, I think I'll create most of mine, especially the more important ones, in Documents and save them, then post them so if posts go off sailing again I can just repost it. For you newbies here that are not familiar with me yet, you can read my story and posts beginning on June 5th and 7th of this year. Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
17:19:49
Comments
Raquel, That is wonderful that you are full of conviction. Just remember to keep your trust in Jehovah and not the elders. My husband is from the Methuen Congregation in Massachusetts and the wrong doing that is allowed I could write a novel about, they have a firm clique there and nitpick the ones that are trying but turning a blind eye to fraud, brothers filing bankruptcy right and left on rental properties just untold corruption. Keep your faith in Jehovah and not man Been there done that and never going back Sheila Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
19:29:24
Comments
I would like to congratulate you for your ability to speak the truth about child abuse. I have an Aunt who is a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses(convert) and she has two daughters who have both been victims of molestation by her second husband. One of her daughter's is her husband's own biological child. My aunt refuses to acknowledge fully the abuse...and remains married to this man because she says she cannot divorce him because of her faith. Her husband is not a baptized Witness...but has studied. My Aunt makes the majority of her decisions about her life based on what "Brother so and so" says is appropriate including her marriage. As a result of the sexual abuse...my Aunt's youngest children were taken by SRS. A non-Witness baby sitter reported that my Aunt's 3 year old had blood on her underwear. SRS refused to return custody of the children until her husband had vacated the premises. He is currently in jail serving time for rape and other crimes. But my Aunt still remains his legal wife. She said that the elders of her congregation said that she can only divorce on the grounds of adultery and that "even if" she feels he's been unfaithful..."she must" have physical proof or the "two witnesses" rule I guess. When her husband was taken to court to answer for the rape of his own daughter...my Aunt was called to testify by the District Attorney...she consulted with the elders first and informed me that she would refuse to testify "if" the elders said no. I was awestruck by this. How could a mother hesitate to protect her own children?!!! I studied with my Aunt for a year and a half with the Live For Ever in Paradise book. I never felt comfortable with the concept of being submissive or with the idea of turning my back on people who had treated me with kindness just because they are considered "worldly". I thought Jesus walked amongst and talked with everyone...including the wicked. When I refused to be baptized in the "truth" my Aunt didn't speak to me for almost two years. I'm a person who has never harmed a child, I don't smoke, I don't use illegal drugs, I don't have illicit sex, I don't use profanity and I've never committed any crimes...unlike my Aunt's husband...and I'm the one she doesn't associate with because I'm not in the "TRUTH." May you stay strong in your "TRUTH" to protect children from abuse!!! -Ranita Wilks ILS/Peer Counseling Specialist Lawrence, Kansas.

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
20:49:57
Comments
I am glad that someone has done this website,I offer all the support I can & will help further the cause in my own town. Former witness-Jenifer Adams, scorpio59872@webtv.net

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
21:37:03
Comments
Hey everybody!!!!! Haven't posted in a while, sorry about that. Just wanted everyone to know I am still here. I just haven't felt the need to post lately. I do still read the posts all the time. By the way, I will be starting college in Aug. I passed the exam and will be on my way to becoming a social worker. I send my love to everyone. Love Jesika Thoman Dallas, Tx

Remote User:
Date:
25 Jul 2002
Time:
23:46:22
Comments
Ranita: The wicked are the Elders and your aunt - that is wicked. A baby raped is wicked, no one coming to the aid of the child is wicked, a woman staying married to a "thing" that would do this to a baby let alone one of her own is wicked. Jesus doesn't walk with these kinds of wicked people - worldly people are not wicked per se. But JW's think they are special and that Jehovah loves them and no one else. Can you imagine what Jesus thinks and feels about what happen to that baby? If we as humans feel so much grief, can you imagine how much grief Jesus must feel? *** Thank you for taking the time to write your post. It means a lot to all of us. Have you emailed Bill Bowen? I will copy your letter and email it if you don't mind. *** you are correct that this sick "love" is wrong and harmful, backwards and makes no sense. To be submissive to wickedness is exactly what the adversary wants - Jesus does not want that. He wants us to be submissive to what is right and good - just like you are already. *** Aren't you happy you had enough sense to see the hypocrisy and you are submissive to what is right and good? Jehovah hates hypocrisy - and there is always the element of deception in hypocrisy. God hates a liar, Satan is the father of the lie- and you and me hate deception, hate lies and hypocrisy because our father is Jehovah. Amen, Soap Box aka Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
00:24:43
Comments
Raping a baby is not considered enough grounds for divorce...but "adultery" is? The Elders need to go to jail and are as sick as the thing that did this to the baby and the mother is as sick as the thing that did this to her baby...I am extremely upset by this story. Extremely. And you could not pay me to associate with a JW, go to a KH or read anything they print...This is not God's organization. I don't like Hilary Clinton but she said that it takes a community to raise a child - and WTS slogan should be it takes a community to RAPE AND RUIN a child- it took a teenage babysitter to call the authorities because the "Christians" are too busy being submissive to their god to bother themselves with a baby. Even animals have the instinct to protect. These people are less than animals - with their two witnesses. They are not welcomed at my door anymore. I am so upset, angry...you know low life doesn't get any lower than this...it just doesn't. I am so ashamed that I was ever associated with them - yuck. Bill as always thank you for silentlambs - it is amazing how many there are. I really appreciate how noble you are and I know that not many are like you. >>> Claudine <<<

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
04:10:16
Comments
A few years back when I was still a JW an elder Wally Drurry gave a talk about child molestation in Fairview Congregation and warned us that there is a sexual predator among us. He scared us all and played havoc on us that had children because he did not reveal who the molester was. I worried a lot about my 4 children and eventually asked him who that molester is. He would not say. The elders are guilty and must be sued as well. My children enjoyed having friends over night and staying with others overnight in their homes. And inadvertently sometimes in the house of that molester as I found out later . RMNK

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
08:28:09
Comments
After reading the email regarding this = I'd be grateful if you can put us in touch with any support groups in Australia or individuals who may not be abuse victims themselves but have a grasp of the problem here. I thought that if all of us could go into websites, post this in them, go into Christian chat rooms let them know what's going on, it may help. It's really all I can think of that I can do to assist! I went in a Christian chat room this morning, one based in Australia; they were very nice and perceptive! They welcomed me and said bravo for the stand that Mr. Bowen and Mrs. Anderson took. One person told me not to gossip and I told them “I am not gossiping, this is a call to stop child abuse!” They immediately said they were sorry and said that I was right! This may not bear fruit, BUT IT MIGHT HELP! When I get home I'm going to find as many message boards as I can, as many chat rooms as I can and I am going to do what I can to get this public at least over the internet! If all of us did this no telling how far we can go! This might have been suggested before, sorry if I didn't see it. I JUST HAVE TO DO SOMETHING! If anyone thinks this is a bad idea please let me know, I don't want to hinder this battle in anyway! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
09:41:43
Comments
Jesika, Way to go ! Cheer Cheer clap clap Sheila

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
09:45:30
Comments
My heart goes out to EVERYONE that has been abused by the Watchtower Society, Elders, Overseers and as well as those who are instructed to shun the victims. But I must say, as one of their victims, I would rather be the victim than the perpetrator. May our loving Creator forgive all of you. "Only persons truly responsible for injustice prefer silence and seek to impose it" ReBecca JWsign@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
14:53:12
Comments
Hi this is in fact the first time i ever heard of this website. i discovered it while i was on the web. there are some things that i liked and some things that i thought was disturbing based on my knowledge about Jehovah's. i recently got baptized in the circuit convention this past may 25, 2002. that was the happiest day of my life. what really shocked me was when my cousin called me and informed me that there was elders sexually abusing girls. i never thought that Jehovah's servants would actually do such things. anyhow that in fact gave more faith in Jehovah's because he is now illuminating his light to the world and proving that not everybody will be saved and not everybody will be with Jehovah's, instead they lie with Satan's the devil. although i feel that people that are studying with the Jehovah's witnesses could weaken their faith with Jehovah's, but at the same time it is not Jehovah's's fault that all these event are taken place. as we know the governor of this world is Satan's the devil, and he is trying to trap as many people he could so that they won't be on Jehovah's's side. anyhow i sure know that Satan's will not win this battle. Jehovah's god will win this battle definitely. i have high hopes for that. i am glad that discovering this event with such elders has strengthen my faith, now i have more reason to want to get to know Jehovah's and want to teach others about the truth. not everybody is perfect, but if we want to please god and be saved we have to make an effort to do things right for oneself and for god. we live for him. and to survive in this world. these men that are so called molesting these girls will get their punishment, either with the police or Jehovah's. but everybody has a choice in life and they are entitled to do what fits best. as for the victims they should go to the authorities because it is against the law for men or women to do such things to minors. for those that do know god set forth these authorities and we need to obey the laws. so personally we have to follow the rules. the victims that are in a stage of fright and there no doubt that they are going to stay shut instead speak up. meanwhile this is not Jehovah's's fault so don't turn against him instead trust in him with all of your heart. he is here for us . if you want to believe it or not. i don't ever want to be against the only true creator Jehovah's. god forbid. he is my friend and i will defend his name any time, place day, and hour. remember JEHOVAH'S LOVES EACH AND EVERYONE OF YOU'S, DON'T BE AGAINST HIM INSTEAD BE HIS FRIEND AND LOVE HIM... *** BOSTON, RAQCKY(17) JULY 26, 2002

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
15:01:20
Comments
What the heck is going on here? Why are there so many questions that child molesters should be turned in to the police? Once a person has suspected that a child is molested, why is there a QUESTION, in God's green earth, that he/she should be turned in to the police? I cannot UNDERSTAND this. Whether you are prompted by the law, or not, you should, by your own Christian conduct turn a suspected child molester in to the police. What is the problem with that?

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
15:09:16
Comments
It's nice that you are all happy on your throne of judgment... but what about all who have professed here? What of all the silent lambs? Do you think Jehovah would want for them to always be quiet and accept what happens to them? No.. he wouldn't. You know why? Because Jehovah is just the example we look to. Do you think, as a loving God, that he would want us to just wait when we have the opportunity of Caesar's laws to protect us? No. Do you think that he would want for children to suffer needlessly? No, not as a loving God he wouldn't. He wants us to use our God given knowledge to protect ourselves and our children. He wants us to be just like him: just. So that is what is happening now.

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
18:37:46
Comments
Dear Bill, I'm grateful for what you've done on behalf of those suffering for Watch Tower policy on dealing with pedophiles. I too tried to help other victims of other wrong policies within the organization and for this reason I'm going to be removed as an elder. Berto from Italy oregon-2002@libero.it

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
19:15:09
Comments
There's more than one way to ‘skin a cat'! Another way to get the response needed here is to have a public outcry in the greatest proportions! I know that this is a “battle” to fight for the lambs, another way though to make this public is to make sure the public is aware that this policy will also have detrimental affects on them. If the average non-JW is faced with the possibility that the org's policies could hurt them and theirs you will have the outcry needed to help the lambs. To do this is to stress that the policy allows for these child monsters into the average home! Door-to-Door ministry, allowing a known offender to continue with this “non-responsible” position is putting the public in harms way. Could it not have positive affects if this is made known to the general public? Would this not hinder door-to-door success, thereby causing the ‘discreet slaves' to question just “What is going on”? I think so. If it is made known to the public that when they open the door to a witness they may be opening the door to a pervert, sent with blessings from their congregation they would CRY OUT LOUDLY! Who cares if they are with another witness? At this point I would have to ask a witness who approached me, “Which one of you are the perv?” I sincerely feel that I am not alone in this, BUT in order for other people to know this it has to brought to their attention. Most people will read in the paper, Oh, another child molested, or oh, look the jws are having some problems. BUT if they read in the papers, PERV JWS KNOCKING ON YOUR DOOR?, or, JWS ALLOW KNOWN MOLESTERS TO MINISTER TO YOU! That would get some much-needed attention. Then all the innocent unknowing jws will wonder why their ministry is down, why the hours that they used to put in with bible studies is getting lower and lower! That would get their attention, which would make them ask questions to their elders, which in turn would make the wrong policies ‘New Light' for the discreet slaves. I was in a JW chat room and no one had heard of the march in September! Not one single person (JW) was aware of what was happening! LOL they kicked me out for not answering a question that I wasn't even sure was directed at me! But I was able to let them know that there is a march against the org in September! That cannot hurt! I bet if they had to report all time lows with ‘time served' they would take a second look. MAKE THE PUBLIC AWARE WORLD WIDE THAT THEY ARE OPENING THE DOORS AND LETTING POTENTIAL DANGER INTO THEIR HOMES! Then the lamb fight will be just a little easier. What do you all think?

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
22:19:03
Comments
This is all about an organization that is most concerned about appearing like "The only true religion". This is only the tip of the iceberg. They have made themselves look foolish over the years by predicting the end of the system. They can't back up their bible translation with qualified people. Their Good News is not Christ died for our sins. The Watchtowers good news is the world is so bad. It is a different gospel that replaces salvation through Christ with jumping on board ship with the Watchtower organization. So the Organization must appear Christ like. The problem is it is not. That is why I feel they must cover up. It's bad for their image. It's bad for the religion business.

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
23:30:36
Comments
Hi Rachel, My name is Mike and I too am from Boston. I've been a witness for 25 years. Your comments lead me to believe that you never suffered from the hands of an abuser. My wife was repeatedly raped by her father who is in good standing.The rapes occurred when she was 10 years old till she was 16. She was told by the elders to wait on Jehovah and not go to the authorities. This man continued to rape her for 2 more years after the elders were told. He could have been sitting right next to you at the meeting but you wouldn't have known it. So you tell me, Do you blame the elders for what happened or do you blame Jehovah for waiting so long before he used the good elders to expose this problem? It has been suggested that this problem has been allowed to exist in the congregation so that Jehovah can clean out his organization. That is sick thinking!! Anyone who has been raped and went to the elders for help, deserves to get help. A crime was committed and reported to the elders but the elders just filed it away. Don't you think that in order to keep the congregation clean, the elders should have gotten rid of the criminal.!!!!!

Remote User:
Date:
26 Jul 2002
Time:
23:30:51
Comments
Hi Rachel, My name is Mike and I too am from Boston. I've been a witness for 25 years. Your comments lead me to believe that you never suffered from the hands of an abuser. My wife was repeatedly raped by her father who is in good standing.The rapes occurred when she was 10 years old till she was 16. She was told by the elders to wait on Jehovah and not go to the authorities. This man continued to rape her for 2 more years after the elders were told. He could have been sitting right next to you at the meeting but you wouldn't have known it. So you tell me, Do you blame the elders for what happened or do you blame Jehovah for waiting so long before he used the good elders to expose this problem? It has been suggested that this problem has been allowed to exist in the congregation so that Jehovah can clean out his organization. That is sick thinking!! Anyone who has been raped and went to the elders for help, deserves to get help. A crime was committed and reported to the elders but the elders just filed it away. Don't you think that in order to keep the congregation clean, the elders should have gotten rid of the criminal.!!!!!

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
05:50:55
Comments
AUSTRALIAN ABUSE SURVIVORS!!!!! From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Fri, 26 Jul 2002 00:51:38 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: FW: Attention Bill Bowen --- All Australia abuse survivors, NOW IS YOUR TIME TO ROAR! Email the address below to bring this issue to your country. Regards, bill --- Original Message --- From: Davis, Graham [mailto:gdavis@nine.com.au Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 12:20 AM To: 'info@silentlambs.org' Subject: Attention Bill Bowen Hi Bill, I'm to report the Nine Network Sunday story on child abuse in the ranks of the Jehovah's Witness. We have bought the rights to the Panorama story and plan to do a local version as well. So we're very anxious to find Australian cases and accounts of cover-ups here. I hope you can help. I'd be grateful if you can put us in touch with any support groups in Australia or individuals who may not be abuse victims themselves but have a grasp of the problem here. We are doing our utmost to uncover cases ourselves but you will naturally be way ahead of the pack on this. Sunday is a prestigious weekly program that eschews sensationalism and can be relied on to treat abuse victims with confidentiality and respect. This is clearly a global problem but we'd like to do our little bit "down under". Thank you and best wishes, Graham Davis

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
05:52:56
Comments
SUPPORT SILENT LAMBS!!! Friday, July 26, 2002 Paducah, Kentucky Bowen learns of disfellowship The former Jehovah's Witness elder said he will appeal the decision, but he expects his appeal to be denied. . By C.D. Bradley cdbradley@paducahsun.com--270.575.8650 . Bowen (pic) DRAFFENVILLE, Ky.--Former Jehovah's Witness elder Bill Bowen, who resigned the leadership position in December 2000 to protest the church's handling of child molestation cases, was disfellowshipped after a brief hearing Wednesday night, he said Thursday. Bowen said Jeff Steen of Murray, one of three elders on the committee, called him Thursday morning, but Bowen told the elders to communicate with his attorney, Rush Hunt of Madisonville, and hung up. Bowen said Steen then called Hunt and said Bowen had been disfellowshipped but provided no other information. Neither Steen, nor the other elders on the panel — George Bandarra of Murray and Ron Carey of Central City — returned phone messages Thursday. Bowen has said the church protects pedophiles by not reporting accusations to police and encouraging victims not to go to authorities to discuss the matter with anyone in the congregation. The church has denied any wrongdoing and claims it follows the law. Bowen said he plans to appeal the decision, made at a hearing that Bowen had asked be rescheduled and was held without him. Bowen said he was across the street from the Kingdom Hall and the elders locked the door and blocked the windows. He added that the three elders appeared to be the only people present. "The thing they have nailed to the wall is that they require two eyewitnesses before a child molester may be convicted" in the church, Bowen said. "I have flatly denied these charges against me, and they brought no witnesses against me. It's a vast inconsistency in the organization. If I was a child molester, they wouldn't have had a hearing. Because I'm a person who spoke out to protect children, they disfellowship me in 30 minutes." Bowen said he received the return receipt from a letter Hunt mailed asking that the meeting be rescheduled so that his witnesses, coming from all over the country, could attend. "They've stepped over about all their protocols, so I think they'll ignore my request for an appeal," Bowen said. Bowen said being disfellowshipped — which requires Witnesses, including family members, to shun him — is the religion's equivalent of death. "From my standpoint, the real crime is not disfellowshipping me," Bowen said. "The real crime is, now they're going to silence anyone in the organization who needs help or support. They will face disfellowshipping for logging onto the Web site." Bowen, who started a support group for Witness abuse victims at www.silentlambs.org, said visitors to the site are split about evenly between current and former Witnesses. Bowen becomes the fourth Witness disfellowshipped this year for speaking out on the issue, following Barbara Anderson, of Normandy, Tenn., and Carl and Barbara Pandello, of Belmar, N.J.

Remote User:
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27 Jul 2002
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05:54:12
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FROM THE NEW YORK TIMES ONLINE: July 26, 2002 Ex - Elder Dropped for Abuse Comments By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS Filed at 6:29 a.m. ET DRAFFENVILLE, Ky. (AP) -- A lifelong Jehovah's Witness said he was expelled from the tight-knit religious group after publicly criticizing the church's handling of allegations of child sex abuse. William Bowen, a former church elder, said he was excommunicated -- or disfellowshipped, as the denomination calls it -- after a brief hearing Wednesday. A judicial committee member contacted Bowen's lawyer on Thursday to relay the judgment but provided no further information, Bowen said. Committee members did not return calls seeking comment. Bowen complains that child-sex allegations are generally not reported to secular authorities by the Jehovah's Witnesses because of the church's closed nature and its insistence on handling problems internally. Bowen said he plans to appeal the decision, which was made at a closed hearing where he was not present. ``From my standpoint, the real crime is not disfellowshipping me,'' Bowen said. ``The real crime is, now they're going to silence anyone in the organization who needs help or support.'' Being disfellowshipped requires members to shun the person who has been expelled. Bowen is the fourth Jehovah's Witness disfellowshipped this year for speaking out on the issue. http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/national/AP-Jehovahs-Witnesses.html On the Net: Abuse victims: www.silentlambs.org

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
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05:56:18
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Help to publicize the plight of Bowen <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33154&site=3> I have added more information about Jehovah's Witnesses and sexual abuse to my Salon blog, here: http://blogs.salon.com/0001138/ Thanks to everyone's efforts yesterday, my blog is now in the top 20 at Salon. The people associated with Salon are the movers and shakers of the media, including writers of op-ed pieces for the NY Times, etc. This can motivate much more press coverage. Please go to the blog and use the "comment" links to tell the world your feelings about abuse among the JW's. Thanks, Mike Pence

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
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05:58:18
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YOU CAN GET INVOLVED! Here are some threads of letter writing campaigns: --- LuckyLucy has a thread going: Bill deserves more from us!!! <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33150&site=3> --- RubyTuesday has a thread going: Media Links (for NBC and MSNBC): <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33135&site=3> --- mikepence also has a thread going: Help to publicize the plight of Bowen <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33154&site=3> --- OrangeFatCat has a thread going: Letters of Outrage to Governing Body: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/post.asp?id=437471&method=reply&site=3 --- Amazing has a similar thread going also: Need Help - New JW Pedophile Project <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33163&site=3> --- And DakotaRed's letter to the WTS is located at: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33198&site=3 --- And MacHislopp scanned in an EXCELLENT run of all news reports and WT comments re: the Catholic Church's scandal over the past 10-15 years. We all should copy that list of remarks and attach it to our letters to WTS AND TO THE MEDIA so they can see what the WT has been saying all these years about the CC while covering up their own filthy sandbox. Mac's thread is here: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33077&site=3 --- YoursChelbie has a thread: Watchtower in NY By Law has to turn in Pedo-Files <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33059&site=3>

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27 Jul 2002
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06:35:36
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Hi Bonnielynn! Thanks for the greeting. Glad to see you've been holding down the fort! Lots of new visitors it looks like. And I say "Go For It" as far as posting in every chat room and forum you can find. It's not only an educational work, but also a plea for justice, and a public service announcement, too! One lady made up index cards saying www.silentlambs.org and the words "STOP CHILD ABUSE", and then went to the District Convention in her town and dropped the index cards into the money boxes, and bathrooms, and anywhere she could think of! --- I forget, did your post say Australia? You could also post those two emails from SIlentLambs about those two reporters looking for abuse survivors in Australia (see previous Guestbook posts in July). And for anyone else visiting/reading, on the HOME PAGE under "How can I help?" or "Assistance" (I forget which) is a list of how people can help, possibly taking out a little Pennysaver ad with a short message like the above index card. There are also bulletin boards for most City websites around the country, etc. Keep up the good work!!! --- Claudine! You expressed it perfectly re: that post about the 3 year old being raped by the perv married to the JW lady. That woman has BIG PROBLEMS. That story right there just made my adrenaline shoot right back to the sky! The fact that the woman is so BRAINWASHED she would even THINK to NOT testify against her pervert husband ON BEHALF OF HER CHILD, nor to get her kids AWAY from the perv, etc. SICKENING! Arrrggghhhh! That example is ENOUGH to keep the lambs ROARING. That woman should be put in jail herself for NEGLECT and CHILD ENDANGERMENT! --- Hi Linda! Yes, good idea to put any posts you read and/or write which you like in an email or document and save. I think the former Guestbook page got TOO BIG. I'm not sure if that is what caused the problem or not, but maybe. Parts of July 9th, then all of July 10-19th, and parts of July 20th were wiped out. It was soooo sad as that was the time period right before and after PANORAMA show. Bummer! I only had like a few posts from two different days that I was able to repost, ones I was going to reply to or whatever. And your Drumroll Please! comment cracked me up! --- Loris! How's it going? Great post you wrote the other day! And Thanks again for the BOE letter in text! Still working on it! --- Penny! Are you still out there? How are you? --- Jesika! Congrats on going to college! --- Mr. MOLE! Thanks for your family story! :-( But Glad to hear from you!! --- Mike! Thanks for that earlier post EXPLAINING what kinds of things REALLY HAPPEN! --- DJB! Glad to read your post! --- Jazzbug, thanks for that UPDATE on Andrew Vacchs!!! I love that guy! --- Welcome to "From The Battlefield" and "Anointed One" and "Spokane," as I don't recall seeing those names before. --- Spokane mentioned a press conference? I guess we will hear about it soon enough! --- Greetings to Italian Momma! --- Also, bravo to the Italian (I think) brother who wrote that he was speaking up on behalf of these issues and is now in trouble with the ORG. --- That Paul Berry - what a despicable human being!!! --- To Social Club: Thanks for your comments! Who are these elders telling you these things? Are they "in" or "out"? --- Greetings to Sheila and RMNK also!!! --- Also Veggie Man, I loved your story! I need to go visit your site and see whaaas up! --- Later/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
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06:38:56
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FBI - Someone in a recent post asked about or mentioned the FBI. Please go back to June 13, and look for a post with ALL of the FBI links and write them, or call them!!! Thanks/SLC

Remote User:
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27 Jul 2002
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06:39:43
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THANKS to the Webmaster and Silent Lambs for breaking up the July posts! This is SO GREAT NOW as the page loads in SO MUCH FASTER! This is fantastic!!! /SLC

Remote User:
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27 Jul 2002
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06:50:12
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BOWEN DF'D IN ABSENTIA! I'm sure everyone received the newspaper articles and emails by now that the judicial committee met anyway on Wed. night (having ignored B.Bowen's request to reschedule it on a weekend so HIS witnesses would have time to appear on his behalf; the JC never replying to it at all) and DF'd Bro Bowen without him even being present and without them presenting two witnesses to Bowen's "spiritual crimes." That is SOME JUSTICE! (I'm sure when Bro Bowen was baptized years ago, they had not yet perverted the baptismal vows with the LEGALISTIC-CATCH-ALL-SCAPE-GOAT-PHRASE & INCLUSION in 1985 of "baptism in the name of the Father, the Son and Jehovah's Spirit-Directed Organization." So what is his spiritual crime? Speaking up and against the WTS Pedophile Policy? Woe to those who are saying bad is good and good is bad! --- From all the survivors and advocates on the side of the Lambs, we hope Bro Bowen & Family are doing OK! -- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
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06:54:17
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LETTER WRITING CAMPAIGN: Some of the folks at Jehovahs-Witnesses.com are organizing letter writing campaigns. I posted the links a little further up. Go check them out, Visitors TOO! Everyone can write & say something, to your Letters to the Editor of your local paper, to national news & TV websites, to radio personalities, and last but not least, the GB of the WTBTS themselves! Their names and addresses will be posted on Monday at those links above. Also, someone posted a list of about 10-15 EMAIL ADDY'S for the WTBTS! You can send EMAIL and someone at Bethel WILL read them! --- And, as mentioned above/prior post, there is a great list of WT quotes re: the Catholic Church that is such a blatant GLARING condemnation of the WTS themselves! Don't miss that link! -- Love/SLC

Remote User:
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27 Jul 2002
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07:54:40
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REAL REASON WHY ELDERS WON'T REPORT [CHILD ABUSE & OTHER CRIMES] --- A FORUM POST BY "AMAZING":

--- <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32976&site=3> ---

What has been said up to now about the JW Elders taking direction from the Governing Body to not be the worlds police and also protecting the image of the organization is all true, but only part of the root cause of the problem ... until the root cause is cured, child molesters and other criminals among Jehovah's Witnesses will go unreported ... and this will lead to their demise as an organization. --- The root cause of the problem is this: JWs, and no less the Elders, believe that they are: Jehovah's Organization Jehovah's Covenant People Jehovah's Servants Jehovah's Congregation Jehovah's Nation Jehovah's Channel of Communication Jehovah's Source of Truth Jehovah's Agency --- And, they have Jehovah's Spirit, Direction, Guidance, Approval, Blessing, Love, and ... THE ONLY CURE FOR ALL THE ILLS OF ALL HUMANKIND !!! --- Just where else could a JW Pedophile ever get True Help, Jehovah's Spirit, and have any hope of being CURED? ... and what will truly help a JW Pedophile in these last days, more than anything the WORLD under Satan's Direction could do? When I tried to first report a JW pedophile, this is what I was told, that by reporting it would not help the JW Pedophile, but isolate him from the only source of real help ... and then added that we are not the world's police, etc. and the CO said not to report. --- The All-Important Cure for JW Pedophiles to get Jehovah's Spirit is to: --- Attend Meetings, Assemblies, and Conventions regularly Study the publications of the FDS (GB) Associate with Jehovah's People Prepare for the Meetings, especially the Watchtower Study Comment at Meetings Share in Preaching the Good News of Jehovah's Kingdom Pray to Jehovah the True God for His Spirit and Help --- If the Society, through its Elders were to really take the time and energy to report JW Pedophiles to the Worldly Authorities, this would be a MOST SERIOUS ADMISSION ... that is: --- It would be an admission that Jehovah and His organization and Jehovah's Spirit were all inadequate to really help a JW Pedophile. And, while having an effect on their IMAGE ... It would have a FAR GREATER AFFECT ON THEIR CORE BELIEFS ABOUT THEIR ROLE IN HUMAN AFFAIRS AND THEIR STANDING BEFORE THEIR GOD JEHOVAH'S ... it would also be an Admission that in order to get real help, the WORLD, whom they view as directly under Satan's control is BETTER EQUIPPED to deal with Pedophiles, and has a better understanding of the problem. When a person or their group CORE BELIEFS are seriously attacked, they tend to circle the wagons of denial and fight rather then admit they are in error and accept defeat. --- This is the reason that the WTS, its GB, and Elders, and JW members cannot report JW Pedophiles to the authorities, because the ultimate risk to their beliefs is at stake... and with that may also be the fear of civil lawsuits, which if successful, could bring financial ruin to Jehovah's Organization. While the leadership may be more concerned with the money, however, the average JW and local Elders would see this as Jehovah's punishment and maybe withdrawal of his support for their Organization, or possibly they would go deeper into denial and see this as Satan persecuting them. --- Either way, they lose ... and the only thing that will get them out of this rut will be to either wise up and see the Organization and its core beliefs as the problem, or for the Organization to lead them to a better, more moderate place in their spiritual journey.

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
08:18:59
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DRAFFENVILLE, Ky.--Former Jehovah's Witness elder Bill Bowen, who resigned the leadership position in December 2000 to protest the church's handling of child molestation cases, was disfellowshipped after a brief hearing Wednesday night, he said Thursday. Bowen said Jeff Steen of Murray, one of three elders on the committee, called him Thursday morning, but Bowen told the elders to communicate with his attorney, Rush Hunt of Madisonville, and hung up. Bowen said Steen then called Hunt and said Bowen had been disfellowshipped but provided no other information. Neither Steen, nor the other elders on the panel — George Bandarra of Murray and Ron Carey of Central City — returned phone messages Thursday. Bowen has said the church protects pedophiles by not reporting accusations to police and encouraging victims not to go to authorities to discuss the matter with anyone in the congregation. The church has denied any wrongdoing and claims it follows the law. Bowen said he plans to appeal the decision, made at a hearing that Bowen had asked be rescheduled and was held without him. Bowen said he was across the street from the Kingdom Hall and the elders locked the door and blocked the windows. He added that the three elders appeared to be the only people present. "The thing they have nailed to the wall is that they require two eyewitnesses before a child molester may be convicted" in the church, Bowen said. "I have flatly denied these charges against me, and they brought no witnesses against me. It's a vast inconsistency in the organization. If I was a child molester, they wouldn't have had a hearing. Because I'm a person who spoke out to protect children, they disfellowship me in 30 minutes." Bowen said he received the return receipt from a letter Hunt mailed asking that the meeting be rescheduled so that his witnesses, coming from all over the country, could attend. "They've stepped over about all their protocols, so I think they'll ignore my request for an appeal," Bowen said. Bowen said being disfellowshipped — which requires Witnesses, including family members, to shun him — is the religion's equivalent of death. "From my standpoint, the real crime is not disfellowshipping me," Bowen said. "The real crime is, now they're going to silence anyone in the organization who needs help or support. They will face disfellowshipping for logging onto the Web site." Bowen, who started a support group for Witness abuse victims at www.silentlambs.org, said visitors to the site are split about evenly between current and former Witnesses. Bowen becomes the fourth Witness disfellowshipped this year for speaking out on the issue, following Barbara Anderson, of Normandy, Tenn., and Carl and Barbara Pandello, of Belmar, N.J.

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
08:19:09
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DRAFFENVILLE, Ky.--Former Jehovah's Witness elder Bill Bowen, who resigned the leadership position in December 2000 to protest the church's handling of child molestation cases, was disfellowshipped after a brief hearing Wednesday night, he said Thursday. Bowen said Jeff Steen of Murray, one of three elders on the committee, called him Thursday morning, but Bowen told the elders to communicate with his attorney, Rush Hunt of Madisonville, and hung up. Bowen said Steen then called Hunt and said Bowen had been disfellowshipped but provided no other information. Neither Steen, nor the other elders on the panel — George Bandarra of Murray and Ron Carey of Central City — returned phone messages Thursday. Bowen has said the church protects pedophiles by not reporting accusations to police and encouraging victims not to go to authorities to discuss the matter with anyone in the congregation. The church has denied any wrongdoing and claims it follows the law. Bowen said he plans to appeal the decision, made at a hearing that Bowen had asked be rescheduled and was held without him. Bowen said he was across the street from the Kingdom Hall and the elders locked the door and blocked the windows. He added that the three elders appeared to be the only people present. "The thing they have nailed to the wall is that they require two eyewitnesses before a child molester may be convicted" in the church, Bowen said. "I have flatly denied these charges against me, and they brought no witnesses against me. It's a vast inconsistency in the organization. If I was a child molester, they wouldn't have had a hearing. Because I'm a person who spoke out to protect children, they disfellowship me in 30 minutes." Bowen said he received the return receipt from a letter Hunt mailed asking that the meeting be rescheduled so that his witnesses, coming from all over the country, could attend. "They've stepped over about all their protocols, so I think they'll ignore my request for an appeal," Bowen said. Bowen said being disfellowshipped — which requires Witnesses, including family members, to shun him — is the religion's equivalent of death. "From my standpoint, the real crime is not disfellowshipping me," Bowen said. "The real crime is, now they're going to silence anyone in the organization who needs help or support. They will face disfellowshipping for logging onto the Web site." Bowen, who started a support group for Witness abuse victims at www.silentlambs.org, said visitors to the site are split about evenly between current and former Witnesses. Bowen becomes the fourth Witness disfellowshipped this year for speaking out on the issue, following Barbara Anderson, of Normandy, Tenn., and Carl and Barbara Pandello, of Belmar, N.J.

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
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08:55:04
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SHAME ON THESE JWs: From the Holly Berry Court Case, names of those who testified as character witnesses for Paul Berry. (taken from Public Court Records) --- Paul Berry HALL OF SHAME --- 1) Joyce Saunders, 2) Rita Rivard, 3) Bob Ward, 4) Paul Ward, 5) Susan Ward 6) Shirley Roby, 7) Mike Earhardt, 8) Renata Earhardt, 9) Jean Mirona 10)Robin Nolan 11)Jessica Ellis, 12)Erin (Corcoran 13)Sharon Ellis 14)Janet Dube, 15)Mike Dube, 16)Derek Hilpin, 17)Jose Rodriguez 18)Thomas Quigley, 19)David Garey, 20)James Hilton, 21)Gail Hilton, 22)Dean Foucher, 23)Wendi Herman, 24)Carla Ranchela, 25)Heidi Hearne, 26)Pat Hearne, 27) Robert Michalowski, 28) Shannon Christian 29) Ryan (Unknown)

--- <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=32617&site=3>

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
09:52:34
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Did God approve of the kidnapping and raping of girls, the heartless separating of families, and the cruel beatings that were part and parcel of the slave trade of McCaine's day? And what of the millions who are forced to live and work as slaves under brutal conditions today? Does God condone such inhumane treatment? WOE HERE, WAIT JUST ONE MINUTE, DO THESE ‘HEAD OF THE NEW SYSTEM OF THINGS EVEN READ WHAT THEY PRINT? ‘raping of girls, and (boys) by molesters' ‘separating of families by disfellowshipping of the jws who speak out against such slavery rituals' ‘and the MILLIONS of faithful discreet slaves of the wt org' the cruel ‘beating into submission' ... The Bible tells us that the Egyptians "kept making their life bitter with hard slavery at clay mortar and bricks and with every form of slavery in the field, yes, every form of slavery of theirs in which they used them as slaves under tyranny." THEN WHO MUST BE THE EGYPTIANS TODAY? THE ONES WHO HIDE THE ABUSERS, WHO MAKE SLAVES OF THEIR CONGREGATION? "God heard their groaning and God remembered his covenant with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob." Furthermore, Jehovah told his people: "I shall certainly bring you out from under the burdens of the Egyptians and deliver you from their slavery YEAH!!! Clearly, Jehovah did not approve of 'man dominating man' through abusive slavery THEN WHY DO THE JWS DO IT? The Bible gives no indication that the enslavement of humans by other humans was part of God's original purpose for mankind. Furthermore, no Bible prophecies allude to humans owning fellow humans through slavery in God's new world AGAIN, WHY DO THE JWS DO IT NOW? Clearly, the Bible does not condone the ill-treatment of others in any form. On the contrary, it encourages respect and equality among men. (Acts 10:34, 35) It exhorts humans to treat others the way that they would like to be treated. (Luke 6:31) SO WHERE IS THE RESPECT, THE EQUALITY WITHIN THE ORG? Some people talk the talk but don't walk the walk! Shame Shame Shame!!

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
09:54:48
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About Bowen being DF'd Jul 27, 2002 10:37

Hi Xxx: You said:... you couldn't pay me enough money to stay in the Wt organization. It would be torture to the tenth degree! LOL ...My response: ... I'm responding because you struck a powerful chord with me. First of all, let me say I agree. This is the way I feel about the WTS and all of their lies and cut-throat tactics. Actually what you have said has been on my mind for my years now. I've wondered, why, oh why would anybody WANT to stay in, after learning about the real WTS. To me, it would be real "torture to the tenth degree", just as you've said. But indulge me for one moment. For I think this thing really goes deeper, much deeper, as to why, so many stay in. You see, when pondering your thought above, I began to think of all of the Circuit Overseers, Districts Overseers, Missionaries in foreign lands -- trapped in the WTS organization. I thought of all of Bethel Branch personnel and other Bethelites of high standing, trapped. As you know, many WTS "high officials" are actually secret-supporters of what Bill Bowen stands for. They know the WTS policies on child abuse as well as many other things, are flat wrong and harm many innocent ones. These brothers know this. They also know many other things, such bible dogma like 1914, is completely wrong too. (As I recall, these "high officials" were the real creators of "AJWR" and "H2O" discussion boards 6-7 years ago. They used to meet in the "chatrooms" at H2O and discuss reform "strategy" for the organization years ago.) And I'm told that many are still staunch reformers and want to see change in the organization. I know this might sound baffling, but this true. "So what's the problem", many may wonder. Actually, when you think about it, we see the WTS has a powerful tool, holding these people back -- FINANCES! Money. These pitiful people are monetarily completely dependent upon the WTS for their every need. Virtually, they are "owned" lock, stock & barrel by the WTS/G.B. They all are. We must ask ourselves in the wake of all of things we see going on within the walls of "Borg", what are these people thinking? What are they to do? How are these "high officials" of the WTS, in whom almost all of them aged and yet are married and have a wife to care for, and are COMPLETELY DEPENDENT upon the WTS for financial resources, if they get d'fd/da, how are they going to make a living and provide for themselves? That's after giving over 40 years of your life to a worthless entity as the WTS is. We remember, many of these men are up in age, and have paid nothing into Social Security. And like a puff of smoke, 40 years down-the-drain to the WTS empire. They are left with nothing! They are completely helpless in this cold, cold world. No doubt, many of these high officials who want change, but have lost faith in Jehovah completely to remedy the situation. So, if they leave the organization, they don't feel they will get help "from on high", if you know what I mean. After all, the WTS doesn't have God, do they? That's the whole point of leaving in the first place. So it must real, reeeeeaaaaalllll torture to them, to feel like, they have to stay in, even they we know, they really HATE what they see happening to Bill Bowen and the "silentlambs" movement. And many many other things too, they hate. But they have to endure it. Whereas you and I, if we hate something, we don't have to take it, do we? No but we can simply decide to leave. And go about making our personal "recovery" and whatever that entails. We are still relatively young, most of us have gained a "trade" or professional skill that pays well, in our modern day society, if you are over 25 years or so. That should be the case. And if we are even younger than that, we can go back to school learn something. We'd be stupid not to do so. We are still relatively young. We can recover. But what do these pitiful Circuit/ District Overseers, lamentable Bethelites and Missionaries who have given all of their lives to this "preaching" work of falsehood, what do they have? Even now, they are talking about getting rid of over 1,000 of them in Brooklyn real soon. That's 1,000, overnight. And when the announcement was made, we noticed nobody volunteered to go home. Hardly no volunteered because they know what it means for them, financially. Total disaster. So the WTS is going to have to "throw" some of them out, 1,000 of them. "Kick them to the curb" out in the cold, cold world. So imagine what it would be like, it they were d'fd/da to go with that. Nobody in the world knows you. Your spiritual brothers would not help. In some cases, family can't help because if they are of the world, you've already ostracized them totally. And if they are JWs, they will shun you complete and let you die on the streets. So, you are on your own, in the cold, cold world with no help in sight. These "high officials" must reason, after all, if Jehovah God had nothing to do with their 40 year "ministry", or Bethel life in the first place, so then what's the rush. Might as well stay at Bethel and continue the "charade", keep up the farce, keep "living the lie". Nobody else has the "truth" anymore than we have it. So what's the point. Now maybe, you and I would say, ...no, no. Even if I was in "their" shoes, my family financially dependent upon the WTS, I'd still leave and drop the WTS like a hot potato. And remarkably, some few have done this. But when a person in "special services" is d'fd or da, it is completely a different matter. Much more severe than anything we might experience. Actually in most cases when when we leave, if we strong enough and stable emotionally, usually we can handle the "heat". And when we do this, then we are home-free. Because after leaving the organization, most of us still have our secular jobs, our work, our careers. If we've spent 20 or more years in the secular work, working we are liked by our fellow man. We serve a useful purpose in the community. Being a JW was to me, ALWAYS a liability, so far as the world was concerned. The people around me, rejoiced that I dropped the JWs. They thought I was crazy to be in it in the first place. Things get better then, on the job. Plus, you still have your homes. In may cases, ex-JWs own their homes. Own land, property, boats, cars, etc, etc. So, there is life after the WTS, at lease for us. We can still "pick up the pieces" and go on with the rest of our lives for the most part. And even in the more, shall we say "severe" cases -- like those which end in divorce, or complete loss of immediate family, or in some rare cases a person loses his job (because he works for a brother) or home (rents from a brother and so on) because of leaving the organization voluntarily or being "thrown out", usually even in these cases, the d'fd/da person and pull himself up, and recover after diligent effort. (I know this since my leaving resulted in a breakup in my marriage. I lost everything from a material standpoint. Financially, I was in shambles. -- But I recovered, in time.) But, think, I'm still a relatively young man. I have my career, my work. I'm not SEARCHING for a job, am I? No, I have good work, and I make "good money" too. So, I can recover. I will make it. And my career in the world, actually "saved me", in a sense. So all I work in is the "emotional" damage. And I can even repair that, through "therapy" sessions, that I can pay for, with my money. Because I make good money and so on. But in their cases, ex-Circuit Overseers, ex-District Overseers, ex-Bethelites (who've spent a lifetime in Bethel, like E. Dunlap, R. Franz) its not the same at all. We are in a different boat. We simply don't really know what we'd do if we were say, 65 years old or more, and had spent over 40 years in JW "special services" and "full-time work", and we were faced with trying to make a living in this cold, cold world. We are now searching for a job, but acutely aware that we possess hardly no specialized training or marketable skills that are in demand in our computerized, modernized society. We face "age discrimination" too. Because we are considered "old" by the world's standards, and no one will want to even interview us for a job. They say, we have no education (and we don't since the WTS told us not go to college and Armageddon was just around the corner), we have no marketable skills to speak of, and we find ourselves suddenly thrust out into the world trying to provide for ourselves and our aged wives who of course, now has severe health problems since she is also up in age like ourselves. We face all of this, if we decide at this late stage of the game, to get d'fd or da. We'd have to face all of this, just on principle alone. The principle that we know the WTS is wrong. But if they are, that means we are wrong too. And being wrong means God is not with us. And reasoning on that line, we think to ourselves, we have no guarantee that God will be with us, when we get d'fd/da? All of this is on our minds. We'd have to give this real consideration before leaving. Because all our health needs, our dental needs, transportation needs, food, clothing, housing are presently all cared for by Brooklyn Bethel or the congregations so far. And has been for the past 40 years for your family. Even all of your free spending money to buy simple toiletries for your wife and yourself, comes from WTS. -- But now, its all gone! Because you and your wife are d'fd/da. So, when we think about it, when you or I, or even Bill Bowen should get d'fd -- so what. Outside of a few family discomforts perhaps, if still we have family within the organization (and some of us don't), which may bring some pain. And maybe we lose a few close friends here or there, but that's it. That's the extent of our troubles. We can still recover and get on with our lives. We can become even philosophical about life and the WTS and all. To stay in would be "torture to the 10th degree". But for some, like the high officials within the organization, to leave, would be like the 20th degree in torture, I think. I did appreciate all that you have said above. I'd like to believe that if I were truly in the shoes of 40 year veterans, somehow I'd try everything in my power, to still get out and leave the WTS. But I don't really know what I'd actually do if I were in their shoes, since I don't have their particularly painful circumstances to act upon. Anyway, great post! You've expressed my sentiments exactly.. Contributed from JW.com...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33190&page=1&site=3#438735

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
10:57:28
Comments
LISTEN to NATIONAL PUBLIC RADIO'S segment on the JW PEDOPHILE SITUATION from last weekend 7-20-02:

<http://www.bbc.co.uk/cgi-bin/worldservice/sheep.pl/worldservice/reportingreligion.ra> That link is the right one. NPR stations often broadcast BBC shows, and this is one of them. The portion of the link dealing with the Witnesses starts at 2 minutes and a few seconds in and runs for about 12 minutes. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
12:15:46
Comments
My hat is off to you for a great website! My deepest sympathy goes out to everyone who has been abused! The JW religion needs to change its doctrine, report criminals to the authorities, and try to heal the wounds of the past. I am not a religious person but my wife is a JW who was a victim of horrific crimes as a child. Her being born and raised in a religion that harbors child molesters and provided her with no protection, no answers, no justice, and no normal life completely disgusts me. Silentlamb, you are a god in disguise!

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
12:28:20
Comments
I read the KM regarding the disfellowshipping and I saw the video clip on disfellowshipping. It would have been interesting if Dr. Stark commented on what it does to the family dynamics when the family shuns a member in the household. It would have been interesting to hear Dr. Stark comment on how this is emotional cruelty, blackmail, takes individual freedom away and teaches fear in the home and does not produce a loving family atmosphere in the home. BUT if you watch the video, you will see the Dr. Stark is a poker faced liar. There is a big campaign for disfellowshipping going on...the shovel by which they bury and oppress individuals, divide families, to PROTECT the" spirituality" of the congregation. That is a BIG CRUNCHY JUICY APPLE! Same congregations where they don't disfellowship a pedophile with or without two witnesses. Same congregations where they DF Bill with no witnesses and others for wanting to protect children from the pedophiles. Love to hear how Dr. Stark-naked could make psychobabble sense out of that and call it normal, healthy and rational or spiritual. The creep they hired speaks volumes for the character of the WTS. Dr. Stark is a "hired hand" to put a professional touch to their debauchery. The only "spirit" in the congregation they are protecting is one of fear, treachery, self-righteousness, competitiveness, judgment, injustice, and hatefulness. Now why would I want to go to a KH with my already broken spirit?C.E.

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
13:18:47
Comments
Just another thought - but would Dr. Stark answer my questions for free? I doubt it. He has no email address or web site. I have looked. Please notice also that the video that praises how educated the congregations are about pedophilia never crosses over in the reality of who gets actually gets disfellowshipped in the DF video. They sure bet on the "spirit" of stupidity in the congregations. *** I have 120 questions I would like to ask Dr. Stark. *** As far as the brothers/sisters who can't leave due to finances and no family. I understand how difficult it to be oppressed and/or just plain poor and without family. Many people here do. It takes courage and FAITH IN GOD, TO DO WHAT IS RIGHT NO MATTER WHAT THE CIRCUMSTANCES WE FACE IN DOING WHAT IS RIGHT. Sympathy does not encourage faith in God or doing what is right. Courage means to do what is right even though we are afraid.To Encourage - is to give courage. That is noble. C.E

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
13:48:58
Comments
According to the University of Washington Website this is Mr. Stark's email... Rodney Stark ... Professor ... Sociology of Religion ... 1971 University of California, Berkeley ... socstark@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
16:10:26
Comments
Hi there...to my knowledge, 'harboring criminals' is a crime in and of itself. But I'd like to know a LOT more about it. Any lawyers out there? What defines it and how is it punished?

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
16:19:58
Comments
Thank you for Stark's email address. I sent an email to him - asking "certain" questions. Do I hear any wagers if he will answer my questions?C.E.

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
16:53:14
Comments
FYI SLC - the current link to the NPR program just contains one VERY LONG show on the Church of England. Could it be the link just links to whatever the latest broadcast is? I would wish to hear the JW program if you can fix it. Thanks.

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
21:56:06
Comments
International Ex-Jehovah's Witness MEETUP Day is 6 Days Away! http://exjw.meetup.com/ This might be of help.

Remote User:
Date:
27 Jul 2002
Time:
22:15:48
Comments
http://www.serve.com/larryi/ Here is what I put in the guestbook there! EVERYONE ON BOARD THE CYBER INFO CENTER!!!!! CHUG CHUG CHUG... The governing body are hiding child molesters within the org. They will not protect the children because the children do not have two or more witnesses. The org. will allow a known child molester to go door to door. Are you going out in service with a known child molester? Are you sitting beside one in meetings? Are your children safe from a child molester that the org knows about but won't tell you? Is this right? Do you want a child molester coming into your home? Do you truly love the children?. YOUR CHILDREN? Keep them safe! go to the website that will show you exactly what is going on. DID YOU KNOW THAT THERE IS A MARCH AGAINST THE POLICIES OF THE ORG IN NEW YORK IN SEPTEMBER? GO TO silentlambs.org SEE FOR YOURSELF. CAN YOU AFFORD NOT TO? CAN YOUR CHILDREN?

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
03:29:47
Comments
Thank God, some people like you have the guts to stand up for the most weak in our society. I myself as a father have been struggling for about four years to get my son out of the influence of a Pentecostal community, here in my region ( Belgium ) And then I ran into Julien Lippens of SAS who has already contacted you, and I found out that we are struggling for the same things,a dignified and secure place for our children in this messy world. I cannot repeat enough how much you deserve to be supported and of course you can count on my total sympathy. Rob Berkmans Belgium e-mail : rberkmans@belgacom.net

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
04:26:17
Comments
How sad it must be to give worship a god that is about to commit mass pandemic genocide. That just sucks! What are you/they all smoking? (Bad Thai weed I guess. It must be laced in the pages of Awakes) you see my god thinks that I am a really cool guy. He gives me many opportunities to help a person (I hope this is one.) That is why I chose him as my god! (The same one Christ did.) A lesson to explain to the dudes who think they are in charge FUCKING KIDS IS NOT JUST A SIN IT'S A FELONY! So the government needs to keep track:)

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
04:47:16
Comments
Fine work you are doing Bill DF or not i don't care you are still number 1

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
11:35:35
Comments
From JW.com Discussion Board...Disfellowshipment of Bill Bowen...To:XXXXXXXXXX, --- You said: ... So Bill Bowen got DF'd ... personally, I don't see the big deal. Has this guy become something of a 'messiah' for the most recent disfellowshipees? What's the big deal with being DF'd anyway? I, like most of the people in this forum negotiated their DFing with grace, and without buying into the Org's. games. We bucked Org. procedure, and when elders demanded we meet with them for some kangaroo court, we said 'No'. We, each of us individually, removed the power of the Org. by not giving it power over us... and many of us prepared the way for people like Bill Bowen, who can thank their lucky stars that they have 'an issue' they can attached their anger too. Bill Bowen now has the 'fellowship' of Silentlambs, and similar forums, and I am pleased for him, as I am for others similarly placed, but don't forget that whilst some of you continued attaching so much importance to Org. doctrine, procedure and philosophy, many of us suffered because of it, and suffered in silence. Fortunately, the 'silence' has now become a deafening roar, but only now have people like Bill Bowen finally heard us. We may be silenced again, we may continue to roar... the 'truth' is the Org. will never be quite the same. However, there will continue to be those who are deaf to the lamb's roar, as many have been up to now. I wish Bill Bowen all the best in his efforts. The internet has proved to be a wonderful forum for bringing us all together. But, let's not forget those who have suffered in silence, who thought (and in their minds knew) they were alone, and have either managed, or not, to deal with their pain without the support now afforded those who have access to it. The strength Bill Bowen has is not his own, but is that which has been given him as a gift by those that have preceded him. Let's pray he doesn't misuse that strength in harping upon an issue of little consequence, his disfellowshipping. The silent lambs deserve better...posted by XXXXXXXXX... My comments: ...Your post was a masterpiece, soooo masterfully, and sooo eloquently stated! Insightful, and so true. That's why I just wanted to re-quote the post, in its entirety, leaving no words out. Unfortunately though, I think your thoughts are so deep, they will go largely unnoticed by those most concerned about the Bill Bowen Saga. So sad. Really, we who are appalled by this great injustice, still can't see "beyond the nose on our faces", actually. So, I think your words above, will not be fully appreciated or discerned (if ever) for "many moons" because of our own UNAFFECTED SIMPLICITY AND DISTASTEMENT NAIVETE'. Two unwelcome traits that has allowed the WT empire to continue its charade as "F&DS" for so long. You see, most of us here and elsewhere who are acquainted with the "silentlambs" movement, just don't think as deeply about the issues as you obviously do. So, Bill Bowen all of a sudden does become a "messiah" of sorts. As if the WTS has never, ever murdered someone in cold blood before. They must be dreaming! Why I've personally eye-witnessed "Bill Bowen" type people being disfellowshipped for the last 40 years! And heard of cases like his, even before, that have resulted in the same fate. So the disfellowshipment of Bill Bowen of Kentucky is no surprise, by a long shot. But actually to be expected, if you know anything about the operations of the F&DS of Brooklyn, NY. Remember, "disfellowshipment is a loving arrangement", as brother Pevy said on the video tape for the WTS. And the WTS has practiced this special brand of "love" for many years now upon any who would oppose themselves on any subject, no questions asked. But like you said, all of sudden, we are shocked! Why, we just can't believe the WTS would treat Bill Bowen that way. We are appalled. What a travesty of justice. Pleeeease...give me a break! You know, I would think people could put at least, a few facts together by now and come to know a stinking skunk or pole cat when we smell one, namely the wicked WTS. For example, if because of the policies of the WTS on child abuse gets exposed in the press internationally, and the WTS suddenly begins to smell more offensive than ever to the world in general, and if we suddenly sense we sort of smell a spiritual "pole cat" in our midst, namely the WTS itself, then we must reason: there must more things that really "stink" where that came from hidden in the past. If the WTS would be so "cold-blooded" as to disfellowship a guy like Bill Bowen for trying to help get the "pedophile-paradise" problem corrected, and is able to arrest the public's attention as well as JWs undivided attention worldwide to the problem, and then we just conclude, "well we've found one dead body buried in the WTS basement". And if that's all we learn from this, all we get out of this fiasco this, with all of the worldwide attention given to this problem in the press, then we need our heads examined. Because that's certainly not what the world thinks. And neither should we think this too. If this is how we think, then regrettably, we have missed the whole point of Bill Bowen's execution, and brave exposing on his part, of the WTS' wrongdoing and mismanagement of people's lives, as the so-called "F&DS". We haven't learned anything at all from this situation. In stead, all of the hard work of Bill Bowen and the painful public execution of himself and others associated with his work, are in vain, since we've missed the major import of his cause and prospectus What his work has clearly accomplished, demonstrated for the entire world to see: Namely that the WTS is a "bunch of stinking crooks", spiritual pole cats that stink real, real bad, posing as the "F&DS". Instead, they are impostors, "wicked shepherds" opposed to all that is good. (Ezekiel 34:1-12) If we haven't learned this, we've missed the whole point of this faithful man's execution and life course, everything he stood for, within the walls of the vicious flock-destroying operation called the WTS. To be sure, Bill Bowen lived and died for a worthy cause. But, just as you say, others before him have stood ever so nobly too. Bill Bowen, no, is not alone in his martyrdom, by no means. But do we understand this? Do we get it? I don't think most us who are complaining about how Bill Bowen has been treated really understand this yet. Excuse me, but wouldn't it make common sense at least to suggest, there might more WTS "dead bodies" buried somewhere by this raving lunatic organization -- hidden away in it's basement? Wouldn't it make sense to think that there might be more "skeletons in the closet" of the WTS? Doesn't that make sense? Shouldn't we reason there must be more hidden atrocities committed in the past by these cold-blooded killers? You would think we could put that together. If we could figure that out, then it would be more reasonable that there must be MORE "Bill Bowen" murdered, sacrificed at the WT altar of Public Relations and Public Image that CAME BEFORE HIM!!! Individuals massacred over doctrinal dogma, policies, protocol, you name it. If all we see is one "dead body", the silent lambs issue, which is undeniably bad enough, don't get me wrong. But as you suggest, if that is all we see, and not all of the brave people that must been massacred before Bill Bowen, then we missed the main point of this entire situation. We've missed the major opportunity to see, the greater, larger picture of this horrendous situation and/or obvious ramifications also implicated by such a scene. We have missed the real opportunity to excavate and unearth the vast "burial grounds of innocent ones", brutally murdered by the WTS. Anyway, great post! Contributed from JW.com...

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33118&page=2&site=3#439696

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
12:16:26
Comments
Good work Bill I say the show Dateline. Having been married to a JW I can tell you that the family was not "the happiest people on the earth". In fact with the big brother lifestyle they had, there was little peace in the family. Family members were DF because they did not believe or just got tired of the whole system(they are a system like everything else is). Your legacy will be something you can be proud of vs those who did nothing out of fear.

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
12:23:20
Comments
Good work Bill I saw the show Dateline. Having been married to a JW I can tell you that the family was not "the happiest people on the earth" like the Watchtower likes to portray its members. In fact with the big brother lifestyle they had, there was little peace in the family. Family members were DF. because they did not believe anymore or just got tired of the whole "just around the corner" end of times. Some of them made it clear we would not make it to 1995. Your legacy will be something you can be proud of vs those who did nothing because of their fear or their wanting to remain in their comfort zone.

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
15:14:58
Comments
Dr. Stark-naked... LOL CE! That was a good one! :) /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
15:16:55
Comments
TO "THANKS" who asked about the NPR segment on JWs. So Sorry, but I don't know. Why not visit the site again and see if they have an "email" or "Contact Us" link, and drop them an email and ask where is the JW segment now? /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
15:19:14
Comments
BTW, CE, I didn't even want to watch the video/clip w/Dr. Stark 'cuz I figured it would just irk me. Is Dr. Stark a JW himself? Most "worldly" psychologists/shrinks, etc. would boo-hiss the mind-control-mentality of the JW org. I hope you get a reply to your email w/questions. If so, please share what he says. Later/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
15:23:11
Comments
TRUE LIFE CONG EXAMPLE you ladies will enjoy!! :-) From "Just JWs" msn forum, a post... /SLC --- "I know what you mean about women not having any responsibility in the congregation. -- One time, after I stepped down from serving as an elder, and I was taking care of the magazines, I asked a sister who was there early for the meeting if she would help me count the magazines to which she was more than willing. -- Well one of the elders seen this and came over and had her stop counting saying that it wasn't right to have sisters doing this, that it was for brothers only. I disagreed with him right there and then, and the sister meekly walked away because she had been taught to never question the elders.

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
15:27:42
Comments
WHY WE ARE NOT LIKE KORAH: A post from "Just JWs" forum. Contributed (not written) by /SLC, as I thought this was pretty good! --- QUOTE: "Let me tell you something about Korah. The man and his followers wanted the authority and prestige that went with being Jehovah‚s appointed leader of the nation of Israel. The problem was that God had not appointed Korah but Moses, as the deliverer of Israel. God had given ample proof that Moses was his chosen one by giving Moses some extraordinary powers, the ability to perform miracles. Korah, on the other hand could offer no such proofs and had only his own words to establish his authority. Of course, anyone can stand up and make the claim to speak for God, but no anyone can perform miracles. Moses performed miracles, Korah could only tell others that he was the one. --- In time Korah grew bolder and convinced others that he was the one with the authority and those others, accepting only his words as proof (which, of course is no proof at all) became loyal to a man instead of to God. --- Now Moses can be viewed as picturing Jesus in this regard inasmuch as Jesus was the earthly representative of Jehovah. There is also the fact that God has used Jesus as the deliverer of mankind. Korah rebelled against the duly appointed representative of God, not some self-proclaimed man or committee that can offer absolutely no proof whatsoever of being The voice of God‚ other than their own statements claiming to be so. Now whenever anyone steps up and claims to be God‚s voice he is, in effect, replacing Jesus as The Word‚ and is in this instance resisting the true representative of God. Scripture states: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus," 1 Tim 2:5 No mention here of a single man or a committee of men, only Jesus. --- There have been many Korah‚s‚ down through the ages. Anyone who stands between God and men, with the exception of the one appointed to do so by God, is a Korah. Korah‚s‚ seek to bring others under their authority. They make rules and pass these off as commandments of God. They want what God has reserved for himself - namely to rule over his creation. Korah was not interested in correcting wrongs, he attacked Moses personally because he wanted Moses‚ position. Read the account. That‚s what all Korah‚s‚ have sought through the centuries - a following that they can command. --- Interestingly enough, Moses never did retaliate against Korah. He allowed God to demonstrate who his true representative was. It was God who punished Korah and his followers, not Moses or any other human. And so it is with the present day Korah‚s‚ who rise up and proclaim themselves the leaders of God‚s people. God will deal with them also, in his due time, in his own way. --- ...We are all the progeny of the God who grants us freedom to seek him by means of His Word which he has generously given to all men. For I am confident that "in every nation the man that fears him and works righteousness is acceptable to him." (Acts 10:35)" END QUOTE

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
15:34:54
Comments
SHOULD ELDERS BE ALLOWED TO QUESTION CHILDREN ABOUT ABUSE? --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 28 Jul 2002 02:13:02 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Should elders be allowed to Question children about abuse? --- Above Expectation: A Child as Witness --- By TAMAR LEWIN --- THOSE who doubt that children can be reliable witnesses may be forced to rethink that idea, given the sharp eye of young Sarah Ahn. --- Sarah, the Santa Ana, Calif., 5-year-old who was playing "Clue" with Samantha Runnion on July 15, gave police a clear-eyed description of how a man had asked for help finding his dog, grabbed a screaming Samantha and abducted her. She described his thin mustache, his accent, his age, his green car, with the chrome wheels and the "H" on the trunk — and she guided a sketch artist to produce a "wanted" picture that bore an uncanny resemblance to Alejandro Avila, who has been arrested and charged with Samantha's murder. --- "We responded to the call in four minutes, so she was giving that description immediately after it happened," said Jim Amormino, the spokesman for the Orange County Sheriff-Coroner Department. "We were definitely aware that it was a 5-year-old witness, but she was right in every particular, from the mustache to the age range." --- Her identification would have been impressive from any witness, but it was all the more stunning from a kindergarten child. --- "I found it amazing how accurate she was," said Jane Spinak, a Columbia law professor who specializes in children's rights. "But on some level it makes sense that she would remember those details. A child who's interested in colors or cars might notice that the car was green better than an adult. There's always pendulum swings on this issue of how much we believe children. But children can produce reliable accounts, especially when they're interviewed very soon after, by someone who's skilled enough to ask what they know without leading them, and when there's no issue of trying to keep a secret." --- The reliability of child witnesses has been a vexing legal issue for centuries: early canon law prohibited children from testifying till puberty, and as English common law developed the age limit was reduced to 7 years old. In the Salem witch trials of 1692, most of the accusers were young girls. --- Most recently — and notoriously — the credibility of child witnesses came into question in dozens of day care sexual-abuse cases nationwide in the 1980's, with children giving elaborate accounts of bizarre sexual abuse and satanic rituals by their day care providers. In 1984, seven people were charged with abusing children at the McMartin preschool outside Los Angeles. None were convicted, but some spent years in jail before a judge dismissed charges that more than 300 children were photographed naked in catacombs under the school. --- In another prominent case, in 1988, Margaret Kelly Michaels was convicted of more than 100 counts of sexual abuse at the Wee Care Day School in Maplewood, N.J., based on children's accounts that she had inserted knives, spoons and forks in their penis, anus or vagina, painted them with peanut butter, or urinated in their mouths. None of the children showed any sign of injury, but it was not until 1994, after she had spent six years in jail, that Ms. Michaels's conviction was overturned. --- Like the Salem witch trials, the day care cases reflected the beliefs of the era, when it was almost an article of faith among some therapists and child-victim groups that children never lie about sexual abuse. Many of the children were swept into a world of interviewers and evaluators who questioned them repeatedly, encouraging and even leading them to describe sexual abuse. --- While the cases, in retrospect, seem like mass hysteria, they also stand as a stark reminder of just how suggestible, and unreliable, children's accounts can be. Several studies have shown how easily false memories can be implanted in young children. --- In one research study, 114 children ages 3 to 8 met with a man known as Mr. Science, who showed them several simple experiments. In the first interview afterward, the children recalled the session correctly. But after their parents repeatedly told them a story that included events that didn't happen, like having a wet wipe put in their mouth, one-third of the children included those things in their account. In another study, preschool children were asked, weekly, about a fictitious event, and by the 10th week, more than half not only reported that it had happened, but filled in details. --- Typically, before allowing a child to testify, judges try to make sure the child knows the difference between fact and fantasy. Often, the judge asks questions like, "If I say my robes are purple, is that true?" or, while holding up four fingers, "If I say I'm holding up two fingers, is that true?" --- "It can backfire," said Elizabeth Loftus, a University of Washington psychology professor, who has studied child witnesses. "I saw one case where the lawyer wanted to question the kid, but the judge decided to do it. So the judge put the kid on the stand and said, `Do you know what truth is?' and the kid held up two fingers. That kid wasn't allowed to testify, since it was so clear the lawyer had been coaching." --- A better approach, she said, would be to focus less on lies than on whether the child's memory is contaminated. "What goes wrong in these cases is usually not that you have a lying kid but that you have a mistaken kid," Professor Loftus said. --- In the California abduction, there was little time for Sarah Ahn's memory to be contaminated by adult suggestions or intervening events, AND HER QUESTIONERS HAD BEEN TRAINED TO INTERVIEW CHILDREN. (caps added for emphasis) --- But mistaken accounts also arise out of children's overly literal interpretation of questions, or adults' failure to follow up until they understand what a child really knows. --- One former prosecutor remembers her son telling her that his father drank blood. --- "I said, `No, he doesn't, I know Daddy and I know he doesn't drink blood,' " she said. "But he insisted that he knew his father drank blood and that he would prove it. So he took me to the refrigerator and took out the cranberry juice. For us, it was a funny story. But you can imagine what might happen if he'd said it at school, or if it happened in the middle of a custody case in which I hated my husband." ---

<http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/28/weekinreview/28LEWI.html>

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
15:54:55
Comments
TODAY'S WATCHTOWER STUDY (which was the 6-15-02 issue), SAYS IT'S OKAY TO USE THE INTERNET! For more info, refer to your 6-15-02 copy of the WT or visit:

<http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=26852&page=1&site=3#440011>

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
16:01:26
Comments
ATTORNEY REPRESENTING THE WTS -

<http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33268&site=3>

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
16:30:20
Comments
ARE YOU AN ACCESSORY TO THE CRIME OF CHILD ABUSE? --- "The word from the local police is that if a person knows of a crime and fails to report it, they legally become an 'accessory' to the crime. This applies to everyone and it applies EVERYWHERE in the United States.

" <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33208&page=1&site=3#440039>

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
16:31:46
Comments
" CALL YOUR P.D. NOT YOUR P.O.!!!! STOP JW CHILD ABUSE NOW!" --- New Theme Slogan for the lambs!!/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
16:46:03
Comments
TO JWs - TRY THIS & COME BACK AND TELL US HOW IT WORKED OUT FOR YOU!!! HOW WELL DO YOU THINK THIS WOULD FLY? --- "The next time a cop pulls you over and tries giving you a ticket... tell him according to the bible he needs two or more witnesses to implicate you and see how he deals with it." --- LOL! Everyone should include that thought in their letters to media/WTS, etc. /SLC <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33228&site=3>

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
16:55:44
Comments
FOR THE JW VISITORS: Have a lookie at the changes between the old United in Worship of the Only True God and the new book Worship the Only True God, laid out nice and neat in two columns, paragraph by paragraph, of some major changes.

<http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33171&site=3>

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
16:58:19
Comments
TWO CASE SCENARIOS of how a child abuse case was handled. Which would YOU prefer?

<http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33273&page=1&site=3#440032>

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
17:16:58
Comments
The mole...thank you all in response to my letter written and posted a few days ago...this issue is real and if you read it you know how and why the evil creeps in our halls..my special assembly is coming and rumor has it that a small talk will touch upon this issue of questioning the authority of the Elders and rumors. we will see how many will be removed. i have avoided the elders now that my family are involved in a broil of diff rent ideas on what the society says is right. my argument to them is we should seek the bible and love not men. this is why i ask for reformation. The so called anointed have no power and an illusion created by looking up scripture here and there in the book study and personal study successfully obscured the facts, only 6 1/2 percent of the scriptures is used, and that in a disconnected way, many have been trained to used the watchtower books. Even the 6 1/2% was feigned and weighted down with 93 1/2% watchtower verbiage. *** the mole

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
17:29:39
Comments
JEHOVAH'S GOD IS "EDITOR" OF THE WATCHTOWER MAGAZINE! (per former WTBTS president Fred Franz). Read the trial transcript yourself here: <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=18930&site=3> --- The court case itself was in 1940 and was Olin Moyle against Fred Franz and others and the WTBTS. Just so that you know who is who, Hayden Covington was attorney for the defendants and Walter Bruchhausen was attorney for the plaintiff. The relevant part of the case was the direct examination of Fred Franz by Covington (columns 794 - 795) and cross-examination by Bruchhausen (columns 865 - 867). --- In the direct examination Fred Franz had just started to explain the purpose of the Watchtower magazine. The examination continued - Q. Is the "Watch Tower" magazine a one man magazine? A. It is not. Q. Who was the editor of the magazine in the days from 1900 to 1916? A. Pastor Russell was the Editor, the sole Editor of the "Watch Tower" down to his death in 1916. Q. Who became the editor of the magazine upon the death of Pastor Russell? A. Pastor Russell left a will designating five gentlemen to serve on an editorial committee, three of which must agree as to an article. The Court: He asked you who they were. Q. Do you remember who they were? The Court: Do you? If you don't remember, tell us. Q. The names, and if you don't remember the names-You say there were five? A. Judge Rutherford was one of them. Mr. Van Amburgh was another, and Fred Robison was another. Q. Was there any provision in the Charter of the Watch Tower Bible & Tract Society for such editorial committee? A. No, that was the Will of Pastor Russell. Q. Who subsequently became the Editor of the magazine, the main editor of the "Watch Tower" magazine? A. In 1931, October 15th, as I recall, the "Watch Tower" discontinued publishing the names of any editorial committee on the second page. The Court: He asked you who became the editor. The Witness: And it said- The Court: Who became the editor? Q. Who became the editor when this was discontinued? A. Jehovah God. --- There's Much More to read at the above link! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
17:30:32
Comments
Dallas Morning News Sunday July 28... Catholic bishops and sex abuse ... Two reporters have built a database of bishops who PROTECTED priest s... Catholic leaders have allowed priests accused of sexual abuse to keep working, a systematic practice that spans decades and continues today ...In checking whether a bishop had protected priests or other church representatives accused of sexual abuse, reporters Brooks Egerton and Reese Dunklin relied on published reports, court records, interviews and church records obtained in civil litigation. Most protected priests were accused of sexually abusing minors ... http://www.dallasnews.com/cgi-bin/2002/priests.cgi ... There must be an idea in this for us or there must be news reporters willing to do the research for JW Abuse Protectors. KEEP the emails to the press going!!

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
22:13:38
Comments
Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God... 1 John 5:1 How can this be so? The Watchtower Organization say's that it is only 144,000 who are born of God. What should I do? Should I believe the scriptures or should I believe the Watchtower (Old boys club) Organization?

Remote User:
Date:
28 Jul 2002
Time:
23:01:33
Comments
It is very clear the governing body and by extension the writing staff in New York is it self apostate. They have joined themselves, and us by extension, to the UN for ten years; they have altered the blood policy until almost all of us are unaware that we can take any and all blood fractions, including hemoglobin solutions; they have gutted all the major views on prophecies, so that what we believe is UNRECOGNIZABLE. If you doubt this, review the questions from readers about voting and about working for churches, all in the last 18 months. They are a mess. Are you listening, Gene? Pistoff in the midwest

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
00:04:36
Comments
THE MOLE *** my story is true, my family has now called me and debated my letter. Many in rebuttal defended not their faith but the accusation of not loving my Grandmother but they instead balked about own desires, but still the fact remained, each had their own view and interpretation of what the organization thought but none said anything of what Christ thought... Theocratic double talk, and a way of pointing out deluded facts, again misuse of the scriptures, is what many of us are subjected too. Implications completely damaging to ones position is how they weed out non-conformist, complainers, and unfaithful ones. The inconsistency of the watchtower society in its arbitrary use of the scriptures to suit their organization purpose is once again glaringly shown in their interpretation of the bible regarding the misconduct of those within its ranks including molesters and there like. This double standard of interpretation is in evidence throughout all the books and booklets and magazines of the watchtower society. My family is evidence to this and this is why I let all of you read my letter sent to a third generation family involved in the Jehovah's Witness Organization...THE MOLE

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
00:07:12
Comments
Face the Facts Governing Body of Jehovah's Witness. I know that you are reading this. You are loosing the tight control that you once enjoyed as the slave master. People are learning about the Org. from the internet. You do not have the control of peoples reading material anymore. You must provide accountability for your lies and half truths now. You know, the UN thing, the failed prophesies, the children you don't protect. Your game is quickly coming to an end.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
01:21:01
Comments
Hi all german information about silentlamb can be found on http://www.silentlambs.biz greeting Klaus

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
07:08:05
Comments
Bill Bowen has been able to make public the double-standard for disfellowshipping by being disfellowshipped himself. I do not think Bill is making a "big deal" out of being personally DF'd, but the Big Deal is DF'd without two witnesses for speaking out against the two witness policy for DFing pedophiles. He has exposed to the public and to any JW who reads the media, the double-standard of DFing by using himself as an example. *** He has been diligent and tenacious in involving the media to reach as many JW's as he can. *** I know that there have been Noble men and women before Bill. *** I believe it takes a lot of trust in Jehovah to leave the WTS and I do not minimize anyone's efforts to do this...it is a great task going quietly or making a lot of noise. I know for myself to even read criticism (sp) about the WTS, I thought I would be struck dead!! *** Bill has taken a hidden, dark secret and exposed it publicly not for his glory, but for the possible protection of one small child. *** And to expose the double-standard to ones who have not completely lost their ability to critically think. *** Bill has made so much noise, that there are now two WTS videos one regarding the pedophiles and one on DFing;they have called in the "experts" to back them up. The KM has two pages devoted to DFing. *** But Dateline was aired, Panorama was aired, and the newspapers are printing stories=TO THE BENEFIT of children in the KH! If one child is saved from being molested, then Bill did a good job as well as the many silent ones who have spoken out. C.E.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
07:38:16
Comments
Dear Mole: I have been terribly horribly depressed recently because my children will not take the time to come and visit me. I have been in my place for two years and they have not come here once. I have invited them, but they don't come. *** I have gone to see them several times in these last two years, but they don't come here, and have left me out of gatherings, vacations they take together, I am not invited. *** If I say anything about it, I hear excuses which only makes me lonelier. I am ignored, neglected and rejected. *** It is very sad to be older, and treated with such disregard especially by the children you gave birth to and raised. *** You are a good grandson and have love and understanding for your Grandmother. *** I think the a lot of people Christian or Not, miss the essence of family, history, memories and respect for the older ones. *** Your sincere love for your grandmother is worth very much. soapbox

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
08:13:54
Comments
News Church's stance attacked Jul 26 2002 By Staff Reporter, Evening Mail http://icbirmingham.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100localnews/page.cfm?objectid=12065705&method=full&siteid=50002 A man whose son was sexually abused by a Jehovah's Witness has criticized the church after leaders said they would consider keeping the PAEDOPHILE in their ranks. The father, who cannot be named for legal reasons, claims Jaswant Patti is still a member of the church, which requires its congregation to be "morally clean". A Jehovah's Witness spokesman confirmed the church is carrying out an internal investigation into the case, after which Patti could remain a member if he shows "genuine repentance". Patti was jailed for five years in 1999 after he was found guilty of four offences of indecent assault and one other serious sexual assault against two boys, then aged nine and 14. Following the conviction, church leaders of the Rubery Congregation of the Jehovah's Witnesses, in New Street, Rubery, backed Patti. Philip Price, one of the church's elders, even questioned the verdict, querying the strength of the evidence. The father of one of the victims said: "The church has a policy of disfellowshipping which can be applied to a person who has got a smoking problem and finds it hard to give up. "Why is it Jaswant Patti, who has been convicted and whose name will be on the sex offenders' register for the rest of his life, hasn't been disfellowshipped?" The spokesman for the UK headquarters of the church said he was not able to comment on specific cases. But he added: "If someone has committed repugnant acts they will be disfellowshipped but it depends on a person's attitude. "If a person shows genuine repentance it might not mean they are expelled. That's what the elders in the congregation would have to determine. "To be one of Jehovah's Witnesses you have to be morally clean and we try our utmost to keep the depraved out. The person would have to go a long way to prove they're genuinely repentant. "If they remained a member they would never occupy a position of responsibility."

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
10:30:13
Comments
Only prisons have Watchtowers.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
11:40:31
Comments
URL: http://www.myinky.com/ecp/local_news/article/0,1626,ECP_745_1291656,00.htm l Jehovah's Witnesses critic to appeal ouster By The Associated Press July 28, 2002 DRAFFENVILLE, Ky. - A Western Kentucky man is fighting a move by elders in the Jehovah's Witnesses to excommunicate him, saying he is being punished for his claims that church policies protect child molesters. Bill Bowen, of Draffenville, Ky., says he will file an appeal Monday of a decision by three church elders to "disfellowship" him on charges of "causing divisions." Bowen said he was notified Thursday of the action after the elders met without him the previous evening. If the excommunication is upheld by a separate three-elder appeals panel, Bowen would become the fourth person expelled this year from the church after criticizing policies on child molesters. The church denies such criticisms. Jeff Steen, one of the elders who Bowen says decided to disfellowship him, would not confirm or deny the elders' action, saying church discipline is conducted confidentially in "a spirit of mildness, not confrontation." Bowen said the action against him is "absolutely not" justified. "I have committed no sin against God; I have broken no law in the Bible," said Bowen, who resigned as an elder in December 2000 to protest church policies but had remained a member in good standing. "This is nothing but a kangaroo court to silence me." Bowen contends Jehovah's Witnesses keep incidents of child molestation secret and refuse to let victims warn other members of predators in their congregations. The Courier-Journal reported in February 2001 of court cases in several states in which Jehovah's Witnesses officials were accused of keeping secret the allegations of abuse by their elders or members, sometimes in violation of state law. Since then, new lawsuits making such claims have been filed in New Hampshire, Minnesota and Washington state.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
15:33:43
Comments
This is for Bill --- The fight goes on because it is a 'just' battle. The DFing is a battle scar. A medal of honor. Wear it proudly. It proves a very vital point. The WTS is lashing out at the innocent in a mad thrashing attempt to regain control. It is a maniac clearly out of control. I wrote a poem today while thinking about Bill fighting the Dragon (i.e. the WTS) *** The Dragon Slayers * by Loris J Matheny * The Dragon Slayers have come; * The strong of heart, * Great battles they have won. *** The Dragon Slayers have come; * They fight a fine fight, * Never do they turn and run. *** One by one they come; * A challenge for the Dragon, * But they are slain- every one. *** Two by two they come; * They fight in teams * Because two are stronger than one. *** Ten by ten they come; * The Dragon leaves the safety of the cave, * In the open it fights on. *** Legion by legion they come; * The Dragon fights, the Dragon tires, * The dead cover the ground like dung. *** The small child has come; * The Dragon is weak from years of battle, * The child throws a single stone. *** The end for the Dragon has come; * Defeated by the Dragon Slayers, * Brought down in the end by one. *** Wear them down Bill so that the Lambs can have a chance to fight the Dragon, too. Love Y'all, Loris

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
15:35:36
Comments
Some very observant person wrote: "Only prisons have Watchtowers." --- Thank you for that comment. Somehow I never thought of that before, but How Right You Are! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
15:36:35
Comments
To the new German website for silentlambs! Excellent! I cannot read a word of German, but it looks like a great site and well done. This should be of great benefit to Germans living everywhere! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
15:37:49
Comments
Welcome to PISTOFF! I've seen your name at the J-W.com forums, and loved your code name, and have read some of your story and posts there. Empathy abounds. Glad to see your comment here, too! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
15:39:44
Comments
To Visitors and Old Timers of Silent Lambs, from SLC: MEET the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, here, with pics and a short bio, for real, not a joke. <http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/gb.htm>

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
15:41:58
Comments
PS: And keep in mind as you look at these GB men, that THESE ARE THE ONES MAKING POLICIES that PROTECT PEDOPHILES and CHILD ABUSERS, and these are the same ones who gave the authority to Disfellowship their own spiritual Brother, Bill Bowen, and the Andersons, and others, who sought to PROTECT THE CHILDREN, and EXPOSE the CORRUPTION of the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
15:43:35
Comments
CE/Soapbox: I loved your post about Bill Bowen and his obvious reasons for doing what he has done, and how he should not be DF'd, etc. Thanks for your thoughts, and sorry to hear about your children, too. I'm of the "semi-older" generation but w/o kids, but I guess it doesn't always matter if one has kids or not, eh? Sorry to hear about that. Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
15:48:23
Comments
Thanks Loris! Great analogy/poem for Bill and the other lambs! Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
16:15:52
Comments
Hi, Saw the panorama, am an ex-dub but only in for 4 years in mid 20s. I had heard a little about the problem through other sources - local and national press have covered a couple of scandals but so far the org have managed to pass them off as isolated. I couldn't contain my giggles when Ted Jaracz bumbled out some theocratic claptrap to the BBC Reporter. She was worth my TV License fee!! Well Done - keep it up, its working!!!

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
16:17:46
Comments
7-29-02 Draffenville Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses Judicial Committee Elders of: Murray Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses Central City Congregation of Jehovah Witnesses Any other congregations in which elders have been appointed to my judicial committee Dear Brothers, I wish to appeal the decision made to disfellowship me. The reason is because of an error in judgment due to the deceptive manner which the judicial committee operated in the face of my flat denial of any wrongdoing. I have not committed any sin against God or the organization. The judicial committee failed to produce any eye-witnesses to back up their allegations, thus they have no case against me. As you will note from previous correspondence over the course of the last 19 months I have endeavored to communicate extensively to the organization regarding the need to change WT policy when it comes to abuse and also to request apology and/or explanation for sanctions that have been directed against me by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. I find it despicable that any elder would cooperate with such wicked actions at their direction. For your review I offer the following: Placing restrictions on me within the congregation without any charges of wrongdoing to make it appear to the congregation I had sinned in some way. Watchtower representatives giving numerous talks in which it is inferred I am a liar and all allegations are false on the deficiencies of WT policy regarding child abuse. WT Public Information distributing a video to media in which my father is coerced to call me a liar along with Earl Norman and JR Brown. Forbidden to have assignments on the Theocratic Ministry School and withdrawn as Watchtower reader to put forth the appearance to the congregation a judicial committee had offered sanction. Instructing the Draffenville Congregation to go door-to-door and tell the public that I am liar. Forbidding me to work with the congregation in field service. Instructing brothers and sisters in my congregation to treat me as disfellowshipped. Deceptive comments to the media to create an impression to the public that myself and other advocates have committed “other” sins against God. (a bald-faced lie) Pressuring fellow witnesses to stop working in my candle business due to negative comments by representatives of Watchtower leadership. Deceptively saying you cannot find a KM, personal literature orders and magazines when I have requested them. Elders informing me I was not welcome at meetings. Supporting the local child molester by awarding him privileges in the congregation. I made numerous requests in writing for assistance in resolving the above matters but the Governing Body instructed you to ignore my cry for help. As you brothers are well aware I base my comments on matters that I have dealt with personally, that is, actions I have seen with my own eyes and heard with my own ears. If you happened to watch Dateline and BBC Panorama you of course can see on national television the truthfulness of my statements backed up with factual evidence from the abuse survivors themselves. If these programs were all lies as Watchtower has informed many brothers and sisters, why have they not moved to sue these programs to protect their good name? Jeff Steen is well aware that what I have stated locally is the truth as he participated in the investigation as well as telephone conversations to Service Department. Yet he sits on a judicial committee to disfellowship me? What kind of “spiritual man” does he prove himself to be? In a court of justice for a judgment to be fair and impartial certain protocols must be met. Within the Jehovah's Witness court certain protocol is outlined in the elder book, “Pay Attention to Yourselves and All the Flock”. The judicial committee in following the directions of the Governing Body, failed to follow the written guidelines in the course of my hearing, therefore the judgment was unfair and partial. I offer the following examples: Arranging a hearing in writing and the judicial committee not showing up. Refusing to communicate answers to clarifying questions for the hearing by ignoring all correspondence. Failure to provide eye-witnesses to rebut my denial of any wrongdoing. Conducting a secret judicial hearing without informing me. Ignoring a second “arranged in writing” meeting without any communication. Repeated harassment by not following my respectful request to have all communication go through my attorney. Failure to provide description of the charges against me in the latest hearings. Failure of the chairman to provide correspondence to the accused as instructed in “Flock” book. By the actions of the committee I was denied my right to present “witnesses” in my behalf. Failure of the committee to provide “suitable” and “convenient” arrangements for the time of the hearing by using deception and short notice. I believe these actions of ignoring all protocol for this “kangaroo” hearing has been personally directed by the Governing Body in order to silence the call for proper actions to be taken in behalf of children. The local judicial committee has not acted for the sake of righteousness, but instead as men without morals or ethics who simply obey as instructed. It is a similar process followed when child molesters are exposed in the congregation as directed by the Governing Body. When these matters began I held hope that righteous men would rise up to protect the children in our organization. I hoped some of those men would be found on the Governing Body who would stand up and stop policies that allow children to be raped. In the course of the last nineteen months instead of proving themselves righteous the Governing Body has committed actions that prove them to be wicked men. In the illustration of the “Faithful and Discreet Slave” it is interesting to note the comment made in Luke 12: 43-45; “Happy is THAT slave, if his master on arriving finds him doing so! 44. I tell you truthfully, He will appoint him over all his belongings. 45. But if ever THAT slave should say in his heart, “My master is delays in coming, and should start to beat the menservants and the maidservants, and to eat and drink and get drunk.” You see brothers in the illustration the “slave” is one man with an option, to be good or to be wicked. The Governing Body as appointed leaders of the FDS has instituted actions that have “beat” the children of this organization. When anyone speaks out about this, they are “beaten” by the threat and use of disfellowshipping as a way to silence proper action in behalf of children. “THAT slave” has become “evil” when it hurts children. Since 1992 the Governing Body was clearly informed by a written report to each member, that children are being raped as a result of negligence in WT Policy. With great wickedness and 23,000 child molesters later, to this day they have refused to act. My June letter to the Service Committee requested a solution to this by following theocratic guidelines within organizational arrangement on September 27th. Result? The Governing Body appoints a judicial committee to disfellowship me ignoring all protocols for doing so. Do you really believe you can have Jehovah's spirit and follow the bidding of wicked men? If I am wrong in this reasoning I invite you brothers to prove otherwise. This proceeding has to date been completely partial, unfair, deceptive, and unjust. Will you as an appeal committee stand for righteousness? I await your communication for a hearing. I also request sufficient time to bring eye-witnesses and agree to face any witnesses who may wish to testify against me. Please provide a weekend time frame and a specific meeting time in writing to my attorney. Very truly yours, William H. Bowen

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
16:44:55
Comments
WRITE TO THE GOVERNING BODY MEMBERS INDIVIDUALLY, AND ENCLOSE A DOLLAR TO MAKE SURE THEY OPEN IT AND READ YOUR LETTER!!! TELL THEM HOW YOU FEEL ABOUT THEIR POLICIES & DFING ACTIONS of BOWEN, et al. USE SCRIPTURES IN YOUR LETTERS! --- HERE'S THEIR NAMES & INFO, WRITE TO THEM INDIVIDUALLY c/o WTBTS, 124 COLUMBIA HEIGHTS, BROOKLYN, NY 11201 --- HERE ARE THEIR NAMES, COPY & PASTE THIS INFO FOR FUTURE REFERENCE & WRITE WRITE WRITE!!! --- Carey W. Barber (1905-) ...he is called to the Brooklyn Bethel, to be a Governing Body member in the autumn of 1977. Source: w82 11/15 10-14 (French). --- John E. Barr (1913-) In September 1977 is called to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses and from then on lives in the headquarters of the organization, in Brooklyn, New York, U.S.A. Source: w87 7/1 26-31 (French). --- Milton G. Henschel (1920-) On December 30, 1992 was selected to be the successor of Frederick W. Franz (who had died a week before, when he was 99 years old) in the Presidency of the Watchtower. Henschel was president of the Watchtower until October 7, 2000, when there was a reorganization in the leadership and Don Adams (not a Governing Body member) became the new President of the Watchtower. Sources: w77 7/1 394; yb80 112; w89 6/15 22; w89 9/1 26; w93 3/15 31 (French). -- SLC wonders: What is Henschel's status now? Is he dead? --- Samuel F. Herd (?-) On October 2, 1999, Samuel Herd was appointed to the Governing Body. He is the only Afro-American in the Governing Body. Source: w2000 1/1 29. --- Theodore Jaracz (1925-) On November 28, 1974, he was appointed to the Governing Body. Sources: w75 5/1 284; w77 2/1 95; w96 6/1 25; yb83 103-105 (French). --- M. Stephen Lett (?-) On October 2, 1999 was appointed to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. Source: w2000 1/1 29. --- Gerrit Lösch (1940-) On July 1, 1994 he was appointed to the Governing Body. Source: w94 11/1 29 (French). --- Guy H. Pierce (?-) On October 2, 1999, Guy Pierce was appointed to the Governing Body. Source: w2000 1/1 29. --- Albert D. Schroeder (1911-) On December 18, 1974 Schroeder was appointed to the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses. Sources: w83 3/1 10-17; w85 12/1 26 (French). --- David H. Splane (?-) In 1998 he was appointed "helper" of the Writing Committee. On October 2, 1999 he was appointed to the Governing Body. Source: w2000 1/1 29. --- Daniel Sydlik (1919-) On November 28, 1974, he was appointed to the Governing Body. Source: w85 6/1 21-26 (French). --- DECEASED GB Members: Karl F. Klein (1906-2001) On November 28, 1974, he was appointed to the Governing Body. Died January 3, 2001. Source: w85 5/1 20-27 (French). --- Lyman A. Swingle (1910-2001) On October 1, 1945 Swingle was elected to the Directors Board of the Watchtower. Around 1984 he was appointed secretary-treasurer of the Watch Tower Society of Pennsylvania and Watch Tower Society of New York. Died March 14, 2001. Sources: w84 5/15 24; jv91; yb81 188 (French). --- <http://www.geocities.com/osarsif/gb.htm>

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
16:56:59
Comments
THE MOLE *** i feel for bill bowen and if it is true the circumstances surrounding his removal then my point has been made. Many have been trained to present the books, to conduct back calls, how to conduct book studies, and to how to get contributions. if a publisher cannot fulfil their quota then begins the steps to punish and remove them. In the case of Bill, i have written if those of you paid attention to it, the cause and effect of action to side step their rite to control you. As i have informed "Someone in Texas" keep asking questions but not to confront them, it is when the circular reasoning starts to appear for you who read their flooding books. I have written quick notes from the assembly talks and talks within the hall so it is of no surprise to us who attend on a regular basis the actions being done to Bill Bowen, if your surprised then the only conclusion is that you're naive or not a member. All worship, if such it can be called, must be conducted after a standard set by the society, and calls for monthly time reporting, attendance at meetings, attending area studies, holding home bible studies, using only the society's literature, and of faithfully collecting as much money as possible in contributions and turning this over to account servant is how one proves his faith. **By repetition reading new students begin to recite in parrot like fashion whole portions of a book printed by the organization not the bible, it is this dangerous situation which leads to the innocent being punished and removed not the offender who quietly slithers by. It is the ones who boldly speak out who are lashed out at. In my case i silently walk by and listen as those so called brothers of love who find fault with the meek, those who do not belong to their click, are the ones with the most burdens. I challenge those of you who are new to this site to seek out my writings and then compare with what you know and the truth of how things really work will sicken you. Non-conformity is what they fear. *** It is not my time to speak out publicly in my hall, i must continue to gather information because if we are to make change it must come from within...i dare to destroy their wickedness because i can...only the sheep skin covers masking their vile abuse that has been whitewashed over is what they want us to see..the lurking evil will be exposed..mysterium inequitatis and the malingering deception will come to view soon...THE MOLE

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
16:59:14
Comments
SLC posted the above names and address of the Governing Body members of the WTBTS. It just happened that the post ended up right below Bill Bowen's Request for Appeal letter. Some may think he posted the GB member names, but I did it FWIW. Also, GREAT LETTER Bill Bowen. I do WISH they would LISTEN to your obviously correct arguments! Their actions are so blatantly biased and MORALLY UNETHICAL (much less SPIRITUAL), and what is the biggest joke of all is they DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES. This truly is a dark day for them. Hang in there, BB!

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
17:14:42
Comments
Hi everyone, I just wanted to let you all know I've been reading all the posts, and have been posting letters received from Bill, about his being DF'd and his appeal letter etc, but I just haven't had anything else to say. Everyone else posting has been saying what I would say anyhow, so just know I'm here with all of you. I have been busy writing email letters to magazine editors requesting them to write articles about this subject, as well linking them to this site. My hope is that with all of us writing, many more articles will be written in newspapers, magazines, etc to bring this serious problem more widespread viewing by those who haven't seen Dateline etc. Please, let's not let up in our personal efforts to assist Bill bring this to the public. It makes me ill to think of all the perps out *witnessing* at people's home, who knows who their next victim will be? Those of us who have been victimized can do much to help see others don't experience what we've been through. Love of God and Neighbor pushes me to do all I can, so others don't have to go through what I/we have gone through. Keep writing! Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
17:51:05
Comments
SLC posted the above names and address of the Governing Body members of the WTBTS. It just happened that the post ended up right below Bill Bowen's Request for Appeal letter. Some may think he posted the GB member names, but I did it FWIW. Also, GREAT LETTER Bill Bowen. I do WISH they would LISTEN to your obviously correct arguments! Their actions are so blatantly biased and MORALLY UNETHICAL (much less SPIRITUAL), and what is the biggest joke of all is they DO NOT EVEN FOLLOW THEIR OWN RULES. This truly is a dark day for them. Hang in there, BB!

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
17:53:06
Comments
" DON'T MESS WITH BILL," remember that song? The suggestion was made at the forum that Bill should put that oldie-goldie song on his answering machine. :-) Well, I thought it was too funny and that I would share it w/you guys. /SLC <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33363&page=1&site=3#441366>

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
17:59:36
Comments
Agree 100% with what Linda wrote, and thanks for posting the letters and articles, and all the work you are doing. I meant to write this before, an example of how MEDIA EFFECTS OUTCOMES WITH THE LEGAL AUTHORITIES: I saw this on 20/20 or Dateline just recently. Remember the Kennedy relative who murdered that girl who lived across the street from him years ago, back when they were teenagers? Well, it was due to one man (I forget his name) who wrote a book about that unsolved crime, and his writing of that book got the public in general fired up all over again about the crime. The public cried out to the media and the media and the public together cried out to the legal system. That was the purpose of 20/20 (or Dateline) interviewing the author of the book, to bring out the POINT that HIS PUBLIC BOOK & the subsequent MEDIA ATTENTION IT GOT is what made the PROSECUTORS go after the Kennedy perv and finally bring him to trial, even after all these years. --- Moral of the Story? As Linda said: WRITING Letters and keeping the MEDIA ON TOP OF THIS is the ONLY THING that will keep it alive and GET RESULTS from the Prosecuting Attorneys, the Feds, etc. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
19:26:29
Comments
Es muy interesante haber entrado en esta pagina, que bueno que hay personas que ahora estan dando a conocer todo lo que pasa y que puede hacer ese cuerpo gobernante de los testigos de Jehova yo conozco un poco de esa doctrina porque mi papa pertenecio a ellos, a Dios gracias ya no y tengo ciertas experiencias que mi papa vivio, los felicito por estar abriendole los ojos a las personas, disculpen que escriba en espanol pero mi ingles no es tan bueno. lacabrina@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
20:05:28
Comments
TO ALL SILENT LAMBS! TAKE YOUR MESSAGE TO THE DR. PHIL SHOW! A member of another forum filled out the online form for the Dr. Phil Show re: the pain of being shunned and she was called by the Dr. Phil Show to be on the show! The producers told her they decided to do another show re: High Control (cult) Groups, and they would like to use her for that show instead. However, below is the link and the online form which the above forum member initially filled out for the TOPIC of the Dr. Phil Show that would apply even MORE SO to SILENT LAMBS. Here is the info! Here is your chance! If they called ONE JW to be on the show, there is a good chance they will call MORE OF YOU LAMBS WHO NEED HELP & TO GET YOUR STORY OUT! Hope this helps somebody!! Hey, free trip to LA (Dr. Phil Show) and/or Chicago (Oprah Show). ;) Love/SLC

Can't Move On From A Tragedy? --- Dr. Phil wants to help. --- Have you suffered the loss of a loved one through tragic circumstances and can't move on? Has your family experienced a devastating loss and you don't know how to recover? Do you want help getting over a personal tragedy? Please only respond if you are willing to appear on the program. --- Fill out the form --- Please fill out this form completely, then click "Send" to e-mail your message to Dr. Phil. --- Name --- E-mail Address --- Street Address --- Day Phone --- City --- Evening Phone --- State/Province Zip / Postal Code --- Country --- Age --- Tell us your story --- Please note: These projects are not individual, group or medical therapy and should not be considered a substitute or replacement for those therapies. They are not designed for those that suffer from a mental illness or are currently under psychiatric care. --- All submissions will become property of Paramount Pictures Corporation and will not be returned. --- For information on Oprah.com's privacy policy, click here.

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
20:32:34
Comments
Translation of earlier post brought to you by altavista.com (the best that I could do, my espanol is not to good either! Welcome lacabrina@aol.com ... Yep, I'm still here! Reading the posts and posting a few of my thoughts elsewhere! Wonder if they have erased them...LOL bonnielynn He is very interesting to have entered this pagina, that good that there are people who now estan presenting everything what happens and that can make that body governing of the witnesses of Jehovah I know a little that doctrine because my Pope pertenecio to them, God thanks no longer and I have certain experiences that my Pope vivio, I congratulate to be being on them the awares to the people, excuse that it writes in espanol but my ingles is not so good lacabrina@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
29 Jul 2002
Time:
22:47:00
Comments
SLC: The german version of silentlambs was rumored to be run by a man who has porn sites. I never heard if this was just gossip or actually true...does anyone know? Anything is possible. I do know that Bill would not do this knowingly. I believed that I emailed the post to Bill so he could see what was being said. But I know he is so busy. *** I have not heard from Dr. Stark. I asked him what was the social and spiritual ramifications for a person who was lied to by the clergy and DFing and shunning family members. I also asked him directly about the video on the education of the congregations on pedophilia and then the video on DFing and although the whole issue is related, the two videos did not cross over. I asked why he has not listened to the other side of the issue or addressed the real issue of two witnesses for pedophilia. *** I stated the questions better than this but that was the general idea> He studies and teaches sociology and religion. He probably as part of the "deal" cannot respond to our questions. *** Terrific newsabout Dr. Phil - *** Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
08:12:58
Comments
Rodney Stark, in my opinion, is a brilliant sociologist and scholar. I have read several of his books (including the one which was recently nominated for a Pulitzer prize). I do not believe that he is aware of how his videotape interview has been chopped up and 'spun' by the WTS (along with their rumored COPYWRITING of his resume!) and is being used as a PR tactic to silence and intimidate any who would dare to question their treatment of Bill Bowen and others who are suing them for criminal behavior. I believe the resulting PR video, coupled with their 'two witness' policy could be used to prosecute them for misleading people into thinking that they CAN get away with the crime of pedophilia (which would then make them 'accessories to the crimes' committed by those who follow them). I would like for Mr. Stark to become aware of what is going on. Tho, the last time I checked, he remains an agnostic, I don't believe he would approve of the way in which his professional reputation and a videotape interview with him is being 'used' to cover their asses in a cloud of 'divine and righteous innocence'. Wouldn't it be nice if his interaction with the WTS under these circumstances might be the thing that FINALLY pushes him over to a faith in God. (He sure has come close!)

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
08:53:01
Comments
This came from JahChristian newsletter, and was on the Watchtower Observer: (It is long, but shows corruption on behalf of Watchtower legal personnel) WATCHTOWER WALLS CRUMBLE THE WATCHTOWER BIBLE AND TRACT SOCIETY INC. FOUND RESPONSIBLE FOR 18 YEAR LONG IRS TAX PROSECUTION THROUGH LOCAL LAWYERS TO DESTROY MARRIAGE AND ESTATE IN TRUST OF ALVIN & JACQUELINE HANSEN THROUGH DAUGHTER-IN-LAW, AND FAMILY PRESS RELEASE By ABVA Group Trust International MEDFORD,OREGON - ABVA TRUST lawyer, Melvin E. Soll, in Dover, Delaware, filed criminal charges against THE WATCH TOWER, JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES, on October 2, 1998, in the ABVA TRUST lawsuit in San Francisco, California, Superior Court, Civil No. 968484. The local law firms of Frohnmayer & Deatherage, and Jacobson Jewett, Thierolf & Dickey, (of Medford, Oregon) were hired by the Watchtower, and the Hansen's bookkeeper, Daralene Hansen to fabricate false IRS tax crimes against Alvin Hansen in 1985, and to file unwanted divorce and lunacy suits against Mr. Hansen in 1989 and since. Alvin & Jacqueline Hansen, who formed a Delaware trust in 1982, were robbed of trust assets in 1983, and Alvin was MALICIOUSLY SENT TO PRISON BY HIS OWN LAWYERS and JUDGE JAMES BURNS for failure to file a tax return his CPA actually filed. Court records actually admit there was no valid IRS charges, and documents show the IRS filed false liens against Alvin and though the court dismissed the conviction, 'they' left Alvin in prison for 12 months. The Hansen's sued and took a $65 Million Dollar Default Judgment in February, 1989. That's when Watchtower paid lawyers stirred up dissension in the family and influenced Jacqueline to file the first Divorce and Lunacy suits to evade payment of this Judgment by defamation of Alvin. During his kidnap for 6 days at Rogue Valley Medical Center, Judge Loren L. Sawyer, who had persecuted Alvin in the 80's for fighting for his family's rights secretly committed Alvin, as the same lawyers had a forged Power of Attorney recorded over Alvin to Leo A. Had Jr., controlling the "Marital Affairs of Alvin and Jacqueline Hansen." Six days later, Mr. Hoad granted the IRS a $400,000.00 dollar false tax lien in secret preventing the Hansen's from selling trust assets, or doing any business what-so-ever, and totally destroying their credit. These crimes came to light on, July 31, 1991, when the IRS Agent Sam Peden and Jackson County Sheriff C.W. Smith, raided the Hansen's home owned by Alvin's mother, Mrs. Bertha Hooker on Pioneer Road, and stole all the family's vehicles and real properties. The Hansen's sued again in Jackson County, Oregon and Butte County, California, and took more Judgments by default, revoked the forged Power Of Attorney's and Tax Liens, and invoked the right to recover of all their admitted stolen property. ..More lawsuits were filed in the Federal Courts of Sacramento, San Francisco, California, and Delaware as Judges and Watchtower lawyers corrupted the courts to discredit the very Judgments they admitted. The Watchtower, INC. and Oregon Bar, local lawyers and Judges, Sawyer, Karaman, Shively, Arnold, Orf, State of Oregon, Bank of America, Bear Stearns, Inc., and Shearson American Express, Chubb Insurance, were among the many debtors who settled the Judgments in Delaware by their nominee, Bond Street Holdings, LTD., and Bank of America officers of this Delaware corporation, August 4, 1993, and promised to return all the stolen property, and pay all victims, co-Judgment Holders. Within days, the Oregon debtor's, and lawyers again sought to evade this agreement by conspiring to destroy Alvin Hansen, the trustee of this settlement trust, and during foreclosure of the contract filed a false criminal indictment against Alvin and John Hansen, accusing them of stealing back Mrs. Hansen's Mazda 'Miata' (stolen by the IRS) across a state line two years before, just to discredit Hansen and evade the very debt they contracted to pay. Documents showed that Alvin had right and authority to transport his wife's car back to Oregon. For the next 54 months, Alvin was maliciously prosecuted and imprisoned as these lawyers filed forged deeds to the marital home in trust, and filed more malicious divorce suits exparte, (in secret), threatened and paid Mrs. Hansen to lie, and take bribes, and defend the Watchtower, that she sued for 9 years with Alvin. Typical of Watchtower persecutions using the IRS and its banks, and many retained lawyers to destroy members who question their control and restrict freedom of speech and conscience in hundreds of cases. They used a family member, in this case, Daralene Hansen, to sue ABVA TRUST and the Hansen's through Lawyer, Richard Thierolf, as the Bank of America, U.S. Attorney Gary Sussman, held Alvin kidnapped on false charges of incompetence without a trial for over 54 months. The Watchtower threatened Mrs. Hansen in 1992, with disfellowshipping and tax fraud if she kept reading and talking about banned books exposing the Watchtower's vicious practices of using divorce lawyers to destroy and divide families, as in the case of the Hansen's. Hundreds of suits are filed each year against the Watchtower for malicious violations of constitutional rights, and liberty of speech and conscience, but are always met with stepped up prosecutions by their banks, IRS, and U.S. Attorney co-debtors. In August, 1998, while Mr. Hansen was kidnapped for 12 months, these same lawyers paid by the Watchtower, criminally transferred the Hansen's 28 year marital residence deeded to the Jacqueline Hansen Living Trust to a Kenneth Anderson, who borrowed the dirty money from one of the debtors, Bank of America. The other shock came when Hansen learned that Judge G. Phillip Arnold had signed a Judgment of Divorce Exparte, against Alvin on December 5, 1997, without service or knowledge and gave all Hansen's personal, marital and trust assets to Jacqueline. Court records show that Judges Sawyer and Attorney Thierolf, (who Mrs. Hansen filed criminal complaints and affidavits against in July, 1992, to the Oregon Bar in addition to the Judgments) signed a Stipulated Judgment against the Hansen's and ABVA GROUP TRUST INT., placing Daralene Hansen as the Agent Owner of ABVA GROUP TRUST on the official tax assessors role, in control of the two trusts and all stolen trust assets. She now has been exposed and wants her name removed from the false record under Attorney Solls demands. All this crime was committed in the view of the San Francisco Court lawsuit filed by the Hansen's and ABVA TRUST on July 2, 1997, who ordered all property returned to the Hansen's and ABVA TRUST on July 15, 1997, and restrained further kidnap of Mr. Hansen. Alvin and Jacqueline Hansen Trustee's are Plaintiffs in that case and Mr. Soll is taking another Judgment against the Watchtower and Daralene Hansen's lawyers, Jacobson, Jewett, Thierolf & Dickey, who have failed to comply with the Courts Order, holding it in contempt, and have failed to appear and defend the forgery charges brought by the Trust Attorney, Mr. Soll. Letter demanding return of all stolen assets, and payment of the more than 24 Billion dollar debt have produced no compliance or denial by court appearance, thus admitting the charges and crimes on the Jackson County records and in the records in California. ABVA TRUST is calling for victims of the Watchtower practices of defamation by threats and disfellowshipping, who may have suffered similar violence and family breakup to make response to this paper or Mr. Soll at 64 Liberto Lane, Dover, Delaware 19901, as ABVA TRUST is executing Judgment against the Watchtower, et al, to seize its corporate assets and file incompetent charges against its office and directors for their evil and criminal practices in hopes of putting an end to their persecutions for profit. Please reply in confidence in person or through your attorney with documentation. This paper requests response from Commentary Press, and David Reed, dba. THE FRIENDS, etc. For 15 page info pack on IRS documents used and discovered in Mr. Hansen's case, send $5.00 to this publication. Shipping included. Send order to: The American's Bulletin c/o P.O. Box #3096 Central Point, Oregon USA 97502

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
10:14:59
Comments
Rodney Stark and the Watchtower Society... Let's Write the University of Washington. (Addresses at bottom)...Something along these lines ... University Of Washington Sociology Professor Dr Stark is a brilliant sociologist and scholar. Currently is engaging in a questionable enterprise, Dr Stark is using his professional credentials to support disfellowshipping as practiced by the Watchtower. This is an extreme form of shunning that treats former members and even family members as if they are dead. Watchtower claims this practice is used to keep the congregation clean from unrepentant wrongdoers, nevertheless it is also used to force compliance to any Watchtower doctrine and stop any dissention. Watchtower uses the disfellowshipping practice to silence Whistle blowers and eliminate any protest inside the congregation to the policy of covering up sexual abuse and to allow pedophiles to remain members. Sexual molesters are not prosecuted by civil authorities and go on to molest other children both inside and outside the congregation. MSNBC Dateline and the BBC Pan aroma have recently broadcast news programs detailing the cover-up of the sexual abuse of children in the Jehovah's Witness Community. British Ministers of Parliament are considering an investigation. The UK Guardian and NY Times have published stories. Disfellowshipping allows sexual abuse of children to continue and to silence protests. Dr Stark has a right to earn his living by endorsing whatever policy he sees fit. Yet he has a moral and professional responsibility to investigate this policy and speak to the victims. Dr Stark has not responded to the many emails sent to him, nor has he accepted an invitation to speak to Bill Bowen, a victim's advocate for abused Jehovah's Witnesses children and founder of Silentlambs.org. Dr. Stark's professional credentials, as posted on JW-Media. Org, include his position as Professor of Sociology at the University of Washington. We appeal to the Sociology Dept to encourage Dr Stark to at least respond to our letters and emails. Children are being harmed, whistle blowers removed and pedophiles protected... Department Head. Bob Crutchfield ... crutch@u.washington.edu... http://www.soc.washington.edu/people/faculty/faculty.asp ...lists all faculty of the dept... Mailing Address ... Department of Sociology . University of Washington . 202 Savery Hall, Box 353340 . Seattle, WA 98195-3340

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
12:27:29
Comments
Dr Rodney Stark's email: socstark@aol.com ... All Sociology Dept emails...kbeckett@u.washington.edu,alblack@u.washington.edu, bridges@u.washington.edu, brines@u.washington.edu, burstein@u.washington.edu, chirot@u.washington.edu, crutch@u.washington.edu, peto@u.washington.edu, handcock@u.washington.edu, hechter@u.washington.edu, herting@u.washington.edu, charles@u.washington.edu, jhoward@u.washington.edu, hyojoung@u.washington.edu, kitts@u.washington.edu, dkuo@u.washington.edu, lavely@u.washington.edu, leporepc@u.washington.edu, matsueda@u.washington.edu, dminkoff@u.washington.edu, morrism@u.washington.edu, bpettit@u.washington.edu, pfaff@u.washington.edu, pitch@u.washington.edu, raftery@stat.washington.edu, couples@u.washington.edu, jwscott@u.washington.edu, stovel@u.washington.edu, tolnay@u.washington.edu, jrwarren@u.washington.edu, weis@u.washington.edu

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
12:40:56
Comments
WHAT I WROTE TO DR PHIL *** : My name is Jesika and I was raised one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I was what they call disfellowshipped or shunned by the tender age of 15. I haven't spoken to anyone on my dad's side of the family other than my dad for over 11yrs. They refuse to have anything to do with me because of their religion. I gave birth to the first great grand child and my grandmother has only seen him when he was in the hospital. My son was in Children's hospital within 2 days of being born and NOONE on my fathers side came to the hospital. My son had a 50-50 chance of surviving the surgery, and no one came or even called me-- I had just turned 18 and newly married. I was escorted out of the church when I went to my cousin's wedding, and wasn't invited,again, to my other cousin's wedding. This religion tears families apart, and when my uncle molested me when I was 4 they didn't throw him out, and when my father had an affair with another married women in the same church my parents were attending, they didn't throw him out either. This is a terrible thing to do to someone, and they leave it up to the men in the church to decide if you are truly sorry for what you have done. If they think you are sorry (anyone can produce tears) then you get a slap on the hand and told don't do it anymore. If they think you aren't "repentant" than they take your whole life away,including your family. Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
13:43:21
Comments
HEY JUST PASSING THRU TO SAY HI AND SAY I MISS YOU PEOPLE I BEEN BUSY WITH SOME OTHER STUFF AND HAVEN'T FORGOTTEN ANYONE HOPE TO CATCH UP ON WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE NEXT COUPLE DAYS LOVE PENNY

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
13:59:58
Comments
This is a wonderful site. I have had personal experience within the congregation and their ability to cover up these gross acts toward children. I'm glad to hear that someone spoke out against the JW's. Thank you.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
14:28:45
Comments
Question for Jehovah's Witness Matt. 5:10 "Happy are those who have been persecuted for righteousness sake, since the kingdom of the heavens belongs to them." (JW claim the persecuted part of Matt. 5:10 but don't want to go to heaven?) This is another example of the Watchtower belief system not fitting in with bible teaching.

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
14:31:13
Comments
I am posting this message to let everyone know that i have been in touch with the office of the District Attorney of Brooklyn New York. I explained to the person the situation about the pedophilia coverup within the wts. I also told them about the letters to the elders over the years which have basically instructed the elders to keep pedophilia cases in-house and not to go to the authorities. I told them also about the database of 23,720 which the wts refuses to hand over to anyone. They have told me that their jurisdiction only covers Brooklyn. So in order for anything to possibly be done, they need victims from Brooklyn who have been sexually molested within one of the watchtower society's congregations to come forward .Therefore, if anyone here is a victim of pedophilia within the watchtower society and this happened in Brooklyn, or if anyone here knows of victims from Brooklyn, please either call the Brooklyn District Attorneys office at 718-250-2340 and ask for Anthony Barosy, or you can e-mail me at erewhon39@hotmail.com Thank you, Worf

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
14:35:13
Comments
I am posting this message to let everyone know that i have been in touch with the office of the District Attorney of Brooklyn New York. I explained to the person the situation about the pedophilia coverup within the wts. I also told them about the letters to the elders over the years which have basically instructed the elders to keep pedophilia cases in-house and not to go to the authorities. I told them also about the database of 23,720 which the wts refuses to hand over to anyone. They have told me that their jurisdiction only covers Brooklyn. So in order for anything to possibly be done, they need victims from Brooklyn who have been sexually molested within one of the watchtower society's congregations to come forward .Therefore, if anyone here is a victim of pedophilia within the watchtower society and this happened in Brooklyn, or if anyone here knows of victims from Brooklyn, please either call the Brooklyn District Attorneys office at 718-250-2340 and ask for Anthony Barosy, or you can e-mail me at erewhon39@hotmail.com Thank you, Worf

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
15:01:49
Comments
I have learned that every JW enjoys hurting people that are "shunned" in their little dirty circle. It is nice to finally see that this tactic is now shown as nothing more that "policy" to intimidate used by "hucksters!" By disfellowshipping Bill in the manner that they did they have shown the demonic intent of where they plan to drive the Organization. I hope that all people following this saga have been shown true light to the intent of what the Watchtower has always been. Sequia

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
16:03:10
Comments
hello. i am a 33 year old disfellowshipped woman. i was also molested by an elder when i was ten. he is still part of the congregation but he can never be an elder. (big deal) he was never even brought into a judicial meeting because i was the only one to say something. i think you are an angel with so many blessings to bestow and you will be returned with these blessings ten fold. god bless you. this is just what i would have loved to see when i was a child. i am thankful to be away from the wts and will be writing a book about my experiences. thanks for the support..hugs valerie

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
16:45:14
Comments
UNIVERSITY OF WASHINGTON . . .I sent emails to everyone and got a lot of automated replies and one accusation of writing POISON PEN letters . . . Dr Rodney Stark's email: socstark@aol.com ... All Sociology Dept emails... kbeckett@u.washington.edu,alblack@u.washington.edu, bridges@u.washington.edu, brines@u.washington.edu, burstein@u.washington.edu, chirot@u.washington.edu, crutch@u.washington.edu, peto@u.washington.edu, handcock@u.washington.edu, hechter@u.washington.edu, herting@u.washington.edu, charles@u.washington.edu, jhoward@u.washington.edu, hyojoung@u.washington.edu, kitts@u.washington.edu, dkuo@u.washington.edu, lavely@u.washington.edu, leporepc@u.washington.edu, matsueda@u.washington.edu, dminkoff@u.washington.edu, morrism@u.washington.edu, bpettit@u.washington.edu, pfaff@u.washington.edu, pitch@u.washington.edu, raftery@stat.washington.edu, couples@u.washington.edu, jwscott@u.washington.edu, stovel@u.washington.edu, tolnay@u.washington.edu, jrwarren@u.washington.edu, weis@u.washington.edu

Remote User:
Date:
30 Jul 2002
Time:
19:40:01
Comments
Excellent idea about letting Dr. Stark know what he has done to help the WTS cover=up the pedophilia and perpetuate the cruelty that shunning causes. I would like to think that if he does not know the truth about all this, and is told that he would be outraged and come over to this side. *** BUT two business days have passed and I still have not gotten a reply. My guess is that most people do business with who ever pays them. Dr. Stark has no investment in this other than being paid. *** But the University should know what he is involved with and the judges for the Pulitzer Prize should know also. And maybe he covets his reputation enough to pay more attention to what has been done with his statements>>> ? Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
02:05:49
Comments
It is about time someone took a stand against the people that claim they are the "true religion" This only proves that they are "not from this world" Thank you creating this web site for all to see. restlesshrt@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
05:01:29
Comments
The day will come when "Big Brother" Watchtower will burn out like a cheap walmart light bulb.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
07:00:38
Comments
TO THE JULY 30 POST WRITER REGARDING MATT 5:10. that SCRIPTURE READ "THE KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS", THIS IS IN REFERENCE TO A KINGDOM RULED BY THOSE IN HEAVEN, THE 144,000 ALONG WITH JESUS. NO INCONSISTENCY HERE, JUST LACK OF REASONING ABILITY ON YOUR PART. KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS / KINGDOM IN THE HEAVENS, SEE THE DIFFERENCE? FUZZ

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
07:08:44
Comments
Hi Claudine - Regarding Stark, it's hard to find a professor. We're working on it. Didn't someone show an e-mail address a short while back?

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
07:31:04
Comments
Woah! Just looking back on previous days (I've been away from the board for a little while). I think you have done an EXCELLENT job in tracking down Stark! I'm VERY impressed. And you letter is great EXCEPT that I would not focus on protesting the policy of shunning - (as Stark pointed out in the video, other religions have been known to have such a policy, too)...What is messed up about the policy in this instance is that they are using it to silence Bowen (and I believe, without even telling him WHAT they're disfellowshipping him for) for his effort to expose their criminal and immoral behavior. They are using the policy in a way that is not even in accord with their own policies. And surely not in accord with their stated purpose, 'to remove the evildoer from among yourselves'. They have simply turned to it as a weapon. And allowing them to do so in THIS case is covering up THEIR abuse of children. I think he would care about the role they have created for him in that. His being on the video adds 'credence' to their cover up and is primarily for the sake of trying to prevent others, including parents, from knowing about what is happening...don't focus on the policy of shunning so much. Focus on Bill Bowen, their use of shunning to silence a whistle-blower and the cruel and scandalous nature of the cover-up.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
08:39:11
Comments
To Fuzz & Witnesses So are you telling me that Matt. 5:10 is only to be applied to the so called "144,000"? Blessed are those(doesn't say 144,000 here) who are persecuted because of righteousness(Does this mean that only 144,000 can be righteous?) for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Just an interesting note to Jehovah's Witness. It has been stated that the Watchtower only uses 6.5% of the scriptures. I believe this is true. That is why the Organization puts so much emphasis on its other literature such as the Watchtower magazine and all the books used for "book studies" vs bible studies. This way they can built their theology around the few bible verses and lay emphasis on what the Watchtower wants to promote. I think that the Witness student would have a very different view on the scriptures if they studied the bible only.(Bible helps are OK in moderation, but not to be replacing of the scriptures) Of course the Organization has come out in print and said that the average person can not understand the bible. Yet we find that the Bereans were able to examine "the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."Acts 17:11 Nothing here about checking the Watchtower magazine.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
08:39:49
Comments
To Fuzz & Witnesses... So are you telling me that Matt. 5:10 is only to be applied to the so called "144,000"? Blessed are those(doesn't say 144,000 here) who are persecuted because of righteousness(Does this mean that only 144,000 can be righteous?) for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. Just an interesting note to Jehovah's Witness. It has been stated that the Watchtower only uses 6.5% of the scriptures. I believe this is true. That is why the Organization puts so much emphasis on its other literature such as the Watchtower magazine and all the books used for "book studies" vs bible studies. This way they can built their theology around the few bible verses and lay emphasis on what the Watchtower wants to promote. I think that the Witness student would have a very different view on the scriptures if they studied the bible only.(Bible helps are OK in moderation, but not to be replacing of the scriptures) Of course the Organization has come out in print and said that the average person can not understand the bible. Yet we find that the Bereans were able to examine "the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true."Acts 17:11 Nothing here about checking the Watchtower magazine.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
09:17:20
Comments
RE: Rodney Stark & Univ. of Wash... RE: Letter writing advice... Your points are well made please write a letter, too. I have emailed every one on the faculty. Please everyone send an email!!!!! ... Here is the reply from the Dept Head. Dr Crutchfield: The University of Washington Department of Sociology affirms the importance of academic freedom and acknowledges the centrality of debate in the advancement of knowledge. Towards that end we support the right of our colleagues to make their own intellectual decisions. We do not believe that anonymous and unsubstantiated allegations intended to embarrass a member of the department is consistent with the values of academic freedom or open intellectual debate...(my comment) . . .Of course, we do not have intellectual debate as witnesses or with Dr Stark but that apparently is our problem

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
10:40:41
Comments
Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit Related topics: Let Us Abhor What is Wicked Jehovah's Witnesses—Who Are They? "No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness." —HEBREWS 12:11. THINK back to your childhood days. Can you recall your parents disciplining you? Most of us can. The apostle Paul used that as an illustration when commenting on discipline from God, as we read at Hebrews 12:9-11. God's fatherly discipline, which can affect our spiritual lives, can take many forms. One is his arrangement to exclude from the Christian congregation a person who no longer wants to live by God's standards, or who refuses to do so. A person who is thus strongly chastised or disciplined may repent and turn around. In the process, the congregation of loyal ones are also disciplined in that they learn the importance of conforming to God's high standards. —1 Timothy 1:20. 'But,' someone may ask, 'is it not harsh to expel and then refuse to talk with the expelled person?' Such a view surfaced in a recent court case involving a woman who was raised by parents who were Jehovah's Witnesses. Her parents had been disfellowshipped. She was not, but she voluntarily disassociated herself by writing a letter withdrawing from the congregation. Accordingly, the congregation was simply informed that she was no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses. She moved away, but years later she returned and found that local Witnesses would not converse with her. So she took the matter to court. What was the outcome, and how might this affect you? In order to understand the matter properly, let us see what the Bible says about the related subject of disfellowshipping. Why This Firm Stand? "Cutting ourselves off completely from all association with [my disfellowshipped sister] Margaret tested our loyalty to Jehovah's arrangement. It gave our family opportunity to show that we really believe that Jehovah's way is best."—Lynette. Most true Christians loyally support God and his righteous laws. (1 Thessalonians 1:2-7; Hebrews 6:10) Occasionally, though, a person deviates from the path of truth. For example, despite help from Christian elders, he may unrepentantly violate God's laws. Or he may reject the faith by teaching false doctrine or by disassociating himself from the congregation. Then what should be done? Such things occurred even while the apostles were alive; hence, let us see what they wrote about this. When a man in Corinth was unrepentantly immoral, Paul told the congregation: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man." (1 Corinthians 5:11-13) The same was to occur with apostates, such as Hymenaeus: "As for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition; knowing that such a man has been turned out of the way and is sinning." (Titus 3:10, 11; 1 Timothy 1:19, 20) Such shunning would be appropriate, too, for anyone who rejects the congregation: "They went out from us, but they were not of our sort; for if they had been of our sort, they would have remained with us. But they went out that it might be shown up that not all are of our sort."—1 John 2:18, 19. Hopefully, such a one will repent so that he can be accepted back. (Acts 3:19) But meanwhile, may Christians have limited fellowship with him, or is strict avoidance necessary? If so, why? Cut Off Thoroughly? Christians do not hold themselves aloof from people. We have normal contacts with neighbors, workmates, schoolmates, and others, and witness to them even if some are 'fornicators, greedy persons, extortioners, or idolaters.' Paul wrote that we cannot avoid them completely, 'otherwise we would have to get out of the world.' He directed that it was to be different, though, with "a brother" who lived like that: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that [has returned to such ways], not even eating with such a man."—1 Corinthians 5:9-11; Mark 2:13-17. In the apostle John's writings, we find similar counsel that emphasizes how thoroughly Christians are to avoid such ones: "Everyone that pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God . . . If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, never receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. For he that says a greeting [Greek, khai'ro] to him is a sharer in his wicked works." * —2 John 9-11. Why is such a firm stand appropriate even today? Well, reflect on the severe cutting off mandated in God's Law to Israel. In various serious matters, willful violators were executed. (Leviticus 20:10; Numbers 15:30, 31) When that happened, others, even relatives, could no longer speak with the dead lawbreaker. (Leviticus 19:1-4; Deuteronomy 13:1-5; 17:1-7) Though loyal Israelites back then were normal humans with emotions like ours, they knew that God is just and loving and that his Law protected their moral and spiritual cleanness. So they could accept that his arrangement to cut off wrongdoers was fundamentally a good and right thing.—Job 34:10-12. We can be just as sure that God's arrangement that Christians refuse to fellowship with someone who has been expelled for unrepentant sin is a wise protection for us. "Clear away the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, according as you are free from ferment." (1 Corinthians 5:7) By also avoiding persons who have deliberately disassociated themselves, Christians are protected from possible critical, unappreciative, or even apostate views. —Hebrews 12:15, 16. What About Relatives? God certainly realizes that carrying out his righteous laws about cutting off wrongdoers often involves and affects relatives. As mentioned above, when an Israelite wrongdoer was executed, no more family association was possible. In fact, if a son was a drunkard and a glutton, his parents were to bring him before the judges, and if he was unrepentant, the parents were to share in the just executing of him, 'to clear away what is bad from the midst of Israel.' (Deuteronomy 21:18-21) You can appreciate that this would not have been easy for them. Imagine, too, how the wrongdoer's brothers, sisters, or grandparents felt. Yet, their putting loyalty to their righteous God before family affection could be lifesaving for them. Recall the case of Korah, a leader in rebellion against God's leadership through Moses. In his perfect justice, Jehovah saw that Korah had to die. But all loyal ones were advised: "Turn aside, please, from before the tents of these wicked men and do not touch anything that belongs to them, that you may not be swept away in all their sin." Relatives who would not accept God's warning died with the rebels. But some of Korah's relatives wisely chose to be loyal to Jehovah, which saved their lives and led to future blessings. —Numbers 16:16-33; 26:9-11; 2 Chronicles 20:19. Cutting off from the Christian congregation does not involve immediate death, so family ties continue. Thus, a man who is disfellowshipped or who disassociates himself may still live at home with his Christian wife and faithful children. Respect for God's judgments and the congregation's action will move the wife and children to recognize that by his course, he altered the spiritual bond that existed between them. Yet, since his being disfellowshipped does not end their blood ties or marriage relationship, normal family affections and dealings can continue. The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living outside the immediate family circle and home. It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum, in line with the divine principle: "Quit mixing in company with anyone called a brother that is a fornicator or a greedy person [or guilty of another gross sin], . . . not even eating with such a man." —1 Corinthians 5:11. Understandably, this may be difficult because of emotions and family ties, such as grandparents' love for their grandchildren. Yet, this is a test of loyalty to God, as stated by the sister quoted on page 26. Anyone who is feeling the sadness and pain that the disfellowshipped relative has thus caused may find comfort and be encouraged by the example set by some of Korah's relatives. —Psalm 84:10-12. # The Court Decision You may want to know the outcome of the court case involving a woman who was upset because former acquaintances would not converse with her after she chose to reject the faith, disassociating herself from the congregation. Before the case went to trial, a federal district court summarily granted judgment against her. That judgment was based on the concept that courts do not get involved in church disciplinary matters. She then appealed. The unanimous judgment of the federal court of appeals% was based on broader grounds of First Amendment (of the U.S. Constitution) rights: "Because the practice of shunning is a part of the faith of the Jehovah's Witness, we find that the 'free exercise' provision of the United States Constitution . . . precludes [her] from prevailing. The defendants have a constitutionally protected privilege to engage in the practice of shunning. Accordingly, we affirm" the earlier judgment of the district court. The court opinion continued: "Shunning is a practice engaged in by Jehovah's Witnesses pursuant to their interpretation of canonical text, and we are not free to reinterpret that text . . . The defendants are entitled to the free exercise of their religious beliefs . . . Courts generally do not scrutinize closely the relationship among members (or former members) of a church. Churches are afforded great latitude when they impose discipline on members or former members. We agree with [former U.S. Supreme Court] Justice Jackson's view that '[r]eligious activities which concern only members of the faith are and ought to be free—as nearly absolutely free as anything can be.' . . . The members of the Church [she] decided to abandon have concluded that they no longer want to associate with her. We hold that they are free to make that choice." The court of appeals acknowledged that even if the woman felt distress because former acquaintances chose not to converse with her, "permitting her to recover for intangible or emotional injuries would unconstitutionally restrict the Jehovah's Witnesses free exercise of religion . . . The constitutional guarantee of the free exercise of religion requires that society tolerate the type of harms suffered by [her] as a price well worth paying to safeguard the right of religious difference that all citizens enjoy." This decision has, in a sense, received even more weight since it was handed down. How so? The woman later petitioned the highest court in the land to hear the case and possibly overturn the decision against her. But in November 1987, the United States Supreme Court refused to do so. Hence, this important case determined that a disfellowshipped or disassociated person cannot recover damages from Jehovah's Witnesses in a court of law for being shunned.^ Since the congregation was responding to the perfect directions that all of us can read in God's Word and applying it, the person is feeling a loss brought on by his or her own actions. Discipline—Many Benefit Some outsiders, upon hearing about disfellowshipping, are inclined to sympathize with a wrongdoer who can no longer converse with members of the Christian congregation. But is not such sympathy misplaced? Consider the potential benefit that the wrongdoer and others may receive. For example, on page 26 we noted Lynette's comment about her choice 'to cut herself off completely from all association' with her disfellowshipped sister Margaret. She and her Christian relatives 'believed that Jehovah's way is best.' And it is! Lynette's sister later told her: 'If you had viewed the disfellowshipping lightly, I know that I would not have taken steps toward reinstatement as soon as I did. Being totally cut off from loved ones and from close contact with the congregation created a strong desire to repent. I realized just how wrong my course was and how serious it was to turn my back on Jehovah.' In another case, Laurie's parents were disfellowshipped. Yet she says: 'My association with them never stopped but increased. As time went on, I became more and more inactive. I got to the point of not even attending meetings.' Then she read material in The Watchtower of September 1 and 15, 1981, that stressed the counsel of 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 and 2 John 9-11. "It was as if a light bulb were turned on in me," she writes. 'I knew I would have to make some changes. I now better understand the meaning of Matthew 10:34-36. My decision was not an easy one for my family to swallow, for my son, five, is the only boy, and they love him dearly.' It is hoped that losing such association will touch the parents' hearts, as it did Margaret's. Still, the discipline involved helped Laurie: 'I am back out in the field ministry. My marriage and family are stronger because of my change, and so am I.' Or consider the feelings of one who was disfellowshipped and later reinstated. Sandi wrote: 'I would like to thank you for the very helpful and instructive articles [mentioned above] on reproof and disfellowshipping. I am happy that Jehovah loves his people enough to see that his organization is kept clean. What may seem harsh to outsiders is both necessary and really a loving thing to do. I am grateful that our heavenly Father is a loving and forgiving God.' So our God who requires that an unrepentant wrongdoer be expelled from the congregation also lovingly shows that a sinner can be reinstated in the congregation if he repents and turns around. (A disassociated person can similarly request to become part of the congregation again.) Thereafter he can be comforted by Christians who will confirm their love for him. (2 Corinthians 2:5-11; 7:8-13) Truly, it is just as Paul wrote: "No discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but grievous; yet afterward to those who have been trained by it yields peaceable fruit, namely, righteousness."—Hebrews 12:11. Excommunication—What Effect? English historian Edward Gibbon wrote about the propriety and effect of disfellowshipping nearer the time of the apostles: "It is the undoubted right of every society to exclude from its communion and benefits such among its members as reject or violate those regulations which have been established by general consent... The consequences of excommunication were of a temporal [earthly] as well as a spiritual nature. The Christian against whom it was pronounced was deprived of any part in the oblations of the faithful. The ties both of religious and of private friendship were dissolved." * John here used khai'ro, which was a greeting like "good day" or "hello." (Acts 15:23; Matthew 28:9) He did not use a·spa'zo·mai (as in verse 13), which means "to enfold in the arms, thus to greet, to welcome" and may have implied a very warm greeting, even with an embrace. (Luke 10:4; 11:43; Acts 20:1, 37; 1 Thessalonians 5:26) So the direction at 2 John 11 could well mean not to say even "hello" to such ones.—See The Watchtower of July 15, 1985, page 31. # For a discussion of a relative's being disfellowshipped, see The Watchtower of September 15, 1981, pages 26-31. % 819 F.2d 875 (9th Cir. 1987). ^ Though various individuals have brought suit, no court has rendered a judgment against Jehovah's Witnesses over their Bible-based practice of shunning. Appeared in The Watchtower April 15, 1988 Home | Beliefs | Future | Medical | Topics | Contact Us | Publications | Languages | Search | Index Copyright © 2002 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. All rights reserved.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
10:49:41
Comments
Let Us ABHOR What Is Wicked Related topics: Comfort for Those With a "Stricken Spirit" Protect Your Children! Child Molesting—You Can Protect Your Child Discipline That Can Yield Peaceable Fruit JEHOVAH'S is a holy God. In ancient times he was "the Holy One of Israel," and as such he demanded that Israel be clean, unsullied. (Psalm 89:18) He told his chosen people: "You must prove yourselves holy, because I am holy." (Leviticus 11:45) Anyone who wanted to "ascend into the mountain of Jehovah" had to be "innocent in his hands and clean in heart." (Psalm 24:3, 4) That meant more than merely avoiding sinful acts. It meant "the hating of bad."—Proverbs 8:13. Lovingly, Jehovah laid down detailed laws so that the nation of Israel could identify and avoid wrongdoing. (Romans 7:7, 12) These laws included strict guidelines on morality. Adultery, homosexual acts, incestuous relationships, and bestiality were all identified as unholy spiritual pollutants. (Leviticus 18:23; 20:10-17) Those guilty of such degraded acts were cut off from the nation of Israel. When the congregation of anointed Christians became "the Israel of God," similar moral standards were laid down for them. (Galatians 6:16) Christians too were to "abhor what is wicked." (Romans 12:9) Jehovah's words to Israel also applied to them: "You must be holy, because I am holy." (1 Peter 1:15, 16) Such unholy practices as fornication, adultery, homosexual acts, bestiality, and incest were not to corrupt the Christian congregation. Those refusing to stop engaging in such things would be excluded from God's Kingdom. (Romans 1:26, 27; 2:22; 1 Corinthians 6:9, 10; Hebrews 13:4) In these "last days," the same standards apply to the "other sheep." (2 Timothy 3:1; John 10:16) As a result, anointed Christians and other sheep make up a clean and wholesome people, able to carry the name of their God as Jehovah's Witnesses.—Isaiah 43:10. Keeping the Congregation Clean In contrast, the world condones all kinds of immorality. Although true Christians are different, they should not forget that many who now serve Jehovah were once in the world. There are many who, before they knew our holy God, saw no reason not to indulge the desires and fantasies of their fallen flesh, wallowing in a "low sink of debauchery." (1 Peter 4:4) The apostle Paul, after describing the disgusting practices of degraded people of the nations, said: "That is what some of you were." Still, he went on to say: "But you have been washed clean, but you have been sanctified, but you have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God."—1 Corinthians 6:11. What a comforting statement that is! Whatever a person did earlier in life, he changes when the glorious good news about the Christ has an effect on his heart. He exercises faith and dedicates himself to Jehovah God. From then on he lives a morally pure life, washed clean in God's eyes. (Hebrews 9:14) The sins that he committed previously are pardoned, and he can 'stretch forward to the things ahead.'*—Philippians 3:13, 14; Romans 4:7, 8. Jehovah forgave repentant David for murder and adultery, and He forgave repentant Manasseh for immoral idolatry and much bloodshed. (2 Samuel 12:9, 13; 2 Chronicles 33:2-6, 10-13) We can be truly grateful that he is prepared to forgive us too if we repent and approach him in sincerity and humility. Still, despite Jehovah's forgiving David and Manasseh, these two men—and Israel with them—had to live with the consequences of their sinful acts. (2 Samuel 12:11, 12; Jeremiah 15:3-5) In a similar way, while Jehovah forgives repentant sinners, there may be consequences of their actions that cannot be avoided. Inevitable Consequences While Jehovah forgives repentant sinners, there may be consequences of their actions that cannot be avoided For example, a man who lives a life of immoral debauchery and contracts AIDS may accept the truth and turn his life around to the point of dedication and baptism. Now he is a spiritually clean Christian having a relationship with God and a wonderful hope for the future; but he still has AIDS. He may eventually die of the disease, a sad but inescapable consequence of his former conduct. For some Christians the effects of former gross immorality may persist in other ways. For years after their baptism, perhaps for the rest of their lives in this system of things, they may have to fight urges in their flesh to return to their previous immoral life-style. With the help of Jehovah's spirit, many succeed in resisting. But they have to wage a constant battle.—Galatians 5:16, 17. Such ones do not sin as long as they control their urges. But if they are men, they may wisely decide not to 'reach out' for responsibility in the congregation while still having to struggle with powerful fleshly impulses. (1 Timothy 3:1) Why? Because they know the trust that the congregation puts in the elders. (Isaiah 32:1, 2; Hebrews 13:17) They realize that the elders are consulted on many intimate matters and have to handle sensitive situations. It would be neither loving, wise, nor reasonable for one waging a constant fight with unclean fleshly desires to reach out for such a responsible position.—Proverbs 14:16; John 15:12, 13; Romans 12:1. For a man who was a child molester before he was baptized, there may be another consequence. When he learns the truth, he repents and turns around, not bringing that cruel sin into the congregation. He may thereafter make fine progress, completely overcome his wrong impulses, and even be inclined to 'reach out' for a responsible position in the congregation. What, though, if he still has to live down notoriety in the community as a former child molester? Would he "be irreprehensible, . . . have a fine testimony from people on the outside, . . . [be] free from accusation"? (1 Timothy 3:1-7, 10; Titus 1:7) No, he would not. Hence, he would not qualify for congregation privileges. When a Dedicated Christian Sins Jehovah understands that we are weak and that even after baptism we may fall into sin. The apostle John wrote to Christians of his day: "I am writing you these things that you may not commit a sin. And yet, if anyone does commit a sin, we have a helper with the Father, Jesus Christ, a righteous one. And he is a propitiatory sacrifice for our sins, yet not for ours only but also for the whole world's." (1 John 2:1, 2) Yes, on the basis of Jesus' sacrifice, Jehovah will forgive baptized Christians who fall into sin—if they truly repent and abandon their wrong course. An example of this was seen in the first-century congregation at Corinth. The apostle Paul heard of a case of incestuous fornication in that young congregation, and he gave instructions that the man involved be disfellowshipped. Later, the sinner repented, and Paul exhorted the congregation to reinstate him. (1 Corinthians 5:1, 13; 2 Corinthians 2:5-9) Thus, by the healing power of Jehovah's loving kindness and the great value of Jesus' ransom sacrifice, the man was cleansed of his sin. Similar things may happen today. Again, though, even if a baptized person who commits a serious sin repents and is forgiven in Jehovah's eyes, there may still be ongoing consequences of his sin.—Proverbs 10:16, 17; Galatians 6:7. For example, if a dedicated girl commits fornication, she may bitterly regret her act and eventually be restored to spiritual health with the help of the congregation. But what if she is pregnant because of her immorality? Then her whole life has been inescapably changed by what she did. A man who commits adultery may repent and not be disfellowshipped. But his innocent mate has Scriptural grounds to divorce him, and she may choose to do so. (Matthew 19:9) If she does, the man, although forgiven by Jehovah, will live the rest of his life with this grave consequence of his sin.—1 John 1:9. What of a man who unlovingly divorces his wife in order to marry another woman? Perhaps he will eventually repent and be reinstated in the congregation. Over the years he may make progress and "press on to maturity." (Hebrews 6:1) But as long as his first wife lives without a mate, he will not qualify to serve in a responsible position in the congregation. He is not "a husband of one wife" because he had no Scriptural right to divorce his first wife.—1 Timothy 3:2, 12. Are these not powerful reasons why a Christian should cultivate an abhorrence of what is wicked? What of a Child Molester? What if a baptized adult Christian sexually molests a child? Is the sinner so wicked that Jehovah will never forgive him? Not necessarily so. Jesus said that 'blasphemy against the holy spirit' was unforgivable. And Paul said that there is no sacrifice for sins left for one who practices sin willfully despite knowing the truth. (Luke 12:10; Hebrews 10:26, 27) But nowhere does the Bible say that an adult Christian who sexually abuses a child—whether incestuously or otherwise—cannot be forgiven. Indeed, his sins can be washed clean if he repents sincerely from the heart and turns his conduct around. However, he may still have to struggle with the wrong fleshly impulses he cultivated. (Ephesians 1:7) And there may be consequences that he cannot avoid. Depending on the law of the land where he lives, the molester may well have to serve a prison term or face other sanctions from the State. The congregation will not protect him from this. Moreover, the man has revealed a serious weakness that henceforth will have to be taken into account. If he seems to be repentant, he will be encouraged to make spiritual progress, share in the field service, even have parts in the Theocratic Ministry School and nonteaching parts in the Service Meeting. This does not mean, though, that he will qualify to serve in a position of responsibility in the congregation. What are the Scriptural reasons for this? For one thing, an elder must be "self-controlled." (Titus 1:8) True, none of us have perfect self-control. (Romans 7:21-25) But a dedicated adult Christian who falls into the sin of child sexual abuse reveals an unnatural fleshly weakness. Experience has shown that such an adult may well molest other children. True, not every child molester repeats the sin, but many do. And the congregation cannot read hearts to tell who is and who is not liable to molest children again. (Jeremiah 17:9) Hence, Paul's counsel to Timothy applies with special force in the case of baptized adults who have molested children: "Never lay your hands hastily upon any man; neither be a sharer in the sins of others." (1 Timothy 5:22) For the protection of our children, a man known to have been a child molester does not qualify for a responsible position in the congregation. Moreover, he cannot be a pioneer or serve in any other special, full-time service.—Compare the principle at Exodus 21:28, 29. Some may ask, 'Have not some committed other types of sin and apparently repented, only to repeat their sin later?' Yes, that has happened, but there are other factors to consider. If, for example, an individual makes immoral advances to another adult, the adult should be able to resist his or her advances. Children are much easier to deceive, confuse, or terrorize. The Bible speaks of a child's lack of wisdom. (Proverbs 22:15; 1 Corinthians 13:11) Jesus used children as an example of humble innocence. (Matthew 18:4; Luke 18:16, 17) The innocence of a child includes a complete lack of experience. Most children are open, eager to please, and thus vulnerable to abuse by a scheming adult whom they know and trust. Therefore, the congregation has a responsibility before Jehovah to protect its children. Well-trained children learn to obey and honor their parents, the elders, and other adults. (Ephesians 6:1, 2; 1 Timothy 5:1, 2; Hebrews 13:7) It would be a shocking perversion if one of these authority figures were to misuse that child's innocent trust so as to seduce or force him or her to submit to sexual acts. Those who have been sexually molested in this way often struggle for years to overcome the resulting emotional trauma. Hence, a child molester is subject to severe congregational discipline and restrictions. It is not his status as an authority figure that should be of concern but, rather, the unblemished purity of the congregation.—1 Corinthians 5:6; 2 Peter 3:14. If a child molester sincerely repents, he will recognize the wisdom of applying Bible principles. If he truly learns to abhor what is wicked, he will despise what he did and struggle to avoid repeating his sin. (Proverbs 8:13; Romans 12:9) Further, he will surely thank Jehovah for the greatness of His love, as a result of which a repentant sinner, such as he is, can still worship our holy God and hope to be among "the upright" who will reside on earth forever.—Proverbs 2:21. * See "Questions From Readers" in the May 1, 1996, issue of The Watchtower. Appeared in The Watchtower January 1, 1997 Home | Beliefs | Future | Medical | Topics | Contact Us | Publications | Languages | Search | Index Copyright © 2002 Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania. All rights reserved.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
11:05:04
Comments
I wonder what kind of a "donation" the Watchtower made to Dr. Stark? (One who gained accurate knowledge)

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
11:24:16
Comments
Hey Everybody I did not know that this site was a Watchtower Tract and Bible Site! COOL!!!

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
12:44:29
Comments
I wish those folks would start reading their Bibles and stop repeating the errors of the past. Doesn't anybody at the WTS read their Bible anymore? After years involved in construction there is one thing I have learned for sure. In order for the final measurement to be true you have to have a solid reliable Bench mark for the starting point. If all the measurements are pulled from that bench mark they will be as accurate as possible. But if you measure each new line from the previous mark then the chances of error increase with every mark. The same is true of the WTS. They rely on previous articles of the magazines as starting points to clarify a new point. They fail to return to the original Bench Mark, the Bible, for the clarification. So that being said. Go to your interlinear translation. Check out 1 Corinthians 5:9,11 and 2 Thessalonians 3:14 notice it is the same Greek verb at both places. So the "marked" individual and the not so nice person guilty of serious sins were both to not be associated with. But what did that mean. Well the Greeks had two verbs for association. One for associating with people in general and one for associating with close personal friends and family. What Paul was saying was "stop being so buddy buddy with these brothers until they get their act together." Put a little distance between them and you. But don't treat them as total outcasts. Jesus said that if you just could not reason with a brother and get him to see his error then treat him as a tax collector or a man of the nations. Was Jesus recommending that his disciples follow the example of the Pharisees? How did Jesus treat tax collectors and people of the nations? what about Leviticus 24:22 and Deuteronomy 10: 18,19? How did the Law say that the alien resident was to be treated? Yes, they did not invite them over for tea, but they did not turn their noses up to them either. It infuriates me that some unscrupulous person has the audacity to publish the erroneous bilge from the WTS. trying to get people to shun perfectly decent people such as Bill Bowen. If they spent a couple of hours actually reading this site they could see how wrong they are. Enough bitching I have to get back to work. Love Y'all, Loris

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
12:58:37
Comments
In spite of the irritations caused by the above misguided posting of WT articles, I find myself stumped by a question. Were these posted by someone supporting the society, or by someone showing them for who they are? I forced myself to read them and was continually struck by the cornerstone of the WTBTS' slight of hand: the erasure of the line between commitment to God and obedience to the Society. It is horrifying that someone could read that blitz of scripture snippets and Society rules and feel the urge to obey. So sad... - Buster

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:08:44
Comments
Mr Bowen By your "crusade" are you implying that the whole organization of Jehovah's witnesses is corrupt? Do you now believe that the basic teachings of the witnesses is wrong? ( ie. Trinity, immortality of the soul, hellfire etc.) The nation of Israel had those among them who sacrificed their children to Molech but did that make the Israelites fall from Jehovah's favor? Any sane person knows that abusing children is unacceptable and I think, Mr Bowen, that you know, that the witnesses will come through this to be stronger - as has been proved many times in the past - when serious tests came upon them. The witnesses know that the closer they get to Armageddon the more Satan will try to keep sheep-like ones form entering the "flock". Be careful Mr bowen that maybe Satan is using you to help in this regard! (Remember Judas!)

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:16:55
Comments
RE: Let Us ABHOR What Is Wicked ... This is a paragraph from the COURT DECISION the Society didn't include in the Watchtower Article on Disfellowshipping ... 883 [7] We find the practice of shunning not to constitute a sufficient threat to the peace, safety, or morality of the community as to warrant state intervention. The test for upholding a direct burden on religious practices is as stringent as any imposed under our Constitution. Only in extreme and unusual cases has the imposition of a direct burden on religion been upheld. See, e.g., Reynolds v. United States, 98 U.S. (8 Otto) 145, 25 L.Ed. 244 (1878) (polygamy); ... Does Disfellowshipping *Whistleblowers* constitute a threat to the peace, safety, or morality of the community? ... I bet we are going to find out! ... Also are you aware that 1 Corinthians Chapter 5 ...Has been used for centuries to persecute dissenters and was used to justify the INQUISITION? QUOTE: . . .Like Israel, medieval Europe was a society of Christian kingdoms that were formally consecrated to the Lord Jesus Christ. It is therefore quite understandable that these Catholics would read their Bibles and conclude that for the good of their Christian society they, like the Israelites before them, "must purge the evil from the midst of you" (Deut. 13:5, 17:7, 12). Paul repeats this principle in 1 Corinthians 5:13... These same texts were interpreted similarly by the first Protestants, who also tried to root out and punish those they regarded as heretics. Luther and Calvin both endorsed the right of the state to protect society by purging false religion. In fact, Calvin not only banished from Geneva those who did not share his views, he permitted and in some cases ordered others to be executed for "heresy" (e.g. Jacques Gouet, tortured and beheaded in 1547; and Michael Servetus, burned at the stake in 1553). In England and Ireland, Reformers engaged in their own ruthless inquisitions and executions. Conservative estimates indicate that thousands of English and Irish Catholics were put to death—many by being hanged, drawn, and quartered—for practicing the Catholic faith and refusing to become Protestant.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:46:34
Comments
To whoever wrote: "Watchtower will burn out like a cheap walmart light bulb" - :-) LOLOL! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:46:56
Comments
WELCOME VALERIE! Let us know when your book is done! Have you ever thought to take your abuser to court? What area are you in? Reporters in Australia and Florida are seeking victims to interview, along with the Brooklyn Police Department, and others. Merely FYI. Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:47:20
Comments
Hi PENNY! Glad to hear you are doing great and keeping busy! See ya soon! Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:47:36
Comments
Hey Jesika! Great letter to Dr. Phil! Hope he calls you! Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:47:58
Comments
Thanks to whoever posted the sample letter to Univ. of Washington re: Stark! I'll put that letter to good use! Thanks again for writing it out! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:48:49
Comments
Thanks to whoever posted the WTS DIRTY 'MAFIA' TACTICS re: Alvin Hansen! That is mind-boggling and Disgusting! Where can we get more info? How current is that info? Do you have a URL to where that info came from? I tried to find it at Watchtower Observer but could not find it. Thanks/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
13:53:55
Comments
Hi Claudine! Re: that German porn site... the site I was referring to was definitely NOT that prior porn site. I visited the German one, www.silentlambs.biz, which someone posted in this Guestbook a few days back, and it has Bill's appeal letter and books on child abuse, and some of the other WT letters,etc., just the wording is in German. It also has a lot of other information from this very site, just translated for the German friends. --- That porn site I never visited, and I think just maybe it really did exist. There is a thread about it at the J-W.com forum, but that thread is now locked, so that would lead me to belie same one as the www.silentlambs.biz one. --- How's things going with you? Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002

Time:
13:55:38
Comments
Correction to my above post, near the end of it: "...so that would lead me to believe it really DID exist, but it is NOT the same one as the www.silentlambs.biz one." --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
14:15:45
Comments
The info about the Court Decision on Shunning and the comments therein... Just from reading that it is obvious MEN DOMINATE MEN TO THEIR OWN INJURY, and MEN, including the JWs and the WTS specifically, need to STOP JUDGING LESS THEY THEMSELVES BE JUDGED and thrown into the lake of fire, etc. It is obvious from that post and historical references therein, that men and their religions who try to persecute and judge others as to their beliefs are TRYING TO BECOME GOD HIMSELF! It belongs ONLY TO GOD to decide to do the JUDGING, shunning, disfellowshipping, murdering, etc. MEN/Catholics/protestants/JWs, etc. all need to BACK OFF from their JUDGING & CONDEMNING of others or they will have to suffer the consequences of Putting Themselves In The Seat of God. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
14:16:48
Comments
Someone wrote: "...closer they get to Armageddon the more Satan will try to keep sheep-like ones form entering the "flock". Be careful Mr bowen that maybe Satan is using you to help in this regard! (Remember Judas!)" --- Dear Visitor: I believe it is the OTHER WAY AROUND. It is the harsh, UNreasonable, BLINDED actions of the WTBTS that is bringing persecution UPON THEMSELVES because of their OWN wicked actions. It is the WTBTS themselves which are binding up heavy loads onto their brethren and not allowing their flocks to "enter into the kingdom," just like the Pharisees. They will not only be judged harshly by God for this, but destroyed altogether as being a False ProFIT. How much studying have YOU YOURSELF DONE regarding Watchtower HISTORY? There is SO MUCH they do NOT WANT YOU TO KNOW. Get online and start reading, lest you be judged guilty by God by association with them. --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
14:17:07
Comments
Buster wrote: "I ... was continually struck by the cornerstone of the WTBTS' slight of hand: the erasure of the line between commitment to God and obedience to the Society." --- Yes, Buster, agree agree! They for decades have been increasing the pressure more and more for ALLEGIANCE TO THE SOCIETY itself, their biggest "desperate" sin of all was perverting the baptism vows in 1985 -- FOR LEGALISTIC REASONS ONLY --- i.e., to COVER THEIR A**, so that in all subsequent years they can merely DF anyone who questions anything THE SOCIETY does. It's pretty darn ugly when you look into it. --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
14:17:30
Comments
LORIS! BRILLIANT!!!! /SLC --- Loris wrote: "I wish those folks would start reading their Bibles and stop repeating the errors of the past. Doesn't anybody at the WTS read their Bible anymore? After years involved in construction there is one thing I have learned for sure. In order for the final measurement to be true you have to have a solid reliable Bench mark for the starting point. If all the measurements are pulled from that bench mark they will be as accurate as possible. But if you measure each new line from the previous mark then the chances of error increase with every mark. The same is true of the WTS. They rely on previous articles of the magazines as starting points to clarify a new point. They fail to return to the original Bench Mark, the Bible, for the clarification."

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
15:39:24
Comments
To the post: "closer they get to Armageddon the more Satan will try to keep sheep-like one for entering the "flock". Why do you sound like a page ripped out of the Watchtower magazine complete with threats, innuendo and arrogance. I believe it's time for you to get back to the bible that presents a much more balanced Christianity. You may be surprised at what you will find in its pages. (The Good news of the bible is that Christ died for our sins. The Good news of the Jehovah's Witness is that the world is so bad).

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
15:44:01
Comments
Hi all. bjc here. The following information is taken from a book called "THE REPORT". It is a book about Jehovah's Witnesses and how they fulfill bible prophecy today, and in the future, will fulfill it in an astonishing way. It was written by a JW who exited the organization over a decade ago because he saw the unsuspecting flock of JWs slowly being made into real enemies with God by way of wicked WTS' teachings and overall leadership. He maintains the JW flock would not see this until it was almost too late, having by that time greatly damaged their spiritual relationship with God, almost irreparably. He predicted the WTS would take JWs as a nation, to the absolute brink of total destruction! *** Before leaving, this JW began to notice the JWs beginning to drift closer and closer into outright worship of the WTS at Brooklyn Headquarters. He noticed the JWs profile as a collective people amazingly matching more and more as time went on, the bible's prophetic description of renegade "Israel" of ancient times. He noticed an uncanny resemblance to the Pharisee-led Israel of Jesus' day, that Jesus so condemned. *** The reason I am posting this information is because the subject matter in the book though written years ago, fits right in with present day issues by concerned Jehovah's Witnesses. Topics like the ones we are currently discussing today, about the WTS placing themselves in "God's Seat" and making themselves little "gods" before Jehovah and Jesus. I've included a snippet for your perusal. After reading this portion, I'm sure you will agree with me that this information does fit JWs and their increasingly "WORSHIPFUL" relationship with the wicked WTS perfectly, even though the material was written years ago. --- bjc2read@yahoo.com *** Quote from "The Report" pages 155-168 --- "...Remember the point in the previously mentioned Watchtower article on "loyalty." Or, is the Society above God's law? Does the Society command the loyalty that rightfully belongs to Jehovah God for themselves? Brothers, what will we do when the Society makes this "astonishing" compromise of integrity to Jehovah by `placing the beast in the holy place?' (See Matthew 24:15; also Daniel 8:13 New World Translation Reference Bible footnote for Hebrew word translated "desolation" [Sho-mem].) Yes, what will you do? Will you remain faithful at such a time? Really the leading members of the Watch Tower Society are much like the Pharisees and religious leaders of Jesus' day. Oh, they appear so righteous to the brotherhood, on the outside. But let's notice Jesus' analysis of them: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of plunder and immoderateness . . . Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you resemble whitewashed graves, which outwardly indeed appear beautiful but inside are full of dead men's bones and of every sort of uncleanness. In that way you also, outwardly indeed, appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." — Matthew 23:25-28. *** A SEPARATION DUE TO COME FOR JEHOVAH'S'S WITNESSES *** But again, where else does the Bible indicate that there is going to be a severe test of the "loyalty" of God's people, in these last days? And where does the Bible indicate that many true Christians will separate from the main body of so-called Christians in these last days? Let's notice the words of Zechariah 13:8,9 which says: "And it must occur in all the land, is the utterance of Jehovah, [that] two parts in it are what will be cut off [and] expire; and as for the third [part], it will be left remaining in it. And I shall certainly bring the third [part] through the fire; and I shall actually refine them as in the refining of silver, and examine them as in the examining of gold. It, for its part, will call upon my name, and I, for my part, will answer it. I will say, `It is my people,' and it, in its turn, will say, `Jehovah is my God.'" Also again, let's notice the following words recorded at Isaiah 2:6 which says: "For you [faithful Jehovah's Witnesses] have forsaken your people [apostate two-thirds who have received "the mark of the beast"], the house of Jacob. For they have become full of what is from the East, and they are practicers of magic like the Philistines, and with the children of foreigners they abound." *** Yes, Jehovah's people "Jacob," will have to "forsake" `his own people,' the wicked two-thirds majority of Jehovah' Witnesses who willingly submit to "worship of the beast" and the "dragon." The footnote on the words: "with the children of foreigners they abound" in the New World Translation Reference Bible says: "they shake hands, or have close association." *** Yes, the Watch Tower Society, representing all Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide, will have "close association" with the political, pagan leaders of this world. — See footnote New World Translation Reference Bible Isaiah 2:6; also 1 Corinthians 15:33. *** And how does the Bible describe the events leading up to this great "apostasy" or falling away? Well, as we have just read at Daniel 11:32, the "king of the North" will "lead them into apostasy" or persuade them by means of "smooth words." The Bible indicates that after entering an initial agreement with the "King of the North," for 3 1/2 years, this particular political figure, will go back on his word and attack the Watch Tower Society and Jehovah's Witnesses, worldwide. He will use his influence to turn the political United Nations Organization against them. And it will be under this pressurized situation, where much physical persecution will be heaped upon Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide. The "Woman" will now be "chased away," into the "wilderness" for 3 1/2 years or "1,260 days." It will be under these conditions, coupled with the skillful use of "smooth words" by the "King of the North," that the Watch Tower Society will compromise! They will now give their full support to the political governments of the world, just like all the other religious entities of our day. — See Jeremiah 30:17; Revelation 12:6, 13, 14. *** Daniel chapter 9, verse 27, drawn from the NIV Translation, describes the critical events leading up to the "hour of test" this way: "He [King of the North] will enter a firm covenant [initial agreement] with the many (Jehovah's Witnesses) for one week (7 years total); and at the half of the week (3 1/2 years into this period) he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease (interrupt their worship; compromise of Watch Tower Society; 42 months of persecution, abuse.)" — See Isaiah 43:28. *** Yes, the "king of the North" or "small horn" of Daniel 7th & 8th chapters will be responsible for turning the seven-headed beast, against Jehovah's Name people and will subsequently "cause gift offering and sacrifice to cease." Yes, and for the remainder of the "week," "Jerusalem will be trampled upon by the nations," for "42 months" just as Jesus predicted. (Luke 21:24; Revelation 11:2, 13:5-7) And this action will send all Jehovah's Witnesses world-wide, who refuse to follow in this "worship of Satan," reeling to the "wilderness" to `get away from the face of the Dragon.' (Revelation 12:6, 13,14) And what will the disillusioned Jehovah's Witnesses do, while in the "wilderness," during this 3 1/2 year period? Hosea 3:4 puts it this way: "It is because for many days (3 1/2 years) the sons of Israel (separated Jehovah's Witnesses from main body of apostates, the "woman in the wilderness") will dwell (3 1/2 years) without a king and without a prince and without a sacrifice and without a pillar and without an ephod and teraphim." *** But you may be saying: "It is very hard to believe that the leading members of the Watch Tower Society will actually capitulate, compromise, and sell out completely to the governmental "powers that be," so late in this time of the end...so close to Armageddon." Well, believe it or not, this will not be the first instance of the leaders of this organization directing the brotherhood away from Jehovah. No, it is not. Let's take a few very noticeable examples of compromise already going on today. *** EXAMPLES OF COMPROMISE AMONG JEHOVAH'S'S WITNESSES EVEN NOW *** On the question of obedience, are you more concerned with pleasing the Watch Tower Society than Jehovah God? Does the Society command your loyalty and obedience? Even our attitude can betray a lack of loyalty to Jehovah God. Yes, even our attitude and personal viewpoints. Perhaps, you have heard brothers make statements such as these: "I would rather be wrong with the Society than be right by myself." Or, how about this one: "It doesn't matter what the Society decides to do...Jehovah doesn't hold us responsible for what the Society does...if they should do something wrong, or maybe make a wrong decision, Jehovah will discipline them, not us. Jehovah is not going to discipline us for something the Society does." *** Have you heard individual witnesses make such statements? Have you? Well, even though many individuals have made such statements, in actuality, these views are erroneous, scripturally speaking. Let's examine the first statement. *** There is always virtue in standing for "right," no matter that the individual has to stand "alone". And, under no circumstances would a Christian "rather be wrong," or `want to be wrong' with anyone, including the Watch Tower Society. No, he does not. The plain fact of the matter is this: if you are standing for "right," then you are never alone! No, because Jehovah God and His loyal Son, Jesus are standing right beside you. Yes, because they always stand for "right." *** And how about the second attitude expressed above concerning the question of bearing responsibility for wrong decisions or actions? For example, how about Jesus' statement at Matthew 13:14: "Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit." *** Yes, if the `blind lead the blind,' then "both" will fall into the pit. There is no escaping it. If the Watch Tower Society is leading the Jehovah's Witnesses in a wrong path, then `both will fall into the pit.' Remember, leadership always affects the followers, for good or bad. Take for example Adam and Eve. Certainly, their example has had disastrous effects upon us, their offspring, even though we had nothing to do with their original sin in the Garden of Eden. And how about the ten unfaithful spies who were sent to spy out the promise land. Did not their `bad report' and faithless example have a detrimental effect upon the whole nation? Yes, their example and counsel caused the whole nation to wander in the wilderness for 40 years! — Numbers 13:25 thru 14:39 *** Then, take the example of David and Bathsheba. Again, not only did David suffer because of his adulterous affair with the death of the offspring of this union, but his whole family suffered with constant turmoil and disunity with rebellions from Absalom, Adonijah, and the raping of his daughter, Tamar. Clearly, others are affected by the actions of their respective leaders, whether in the family arrangement or on a national level. — 2 Samuel chapter 11; 2 Samuel chapter 15; 1 Kings chapter 1; 2 Samuel 13. *** In addition to expressing wrong attitudes that betray a lack of "loyalty," we, as Jehovah's servants, might be surprised to know that we may have ALREADY COMPROMISED our loyalty and obedience to Jehovah in another very subtle way. For instance, to maintain complete obedience to themselves from Jehovah's Witnesses, the Governing Body gives constant reminders that one cannot receive salvation without the Society's guidance and direction, by way of its publications and its "special" representatives. Is that what the Bible teaches? Further, we have noticed that the brotherhood has been taught to look at the Watch Tower Society's word as being the same as God's Word. Maybe, you have noticed this yourself in your dealings with Jehovah's Witnesses. However, would you say that this is appropriate? Well, to answer that question, let's take a close look at an ancient example in Ahithophel, David's trusted advisor. *** Ahithophel's personal advice and counsel were considered so accurate, his words so wise, that David and others began to formulate an unrealistic viewpoint concerning him. According to Smith's Bible Dictionary under the heading of "Solomon" page 292, "Ahithophel was renown throughout all of Israel for [his] worldly wisdom and political sagacity." *** The Bible itself confirms the truthfulness of the foregoing statement at 2 Samuel 16:23 by saying: "And the counsel of Ahithophel, with which he counseled in those days, was just as when a man would inquire of the word of the [true] God. That was the way ALL the counsel of Ahithophel was both to David and to Absalom." *** As we know, this man became unfaithful by counseling treason and murder against David. When Jehovah foiled his plot by making Hushai's counsel appear better, he committed suicide. Yes, he was disloyal in the end, much to the chagrin of Absalom and his followers, and to the dismay of David, who viewed him as a close and trusted friend. (2 Samuel 17:23) This man was a prototype of the infamous Judas Iscariot, the traitor. — Psalms 41:9; John 13:18 *** But what we want to remember about this situation is this: David and others had a distorted view of Ahithophel's counsel! Do we not see a problem here? Take another look at the scripture. Yes, Ahithophel's word was viewed "just as when a man would inquire of the word of the [true] God." It did not say his "word" was the "word of the [true] God" neither did it say that he was a "seer" or a "man of the [true] God" like Samuel, Moses, Elijah and other prophets who strictly delivered Jehovah's messages to the people. No, but he was simply David's advisor and counselor. David and others, unwittingly, attributed an unwarranted status to "his word." And so, it was David and the people who were at fault, because it was they who attributed such weight to this man's words. And it certainly, in the end, gave rise to serious problems as we have seen. Yes, "his word" was placed on the level with God's Word! It was "his word" and not God's Word that received such attention from the people. *** But you may say, "what has this got to do with the Watch Tower Society and it's leaders?" Well, is it any different today? Is not the Society's WORD viewed this way by the brothers in general? It is viewed as equal, tantamount to, or the same as God's Word, the Bible. Let us examine a few examples of this. *** WATCHTOWER SOCIETY'S WORD VIEWED AS GOD'S WORD? *** The WT Society says when Public Speakers are announced from the platform of the Kingdom Halls of Jehovah's Witnesses to give Bible lectures, (particularly Circuit and District Overseers during their visits, as well as those who have Assembly program assignments) they are to be announced as "Representatives of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society." Do you see anything wrong with that? Should not it be "Representatives of Jehovah God?" Is this not a subtle compromise of your loyalty and exclusive devotion to Jehovah God? Think about it. *** The WT Society says (in the April, 1991, Our Kingdom Ministry under the article "Start and Conclude Meetings on Time") this disturbing yet revealing statement: " . . . Public speakers should adhere to the timing indicated on the Society's outline and not include in the talk extraneous matters, such as greetings." *** Greetings are considered by the WT Society as "extraneous" matters? How unloving! Why, if you will check, you will find that just about every book in the Christian Greek Scriptures addressed to a congregation contained warm "greetings" from the writer of the letter (and his companions or penman/secretary) to the congregation. — See Romans 16:22; 1 Corinthians 16:21. *** The WT Society asks (in the same Our Kingdom Ministry insert, pg. 3) the following question: "What can we do to draw closer to the Organization?" Draw closer to the Organization? How can a living, breathing human "draw closer" to an impersonal organization? To the contrary, at James 4:8 it says: "Draw close to GOD, and He will draw close to you." Does not that make more sense? Think about it. *** The WT Society asks (according to the February 1991 Our Kingdom Ministry under the article "Fulfilling Our Kingdom Ministry as Jehovah's Witnesses") this subtle question: "Do you know what OUR official view is on advanced education, autopsies, killing in self-defense, or public welfare assistance?" Did they say: "Our official view?" Shouldn't it be what God's official view or what the Bible's official viewpoint is on these important matters? Can we not see from these and numerous other examples that the Society has set itself up as an ICON of worship? They are taking the credit, even worship, that should go ONLY to Jehovah God. (Exodus 20:3; Isaiah 42:8) And the Jehovah's Witnesses are, unwittingly, giving this adulation to this ICON of worship! *** Perhaps someone at this point would say: "The word `worship' used in "THE REPORT" is a bit too strong a word to use in describing the misguided loyalty Jehovah's Witnesses express toward the WT Society. It is very difficult to see how faithful, conscientious, devoted publishers of long-standing activity could be unwittingly lured into worshipping the ORGANIZATION itself over Jehovah God." Let us examine an even more serious situation, to see just how far the Watch Tower Society has gone in courting the "loyalty" of all Christians who are called by God's Name. *** NEW BAPTISMAL QUESTIONS CHALLENGES CHRISTIAN'S LOYALTY TO GOD *** The Watch Tower Society has, in the 17-year tenure of the Governing Body, made drastic and irreverent encroachments upon Jehovah God's position as Supreme Sovereign in the Christian congregation. The Society has misused and abused their authority, and have, as it were, "placed their threshold with Jehovah's threshold and their doorpost beside Jehovah's doorpost." They have, by their actions, asserted equal status with Jehovah in His own "temple" arrangement! (See Ezekiel 43:8; 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4) And this, of course, has escaped the notice of millions of trusting individuals in the congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide. One notable example of how this has been done is their subtle changes in the questions for baptismal candidates since the year of 1985. To really see the difference, let's notice the questions for baptism before that year. They are as follows: *** 1) Have you recognized yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus? 2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God's Word as his Holy Spirit makes it plain? (See Watchtower 1970 pg. 309 par. 20.) *** Now compare these questions with the new ones propounded to baptismal candidates since the year of 1985. The new questions are as follows: 1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will? 2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit- directed organization? (See Watchtower June 1, 1985 pg. 30 par. 3,4.) *** Do you notice anything different? "Why, yes!" you say. In the first instance, the emphasis is placed on the individual being a sinner in need of salvation from Jehovah God. Next, the individual acknowledges Jesus' role in this salvation as ransomer of mankind. Secondly, the individual responds to the thought that he has dedicated his life to Jehovah God. The individual understands that God's will is revealed through His Word under the direction of Holy Spirit and therefore have the final say in the person's life, always. This is what the individual agrees to before Jehovah, forevermore. Did you make such an agreement? The questions are certainly proper and serve to remind all of us of our grave responsibility to be completely loyal to him! *** However, the new set of questions highlight something different. Yes, the individual is told to recognize the fact that he is a sinner in need of repentance, but it does not say that his salvation comes from Jehovah! That is left hanging in the air. The individual is left to possibly ponder that his salvation may come from Jehovah, but may also come from some additional source such as the "spirit-directed organization." This is not clearly stated in the first question! And, as you can see, the second question directly ties together the person's dedication and his identification with the association known as Jehovah's Witnesses, yes the "spirit-directed organization." Could the individual be, perhaps, dedicated jointly to Jehovah and the `spirit-directed' organization? The implications are serious! You be the judge of that! *** Clearly, the Watch Tower Society is totally out of bounds in their presumptuous words and actions. After all, what's the point of changing the questions in the first place? The original questions were appropriate, entirely proper! What was their purpose in changing them? Better yet, what was their real motive in changing the original baptismal questions! There must be one of grave significance. It has been reported that the Society changed these questions for legal reasons, in case the individual decides to leave the organization and does not wish to be subjected to public branding and treatment as a "disfellowshipped" person. (See "THE REPORT" chapter 6 Administering Discipline Scripturally.) This new terminology will now help them in the courts, if it comes to that. However, no matter what the reason, these changes have struck to the heart of the question: "Where is Your loyalty" — to God or to Man? *** CONTRAST IN VIEWPOINT CONCERNING BAPTISM AND DEDICATION *** In view of the above change in position by the Society, let us take note of this comment taken from a Watchtower article written in 1955. It states: "A Christian, therefore, cannot be baptized in the name of the one actually doing the immersing or in the name of any man, nor in the name of any organization, but in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy spirit." *** Did we notice that the person is not to be baptized "in the name of any organization?" Yes, that would include the organization known as the Jehovah's Witnesses, wouldn't it? (See July 1, 1955 pg. 411 par. 15) Let's take note of another enlightening comment taken from a 1966 Watchtower magazine. It states: "Jehovah is the giver of life. `For with you is the source of life.' (Ps. 36:9) We cannot keep everlasting life in view without staying close to Jehovah, the source of life...This is what we mean when we dedicate our lives to Jehovah. We do not dedicate ourselves to a religion, nor to a man, nor to an organization. No, we dedicate ourselves to the Supreme Sovereign of the Universe, our Creator, Jehovah God himself. This makes dedication a very personal relationship between us and Jehovah. For this reason, all dedicated ones are not only privileged but obligated to draw near to Jehovah in prayer. James 4:8 tells us: `Draw close to God, and he will draw close to you.'" The questions for those paragraphs read this way: "What principles must we keep clearly in mind in our relationship to Jehovah? What should we know about dedication? What necessary thing will help us to stay close to Jehovah, keeping him always before us?" (October 1, 1966 pgs. 603, 604 par. 14, 15). Therefore, it is clear that the Watch Tower Society has certainly changed their position in this matter of dedication and baptism. Again, what is the reason given for this change? Notice the following. *** SIMPLIFICATION OF QUESTIONS? *** The WT Society says they changed the baptismal questions to SIMPLIFY matters. This comment was made by the Society in the April 15, 1987 Watchtower magazine pg. 12 par. 11. It states: "By baptism you identify yourself as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's worldwide congregation. Baptism validates a solemn agreement made with God." The footnote at the bottom of the page makes this point: "Recently the two questions addressed to baptismal candidates were simplified so that candidates could answer with full comprehension of what is involved in coming into an intimate relationship with God AND HIS EARTHLY ORGANIZATION." But again, did they say: "intimate relationship with his earthly organization?" How can a living breathing person have an "intimate relationship" with a corporation or organization? Further, we see that the Watch Tower Society has tried to explain away or justify the changes made in the baptismal questions by saying that they are simplifying matters. But we ask, "what could be more simplified than the original questions?" The individual has dedicated his life to Jehovah God only, and not to an organization! That's not complicated. However, it is much more complicated to tell a person that his `dedication to Jehovah God identifies him with a spirit-directed organization,' wouldn't you say? Which is least complicated? Judge for yourself. Also, did Jesus instruct his disciples to baptize in the name of a "spirit-directed organization?" Did he? Or, did he simply state to baptize them in the name of the "Father, Son and the Holy Spirit?" Think about it. — Matthew 28:19,20 *** WHERE THE REAL PROBLEM EXISTS *** Could this be just another example of their "lawless" acts to steal veneration, even "worship," from Jehovah himself. (See Ezekiel 37:23 also footnote.) Please consider: Just as the Watch Tower Society originally said in the October 1, 1966 Watchtower magazine, (pgs. 603, 604 par. 14, 15) a person's dedication is the most sacred and important step an individual can take in establishing a spiritual relationship with Jehovah God. This is something that is "very personal." Yes, the Intimate Group can certainly agree with the Watch Tower Society on this fact. And yet, here we see the Watch Tower Society themselves, less than 20 years later, for whatever reasons, uninvitedly stepping in and placing themselves in the relationship between God and man — somehow making themselves a conditional part of the agreement or covenant between the individual and his Creator. What an overt act of arrogance! *** Is it any wonder the "man of lawlessness," the "son of destruction," will receive just as his forerunner and prototype Judas Iscariot received, everlasting destruction, death in Gehenna! (compare John 17:12 with 2 Thessalonians 2:3) Their methods are unscrupulous and unsavory to say the least! They have brazenly stepped up, up so high as to rival even Jehovah himself — just like a certain angel we know all too well. (Isaiah 14:12-14) Yes, they act as a "god" right in Jehovah's temple desiring to be worshipped! *** But at this point you must be thinking: "What?...the `man of lawlessness?'...I thought the "man of lawlessness" was the clergy of Christendom?" Well, believe it or not, the "man of lawlessness" is not the clergy of Christendom, as the Watch Tower Society has said. But, to get more details, let's consider the following information to see if we can unlock the true meaning of one of the most baffling "mysteries" [mysterions] or "religion secrets" of our time. — 2 Thessalonians 2:3,4." --- "The REPORT" (1994) pages 155-168. *** bjc2read@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
16:13:46
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Don't let them scare you Bill and others. The people responsible for policy would like to do nothing more than BUSINESS AS USUAL. There biggest concern is HOW DOES THE ORGANIZATION LOOK TO THE WORLD. Do we look like the happiest, most together people on the earth like we have stated in the Watchtower magazine before? Are we a model of what joining the organization does for producing SUPER CHRISTIANS. I think that a little humility would be the missing ingredient in this recipe.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
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16:34:37
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*** A call to arms my friends, the dreaded day has come for us all who love freedom. The attack to the public is about to begin with a song, not with airplanes crashing raining bodies upon us, but our own compatriots who will deceive us and give us to those dogs waiting to feed upon our carcasses. The very day we all thought would come has come through our back door with glory and praise. Welcomed by those who stability at any cost, they are willing to accept slavery and shackles... Yes, shackles. That is what our future will be if we do not prepare now. The Office of Home Security shall tag us and see our every thought and all done in defense of our glorious nation. The silent majority is no longer quiet: they sing, waive the flag and are willing to give their son's to death. We who love the Constitution know our freedom is hanging in the balance. *** Safety with more laws, or risk to maintain our liberty: the decision to resist is now or those damnable creatures of Islam will have won. We are told to be tolerant of these people while these vile animals come to us for help only to use our freedom against us. They should be vanquished and cast asunder in our nation. We the people must not let them impose fear into our hearts, the good fight is still available and out there. These devils can be easily spotted and dealt with from now on; but our freedom must come first, not to loose focus. Our government has known about the problem of this horrid race of people and let their actions ride on the carousal of world attention. We the people need to gather for ourselves, supplies and prepare to resist. *** The Senate has declared an emergency for monitoring all suspected terrorist: who would that be? The man screaming for justice, the person accused of not conforming to the majorities request, or someone out of anger screams profanity to the Cops. *** All of us now are targets, just as the KGB monitored their own so shall The Office of Home Security will do to us. We all know there is no such thing as temporary just from the example of our recent history like the IRS that is still functioning and Welfare still handing checks to the foreigners. *** Remember those accused of being anti-American who sided with the militia or the man writing letters of protest to speak his mind? We are all under scrutiny and must prepare for a home invasion from the masked police coming through our door late at night. This is our real future and now is the time to speak up or lose the fight before it starts. *** As I have written before our government has waived the steak of prosperity too often and too long to those starving dogs out there, the foreigners have been exploited by the greedy corporations from the United States and our armies are to police the world, Say No to it all. *** The Muslim religion condones the deaths of the innocent, don't be mislead, we know the truth, even their wicked Muhammad excepted a beheaded skull of a non-believer as a gift and this is written in the Koran. *** A book written by Stansfield Turner; Terrorism and Democracy makes the point of terror to our country in one simple sentence' “We should set our sights high in hope that the burden of terrorism we are presently carrying will be a blessing in disguise by helping usher in a new era of world cooperation that will reach well beyond the suppression of terrorism itself.”__ The idea of a New World Order is now in the making, it's clay feet mixed with iron shall stand tall and rule the world supposedly with one unified government. *** Is it possible the CIA was involved? Could it be true those terrorist didn't have the education or technology to fund such and operation? What is curious it took an attack for the United Stated to have NATO and all western allies shout with one voice, could it be trickery at the expense of six thousand lives to bring about this New World Order? We have a lot of questioning to do before we give ourselves to nationalism or United Nations.Can it be true the reason why the Jehovah's Witness organization wants humble sheep is that they want compliance then join in the New World Order? How better to than to start as a religion to have people being trained to obey and not question anything. we have much to think about, this is only the beginning...afraid in Sacramento

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
16:58:33
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IT IS NOT A SOCIETY WEBSITE, HOWEVER IF YOU ARE GOING TO TAKE ISSUE WITH EVERYTHING WE SAY OR DO, YOU CAN EXPECT SOMEONE TO COMMENT.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
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17:05:27
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ON THE ISSUE OF MATT 5:10. IT IS NOT ONLY TO BE APPLIED TO THE 144,000. THE 144,000 WOULD BE JOINT RULERS WITH CHRIST IN THIS "KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS". THE EARTHLY CLASS WOULD RESIDE HERE ON EARTH, AFTER ALL, YOU CAN'T HAVE RULERS WITHOUT SOMEONE TO RULE OVER. AGAIN, A LITTLE REASONING ABILITY WOULD HELP. ON YOUR OTHER COMMENT ABOUT USING ONLY 6.5% OF THE SCRIPTURES, WHILE IT IS TRUE THAT WE USE SOME SCRIPTURES MORE FREQUENTLY THAN OTHERS, IF WE DID NOT USE THEM ALL WE WOULD MOST DEFINITELY CONFLICT IN OUR INTERPRETATION OF THEM. AS FAR AS THE USE OF BIBLE AIDS, WHILE THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT SAY TO "CHECK THE WATCHTOWER", THEY ALSO DO NOT SAY TO CHECK THE DICTIONARY FOR THE MEANINGS OF WORDS, OF CONSULT WITH TRANSLATORS SO THAT EVERYONE CAN READ IT. I'LL SAY IT AGAIN, REASONING ABILITY, COMMON SENSE. FUZZ "

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
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17:06:56
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Dear Lambs, I ache so terribly for all of you who have endured sexual abuse as a child. We can be certain that Jehovah does NOT condone this behavior or approve the conduct of the Elders who protect the molest- ers. Think of the priest Eli. He was not involved in sinful conduct, but his sons were. Eli took no action, turned a blind eye, and eventually paid for his apathetic attitude with his broken neck. My story is a little different than most of yours. I was not sexually abused as a child, but I left a husband, an Elder, who was emotionally and physically abusive. I even took eyewitnesses to the Elders who had seen acts of abuse. None of us were believed. We were all told to keep our mouths shut or charges would be made against us. I moved away from my congregation because I had to seek a safe place for my children and I to live away from my husband. Two and a half months after I left, a marking talk was given against me because I had not followed the Elder's counsel to return to my husband. Three months later ANOTHER marking talk was given against me for "disrupting the peace in the congregation." Anytime I tried to defend my actions or explain why my children and I left, that was considered "disrupting the peace in the congregation". Anytime my husband spoke, he received hugs, pats on the back and tears of sympathy. The whole story would turn your stomach. It involves many letters being sent to Patterson. One which includes 3 letters from eyewitnesses that prove the Presiding Overseer committed slander against me. I told the P.O. that I HAD been abused, he told MANY publishers that I said there was NO abuse. This P.O. is still in good standing, even giving a talk at the District Convention last month. I think the issue of wife abuse, especially if you are married to an Elder, is mishandled just as badly as children's sexual abuse cases. Do any of you have similar stories? E-mail me at Lilacs4everr@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
17:40:20
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FUZZ: I couldn't help but notice that you employ a plea for reason in the same post where you expound on the treatment of the 144,000. You are so indoctrinated that you have long ago forgotten to notice the ludicrousness of the 144,000 JW tenet. Have you ever read the Revelation chapters that refer to 144,000? Have you ever taken the time to question, without the bias of a WTBTS book, the literalness of that number? In those chapters, of the most figurative book in the bible, you will find reference after reference that all reasonable people must accept as figurative. That is of course unless you intend to hold as literal that they are of a paraphrased list of tribes of Judah, that they have a mark on their foreheads, that they are all virgins ... you know, all that other stuff. In fact, as far as I can tell, the only piece in there that is to be taken literally is the actual number - 144,000. And that makes sense to you. And you are the one calling for reason. If the Society hadn't already based so much of its dogma on that interpretation, then it would have faced a 'new understanding' long ago, and probably several times. But they did base much on the early interpretation and they have to stand by it - reason be damned. How about you? - Buster

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:00:04
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Hi bjc2read@yahoo.com. That was something else! Thanks for posting that info from "The REPORT" (1994) pages 155-168. Yes, it was long, but well worth the read. Especially nice was how the author, being a JW himself, could write exactly in the language and tone that we can relate to. --- I've never heard anyone mention that book before, nor have I seen it among the XJW books online. Who is the author? Where did you get it? Has it been updated by the author since 1994? --- I agree 100% what it says about the WTS prostituting itself to the governments (UN scandal), and setting itself up as "mediator between God and Man" rather than Jesus. (Same thing the Catholic Church does, except they use MARY as the "mediatrix" between God and Man.) And I've heard this has all taken place since the formation of The Governing Body, which I think occurred around 1980? Funny, but that's the year I got baptized, and didn't even realize these underhanded things were going on. It wasn't until the latter years of the '80's when their repeated use of, and unrelenting pressure on us, about "THE ORGANIZATION" that began to make my gut ache/feel uncomfortable, but I would put it out of my mind, thinking it was my fault for feeling that way. (Gut Instinct being suppressed again!) I remember feeling that way especially when studying the Revelation book in the book study in the late '80s. --- And even though I was still an active JW in the '80s, it went right over my head about the perversion of the baptismal vows until I read about it within the past six months. Second to the scandal of all the Silent Lambs, the change in baptismal vows upset me the most, even more so than the UN scandal. --- BTW, bjc2, are you a poster at J-W.com forum? I'd like to put this info from "The Report" there to see what others have to say/have their heard of it, etc. Thanks again! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:00:26
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CHUCKLE & GRIN to the person who wrote: "I think that a little humility would be the missing ingredient in this recipe." -- Agree 100%. If the WTBTS would just admit their errors and say, "We're sorry. We're human and we screwed up. Will you all forgive us?" I think we all would sure give it a shot. But No! They buckle down harder and keep punishing innocent people. Sickening to say the least. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:01:13
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Hi again bjc2 or anyone: In "THE REPORT" it said, "The WT Society asks (according to the February 1991 Our Kingdom Ministry under the article "Fulfilling Our Kingdom Ministry as Jehovah's Witnesses") this subtle question: "Do you know what OUR official view is on advanced education, autopsies, killing in self-defense, or public welfare assistance?" --- I'd like to know from ANYONE who KNOWS, what do they mean here about public welfare assistance? Did they tell the JWs they could not accept help from the government or what? --- Have they EVER said anything about being on Social Security Disability? I would double-dare them to condemn JWs or anybody for that!!! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:03:44
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Dear "afraid in Sacramento": My very first thought on the morning of 9/11 when I saw the news was, "Is this REALLY what it APPEARS to be?" That entire morning I could not shake the feeling that there was MUCH MORE to this than what meets the eye... In other words, I also thought that it might be the ploy of the "powers that be" who want to bring the USA to its knees to make room for the NWO. I had read before the 9-11 "terrorist attack" how Bush had refused for months to pay the USA's delinquent dues to the UN because he was against the whole idea of the NWO, and the UN is FOR the NWO; so what better way to make the USA buckle-under to the desires of the NWO than to attack them directly? And since Revelation shows that the 7th world power would disappear, this gave me more reason for thinking 9-11 was not just an attack by some crazy people, but by some "bigger power" that wants to obliterate the USA entirely so the NWO can take over (via the European Union, is my guess, from other things I've heard). I definitely believe in the "conspiracy" theories... you should like someone who posts on Channel C? Are you the same? ;) Especially your comment about JWs/humble sheep/compliance/trained to obey, etc... I have read about this "theory" at Channel C, i.e., The Watchtower being an "experiment" by the Illuminati (or whoever)... Either you read the same threads or you are one of the conspiracy fans, eh? ;) --- Also, as far as all of us "being tagged" by the Office of Home Security, whether it be ID cards or implanted microchips into our hands or foreheads... I think it "has" to come due to the scripture in Revelation... --- Thanks for your comments. Definite food for thought. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:04:20
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BTW, who does the WTS say currently in their literature is the "King of the North"? Do they still say Russia? Curious/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:07:56
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TRIBUTE TO BARBARA ANDERSON from "Amnesian" at J-W.com -- http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33431&site=3 -- Topic: And Here's To You, MRS. ANDERSON... Jul 30, 2002 17:28

"...Jesus loves you more than you will know...whoa, whoa, whoa..." --- Mrs. Barbara Anderson, that is. --- While I wholeheartedly join in with the backslapping and thundering applause being accorded the relentless and selfless efforts of Bill Bowen and his Silentlambs lobby and other men of integrity and conscience --- some still, some no longer, associated with the "Christian" Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses --- in exposing the vileness and hypocrisy of certain of the WTS's policies, I am moved to hoist a separate and personal tribute to a woman who has turned out to have more integrity and character and courage and conviction than most people with whom I've ever been acquainted and, more on point, than virtually any of the generally good and decent JWs I ever knew in my 30 year association --- male or female, regardless his "rank" or his/her JW "pedigree." --- Unless you've ever been "Sister" Somebody-Anybody-Nobody with a fully-engaged intellect and robust self-image among JWs, you can have little approximating a sympathetic comprehension --- no matter how substantial your attempt or sincere your motivation --- of the stifling, enervating misery that is/was her existence in her futile efforts to accept and measure up to Jehovah's seemingly inexplicable standards for women in the congregation which, first and most critical, is to "stay in your place" and to "display the quiet and mild spirit" of the godly woman in humble and respectful submission to "those taking the lead." --- Read: Stfu. --- If the bright, self-confident JW woman finds that she has succumbed to the sin of allowing place in her mind for one of those irrepressible independent thoughts, her only option --- should she fail in prayerful attempt to cleanse her mind of the offending notion (even if said notion is little more than alerting Brother Shrubbery-for-Brains directing the field service group that he's reading the territory map upside down or Brother GED Graduate cum Book Study reader, after the 50th mispronunciation in a 25 word paragraph, that Jehovah is likely not the "Solvent of the Universe" - ) --- is to fashion the meekest and most non-threatening question to one of "those raking the leaves taking the lead." His response would almost invariably come in some flavor of the "never-mind-your-pretty-little-head-just-leave-important-matters-requiring-heavy-lifting (read: thinking)-to-those-appointed-by-holy-spirit." --- Read: Kinder, gentler stfu. --- Imagine, then, what eye-popping, jaw-dropping, teeth-rattling, bone-chilling lack of submission Barbara Anderson displays in the eyes of the average JW man or woman when she swells her physical little bit to her imposing moral stature and dares to let out a roar and shake her fist at the all-powerful, rigidly-hierarchical, dominating and abusive caste system that is the WT patriarchy. --- "Please Jehovah, safeguard your loyal ones throughout your holy mountain in the day of your burning anger!" --- Not only did she not mistakenly (or self-servingly) believe this to be a matter about which she must "wait on Jehovah" to right things, astonishingly, she gave herself over to the empowering epiphany to which very few JWs ever dare: that it was Jehovah who was waiting on her. --- Imagine that. --- "...if one knows how to do what is right and yet does not do it, it is a sin for him," --- James 4:17, NWT --- After spending years personally and confidentially appealing to individual GB members to recognize and change the WTS's grossly immoral and criminal pedophile protection policy (tm), she would not allow their refusal to do so to let her conscience off the hook. Eschewing her near-lifetime of WT domination and subjugation and indoctrination regarding the woman's "proper" role within the Christian congregation, she would not relinquish her moral responsibility with "You've done all Jehovah expects you to do, good and faithful slave; you must now wait on him." As none of the many, many men --- Bethel and congregation elders --- who had long known of the wicked, self-serving molestation [accusation] policy(ies) being dictated from atop "Mount Zion" itself had apparently answered when Jehovah "called" to them (for you with faith in such, of course), Barb concluded: If not her, who? If not now, when? --- ["Lord], here I am! Send me, [a woman]." --- Isaiah 6:8 --- Arguably Jehovah has one helluvan ironic sense of humor. --- At which point she took a deep breath and set her mind to her "assignment." And, as a result of her faithfulness, among her other rewards was the discovery that there are, lo and behold, others like her, willing to speak truth to power --- whatever its cost. --- So, this tribute is to take absolutely nothing from you, Bill, or any of you precious few other courageous and good men, but, for Barb to do what she has done, well, only Sister Somebody-Anybody-Nobody can truly appreciate the sentiment: --- "God bless you, please, Mrs. Anderson...heaven holds a place for those who pray..., hey hey, hey..." --- AMNESIAN

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:39:46
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TO: Lilacs4everr@yahoo.com -- Abused Wives are welcome here to!!! Thanks for sharing your story, and so sorry to hear that, with witnesses backing you up, the GB in Patterson, your PO and "friends" in your cong still turned their back on you. This is soooooo sickening that this happens again and again. The oft repeated phrase, "Old Boys' Club" obviously is NOT an exaggeration. I thought the "official" WTS stance on spousal abuse had changed in latter years to allow for a wife to exit her husband if she was in danger. So how can they treat you this way? Sounds like you should contact that attorney mentioned in the above post... maybe he can help. The pertinent portion of that post read: "ABVA TRUST is calling for victims of the Watchtower practices of defamation by threats and disfellowshipping, who may have suffered similar violence and family breakup to make response to this paper or Mr. [Attorney Melvin E.] Soll at 64 Liberto Lane, Dover, Delaware 19901, as ABVA TRUST is executing Judgment against the Watchtower, et al, to seize its corporate assets and file incompetent charges against its office and directors for their evil and criminal practices in hopes of putting an end to their persecutions for profit. Please reply in confidence in person or through your attorney with documentation." -- All the best/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:40:06
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To "FUZZ" who wrote: "...WHILE THE SCRIPTURES DO NOT SAY TO "CHECK THE WATCHTOWER", THEY ALSO DO NOT SAY TO CHECK THE DICTIONARY FOR THE MEANINGS OF WORDS, OF CONSULT WITH TRANSLATORS SO THAT EVERYONE CAN READ IT." --- Hey Brother Fuzz: Didn't you hear at the recent Convention (or was it at the Service Meeting) that according to the society JWs are NOT supposed to look up the ROOT MEANING of Bible words anymore (Greek and Hebrew meanings of words)? Your teachers NO LONGER want you to STUDY DEEPLY! --- And as far as the 144,000, contrary to GB theology, the 144,000/little flock who go to heaven are the FLESHLY JEWS (apostles, etc.) who believed in Jesus back in the first century; and the other sheep/great crowd are ALL THE GENTILES SINCE THEN who have believed! Try that one on for size! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
18:45:57
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HEY FUZZ IF YOU HIT THE LITTLE BUTTON ON THE LEFT SIDE OF YOUR KEYBOARD THAT IS CALLED CAPS LOCK, (CLICK) something wonderful will happen! You will get lower case letters like these ones. And people will not think that you are a looney bin yelling with your keyboard.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
19:14:36
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Hey Fuzz: My religious leaders told me to take the 12 tribes of Israel literally, but I must take the 144,000 as figurative. Here is the formula they gave me: 1x4x4+0+0+0=16 See, it is that easy! Only 16 people are going to rule! That is one person each from 8 tribes and 2 from each of the remaining four! Now don't be unreasonable.

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
19:14:53
Comments
Hi everyone, bjc here. Hot News! *** As you've probably heard, WT Bethel is going send home some 1,000 workers from Bethel very soon. They've asked for volunteers to leave. This was announced at Bethel recently, and confirmed by other reliable sources. *** But were you aware that also recently in the news, the WTS informed the press that they are EXPANDING Patterson facility by some 25%? (Of course the brotherhood has not been notified. That comes later, as always.) *** They've announced that they are sending home 1,000 bethel workers, but haven't announced that the G.B. is planning on expanding the Patterson facility by some 25%! Isn't that amazingly wicked and deceitful? Does not this seem like a gross misappropriation of funds in their care? *** --- Here is the news article --- Jehovah's Witnesses seek to expand campus in Patterson By MICHAEL RISINIT THE JOURNAL NEWS (Original publication: , 20) PATTERSON The hilltop complex off Route 22 in Patterson that is part of the global headquarters for about 6 million Jehovah's Witnesses is running out of room, and the religious group wants to enlarge its complex. The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, the legal name of the parent organization of the Witnesses, has proposed adding about 172,800 square feet more of office and living space to its campus. The facility is used as a training center for hundreds of administrators from around the world. It also houses the graphic arts headquarters of the organization's Bible-education materials. "It's kind of an orderly growth we've experienced," said Richard Eldred, spokesman for the Jehovah's Witnesses facility. "We anticipate increasing needs as the years go by." Watchtower representatives will be before the Patterson Zoning Board of Appeals tonight for a public hearing. Patterson Town Planner Richard Williams said the group "needs to do a couple of things" to move ahead with its proposal. The Witnesses have to amend their special permit as it pertains to parking. Watchtower is also seeking relief from the town's height ordinance for one of its proposed buildings. The zoning board meeting starts at 7:30 p.m. in Patterson Town Hall, Routes 311 and 164. The proposed five new buildings would represent about a 25 percent increase in the facility's size, which was completed in 1995. Eldred said the new construction would take about two or three years to complete and would accommodate the group's needs for at least 10 years. Plans filed with the Patterson Planning Department show two new residence buildings, one three stories and the other five; a new four-story office building, a maintenance building and a three-story addition to the complex's audio-visual studio on the group's 362 acres. The tallest proposed structure is 79 feet, 30 feet taller than local zoning codes permit. The proposal is expected also to come under review from the town's Planning Board, Williams said. Watchtower bought the land, a former dairy farm, along both sides of Route 22 in 1984 and began construction of the missionary training complex in 1989. The 28-building complex includes school facilities, offices and residences to accommodate about 1,200 people. Active in almost every country in the world, the group has about 1.05 million members in the United States. --- end of news article --- *** news linked here : http://www.thejournalnews.com/newsroom/011602/16watchtower.html *** Additional link below of JW "online" discussion board of this new terrifically hypocritical situation hidden from the brotherhood in general. http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33485&site=3 *** bjc2read@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
19:58:07
Comments
Hi SLC: --- You asked whether JW.com Discussion forum has heard about the book called "THE REPORT"? Why yes they have...AND THEY HATE IT!!! (smile) To be sure, it is completely loathsome to most there. But that's to be expected since really, JW.com is NOT a pro-JW Discussion board. It is truly ANTI-JWs, when you really get down to it. Their only mission is to turn as many JWs as possible against WTS as possible. And in their fervor to do this, they wish to destroy every single belief or possible notion that JWs occupy any space or significance with God, prophetically speaking. In other words, JWs just ain't in the Bible ... period! I know. Because every time I post over at JW.com, and speak in any way POSITIVELY about Jehovah's Witnesses, guess what...I get the "cold shoulder" treatment. At jw.com, they have a very, very large community of ex-jws. And these ex-jws that frequent JW.com, it seems have a special hatred for the message of "The Report", as it shows JWs are going to be "restored" to God's favor, apart from the WTS, as the nation of "Israel". That irks many over there. Although I have talked with a "quiet" few there, that have some misgivings about always attacking anything that is pro-JW. But by and large, most it seems down the book (The Report) at JW.com as their biggest contention is its author believes the Jehovah's Witnesses are God's People, God's Name People--fulfilling Bible prophecy. Put nicely, this thought is, shall we say, repugnant, and tooooo grandiose for the "taste" of the frequenters of that discussion board. So I wouldn't advise posting anything about "The Report" over there...Really. If you say anything at all about "The Report", you will certainly, most assuredly BE ATTACKED almost by everyone present over at JW.com., INCLUDING the administrator of the board. In short, nobody likes "The Report" at JW.com. So save your breath. (smile) I know, since I've posted there for close to 2 years now, along with the author of the book himself. *** Of course, as you know, this discussion area at silent lambs is totally pro-JWs, and lot more receptive to the ideas of "THE REPORT" about JWs fulfilling Bible prophecy as mystery "Israel". This is a pro-JW web site...I lot different place from JW.com...thank heavens!!! *** Concerning the UN/GB Scandal, here is more information from "THE REPORT" pages 205-212 on the September 8th, 1991 Awake article written by WTS. *** "... Even now, leanings in this very direction are very clear for us to see if we compare a recent article dealing with the United Nations as a peace-making entity and previous ones on the same subject. Let's examine these together. A CHANGE IN VIEWPOINT CONCERNING THE UNITED NATIONS As we know, it has been said many times in the Watchtower Society's publications that the theme of the entire Bible is God's kingdom. That was the theme of Jesus' ministry and is claimed to be the theme of Jehovah's Witnesses' ministry and message under the direction of the Watchtower Society. However, an article in the September 8, 1991 Awake! never pointed to that kingdom in any form or fashion. That particular article never even mentioned God's Kingdom or any scripture of the Bible to present Jehovah's viewpoint on this disgusting and misleading organization! This was a very unusual article published by the Watchtower Society indeed. Did you notice this while reading the article yourself? Instead of taking their previous stand of staunch resistance against the U.N., they insinuated to over 11 million readers, most of whom are not Jehovah's Witnesses, that the political organization may be able to bring about their accomplished goal of peace. You may be saying: "How did the article do that?" It was by skillful and adroit use of such noncommittal statements as: "If this could be done, then the UN's voice of jurisdiction could authoritatively denounce any nation threatening the peace of the world." Individuals reading this may get the idea that the U.N. is within reach of bringing about this `peace for the world.' In commenting on the Persian Gulf Crisis and the U.N.'s use of force to gain world-peace, the article had this to say: "Perhaps you are wondering, `Was the UN's role in the Persian Gulf crisis a start in this direction?' It could be." It is clear that this article made no attempt to clarify to the reader the difference between the false peace that man may be able to temporarily bring and the true peace that the Bible speaks about, which as we know, will come only through the "Prince of Peace," Jesus Christ. (Isaiah 9:6) Nevertheless, someone will say: "The Watchtower Society in the past, has written numerous articles stating these very same points. In fact, the Watchtower magazine over the years has become a hated publication because of taking a firm and adamant stand against the U.N. and it's predictions for the future. They don't have to spell out every detail of the Bible's position on the U.N. each time they write an article on the subject, do they? Everybody knows where the Society stands, right?" THE TRUMPET BLAST One might illustrate the problem this way: In war situations, most armies have battle formation cadences and alarm signals set up to alert the troops at any time of the approach of the enemy. Even, the nation of Israel had such a signal to keep the people on the alert and give critical direction in case of attack or formation for battle. How was it done? It was done by the sounding of a horn C yes, a trumpet blast, an instrument known to be loud and clear! (See Numbers 10:3-9; 31:6) Notice this comment from the Watchtower magazine itself on this timely subject to make the critical point. "The Aaronic priests alone were authorized to sound the sacred trumpets. The notes they blew must be clear and understandable so that the people might know what was required of them. The apostle Paul wrote: `For truly, if the trumpet sounds an indistinct call, who will get ready for battle? In the same way also, unless you through the tongue utter speech easily understood, how will it be known what is being spoken? You will, in fact, be speaking into the air.' (1 Corinthians 14:8,9)" The article then makes the vital point as it continues: "There is responsibility, therefore, for Christ's underpriests [anointed upon earth] today to sound out a clear-cut, easily understandable message from God's Word to all peoples, one that is couched in the language of today, that will stand out from the false and blatant and biased messages of human organizations. FEARLESSLY, and using this journal in a signal manner, as they have done for over eighty-five years, the underpriests of Christ Jesus are sounding forth a clear message from God's Word for this day in which we live ... Not to be overlooked is the fact that this same `trumpet' message sounds the call to warfare against Jehovah's enemies." C See Watchtower 1968 page 374 par. 12,13. Well, could we say, as mentioned in the article, that they are `fearlessly using this journal?' That is questionable, wouldn't you say? Also, did you notice the comment: "The trumpet message sounds the call to warfare against Jehovah's enemies?" And who could be a greater "enemy" of God's people than the "beastly" political organization known as the United Nations which according to Revelation chapter 13 will be "worshipped" along with the "Dragon" in these "last days?" Could there be a greater "enemy" than this shortly-to-be persecutor of God's people? Think about it. And just as the article pointed out, there is real danger in sounding an "indistinct call" to the troops! There is danger in just "speaking into the air" and thus jeopardizing the lives of unsuspecting millions who depend upon such "trumpet blasts." Therefore, we ask the all-important question: Did the presumed modern-day "Aaronic underpriests" [Governing Body and Watchtower Society associates] dutifully alert the nation [Jehovah's Witnesses] for spiritual battle against `the enemy,' the United Nations? Did they sound a "clear and understandable" message so that the people might know what is "required of them" before Jehovah? Or, was the thrust of this article obscure, ambiguous, cryptic, yes, `indistinct?' QUESTIONS TO ASK YOURSELF 1) Could the article mislead people who are unfamiliar with Jehovah's Witnesses beliefs giving them the impression that the Witnesses are in favor of the United Nations? 2) Could those who are somewhat familiar with the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses now conclude that Jehovah's Witnesses have a new policy concerning the United Nations organization and are now in favor of such? 3) And worse, could the Jehovah's Witnesses themselves get the message that it's time to take a new approach to the message of the `enemy?' Yes, `let's soften 'em up a little bit,' then the people will listen better.' These are questions that we need to give serious and sober consideration to. Our very lives may depend upon our having the proper perspective of this matter. There is one additional point in this article that has definitely escaped the notice of Jehovah's Witnesses world-wide. They did not recognize on whose shoulders the real responsibility has been placed to "sound this message" about the enemy United Nations Organization. That's right, on that of the Witnesses themselves! Notice this comment from the same article: "Jehovah's Witnesses firmly believe that the United Nations is going to play a major role in world events in the very near future. No doubt these developments will be very exciting. And the results will have a far-reaching impact on your life. We urge you to ask Jehovah's Witnesses in your neighborhood for more details on this matter." Now, why does the reader need to "ask Jehovah's Witnesses" in his "neighborhood for more details?" What if there are no Jehovah's Witnesses in his neighborhood at all? What if the nearest Jehovah's Witness is many miles away? What is the reader to do? There was ample room for the article to provide the all-important "details" concerning Bible prophecy and the U.N., wasn't there? But instead, the writers of the article deferred. Yes, they shucked `their responsibility' as trumpet blowers. They shifted the responsibility to the "Jehovah's Witnesses in your neighborhood." Did you notice that? What treachery! What a cowardly side-stepping of responsibility on the Watchtower Society's part! C Revelation 21:8 PREVIOUS ARTICLES ON THE UNITED NATIONS We will now quote from articles written over the years by the Watchtower Society on this very same subject. Notice the pointedness and direct application of Bible prophecy as it relates to the United Nations Organization. "With `the war of the great day of God the Almighty' impending, why trust in a refuge, such as the U.N., that cannot prove trustworthy? Mankind's only hope for permanent peace is God's heavenly kingdom." C Awake! 2/8/67 pg. 4 "What a disgusting thing in God's sight that religio-political alliance responsible for killing his Son. A similar disgusting conspiracy was to be a feature of Jesus' second presence. It is here now. Today that religio-political world alliance against God's kingdom finds its most powerful expression in the clergy-blessed United Nations. What a disgusting thing this clergy-supported alliance that stands before the attention of the people where God's kingdom should stand!" C Watchtower, 1961 page 630 par. 5 "The scarlet-colored wild beast and its `ten horns' devastate Babylon The Great (including Christendom), but not because they want to glorify Jehovah God or because they have come to love him now that they have turned to hating the religious harlot ... It is because they still fight against God's Messianic kingdom, for they strive to keep their occupancy of earth by their armed might. Yes, the ten-horned scarlet-colored wild beast is still the thing that Babylon the Great hailed as a substitute for God's Messianic kingdom. So those who make up the wild beast opposed those who practice the true Christianity and who preach and faithfully stick to God's Messianic kingdom, in which the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ, serves King under Him." C Watchtower, 1970 pg. 724, 725 par. 21. After reading these articles and the pointed comments made in each, we would have to conclude that the former ones are quite different from the September 8th Awake! article. "AMAZING, ASTONISHING THINGS" But now, back to the September 8, 1991 Awake! magazine article on the United Nations. It also made these comments: "The Bible clearly paints a picture showing that the United Nations will very shortly be given power and authority. The UN will then do some very astonishing things that may well amaze you." "No doubt these developments will be very exciting ... far-reaching." Why that sounds rather promising! Who wouldn't want to see some "amazing" things done in these dismal days and times? Who wouldn't want to see "exciting things," "far-reaching" things, for the lasting good of all mankind during our lifetime! Who wouldn't want to see the U.N. do such things, especially during our lifetime? This message certainly has appeal to the world! As 1 John 4:5 pointedly warns: "They originate with the world; that is why they speak [what proceeds] from the world and the world listens to them." Certainly, if the Watchtower Society continues to use the publications to sound such like messages, the ungodly world will in time start to "listen" to them, also. Think about it. This is a classic case of "selling out" by telling ungodly people just what they want to hear! Yes, man's efforts will result in "peace and security" through his political governmental arrangements and not Jesus Christ, the "Prince of Peace." (Proverbs 23:23) In fact, it might surprise individuals reading this material to know what the stated purpose of this same said magazine, Awake!, is. This message is printed in the inside cover of each and every Awake! magazine. It says of it's purpose: "It [Awake!] probes beneath the surface and points to the meaning behind current events." Now, that's quite a statement! Can we stand before Jehovah and truthfully say that the Society has done just that with the writing of this particular article on the United Nations? Can we truthfully say that? We repeat, nowhere is there one single scripture mentioned in the entire article! No, not one. There is not one solitary mention of God's Kingdom in the whole article! How will the people know from what source real peace will come? Believe it or not, this is the very first article of it's kind on the vital subject of the United Nations Organization. But it will probably not be the last. There is absolutely no excuse for this! Unfaithfulness is quite evident on the part of the Watchtower Society in the publication of this article! But nevertheless, what conclusion have you reached on this article? Yes, what conclusion do you think you should reach concerning this matter? THIS: The September 8, 1991 Awake! article on the United Nations is a miserable and totally untenable display of cowardice! C 2 Timothy 1:7 SOMETHING TO PONDER Ask yourself: Could such a display of cowardice as demonstrated by this article be a promise of what is to come? "What things to come?" you may say. Well, let's notice Daniel 11:32 which says: "And those who are acting wickedly against [the] covenant, he [King of the North] will lead into apostasy by means of smooth words." Though this powerful king of the North has not prevailed upon the Watchtower Society as of yet, could this article give us a small clue of what is to happen when he does arrive on the earthly scene? Does it? Could this be a demonstration of the unhealthy influence that the United Nations Organization has over the fear-struck, Zedekiah-like Watchtower Society? Could the United Nations Organization have already taken some hidden action or made some threatening demands upon the Watchtower Society precipitating this new, softened message? Think about it. FAITHFUL IN SOUNDING THE MESSAGE REGARDLESS When the faithful prophet Isaiah was asked, "Whom shall I send, and who will go for us?" He responded "Here I am! Send me." Further, he was told "Go, and you must say to this people, `HEAR AGAIN AND AGAIN ...'" In other words keep repeating this message and do not stop. That was his commission. (See Isaiah 6:8-9.) And for how long? Notice the answer given in verse 11, "Until the cities actually crash in ruins, to be without an inhabitant, and the houses be without earthling man, and the ground itself is ruined into a desolation." Yes, preach until the very end, without "letup." (Acts 5:42) As mentioned earlier, prostitution or spiritual adultery is definitely involved in the unfaithful leaders of this organization who dwell in Brooklyn Heights, `selling out truth' for ease of life and filthy lucre. (Proverbs 23:23 and James 4:4) And faithful Christians who are still a part of this unfaithful organization of Jehovah's Witnesses must arise from their sleep and come to their senses in order to escape Jehovah's wrath. C Ephesians 5:13,14; 1 Corinthians 15:33,34 Who will be instrumental in coming to the aid of these Christians? This preaching assignment has been given to the "Two-Witnesses" who were prophesied to come in our day and time. But someone at this point might say: "the preaching work is being done already by one, and only one, group of people on the face of the earth; Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization. This is one of the proofs that they are true Christians, that is the door-to-door work." Is that truly the case? Let us examine the following to see if this is a Bible-based claim. *** end of quote *** "THE REPORT" (1994) pages 205-212. *** bjc2read@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
20:34:02
Comments
Hi bg2: Hey Hey, yeah I know all about J-W.com and the mainstay attitude over there. I really hated the place at first, but there are some really funny threads that get started. Also, any late-breaking WTS "news" can be found almost immediately upon its revelation there. Another thing I like about it is it's 24-hour activity. Always something going on and lots to read. Too late, though, about posting The Report info there. I did it before waiting for a reply from you. Oops! Guess I can expect to be "stoned" for doing so. --- There are some dubs who are STILL JWs who post there, albeit incognito. --- Thanks for the add'l info from The Report about the UN. Very interesting to see that it was 9-8-91 for their first "obvious" watering-down in the literature of their prior stance on the UN. And then in 1992 is when they became an NGO, I believe. My oh my, What Perfect Timing!!! -- So what does the author feel about being Out of the Org him/herself? Are the "Two Witnesses" the JWs are to follow going to come out of the Current Org? If so, what good will that do for the DA/DF'd ones? If the author feels the JWs still ARE God's true people, then why doesn't the author get back in? Guess I'm a little confused. Anyway, great reading, all the same! Thanks again! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
20:34:59
Comments
Correction: The above post is to B-J-2-C, not bg. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002
Time:
22:35:56
Comments
http://www.watchtower.org/library/hb/index.htm>...LOVING CARE FOR CHILDREN Of course, === Christians agree with laws or court action to prevent child abuse or neglect. === Perhaps you have read of cases in which some parent brutalized a child or denied it all medical care. === How tragic! Clearly, the State can and should step in to protect a neglected child. Out of the mouths of hypocrites! The more I see the sicker I get! If I am not really mistaken one of the worse type of person to Jesus was a hypocrite!!

Remote User:
Date:
31 Jul 2002

Time:
23:38:18
Comments
A training manual was written on child sexual abuse investigations. The manual was used in training law enforcement officers to study the effectiveness of the training and the manual. A scholarly essay was written to report the results of the training. The theoretical framework of the training was combining the expertise of law enforcement and mental health professionals in a joint interview process. Ten law enforcement officers were trained in the investigation process and tested for recall, recognition, and application. Evaluation of the training was done based on the officers' perceptions of the effectiveness of the training. The results of the evaluation showed that content on dynamics of child sexual abuse could be taught and retained using an eight hour training period. The applicability of the training to investigative interviews could not be taught in the eight hour period. Implications for future training include longer and more intensive training periods which involve practice time, observation, and working as a secondary officer with a trained investigator before the trainee becomes a primary officer for the investigation. Key issues for training include child sexual abuse dynamics, children and suggestibility, the sexual abuse disclosure process, child development issues, the use of non-leading questions, the use of interview aids, fact vs. fantasy, rapport building with children, discussion of private parts, and setting the stage for a spontaneous disclosure. The training was rated by the officers. The format, presentation, manual, and investigative protocol were viewed as most positive. The negative focused on a need for more time in training. The officers rated the training in an overall rating score of 90.7%. Interesting..< http://www.ncjrs.org/policing/chi341.htm>

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