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August 2002 Guestbook

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Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:18:53
Comments

Someone wrote: "If I am not really mistaken one of the worse type of person to Jesus was a hypocrite!" --- Yes, and Jesus didn't need a PR Department to whitewash his dirty laundry either. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:20:04
Comments

Thanks for the child abuse training manual/study investigation. Sounds like it wouldn't take much if the WTS REALLY REALLY wanted its elder to have some "training." But then they don't really care how sloppy they handle things because they'd rather stay in denial and keep it all undercover and behind closed doors. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:21:54
Comments

PRESS RELEASE from Silent Lambs --- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Wed, 31 Jul 2002 22:10:42 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Joe Anderson Disfellowshipped --- 8-1-02, Addition to 7-31-02 PRESS RELEASE --- JOE ANDERSON-DISFELLOWSHIPPED! 7-31-02 Jehovah's Witness child advocate --- WILLIAM H. BOWEN-DISFELLOWSHIPPED! 7-25-02 Jehovah's Witness child advocate --- BARBARA ANDERSON-DISFELLOWSHIPPED! 7-25-02 Jehovah's Witness child advocate WHY ARE THOSE WHO SPEAK OUT FOR CHILDREN BEING DISFELLOWSHIPPED? --- WHY IS JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' GOVERNING BODY ORDERING CHILD ADVOCATES DISFELLOWSHIPPED? --- Joe Anderson-67 of Normandy, TN, husband of Barb Anderson and a faithful Jehovah's Witness for over 50 years, resigned as an elder of over 43 years in protest of Watchtower policy on child abuse in June, 2002. In his letter he humbly requests the church to make needed changes to protect children. On Wednesday July 31 he was disfellowshipped at a judicial hearing, charged with, “causing divisions” because he sent a copy of the letter to fellow elders in his congregation and two members of the Governing Body who were personal friends. While he plans to appeal, Joe comments, “I stood up for children and by the judicial committees actions directed by the Governing Body, they protect those who rape children.” 931-455-6910 --- William H. Bowen, of Calvert City who is founder of the organization "silentlambs," (www.silentlambs.org) a support group for victims of child abuse who were molested as Jehovah's Witnesses, spoke out as a former elder on Dateline and Panorama about how children are being harmed by Watchtower policy. Last Thursday July 25, he was notified that he had been disfellowshipped in a secret hearing. He sent his appeal on Monday. Bowen comments: "The leadership has decided to silence anyone who identifies this problem by destroying families through disfellowshipping. Hundreds of abuse survivors have suffered a similar fate at the hands of these henchmen, this is a public evidence of how Jehovah's Witnesses directed by the Governing Body have created the “pedophile paradise.” 270-527-5350 --- Barbara Anderson, 62 of Normandy TN, was disfellowshipped by an announcement on Thursday July, 25 for speaking out on child abuse. She is a former researcher who worked for the Church's Writing Department, in Brooklyn, New York, she is featured on Dateline speaking out about child molestation cover-ups that go all the way up to the denomination's Governing Body. Anderson, learned Sunday that her appeal was denied, said the church is acting ''so that Jehovah's Witnesses will feel that they are justified to say to others that we are liars.'' 931-455-6910 --- The above individuals represent over 130 years of active service as Jehovah's Witnesses, over 25 years in bethel service, and well over 40 years in full time service. They all three have been disfellowshipped for “causing divisions”, yet not one person has left the faith because of their actions. What was the evidence against them? The committees produced letters written by members of the Service Department along with other elders. Watchtower has just created a new policy, that is, letters can now appear as eye witnesses to disfellowship in face of a denial. Is this really the proper application of Deut. 19:15? Could eye-witnesses in Biblical times just write there accusation on a scroll and that be used as a testimonial basis to stone a person to death? Are victims of abuse with accusations awarded the same autonomy? --- “Let the reader use discernment.”

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:34:08
Comments

Hi SLC, bjc here. --- You wanted know about the "Two Witnesses" (Rev. 11:3) and whether the author of the "Report" wants to get back in the JW organization. *** The author of "The Report" believes there will be two great gatherings of Jehovah's Sheep from the JW Organization, away from the clutches of the Governing Body and WTS. *** THE FIRST GATHERING. *** The "Tents of Judah" will be the first to be gathered from the JW organization. (Zech. 12:7; Malachi 3:16, 17) These are the ones The "Report" shows to be a great number of JWs who have been "killed" or executed (disfellowshipped/disassociated) in the past for the Name of God, as being "martyrs for righteousness" in God's eyes. This would include any JWs who was mistreated by the WTS and excommunicated unfairly, for ANY REASON many years ago. God knows this, and will be the final judge in their cases. Bible prophecy indicates that any of these "executed" ones who still wish to serve God, and has not lost his faith in God completely, will be gathered. The author points to Ezekiel 34:1-21 as his "proof" text, which he believes shows prophetically that it is God's purpose to gather all of his injured or abused sheep, all those who have been treated unfairly and "pushed" out of the fold, to the "outside" of the JW organizational fold, by wicked "shepherds"/elders with "horns", and scattered across the earth to oblivion. This is the FIRST gathering of His sheep. (Ezekiel 34:21) *** Bible prophecy indicates that Jehovah will accomplish this great "gathering" work of his injured sheep, "on a day of clouds and thick gloom". (Ezekiel 34:12) A time of great distress for JWs. The author of "The Report" sees himself to be among those gathered in the first group. Those gathered during that distressful time of "clouds and thick gloom". Therefore, the author does not have any desire to return to the JW Organization, as it exists today. Especially since he believes it is truly lead by the nefarious "man of lawlessness". (Jer. 30:7) "The "REPORT" also speaks of a second gathering of JWs "sheep". *** THE SECOND GATHERING OF JEHOVAH'S SHEEP *** The second group regathered from the JW Organization by God, prophecy indicates will be The "Two Witnesses" who are discussed in Revelation 11th chapter. *** (Volume II of "The Report" covers this information in detail. Volume II of "The REPORT" is unreleased at present, and only exists in manuscript form.) In short, The "Two-Witness" movement represents a "reform movement" within the JW organization that will "wreak havoc" upon the organization in its finality, due to powerful High Officials, who join in the movement, at the behest of Almighty God. Much damage is done by these High Officials for Reform (the Two-Witnesses) although they do not totally destroy it. But the JW organization will never be the same after this public, powerful "break in the brotherhood" by these high officials of the WTS. (Zech. 11:14) This powerful "break in the brotherhood" of JWs, this great division within it, will cause many, many individuals (10s of thousands) who have served for many years faithfully, to voluntarily leave in TOTAL DISGUST of the WTS! Many will be "removed" from their "office" of oversight within the congregational arrangement, before wanting true "reform" for the JW organization. Also many will be forced out, by way of Disfellowshipment or disassociation. (Rev. 12:2-5) Amazingly, included in this number will be powerful JW officials such as Circuit and District Overseers and possibly men of higher rank within Bethel branches worldwide. These powerful men, are hidden power-sources of the "reform" movement even now, but are not commonly known as of yet. These powerful men of influence within the JW Organization will reveal themselves, much to the chagrin of the WTS and G.B. This revealing of themselves, will undoubtedly place the JW Organization under incredible stress. *** Bible prophecy reveals these men (High officials) will become visible opponents of the WTS and Governing Body. Prophecy reveals, the "silent lambs" movement will be one of the primary reasons for this situation, fired by all of the bad press associated with it. (See Ezekiel 36:3, 12-14) *** Then too, the secret 10-year UN Scandal will re-surface too as a primary reason for this open "revolt" against the WTS and the G.B. Outright "idolatry" of the Governing Body and the UN/Scandal will be at the core of this "revolt" against accepted WTS evil practiced. (Ezekiel 43:7-9; 44:7,8) *** Thus, "The Report" speaks of this situation, as the "Two-Witness" Movement, one of "repentance" and reform for JWs. One of "sackcloth" is worn by penitent JWs, where true "repentance" is sought from God. This is the second group that God will gather from the wicked WTS. (See Rev. 11:3) But in the end despite their faithful efforts to lead the rank and file to "repentance", still, Bible prophecy reveals the overwhelming, massive wickedness of the G.B. and WTS will prevail because of the mindless "worshipful" attitude of the majority of JWs, resulting in the tragic removal from the JW organization, of many conscientious and faithful pioneers, ministerial servants, elders, Circuit Overseers, District Overseers, Missionaries, and Bethelites of High rank. These ones will not be able to continue to stomach the rank apostasy shamelessly practiced and espoused so openly by the JW majority. *** After leaving the JW organization, these faithful brothers will be regrouped into a new spiritual nation, for God's glory. Because it was God's will all along for them to leave apostate "Jerusalem" to themselves, for total destruction before God as his "enemy". (Rev. 12:2-5) *** Bible prophecy indicates that what's left of the filthy JW organization, after the faithful leave, will become as an organization, and will be revealed in the end, as infamous "Babylon The Great"! (Rev. 18:2-4) *** Bible prophecy indicates the FIRST GROUP of JWs, who prove to be a little more discerning as keen Bible students than the second group, will make their exodus BEFORE the "Two Witness" Reform Movement brings distress upon the Governing Body. The FIRST GROUP of individuals will leave around the same time the big fight gets underway and gets out in the open for the public to see. Their "birth" is imminent, namely the FIRST GROUP of dissenters. The JW group that Jehovah gathers. (Micah 5:3; Isa. 66:5-9) *** Here is a little information posted by "MDS" (the author of "The Report) back in 2001 on the subject on JW.com. *** "...In the days immediately ahead, Zechariah 12:2,3 shows "Jerusalem" will come under powerful, restraint, "siege" even, by the world at large. Certain "events" have caused this to occur, EVEN BEFORE the "Great War" is concluded...even before. A milder but much needed "righteous indignation" from God for the practice of "sin." But this is NOT ALL that comes upon them, since "sinful" Israel, does not repent...does not see the need for "repentance" before their God, Jehovah. Even though, the "Reformers", the "Sheiks of Judah" and "inhabitants of Jerusalem", the "Two Witnesses" movement of Revelation 11th chapter strongly advocates "repentance", demonstrated and depicted in scripture as wearing "sackcloth" garments...still, no repentance, on the part of "Israel." They ignore this "repentance" message from the "Two Witnesses." For this, mystery "Israel" will indeed, experience many "words of abuse" against them, during this time, from the world at large...all during this time of advocated "repentance" for the nation. -- See Ezekiel 36:12-14; Zechariah 12:2-8; Isaiah 43:28; Revelation 11:3-6 *** However, AFTER the "Great War," mystery "Israel," will be considered, earthwide "enemies" of mankind in general . However, during the 3 1/2 year "witnessing" period of "repentance" by the "Two Witnesses" to the JW Organization, particularly in the last year and a half of it, "Israel" will surely experience stinging, "abusive words" and other, comparatively milder forms of persecution directed at them because of a practice of unforeseen practice "sin" before God. Nevertheless, because of "sin" of leadership, thus the whole nation of "Israel" is guilty and must "answer" to God, according to Leviticus 4:3. The scriptural principle holds true today. -- Please carefully consider Ezekiel 36:12-14." *** Also this comment" posted in the same thread... "...Bible prophecy indicates that a major split or major break in the brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses, resulting in two factions of JWs, divided off from each other, but co-existing within the same worldwide congregational fold at the same time will occur. This division, which already exists, become MORE ACUTE AFTER, the pivotal date of October 7, 2001...the anniversary date of carrying the Name of God upon themselves as a spiritual nation for 70 YEARS! WHY JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES ARE GOD'S PEOPLE, MYSTERY "ISRAEL" OF OUR TIMES October 2001, is the 70th anniversary of the time when all JW congregations worldwide were in position to fully understand what it meant to accept that Name, to carry that Name, Preach that Name, the Name of God, upon themselves. They AGREED before God, Jesus Christ and all of the Heavenly Host, and even earthling man, yes, to carry that Great Name upon themselves -- To carry the weighty responsibility to "Live Up to that Great Name," upon themselves. It was a Covenant Arrangement between God and themselves as a Nation. Numbers 6:27 shows, God's "Blessings" came upon them as a "Covenanted" People before Him...because they agreed to "carry His Name upon themselves. -- See Deut. 26:2; Deut. 28:10; 1 Kings 8:41-43; 2 Chron. 7:14; Daniel 9:19; Jeremiah 25:29; Acts 15:14; Acts 15:17; Romans 2:24; 1 Timothy 6:1; Hebrews 6:10; Revelation 14:1 *** Mystery "Israel," The Answer: Jehovah's Witnesses are mystery "Israel," because primarily, they carry God's Name upon themselves, as a spiritual nation or people. Thus they have been permitted to enter a "Covenant" Relationship with Him, because of this. This could only have happened, unless God allowed it. At present, because of bad leadership, the spiritual nation is "acting wickedly against that Covenant." (Let it be noted, there are other practices and teachings of the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses which also help us to identify them as mystery "Israel" of our day that are NOT mentioned in this treatise.) -- Daniel 11:30 It was indeed, the time when the spiritual nation began to embrace that Great Name before others, yes, preach that accepted identification, that Great Name, unto the world at large. A very, very heavy responsibility indeed...to "declare that Name" to others. -- Deut. 32:3 Psalms 105:1,3; 2 Timothy 2:19 Notice, "In order that the leaders of the world might be duly notified of this proper designation for Jehovah's people this resolution [adopted previously July 26, 1931 at Columbus, Ohio Assembly] and the text of Brother Rutherford's convention address were published in the booklet The Kingdom the Hope of the World...During October of that year [1931, exactly 70 years ago] a campaign was conducted by the congregations to visit every clergyman, politician and big businessman in their territories with this booklet. In just the United States and Canada 132,066 booklets were put out in this way. Within the next few months this booklet reached the homes of five million others in all parts of the earth." -- Jehovah's Witnesses In the Divine Purpose (pub. 1959), page 126, par. 2 October 1931 -- October 2001 ... a 70-year period...of Carrying God's Name...a period of special "Discipline" or instruction from Him...70 Years of Discipline Upon Israel. *** These events spoken of in this writing, are sure to come, based upon Bible prophecy. The "Reformers", make up the "Two Witness" Movement of Revelation 11th chapter, as we see it among JWs as a nation...as they work among them today. Even now, the "Reformers" and the Non-Reformers co-exist together in the JW Organization. We are quite aware that many JWs are not for any form of "reform" at all. They follow the presumed "F&D Slave" implicitly, completely without question. Still, very shortly both groups will be divided by "heated issues"...after October 7, 2001. However, they will continue to co-exist for a time...still staying together for a period of time. But their "division" will become more pronounced, AFTER October of 2001. It will become visible at that time, much more open, as to their "differences." Thus, a visible, major split is foretold in prophecy for the nation of "Israel," Jehovah's Witnesses at that time. The split will become visible...open for the public and all to see, an already existing split...for now about 2 years. *** This VISIBLE split occurs, as Bible prophecy indicates approximately the same time the "King of the North" in the person of the "small horn," surfaces on the earth's scene...when the spiritual "rebels" against God, "act to a completion." This will be a time for special ACTION for the "sheiks of Judah," who are urged on by the "inhabitants of Jerusalem," reformer supporters. The "Sheiks of Judah" will be encouraged by these newfound supporters, the "inhabitants of Jerusalem." It will be during this time, a time of special "blindness" dealt out by Jehovah God upon "Israel's" leaders for the practice of "sin" when the "Sheiks of Judah" wreak havoc upon the JW organization, and the fight, the differences become quite VISIBLE. -- Please carefully consider Zechariah 12:4-6. *** At this time, the "1,260 days" of "witnessing" or "prophesying" on the part of the "Two Witness" Movement, will indeed, be nearing its finish or completion ...with close to 2 years of that particular period of "witnessing" already passed...the "break in the brotherhood" of "Israel," between "Judah" and "Israel", will now be more pronounced, more discernable...all around this Great Anniversary Date of October 7, 2001. God is always on time to carry out His Word. Bible Prophecy brings it all together for us...in perfect blend and perfect harmony. -- Zechariah 11:14; Daniel 8:23; Revelation 11:3; Isaiah 19:2-4; 55:8-11 *** Also, this comment: "... Just as these things start to occur, a small "remnant" from "Israel" (the "Tents of Judah") will begin to see, how lovingly, Jehovah God has provided many, many clues to assist his people during this time of "Great Distress," through Bible Prophecy. This is something we will have to admit, when we see these events occur...Even those who scoff. -- Zechariah 12:7; Amos 3:7; Jeremiah 30:7; 1 John 4:8; Acts 13:40, 41 "Alas! For that day is a great one, so that there is no other like it [the "Great Tribulation" upon "Jacob"], and it is the time of distress for Jacob [or "Israel"]. But he will be saved even out of it." -- Jeremiah 30:7 Yes, mystery Israel "will be saved even out of it," ... this "Great Tribulation" coming upon the spiritual nation, for their many acts of "sin" and "transgression" against God. The God of the "Holy Covenant" that they VIOLATE continually...following the wicked, nefarious "Man of Lawlessness," who is UNREVEALED at the time of this writing before "Israel." -- Revelation 7:14; 2 Thess. 2:3-12. *** bjc *** Link for post: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=11937&site=3 PS: If you would like more information on the book, or would like to receive a copy of "The Report", you can contact the author at: emcpublications@yahoo.com Hope this helps. *** bjc

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
00:55:02
Comments

ANYONE KNOW IF THE ELDERS HAVE HAD THIS KIND OF TRAINING? Implications for future training include longer and more intensive training periods which involve practice time, observation, and working as a secondary officer with a trained investigator before the trainee becomes a primary officer for the investigation. Key issues for training include child sexual abuse dynamics, children and suggestibility, the sexual abuse disclosure process, child development issues, the use of non-leading questions, the use of interview aids, fact vs. fantasy, rapport building with children, discussion of private parts, and setting the stage for a spontaneous disclosure.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
01:01:14
Comments

SLC = it's me bonnielynn, I've been posting and not leaving my name, don't know why, just got so worked up, I got the info about the training on a fed government site. there are a lot of things to go through, I was hoping to find a fed law to help! If we can find that we may be able to get some REAL serious eye openers! love me, bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:01:27
Comments

Request to Jehovah's Witness people: Help me to find (in the bible) the Great Crowd's plan of salvation. The anointed Christians plan is covered quite well. I do not see anything about a plan of salvation for a Great Crowd.

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:33:23
Comments

So sorry, didn't mean to sound like I was yelling, just a little lazy on the keyboard. I will take all of your comments under advisement. FUZZ

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
07:41:58
Comments

Please show me just one scripture that says "come to Jehovah's organization for salvation". Just one scripture!

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:28:33
Comments

> http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numbertwentythree.htm> And what is a pedophile? As sex researchers you might think he or she is a person who is exclusively or to a significant degree sexually attracted to pre-pubertal children. !But as observers of the social and political scene you would have to conclude that a pedophile is a monster who attacks and defiles innocence.!On this definition there can be !no such thing as an innocent or non-practicing pedophile,! though there are in fact saintly individuals who manage heroic life-long feats of restraint – people who, especially if they are elderly bachelors, find themselves rewarded with nothing but constant suspicion. A pedophile thus by definition cannot be an affectionate person, !nor can a child be fond of him once he is unmasked like some alien in a horror movie.! He may for years have seemed to be a pleasant, caring, kind, decent, honorable man, but of course that is all part of his cunning disguise. !And there can be no legitimate private thoughts and private fantasies where such a monster is concerned.! How can the policies insist that the accuser face their MONSTER!SHAME ON THE PEOPLE RUNNING THE ORG! WHY DON'T THEY PUT THIS IN THEIR WATCHTOWER MAG! BLM

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:50:57
Comments

Here are a couple more little email addys that might be of assistance! bonnielynn <President George W. Bush ::: president@whitehouse.gov --- Vice President Richard Cheney ::: vice.president@whitehouse.gov

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
08:56:51
Comments

Hey, since this IS a world wide issue...inquiries@un.org <inquiries@un.org>... If the WT can be a member for 10 years, must not be anything wrong with sending a few hundred emails! BLM

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
09:11:08
Comments

It is a grave injustice and shame that because 6 million people were told by a 'worldly' org. that THEY ARE THE ONLY ONES who HE will save! that these 6 million people actually believe it! How can all of them believe this? Is that not 'judging' everyone else? What about the men who brought down that plane on Sept. 11 and saved a lot of innocent lives, forsaking their own like for others? What about all the people working so hard to try and save ANYONE at the trade center? DOES EVERYONE THINK THAT THE ONLY HEROS THAT DID THIS WERE ALL WITNESSES? What about them, they are going to go to the FATHER and HE going to say 'OH, THANKS FOR THAT BUT YOUR NOT A JEHOVAH WITNESS SO, SO I DO NOT KNOW YOU! I don't think so and if anyone else thinks so then they are the greatest evil, LOVE FOR YOUR NEIGHBOR, LOVE FOR HIM, IS WHAT IS REQUIRED! NOT WHAT WORLDLY ORG YOU ARE A MEMBER OF! AND YES THEY ARE A WORLDLY ORG! BRAGGING ABOUT WHAT THEY ARE BUILDING, BRAGGING ABOUT HOW MANY SLAVES THEY OWN! AND DIS'ING OTHER RELIGIONS FOR DOING EXACTLY WHAT THEY THEMSELVES DO! HOW MUCH MORE WORLDLY CAN AND ORG GET! SHAME ON EVERYONE WHO THINKS THEY ARE BETTER THAN ANOTHER! THAT THINKS A CHILD'S CRY MEANS NOTHING TO THE FATHER! SHAME SHAME SHAME, AND I AM HEARTILY SICK OF NO ONE SEEING THE REAL SHAME IN ALL OF THIS! THEY TEACH THAT WHO EVER PRACTICES EVIL IS NOT OF THE FATHER BECAUSE EVIL AND GOOD DO NOT LIVE TOGETHER! IF IT IS NOT OF THE FATHER IT IS OF SATAN! SO WHO ARE THEY REALLY WORSHIPPING?

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
12:02:13
Comments

Fuzz: You sound just like a Mormon with the 'I'll take it under advisement' comment. You have been called out, by some direct and some humorous posts to defend one the most basic tenets. So lets hear it: 144,000 as a heavenly anointed class going to heaven, while the rest of us either die or watch - defended without quoting a Watchtower article. Go ahead and look it up in Society publications and find a reasonable stream of thought that gets you from the figurative references in Revelation to the 'present understanding' using sound biblical references. I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to it. - Buster

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
12:45:29
Comments

SO WHO ARE THEY WORSHIPPING: I remember back when I was getting my indoctrination in the Franklin,MA cong. We went to the hall with my mother, while my father never got caught up in it. During my teens my father and I rarely discussed the teachings - perhaps because of one exception that I remember particularly well. I don't remember the introduction to the conversation, but he asked me if I 'really believed that only JWs would be saved'. I had my immediate answer ready, 'Of course, only the Witnesses practice according to God's word.' Then asked about his mother - did I think God would destroy people like her? Oh I really shined that day! I can excuse myself a bit for being a dumb 15- or 16-year-old. But I reaffirmed my statement that God would destroy all such people. One more point, his mother, my grandmother to whom I had never gotten close, had died a few years earlier. I didn't know it then, but in retrospect I think he missed her quite a bit. Here comes the part where my JW training saved the day. I told him how fortunate it was that his mother had died. It was fortunate she was dead because she now has the promise of resurrection. I can't believe such thoughts ever were in my head and spilled out of my mouth. I now have a 16-year-old and I would be terribly hurt if she were capable of such cold-heartedness. - Buster

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
14:19:19
Comments

The challenge of thought is to except a belief in Satan or the evilness of human depravity. Are we the evil within or is there an evil of an outside source? This has been asked for centuries, is there viable proof? As far back in human writings there has been written account of gods or angels who come to earth to live. It was suggested by the early Jews that we were influenced by the fallen angels, others like the Greeks said it was the gods who influenced mankind. Is there proof? Lets examine Satan intellectually, without the obtuse thinking of Christians fundamentalism which pollute the heuristics of our minds. An empirical look is needed at researching Satan from an outside influence instead of using the church, because in this way we have sound reasoning and no purpose in recruiting or scaring others into our way of thinking. *** As far as I remember, Satan's opposition to god has been part of my Christian teaching. I've been taught that Satan will take over my mind if I listen to the wrong music , watching bad movies, and using the known vices of man. Everything that was done to someone that was bad or turned out bad, and was considered evil, was because that individual was influenced by a being that was unseen . I heard expressions like he or she was possessed by bad spirits of some form , so this is why they did what they did. Our teachings included stories of fallen angels who temp men into doing what was bad, even if it meant escaping certain environments that were considered wrong, but was right for the individual. These invisible beings present impinged on our world since the era of Genesis, so I was taught. I think Carl Sagan said it best when he wrote; " if we are in the company of aliens or unseen beings why have they not revealed themselves, leaving evidence of there presents or scientific proof for us to study? " *** This question has allot of validity. Why not? Why is it always left to faith of Satan and his cohorts that they do create evil afflictions upon us? We are taught to believe that god has a resistor, and if we are to join a Christian group we are told to renounce our previous way of life that was evil and resist all the devils works. So, if I were from another faith, I must have been evil? *** Visions have been written down about Satan and given the best of stories. Dante's story is the best of visions of hell and his description of Satan himself. Dante described Satan as a" towering beast with three faces with two wings who was trapped in ice; he rebelled against god". Today, it is no different from then, we have all sorts who blame their thoughts on Satan , their actions, and their hallucinations. I can truly say I have not seen a three faced winged creature, and if I have, I probably would be in an institution and not writing this . I believe Elaine Pagels described Satan best in her book The Origins of Satan, "The Christian tradition has been to demonize the opponents; to solidify ones group by placing that either those within their group or outside their groups as apostates or heretics, it does unify those believing in the same beliefs without question... They are to demonize their enemies and vindicate Jesus followers... The figure Satan becomes, among other things, a way of characterizing ones enemies as an embodiment of transcendent forces. " *** I can not say that I seen Satan without feeling some apprehension. I have seen my own organization comment evil that Satan would be proud of. This phenomena still baffles my mind. I wonder if I could get a great following in telling my vision, probably not, it would be better to say it was a reflection of Christ. I might be able tell it was his reflection off a dirty peace of glass and make a profit. I would be within my rights to proclaim I seen a vision or something, or could it be as Scrooge described when he seen his vision: a potato from the morning breakfast, a bad case of heart burn, or gas from yesterdays dinner. I can not say. Should I consider being excised in a church or in my room before my head spins around. Is it like in the 1800's when men seen pink elephants while intoxicated, today people see green men. Nothing has changed. Christian groups are looking for the Antichrist around every corner. Who can we believe, what group is true? Do you believe me or would anyone place blind faith in my vision? I think not , I probably would get the recommendation to see a Psychiatrist or be committed in some state hospital. Yet I find it very humorous that people drive great distances to see an image of Christ in a cloud or off some poorly washed window. Maybe its the arch deceiver that is creating these crying images or apparitions? The Jewish Kabbalah suggest; "We must constantly clarify the mind, so that it be free of the dross of deceptive fantasies, groundless fears, bad habits, and deficiencies". *** Humans have the tendency for great brutality among one another. The inhumane treatment of one another is not new, it has been dated as far back in human history as one can find. We have some of the most heinous acts of genocide and torture man can do to one another listed just in the bible itself. Is this the fault of Satan? During the middle ages cities were built as a defense against evil men and the demons, the dark ages proves that point . Most of all, we must not forget the inquisitions and purges by the Christian church. The very groups representing god and Christ done most of the evil. Are these organizations part of Satan? Who is to say! We have fears that need to be purged or as the Kabbalah suggest we must clarify the mind. Is Satan a fallen angel? Are we being tested by God? The bible says that Satan has now an earthly kingdom. If so, why has it not been seen. Most religions except the fact it is the United Nation or all governmental powers on earth is Satan's realm . Should we fear these governments? If we are a part of some universal power, I think Satan wouldn't fear revealing himself to some lowly creature as we humans. At least someone would have a picture of him other than Dante's Vision. If we are part of a cosmic struggle, and gods forces are battling evil , we have not much of a choice on what to do or if the decisions we make are correct. How can one prove we are in the right religion? One only need to research and find fault with all or most Christian, Islamic, or cult religions. Elaine Pagels says,” Satan as an evil Creature, misleading man, takes on a hidden of little known figure in the early Jewish writings”. She also says, “until the first century, Satan then takes on a more prominent position of an ambitious spirit determined to diabolically destroy mankind. We against them has been set to determine the relation to ones own group”. I find this empirical explanation sound and befitting modern religion. ***It is my observation that Christians and those of their like use evil to justify their misfortune and the unexplained. Phenomena seems to be given a simple explanation that it is from satanic origin and people with different views are influenced by Satan himself because they have opposite views. I think that man, NOT Satan, created more of the evils we now know and understand . If Satan exist, and is tempting mankind there would be some way of exposing his existence instead of the guess' work by Christian fundamentalist who say everything is evil that they don't understand. I Will end with this thought, that I believe in god, and man deserves better; however, I think more evil has been done in the name of Christ and not Satan...afraid in Sacramento

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
14:34:50
Comments

Thank you for having a place were people can go for help and comfort. I was also molested as a child,but I wasn't part of the "organization at the time" Up until the dateline show I was an unbaptized publisher in the west congregation in Corpus Christi,Texas. I'm am out of there organization forever. I got rid of all there books in my house. I am now being persecuted for it. Again, Thank you for your website and may God Bless You. Julie Villagomez My email is Juliej316

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
15:51:33
Comments

Hi Guys: It is me Claudine - I have been extremely depressed, and had the flu here, the computer was broken one day and the car the next and my birthday was yesterday - spent alone. *** I use to find some comfort with the WTS giving me all the answers (this is a big confession here)...I am struggling with not being so sure about anything. When I hear the trinity doctrine the stomach goes into knots and then I get so damn pissed off that the WTS did not have the integrity to keep their hands off the UN, protect the witnesses in Malawi, and had enough love and sense to protect innocent children. I cannot believe in hell fire or the trinity and now I can fear that maybe I will burn in hell because I don't believe the trinity! Hell of a thought! I have heard the trinity "explained" - oh my, no way and no sense at all. *** I don't feel too much in touch with God lately. I have no sure sense of "the truth" and then no way to comfort myself during these bad times I go thru. *** I had a routine of scriptures that comforted me and I went to the KH and this was some comfort. *** I feel a little lost these days. Don't want religion but do want God - and then when I pray I don't even know what God's name is anymore! That goes thru my head -I apologize to God for not knowing the correct name to use, for being so confused. I know Jehovah will straighten me out here - just going thru some stuff. But I was so sure before and trusted the WTS -as to their integrity and love for the sheep. I am pissed. Thanks for listening. *** Love Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
16:55:25
Comments

i want to weep...and help..wendy

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
17:21:46
Comments

Claudine, If it is any help, and I hope it is. It really comes down to a few things. FAITH! Love one another as you would yourself, LOVE the FATHER with all of your heart! and if there are things taught to you that are wrong, have FAITH that the FATHER will provide you with the answers! I call him the FATHER because that is what he is! When Jesus prayed to HIM, Jesus said basically, I have glorified your name. The only name Jesus ever called HIM is FATHER! Jesus also said who ever believes in me and does the will of My FATHER is also my brother, my mother and my sister! WE ARE ALL OF THE FATHERS CHILDREN, THE ONES WHO HAVE FAITH IN HIM! As a friend told me once, "And the rest is details". I was asked just last night if I prayed for my children, When I speak to my FATHER, it is not as much asking for HIS help as much as THANKING HIM FOR IT! FAITH, IT CAN MOVE MOUNTAINS! love bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
17:23:33
Comments

excuse the typo's, my baby was a pulling on my arm! :-) yeah that's my story and I'm sticking to it! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
22:21:10
Comments

Thanks Bonnielynn for the message. I have to get on track! And being thankful has always been the place for me to start - I haven't been appreciating as much as I usually do, but that is the place to begin. Thank you for reminding me. Love, CClaudine b *** Welcome Julie! - That was very bold and brave letting them know, that their policy isn't acceptable *** Buster - I think one of the things that has me depressed is what an horse's ass I have made of myself for all the insensitive, inappropriate, arrogant things I have said to my children, and to others that I cared about 0H WELL...as least I have stopped doing that . ***

Remote User:
Date:
01 Aug 2002
Time:
23:48:47
Comments

Hi Claudine! HAPPY, HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY! You will remember this one all of your life. Don't worry about all the things you're unsure of. Know that God knows AND CARES about what you are going through RIGHT NOW. Confusion and all. He made you. And he LOVES you. Just as you are. Not as in, 'Well, okay, I guess if I have to...' No, but as in, "Claudine, my beautiful child! Finally you are coming home! I'm SO HAPPY! I love you. Be patient. I will be standing right here with you, for the rest of your life. You're not alone now. And you never will be. I have SO MUCH to show you! And EVERYONE. Trust me. And talk to me all the time. You'll see...Believe me. And sometimes you will hear me talking back to you, too!"

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
06:35:26
Comments

To Claudine...Boy, can I ever relate to what you said above. I've felt exactly the same way. I haven't prayed in such a long time. I believe in God, Jesus etc, but I'm been so mixed up in my head about the Trinity, Hellfire, as you said...and I just get frustrated with the whole topic. When I hear sermons at churches about the Trinity etc, my stomach turns. I start thinking, How can all these religions believe and teach the Trinity, but only the JW's say it's all wrong. How can so many religions be completely wrong on these topics? I have gotten to the point where I don't think I'll ever really know what is true and what isn't. So many years of JW indoctrination swarms in the back of my mind, that it all gets jumbled up and I just have to start thinking about something else. Happy Belated Birthday! :-) Hang in there girl. Linda Thoman

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
08:04:13
Comments

... "I the Lord(Jehovah) SEARCH the HEART and examine the MIND, to reward a man according to his conduct, ACCORDING TO WHAT HIS DEEDS deserve." Jeremiah 17:10 ... "Then all the churches will know the *I am he* who SEARCHES HEARTS and MINDS, and I will repay each of you ACCORDING TO YOUR DEEDS. Revelation 2:23(Jesus) ...

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
09:53:26
Comments

" Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." The Watchtower October 1, 1967 p. 591 (Talk about loaded sentences. It is these type of incredible and dangerous claims that make an organization shy about admitting that mistakes can happen.)(Is the organization "essential for life"? Not as far as the bible is concerned.)

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:15:07
Comments

To Claudine, Linda Thoman (also SLC) ...Hi, bjc here. I have following your conversation about "trinity" and "hellfire" teachings in the churches. And how the JWs did not teach this falsehood. I too abhor such teachings too. *** I have a little information that I would like to share on the subject of Jehovah's Witnesses and their unique views on "trinity", "hellfire" doctrines, also what significance these teachings hold with God and so on. I think information might shed some light on these difficult subjects, and the significance of these teachings have in God's eyes in identifying God's Name People today, Israel of today. (Although these teachings by themselves are NOT the only identifier of Israel of our times. There is more.) *** The information I have posted below is taken from the book "The Report" written by a JW back in 1994, who left the organization because of so much wrongdoing on the part of the WTS. The author does see the JWs as a people adrift, coming ever so close to outright worship of the WTS Headquarters in rank apostasy and idolatry. In his book, he addresses these concerns and others and cites bible prophecy to prove his contention. The article is lengthy, so I will print it out in three (3) part sections for your perusal. Enjoy! *** bjc2read@yahoo.com *** PART I "The Report" Volume I pages 41-63 *** --- THE REPORT book --- *** JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES MEASURED IN THE LIGHT OF THE SCRIPTURES *** FACT: The Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation and people, are the only organized people on the face of the earth who actually carry God's Name (Jehovah) upon themselves. In fact, the teachings listed on the accompanying chart (page 64) are indeed teachings of the Jehovah's Witnesses. However, these merely represent fundamental truths, many of which, have been known throughout the centuries. No, these fundamental truths are not the exclusive knowledge of the Jehovah's Witnesses. No, not at all! Therefore, we ask the all-important question, namely: Does possessing these fundamental truths, by themselves, really prove that the Jehovah's Witnesses as an organization today are the True Religion of our time? No! In stead, what the Jehovah's Witnesses presently possess as a nation in the form of Bible knowledge and understanding, under the tutorship and direction of the Watchtower Society, does not measure up to the lofty Biblical description of true religion in it's complete sense. They best resemble the Jewish nation, under the tutorship of the Pharisees and religious leaders of Jesus' day! They have a "FRAMEWORK OF THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH", as Paul described. (See Romans 2:20.) You may remember that it was mentioned earlier in "The Report", the article God's Name People and the Framework of the Truth, the following in reference to Ancient Israel and their privilege of carrying God's Personal Name upon themselves: " ... It was the placing of this particular Name upon the Jewish nation that brought special "blessings" upon them. In fact, it was the `placing of His Name upon' ancient Israel, in itself, that made them a special people for His possession. (See Numbers 6:27.) The placing of God's Personal Name upon the Jewish nation proved to be the single most outstanding characteristic that identified them as His people, His inheritance, it identified them as being `Israel.' " There can be no question but that the privilege of being "called by God's Name" in itself made the Jewish nation, God's Name people. No people, except the 1st century congregation of Christians, were so privileged to be `called by God's Personal Name,' at least up until the year of 1931. "1931, you say...what happened in 1931?" Well, if you are one of Jehovah's Witnesses you may remember precisely what occurred in the year of 1931. PLEASE NOTE: It was in the year of 1931, that the International Bible Students then took the name upon themselves of Jehovah's Witnesses. Therefore, it is was this most important singular act, that is of placing this distinct Name — God's own Personal Name upon themselves, that actually made this people become "Israel" - modern-day "Israel" of our times. Think about it. With the appearance of the October 15th issue of the Watchtower Magazine, we find the first appearance of the Name "Jehovah" upon the cover of this particular magazine. The name itself had been resolutely adopted by a large assembly of International Bible Students, and the current President of the International Bible Students, in the previous summer of 1931 at a convention at Columbus, Ohio. Also, we notice that this particular issue of the Watchtower Magazine, October 15, 1931 in an iconoclastic fashion, removed the symbol of the "cross" from the front cover of it for the first time. The years to follow 1931 would give clear evidence that Jehovah's Witnesses had indeed become modern-day "Israel" of Bible prophecy, whether the prophecy be favorable or unfavorable. Jehovah's Witnesses themselves, in the year of 1931, entered a "covenant" with Jehovah God, just as the ancient Israelite nation did at Mount Sinai. The "covenant" or contract entered into was in the form of a resolution, adopted by the assembly of International Bible Students congregated at Columbus, Ohio, during the dates of July 24-30, 1931. This point is highlighted for us in the publication, Jehovah's Witnesses — Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, pg. 156, par. #2 which says: "THAT, having been bought with the precious blood of Jesus Christ our Lord and Redeemer, justified and begotten by Jehovah God and called to his kingdom, we unhesitatingly declare our entire allegiance and devotion to Jehovah God and his kingdom; that we are servants of Jehovah God commissioned to do a work in his name, and, in obedience to his commandment, to deliver the testimony of Jesus Christ, and to make known to the people that Jehovah is the true and Almighty God; therefore we joyfully embrace and take the name which the mouth of the Lord God has named, and we desire to be known as and called by the name, to wit, Jehovah's Witnesses. — Isa. 43:10-12" And so, we can clearly see that the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses had indeed, entered a "covenant" or contract to carry the personal Name of God. They had sworn their allegiance and obedience to this same God, the God of Jacob, by way of a public declaration and resolution. They had now taken upon themselves the responsibility that came with becoming, modern-day "Israel," of our times. And of course, Jehovah would himself, be obligated to hold them to this sworn oath of responsibility. IDENTIFYING MODERN-DAY JERUSALEM AND ISRAEL The Bible's fundamental or basic truths, as revealed in the Law Covenant given Moses, can be traced down from the nation of Israel, down through the 1st century congregation, and further down until our day and time. Yes, these basic "truths" about God have survived for thousands of years! And how have these basic truths survived, particularly through the years since the 1st century congregation? Well, we find upon examination of the historical facts, that these fundamental truths have been maintained by small Christian groups down through the years, since the 1st century congregation of Christians. These small Christian groups, acting as "custodians of truth," formed little clusters, and were known by various names, down through the centuries. These little groups kept certain characteristics, certain similarities, that made them appear very much like ancient Israel, as well as the first century congregation, in their form of worship and have maintained a "thread of truth" right down till our day. Take for example, the Ten Commandments. The first and second commandments in particular, were often visible within the ranks of small Christian groups, down through the centuries. (Exodus 20:3,4; Deut. 6:4) These same characteristics can actually serve, in our day and time, to identify: Modern-day Israel, or Jerusalem of our times, Jehovah's Witnesses. The table below highlights these characteristics. See if you, the reader, can pick out the similarities between "Israel" of old, and modern-day "Israel" spoken of in Bible prophecy — Jehovah's Witnesses. Remember, it is the "framework of Truth" that differentiates them from all other religions upon the face of the earth today. (Romans 2:20) The following characteristics distinguish them as modern-day Israel. They are: Ancient Israel's Key Characteristics: 1) Called by God's Personal Name 2) Mono-theistic (one God concept) 3) Iconoclastic (no images in worship) Similarities with, Jehovah's Witnesses as "Israel" who are also: 1) Called by God's Personal Name 2) Mono-theistic (non-trinitarian) 3) Iconoclastic (against images) We also cannot help but notice, that the Jehovah's Witnesses have become known, the world over, for their relentless attacks upon the doctrine of the great main-line religions of our time. And this is much to their credit, make no mistake about that. Based upon the foregoing, we notice that the Jehovah's Witnesses have scripturally demonstrated the church's failure in: (a) bringing honor to God's Personal Name, Jehovah (b) propounding the error and blasphemy of the trinity doctrine (c) propounding the error and blasphemy of eternal torment in Hellfire (d) the ungodly promotion of images in worship such as the cross. Nevertheless, these beliefs mentioned above, which are presently held by Jehovah's Witnesses, are actually for the most part, consistent with the beliefs of a group of 12th century Christians called the "Albigensians." The following is a brief description taken from the publication, The Story of Civilization Volume 4, The Age of Faith (pg. 771, 772), about the "Albigensians" and their beliefs: "...Opponents describe the Albigensians as rejecting the sacraments, the Mass, the veneration of images, the Trinity ... They made the Sermon on the Mount the essence of their ethics. They were taught to love their enemies, to care for the sick and the poor, never to swear, always to keep the peace, force was never moral, even against infidels, ... one should quietly trust that in the end God would triumph over evil, without using evil means." The historical source also tells us of other valuable points such as among the "Albigensians," "There was no hell or purgatory in their theology." Further, the same source states that this particular group of Christians: " ... denied that the [Catholic] Church was the Church of Christ; St. Peter had never come to Rome, had never founded the papacy; the popes were successors to the emperors, not the apostles. Christ had no place to lay His head, but the pope lived in a palace...these lordly archbishops and bishops (of the Catholic church), these worldly priests, these fat monks, were the Pharisees of old returned to life! The Roman Church, they were sure, was the `Whore of Babylon,' the clergy were a Synagogue of Satan, the pope was Antichrist." And this same source tells us that the group disdained the Roman Catholic Church's: "... confession, holy water, the cross; they called the churches `dens of thieves,' and Catholic priests seemed to them `traitors, liars, and hypocrites.'" Again, the facts according to the source: "The Story of Civilization," the "Albigensians," 1) disbelieved the trinity 2) were against giving veneration to images 3) did not believe in hellfire nor purgatory 4) were taught to love their enemies, keep the peace at all cost 5) taught that the Catholic Church was the "Whore of Babylon." 6) taught the Clergy was the Synagogue of Satan. 7) disdained "holy water" and "confession" 8) were totally against the "cross" 9) called the church a "den of thieves," and 10) called the Catholic priests "traitors," "liars," and "hypocrites." Now, we ask: Among religions today, which one does this sound most like? You know the answer, is that not so? If you have spent anytime studying the Bible with Jehovah's Witnesses or if you are yourself one of Jehovah's Witnesses, you indeed, know the answer. There can be no question but that there is a distinct and clear similarity in the religious convictions with this particular group, and the beliefs and convictions of Jehovah's Witnesses today. No, we are not trying to say that these early groups had the exact same beliefs on every single doctrine. We realize that during the years following the demise of the 1st century congregation, under the direction of the apostles, many superstitions and false beliefs surfaced among professed Christians. No doubt, it was a great struggle for these small groups to maintain any standard of faith in the face of the overwhelming odds against them. But the point we are making is that their beliefs are quite similar, if one would take the time to analyze the evidence. Therefore, the evidence proves that many fundamental teachings that Jehovah's Witnesses presently believe, did not actually originate with Charles Taze Russell as some believe, but were beliefs previously held by Christian groups such as the Arians, Waldenses, Lollards, Albigensians, Annabaptists, early Unitarians and numerous other groups of Christians for centuries. Yes, there is a common thread of truth that has been maintained down throughout the years since Jesus. But remember, these truths only represent the "framework of Truth." However, the great "sacred secrets" or "mysteries" [Greek: mysterions] of the Bible would continue to be held in secret until the "time of the end." (Daniel 12:4,9) To be sure, as Jesus said at John 16:13, the day would come when the following would be true: "However, when that one arrives, the spirit of the truth, he will guide you into all the truth, for he will not speak of his own impulse, but what things he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things coming." Yes, God's people could one day look forward to the time when the "spirit of truth" would "guide them" into "all" of the "truth" — beyond simply the "framework of truth," but "all" of the "truth." THE "CHILD-LEADER" FOR THE NATION OF ISRAEL Paul described the level of "truth" possessed by the Jewish nation during his day by saying: "If, now, you are a Jew in name and are resting upon law and taking pride in God, and you know his will and approve of things that are excellent because you are orally instructed out of the Law; and you are persuaded that you are a guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness, a corrector of the unreasonable ones, a teacher of babes, and having the framework of the knowledge and of the truth in the Law." Yes, Paul states that even though the Jewish people were "persuaded," (no doubt by their leaders) that they were provided by God as a "guide of the blind, a light for those in darkness, a corrector of unreasonable ones, teachers of babes," — what they merely possessed was only a "framework" or superstructure of "knowledge" and "truth," which was based upon the "Law covenant" handed down by Moses. No, the Jewish nation did not have the complete picture. The "Law" was to merely act as a "tutor," until the Christ arrived. (Galatians 3:24) The Greek word Paul employs for "framework" is mor'pho-sin which literally means a "form" or outline of something. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance describes the word as meaning a "formation," or "appearance" or "semblance" of something. Vines Expository of New Testament Words states that the word morphosis means: "a form or outline, denotes ... an image or impress, an outward semblance of knowledge of the truth." And again, what had given this "form," "outline" or "outward semblance of knowledge of the truth" to the Jewish nation? Paul again answers by saying it was the "Law" of Moses, as the Jews understood it. Let's notice what Paul said about it at Galatians 3:24 which says: "Consequently the Law has become our tutor [Greek: pedagogue] leading to Christ, that we might be declared righteous due to faith." We notice from what Paul states here that the "Law" given by Moses, actually became a "tutor" or literally a "child-leader" for the nation. Strong's Exhaustive Concordance describes the Greek word for "tutor" [pedagogue] as meaning: "a boy-leader, i.e. a servant whose office it was to take the children to school." Yes, the "tutor's" primary function was to simply "take the children to school," and that is all. No, he was not the primary instructor of the children at all. Vines Expository makes additional comments on this word by saying: "...the idea of instruction is absent. In this and allied words the idea is that of training, discipline, not of impartation of knowledge. The paidagogos was not the instructor of the child; he exercised a general supervision over him and was responsible for his moral and physical well-being. Thus understood, paidagogos is appropriately used with `kept in ward' and `shut up,' whereas, to understand it as equivalent to `teacher,' introduces an idea entirely foreign to the passage..." Therefore, if by chance, the national leaders got carried away somehow, and begin to feel that they had all the instruction they needed to teach the people, the results would be disastrous. Further, if the religious leaders began to feel as if they themselves should be the final word on all religious matters, they would have gotten far away from their assignment of using the "law" as a "child-leader," or "tutor" for the nation until the Messiah came. Certainly, the religious leaders would have gone far off the track if they began to give too much credence to their particular understanding and interpretation of what the "Law" Covenant really meant for the Jewish nation, before the promised Messiah arrived on the scene. And of course, this is precisely what happened to the Jewish nation whose leaders began to think of themselves as having more than a mere "framework of knowledge of truth." According to Paul, what the Jewish nation actually possessed was simply enough to `take them to school,' but since Jesus Christ was the actual "teacher," or "instructor," his teachings were much more advanced, accurate, and to the point, than what people of his day had ever experienced. So, when Jesus came to the nation of Israel, what did he find? Did he not find the nation being led by an unscriptural council of 71 men called the "Sanhedrin." Yes, that's exactly what he found. The "Sanhedrin" was totally, an unscriptural arrangement, nowhere to be found in the "Law" at all. The Sanhedrin was made up of "Sadducees," "Pharisees" and "scribes," and there can be no question that among them there existed a serious lack of "knowledge" since the Bible tells us that it was these leaders who led the way in ultimately rejecting Christ's teachings. It was primarily these individuals who by their leadership caused the nation to lose their relationship with Jehovah God, was it not? The Sanhedrin was presided over by the Sadducee High Priest Caiaphas, and the Bible tells us this revealing information about the Sadducees at Acts 23:8: "For Sadducees say there is neither resurrection nor angel nor spirit, but the Pharisees publicly declare them all." No, the Sadducees did not believe in God's power of "resurrection," of "angels," nor of "spirit." This was because the Sadducees did not believe any part of the Hebrew text but the writings of Moses, the first five books of the Bible. Think of the implications of what this means. This would mean that the entire Jewish nation was led in worship by a High Priest who did not have faith in the holy writings of Jeremiah, Isaiah, Ezekiel, Daniel. No, he did not believe in the Bible's accounts of Elijah and Elisha's resurrection of the dead. And yet, he was the spiritual leader of the nation when Jesus arrived on the scene. And were the Pharisees any better? No, Josephus, the Jewish historian who at one time described himself as a Pharisee, according to Harper's Bible Dictionary reports: "They [Pharisees] believed that the soul survives death and is punished or rewarded with another life." — pg. 783 Clearly, the Pharisees were influenced by false pagan teachings of Greek philosophers, prevalent during such time. And yet, this is what they believed. This is what they taught. There can be no question but that the nation of Israel, under the leadership of the Sadducees and Pharisees, had strayed a long way away from the "truth," as we know it today. However, we remember, Paul states at Romans 2:20, the nation still had the "Law," the "tutor," the "child-leader" that was to assist them, that was to lead them to the Christ. Yes, they had the "semblance," the "outline," the "framework of the knowledge of the truth." That's what they had. And that was enough or sufficient from Jehovah's standpoint, to bring them as a nation, to the Christ, their final instructor. Therefore, just as the Jewish nation had the teachings of the "Law" covenant that would act as a "tutor" leading to the Christ, so also the "framework of truth" down through the centuries would also act as a "tutor," "child-leader," until God's time to reveal the "sacred secrets" of the Bible. (Galatians 3:24) Remember, these are only the ABC's of religious truth, you might say. The Jehovah's Witnesses revived many of these teachings during the time of C.T. Russell in the early 1870's, but have progressed no farther. Nevertheless, these basic truths have served to make the Witnesses as a people separate, distinct, different from all the other forms of worship on earth today. These truths, coupled with being "called by God's Name," really make them Modern-day "ISRAEL." *** End of Part I -- "The Report" *** EMC Publications PO Box 230445 Montgomery, Ala 36123 email: emcpublications@yahoo.com *** bjc ***

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:22:13
Comments

To: Claudine, Linda Thoman, (& SLC) *** "The Report" part II - pages 41-63 *** PROPHECY — FAR BEYOND FUNDAMENTAL TRUTHS *** However, many of their present and supposedly more advanced doctrinal beliefs, strictly formulated by the Watchtower Society on the more deeper matters of prophecy, are incorrect and cannot be Biblically substantiated. And this in turn, automatically makes for an elementary education of the scripture for the rank and file Jehovah's Witness. In our examination of the Watchtower Society's teachings, we stress prophecy here, since the average Jehovah's Witness, due to the Society's teaching, sees all unfavorable prophecy pertaining to "Israel" or "Jerusalem" as applying to the churches of Christendom and/or pagandom. Let's notice this comment from the publication Insight On the Scriptures under the subject of "Unfaithful Jerusalem." It states: "Since much that is said concerning Jerusalem in the Scriptures is in condemnation of her, it is clear that only when faithful did Jerusalem symbolize Jehovah's heavenly organization and, at times, the true Christian congregation, `the Israel of God.' (Ga 6:16) When unfaithful, it was pictured as a prostitute and an adulterous woman; it became like the pagan Amorites and Hittites that once controlled the city. (Eze 16:3, 15, 30-42) As such, it could only represent apostates, those following a `prostitute' course of infidelity to the God whose name they claim to bear. — Jas 4:4" Now, let's pay close attention to the main point of their explanation. It says: "It can thus be seen that `Jerusalem' is used in a multiple sense, and the context must in each case be considered to gain correct understanding." — Vol. II. pg. 49 CHECKING THE CONTEXT? And so, the Watchtower Society says that we can determine whom "Jerusalem" represents by the surrounding context of scriptures. However, in the case of the scriptural example they cited as proof, namely Eze 16:3, 15, 30-42, did the Watchtower Society themselves check the context here? Evidently they didn't because notice what verses 59-62 of the same chapter says about the `prostituting, adulterous woman:' "For this is what the Lord Jehovah has said, `I also must do with you just as you have done, because you despised the oath in breaking [my] covenant. And I, I myself, must remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth, and I must establish for you an indefinitely lasting covenant... And you will certainly remember your ways and feel humiliated ... And I, I myself , will establish my covenant with you; and you will have to know that I am Jehovah, in order that you may remember and actually be ashamed and you may no more come to have any reason to open [your] mouth because of your humiliation, when I make an atonement for you for all that you have done,' is the utterance of the Lord Jehovah." Did you notice that the same `adulterous, prostitute woman' is now spoken of as being given an "indefinitely lasting covenant?" And did you also notice that the sins of this same `Hittite, Amorite-like woman' is now being `atoned' for by Jehovah? And further, once she has been `atoned' for, she can now regain her good standing with Jehovah, the kind of standing she had with Him in the beginning. As Jehovah said: "I must remember my covenant with you in the days of your youth." Clearly, this "adulterous woman" is now being RESTORED to Jehovah's favor! That point is crystal clear, isn't it? And so we can see that if an individual were to do exactly as suggested by the Society he he would find that the same "woman" spoken of as an "adulterous," "Hittite," and "Amorite," is also the same "woman" that is to be `atoned for' and subsequently receives an "indefinitely lasting covenant." Now, does that sound like the religions of Pagandom and/or Christendom to you? Again, let's keep in mind what the Society actually said was their definition as to how one can `correctly understand' the verses in question. Yes, we want to be able to correctly identify modern-day "Jerusalem" in these prophecies, right? The Watchtower Society says: If it's good, then "Jerusalem" [or Israel] represents God's people. And, if the context indicates bad, it merely represents false worshippers, "apostates," or "prostitute" "pagan nations" — in other words, Christendom and/or Pagandom. However, as you have just observed, what do we conclude if the context of prophecy shows both good and bad for the same said "Jerusalem" [or Israel]? Remember, in many, many passages, if we really examine the entire context of the verses considered, we see that the same "Jerusalem" that is spoken of in an unfavorable light, is later spoken of as having received "restoration" by the hand of God! Now, how do we explain that? Also, many prophecies demonstrate that the same "Jerusalem" [or Israel] who previously had a good standing before Him, later embark upon an unrepentant course of sin and are the very ones that ultimately bring on an estranged relationship with God, and finally become the recipients of severe discipline from His hand! And finally, it is from this "Lo-ammi" or disowned state, that they [Israel] have to be "restored." (Hosea 1:8, 9) Think about it. Let's reason upon this: It would certainly make more sense to believe that these prophecies could only apply to one "Jerusalem," one people, Jehovah's Witnesses — the true "Israel of God." Really, the only people, who have the real capacity to `leave the Holy Covenant' are the people who are in the "Holy Covenant" with Him, right? (Daniel 11:30) And Jehovah's Witnesses say that they are the only people, truly, in the "New Covenant" with Jehovah, right? For remember, Christendom is not in any "Holy Covenant" with Jehovah God whatsoever, are they? Now, doesn't that make more sense, when you really, really think about it. What is more, the "Israel" in question mentioned in prophecy could only represent, and we repeat only represent, the "Israel of God" that has been "covenanted" to Him in marriage. (See Isaiah 54:5-8.) Furthermore, contrary to what the Watchtower Society says, Christendom has never "claimed to bear" God's Personal Name, Jehovah. They completely avoid the use of His Name today, as they have for centuries! Therefore, Christendom could not in any way, shape or form fit the Biblical description of "Israel," since they are: (a) trinitarian, (b) lovers of icon or image worship, and (c) quite simply HATE the Personal Name of God, Jehovah. Therefore, how could Christendom, or any religion of pagandom really represent the "Israel of God," spoken of prophetically in scripture. That would simply be an IMPOSSIBILITY. Think about it. To further this thought, let's take another excellent example in Isaiah 2:1-9. The Jehovah's Witnesses have all been taught that verses 1-4 have application upon themselves, in their present state of increase, in our day and time. But have you ever read the remaining 5 verses in context. Let's notice these: "O men of the house of Jacob, come and let us walk in the light of Jehovah." "For you have forsaken your people, the house of Jacob. For they have become full of what is from the East, and they are practicers of magic like the Philistines, and with the children of foreigners they abound. And their land is filled with silver and gold, and there is no limit to their treasures. And their land is filled with horses, and there is no limit to their chariots. And their land is filled with worthless gods. To the work of one's hands they bow down, to that which one's fingers have made. And earthling man bows down, and man becomes low, and you cannot possibly pardon them." Now keep in mind, that the Watchtower Society has never explained the remaining five verses in their publications, namely verses 5 - 9, which shows us that the same "Jacob" [or Israel], who in verses 1-4 has great increase and people streaming to Jehovah's Mountain, in these verses are spoken of as being polluted, and completely unclean before Jehovah in these same "last days." Now, how could "Israel" picture God's people [Jehovah's Witnesses] in the first 4 verses, and someone else [like Christendom] in the remaining 5 verses? And what's more, the prophecy shows that those who refuse the invitation to `come and walk in the light,' away from such a bad environment, will ultimately lose his favor totally! And so we can see that the Jehovah's Witnesses as a people will be faced with a grave situation in the very near future, according to PROPHECY! Think about it. However, keep in mind, that this is not to suggest that there are no discerning ones among them. To the contrary, no doubt, there may be many who are searching the scriptures because they have many, many questions concerning what is being taught them by the Watchtower Society. Neither, is this said to imply that there are none who are sincere among them either. No, because prophecy clearly indicates that many from among the family of Jehovah's Witnesses will prevail in the end. Daniel 11:32-35 clearly indicates this fact! No, but what we are saying is that, the Jehovah's Witnesses as a whole, have not matured as a people or nation, spiritually speaking, the same as the Jewish nation is Jesus' day. Therefore, they correspond perfectly, in almost every detail and way, to the Jewish nation of Jesus' day under the Pharisees and Sadducees. And by so corresponding, they fulfill many, many prophecies, spoken of in the Prophetic books of the Bible concerning "Israel," God's people of our time. And the essay or dissertation called: "THE REPORT" has been written to demonstrate such fulfillment among Jehovah's Witnesses of our time. — Hebrews 6:1,2; Matthew 9:36; Ezekiel 21:7 This same lack of spiritual progress will ultimately cause them to fail, again according to prophecy, as a light-bearing organization according to the standard set by Jesus Christ himself, our exemplar. And this will be despite the fact that they now carry the Name of God, Jehovah, upon themselves. Remember: it is this Name that has set them apart from all other religions. And, on the other hand, it is this same Name that carries with it grave responsibilities as we have seen. Yes, Jehovah's people must live up to that Name! — See Deuteronomy 28:58-62. "COMMANDMENTS OF MEN" STUMBLES NATION Well, remember Jesus told the Pharisees what was really wrong with their worship by saying as recorded at Matthew 15:9: "It is in vain that they worship me [Jehovah] because they teach as doctrines the COMMANDMENT OF MEN." Did you notice that the teaching of `commandments of men' could result in the worship of the entire nation being subsequently aborted, rendered "in vain," even? Yes, the Jewish leaders had rendered the people's worship in "vain" because of teaching "commandments of men." This is very displeasing to Jehovah God. These "teachings of men" are viewed by Jehovah as "leaven" that corrupts the entire nation. (Matthew 16:12; 1 Corinthians 5:6) By teaching the "commandments of men," the Pharisees could control the people and make them think what they wanted them to think. The people were thus following the "commandments of men" and not the commandments of God, involving themselves in IDOLATRY, creature worship even, which is very offensive to Jehovah. And we know that Jehovah will not tolerate, nor except such worship, even if it is given in His name! The same thing is happening today among the Jehovah's Witnesses under the direction of the Watchtower Society as teachers. Think about it. Therefore, remember, "You must not have any god before my face." (Exodus 20:3) Also: "I will not share my glory with anyone." — Isaiah 42:8. Oh, the Watchtower Society projects the image that they understand completely, that is, the prophecies of the Bible, even in detail. But the facts reveal, they do not and are actually very confused in their teachings and doctrines on the "deeper things of God." (1 Cor. 2:10) Furthermore, some Jehovah's Witnesses have become enthusiastic advocates of the Watchtower Society — religious fanatics, if you will, like Paul was in the beginning, and may not even be aware of it. These extremists, are in fact, actually following the teachings or "commandments of men" — The Watchtower Society, not God's Word on all matters. Many of these are "elders" in the congregation. (Mark 7:7,8) In more recent years, it has been noticed, that newer policies and procedures have been added, that we believe, will produce in the end, a cult of MINDLESS FOLLOWERS who operate and carry out their "sacred service" independent of inspired thought from God's Word the Bible! These individuals may become dangerous in the end, again, according to prophecy. (See Matthew 24:9-12; John 16:2.) Remember, all of this has been prophesied in scripture. Hard to believe? Well, all one has to do is make a close examination of the teachings and policies of the Jehovah's Witnesses and this startling fact will become quite clear. The dissertation called "THE REPORT", based upon Ezekiel 21:7, is designed to reveal these facts. *** End of Part II "The Report" Volume I *** EMC Publications PO Box 230445 Montgomery, Ala 36123 email: emcpublications@yahoo.com *** bjc ***

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
14:24:17
Comments

To Claundine, Linda Thoman (& SLC) *** Part III. -- "The Report" pgs 41-63 *** DISTRESS FOR THE NATION FORETOLD *** Jeremiah 30:7 foretold great "distress" for God's Name people in the last days by saying: "Alas! For that day is a great one, so that there is no other like it, and it is the time of distress for Jacob. But he will be saved even out of it." — New World Translation Yes, as mentioned earlier, Bible prophecy indicates that the Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation will be decimated of population, (like the Jewish nation), with only a remnant left of the nation to continue true worship because of sin and transgression against Jehovah's Law! Yes, and because of such sin, a distinct separation will occur in the brotherhood of Jehovah's Witnesses. Yes, the "stick of Judah" will separate from the "stick of Joseph." And yet, after a period of discipline, they will indeed, come back together again. Please carefully consider the following scriptural citations and these points will become quite visible: 1) Isaiah 11:12, 13 2) Ezekiel 37:15-23 3) Hosea 1:11 4) Zechariah 11:14 5) Jeremiah 30:1-3 However, during the interim of the same said separation, Jehovah will strike His people in the form of "severe" discipline. And then, after severe "trampling" as the scriptures indicate, this discipline is to be followed by intense light of "understanding" from Jehovah God concerning their transgressions against Him. Yes, they will then come to "understand" that `all the prophets' pointed forward to this day of discipline for the Christian congregation. — Revelation 12:6,14; Acts 3:21 Isaiah 30:26 puts it this way by saying: "And the light of the full moon must become as the light of the glowing [sun]; and the very light of the glowing [sun] will become seven times as much, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals even the severe wound resulting from the stroke BY HIM." Also Jeremiah 23:19,20 which says: "Look! a windstorm of Jehovah, rage itself, has gone forth, an onward-sweeping tempest. Upon the head of the wicked ones it will whirl. The burning anger of Jehovah will not turn back until he will have carried out and until he will have made the ideas of his heart come true. In the final part of the days you people [Israel] will give your consideration to it with understanding. — See also Jeremiah 30:23, 24. Make no mistake, Jehovah is going to discipline His people "Israel" (Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation) — in the most "severe" way. And yet, happily in the end, a core of true worshippers taken from the Jehovah's Witnesses will be eventually made into a "strong nation" with the help and assistance of others, who are onlookers of these Biblical events of the future. Hard to believe? Again, let's notice what Micah 4:6,7 prophetically says of the future for God's people: "In that day, says the LORD [JEHOVAH], I will assemble the lame and gather those who have been driven away, and those whom I have afflicted. The lame I will make the remnant, and those who were cast off, a strong nation; and the LORD [JEHOVAH] will reign over them in Mount Zion now and forevermore." — Oxford Annotated Bible EXILE OF JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES — WHEN? Now, we may remember that the Watchtower Society has taught for some time that first Jesus Christ began his reign over God's people in 1914 and then, Jehovah God allowed His people, Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation, to go off into in "exile," that is into "Babylon" during the years of 1918-19. (See July 1 Watchtower 1982 pg. 24, 25.) However, as you have just read in the above scripture, the exile of God's people actually comes BEFORE Jehovah begins His reign over His people. Yes, before His glorious reign. And that "reign" is to last "forevermore," or as the New World Translation says: till "time indefinite." Yes, Jehovah's rule over His people will never cease, but it comes only after His people, Jehovah's Witnesses, first go off into exile, away from Jehovah's face. That's what the scriptures indicate. Therefore, we can see that the Watchtower Society has reversed the order of events. Yes, they have placed Christ coming into Kingdom power in the year of 1914, and the exile of his people coming after that. Whereas, the scripture clearly states that the exile precedes Jehovah God's reign (in the hands of Jesus) over his people, the Watchtower Society has reversed these events to accommodate their doctrine of 1914. Their understanding on this matter is clearly incorrect, and Micah 4:6,7 proves it. Also, Isaiah 49:19-21 speaks prophetically of God's people after being disciplined: "Though you were ruined and made desolate and your land laid waste, now you will be too small for your people, and those who devoured you will be far away. The children born during your bereavement will yet say in your hearing, `this place is too small for us;' Then you will say in your heart, `Who bore me these? I was bereaved and barren; I was exiled and rejected. Who brought these up? I was left all alone, but these — where have they come from?'" — New International Version; See also Isaiah 65:1; Romans 11:25, 26. Now this really brings us to the heart of our position as EMC Publications. This point brings us full circle since it tells the entire story about Jehovah's Witnesses and their future destiny under the direction of the Watchtower Society. For years now our message as stated has been the following: "Jehovah's Witnesses, as modern-day `Israel' — destined to fall and be restored." Yes, we believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are destined to "fall," under the leadership of the Watchtower Society, and yet, they will later be regrouped, "restored," according to Bible prophecy. The wickedness we see prevalent today among the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses can no doubt be largely attributed to the leadership of the organization, the Watchtower Society. Therefore, rather than completely destroy the entire nation of Jehovah's Witnesses, Jehovah chooses to "discipline" the nation, or people, to bring a "remnant" to their senses. However, we feel, the Watchtower Society and it's Governing Body, as a corporate structure, will receive a very, special punishment — utter destruction! That too will be explained in detail, scripturally, in "THE REPORT" document. Although Jehovah God could exercise his Almighty power to destroy the entire nation of Jehovah's Witnesses from the face of the earth with one swipe according to Malachi 4:5, 6 — nevertheless, in His mercy, and "loyalty" to His promises, His Name and "covenant" with them, He chooses to exercise certain provisions within His contract with the nation, much like the ones Solomon spoke of as found at 1 Kings 8:46-50 which says: "In case they [Israel] sin against you [Jehovah] (for there is no man that does not sin), and you have to be incensed at them and abandon them to the enemy, and their captors actually carry them off captive to the land of the enemy distant or nearby; and they indeed come to their senses [`be think themselves' KJV] in the land where then have been carried off captive, and they actually return and make request to you for favor in the land of their captors, saying, `We have sinned and erred, we have acted wickedly'; and they indeed return to you with all their heart and with all their soul in the land of their enemies who carried them off captive, and they indeed pray to you in the direction of their land that you gave to their forefathers, the city that you have chosen and the house that I have built to your name; you must also hear from the heavens, your established place of dwelling, their prayer and their request for favor, and you must execute judgment for them, and you must forgive your people who had sinned against you and all their transgressions with which they transgressed against you..." Amazingly, this information you have just read, is just as applicable to modern-day Jehovah's Witnesses, as it was for the nation of Israel, thousands of years ago. And, believe it or not, scriptural prophecies such as Micah 4:6, 7 and Isaiah 30:26 and Jeremiah 23:20 are prophecies that are yet to be fulfilled! Yes, they remain to be fulfilled in the near future, and will surely be fulfilled upon modern-day Israel, God's Name people, the Jehovah's Witnesses. Think about it. But, you may be saying: "Why should they (the Jehovah's Witnesses) be disciplined so severely?" Again, it is because they, like the Jewish Nation, are in a covenant relationship with Jehovah God. Yes, the Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation have dedicated their lives, no not to Jesus Christ, the Son of God — but to JEHOVAH, the Great God of Jacob, and therefore must be held accountable to that solemn oath the same as the Jewish nation was held to the one made at Mt. Sinai. (See Exodus 19:7,8) The Bible is clear: `What you vow, pay to God, for he has no pleasure in fools. It is better not to vow, than vow and do not pay.'— Ecclesiastes 5:4-6 The Jehovah's Witnesses as a nation, have made such a vow. They have made a dedication before Jehovah and are therefore in a "covenant" with Him. They must either fulfill the terms of that agreement or pay for their disobedience. But you must be saying, "what disobedience?" "How are they acting disobediently?" Well, again, "THE REPORT" will answer these questions. But suffice it to say for now, that the Jehovah's Witnesses, as an organization, have been prophesied about many times in the Bible. Yes, they are the modern-day Jews of our time! Remember, the Israelites of Isaiah's day were actually "Jehovah's Witnesses" as Isaiah 43:10 makes plain. Yes, these people were known by God's personal name. The people today, who bear that name, that is, the personal name of God [Jehovah], can be easily identified by that Name. They are the Jehovah's Witnesses, and there is huge responsibility in carrying that Name. Yes, they correspond to the "city," modern-day "Jerusalem," identified at Jeremiah 25:29 as being in line for judgment in our day and time. It reads: `the city upon whom my name is called, ... I am starting off in bringing calamity.'— New World Translation This understanding helps us discern the true meaning of the following words by Jesus at Luke 21:23, 24 which says: "Woe to the pregnant women and the ones suckling a baby in those days! For there will be great necessity upon the land and wrath on this people [spiritual Israel]; and they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and JERUSALEM will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." — New World Translation Yes, before the world at large is to be judged, God's own name people must be judged. And we know, the only people carrying God's personal name today is the Jehovah's Witnesses. 1 Peter 4:17 further says: "Now it is for the appointed time for Judgment to start with the House of God." Yes, judgment "starts" with the "house of God." But still, you may be wondering: "Just how are they [Jehovah's Witnesses] becoming unfaithful as an organization?" Again, to get the answer to this question and many others, we must consider some of the detailed information that deals with actual doctrines, teachings and policies of the Watchtower Society, the leaders of the Jehovah's Witnesses movement. This information has been compiled in a dissertation called "THE REPORT" based upon a unique prophecy found in Ezekiel 21:7 which specifically deals with God's chosen people. Yes, our time, is a time of great "peril." (2 Timothy 3:1 KJV), and "THE REPORT" addresses these concerns. --- End of Part III--- "The Report" pgs 41-62--- EMC Publications PO Box 230445 Montgomery, Ala 36123 email: emcpublications@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
15:17:02
Comments

Just an observation: The last book that was posted said that the JW are the only religion that is faithful to Gods name. I don't think that anyone really objects to the Jehovah name being used. I have seen it used in my church and in songs, but to suggest that others are not being faithful about using is is nothing but Watchtower propaganda. The name Jehovah was actually created by a Catholic church monk(a lost soul from false religion as the Watchtower says). This monk lived about 700 years ago in Spain. This was recognized in "An Aid To Bible Understanding" but has been suppressed in the new edition "Insight on the Scriptures" Now my question would be, if Gods name is important enough to suggest that other religions are not being faithful using it, then why are they not using the closer name Yahweh. Now I have read that they Society prefers Jehovah because it is more well known. I guess I would question why they did not accept that reason for when they use torture stake vs. cross. See folks, it doesn't add up. If you want to know the real truth, then you will have to accept the fact that a member of the Wicked Catholic Church(which the Organization has said before is Satan's Organization) actually named the Jehovah's witness. I believe that fringe religions try to create issues where they can to make them look different. This is one of those examples.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
15:31:14
Comments

Listen to testimonies from Jehovah's Witnesses(who found the truth of the bible) www.jwinfoline.com www.towertotruth.net

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
15:44:27
Comments

I have been associated with JW's for some time and on the whole have always found them to be very honest, pleasant and good living people.However, the recent revelations(pardon the pun)about child abuse within the organization have left me cold, disappointed and confused. The thing which really annoys me is the fact that they have not, as far as I am aware, made a public response.Also they have never actually admitted that child abuse takes place within the organization. The JW's say that they are not part of the world and that they are different to Chistendom.I cannot accept this now and feel that they are no different to any other religion. I feel very upset about the whole issue. Anne E mail: woodhouse_a@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
17:38:47
Comments

Raquel VanRiper-raquelmoon58@hotmail.com will see you at the march 9/27!Keep fighting for the children, Bro.Bowen, justice will prevail!

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
18:15:56
Comments

Hello, I have a friend that is a JW and your info is very interesting and helpful. I am a former Mormon and have serious interest in all cult information. I have a Children's Health Business called Children's HealthWatch Organization Thank you, Carol 775 885-2743

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
21:03:19
Comments

Subj: RE: Cover up of child molestations within Jehovah's witness organization Date: 8/2/2002 4:33:57 PM Central Daylight Time From: TophersGirl1964 To: Editor@people.com Dear Editor: I have been a reader for many years, I want to alert you to a cover-up by the elders and Governing Body of the Jehovah's witnesses, regarding pedophiles in the congregation. I'm sure you heard or saw the Dateline episode but this goes far beyond that. You can contact Bill Bowen at www. SilentLambs.com he and some other have recently been disfellowshipped for "causing divisions." Seems they like the Catholic Church would rather harbor a pedophile and disfellowship (excommunicate) the victim. Please look into this a story in such a well read publication might help those fighting for the victims Sincerely, Sheila Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
21:05:37
Comments

To all: Above is my letter to People magazine they have done a large expose on the Catholic church, now maybe they will focus on the coverup in the organization. I kept it short hoping that it would catch someone's eye. Crossing my fingers Sheila Madonia

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
21:16:49
Comments

What is this march about 7/27 and where is the march? Also what is the march about? Thanks in advance.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
22:20:28
Comments

Wishing you all the very best, keep on fighting. Jeremiah among so many others, old and new fought for what was and is still right. In fact many, many 'leaders' were in their hearts, enemies of Jehovah God and his Son. Regards. My email is: lynntcb@tpg.com.au

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
22:42:34
Comments

Thank you so much for all the pep- talks in response to me being in the dumps! And the happy birthday wishes. You are all wonderful and this is the one place in the whole world, that I can go with all the issues and know someone understands. Love, Claudine *** P.S.I copied some of the Report from bjc - thanks bjc, don't know if I am ready to read this, but I did copy it to read later - ANY prophecy is suspect to me at this time. But I appreciated the input regarding the trinity and hell fire. *** saw letter to People Mag...great! and saw there is another new visitor or two who are concerned. I have never heard from Stark- maybe he is on vacation.C.E.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
22:43:25
Comments

Thank you so much for all the pep- talks in response to me being in the dumps! And the happy birthday wishes. You are all wonderful and this is the one place in the whole world, that I can go with all the issues and know someone understands. Love, Claudine *** P.S.I copied some of the Report from bjc - thanks bjc, don't know if I am ready to read this, but I did copy it to read later - ANY prophecy is suspect to me at this time. But I appreciated the input regarding the trinity and hell fire. *** saw letter to People Mag...great! and saw there is another new visitor or two who are concerned. I have never heard from Stark- maybe he is on vacation.C.E.

Remote User:
Date:
02 Aug 2002
Time:
22:56:40
Comments

Anne - you see what the rest of us see and feel the same way as we do. Most of feel betrayed and sadden and very confused. Have you read all the posts, past months and the other sections in the web site here? It completely devastated me and appalled me to think I was associated even remotely with anyone that supports such a policy. But it was not anything I did not know - I knew of pedophilia within the congregation, each incident I considered an isolate case - funny how the mind works. None of the pedophiles were DF'd and one elder let his son-in-law take the blame for what he himself(elder) was doing to his own granddaughter. Ruin the marriage and the brother left the "truth" - don't know what happened to him. I have heard sisters say these pedophiles are dead now as if that were the wages for their sins, since they were never DF'd or prosecuted. As if this is the answer to waiting on Jehovah. It is very encouraging to read posts from new people who find silentlambs. Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
00:08:18
Comments

The Bible, Jesus I believe, offers easy advice for those 'drowning' in endless, confusing and mind-numbing and faith-destroying debates about doctrine. "By their works, you will know them". Simple. Comforting. I'm so grateful for that. I almost need nothing else. It's why we're all here, isn't it?

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
07:07:21
Comments

" We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 p.591 ___ Now what does the scriptures have to say: Ps. 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him in truth. ___ John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me." ___Gods word is the BIBLE(Not the Watchtower and other publications) and the bible says nothing about going through an organization to come to the Father. We can have a personal relation ship with our Creator. Heb. 4:16 Let us therefore draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace to help in time of need.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
07:08:40
Comments

" We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 p.591 ___ Now what does the scriptures have to say: Ps. 145:18 The LORD is near to all who call upon Him, to all who call upon Him in truth. ___ John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, but through Me." ___ Gods word is the BIBLE(Not the Watchtower and other publications) and the bible says nothing about going through an organization to come to the Father. We can have a personal relationship with our Creator. Heb. 4:16 Let us therefore draw near with confidence to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and may find grace to help in time of need.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
08:08:48
Comments

Senate Members welcome incoming correspondence from the public via e-mail over the Internet. While Senators may choose to respond to your note directly through e-mail, there may be cases where more extensive follow-up is necessary. Please include a mailing address on your notes in addition to your e-mail address. The following New York State Senators are currently participating: Senator District email Alesi, James S. 55th alesi@senate.state.ny.us Andrews, Carl 20th andrews@senate.state.ny.us Balboni, Michael A.L. 7th balboni@senate.state.ny.us Bonacic, John J. 40th bonacic@senate.state.ny.us Breslin, Neil D. 42nd breslin@senate.state.ny.us Brown, Byron W. 57th bbrown@senate.state.ny.us Bruno, Joseph L. 43rd bruno@senate.state.ny.us Connor, Martin 25th connor@senate.state.ny.us DeFrancisco, John A. 49th jdefranc@senate.state.ny.us Dollinger, Richard A. 54th dollinge@senate.state.ny.us Duane, Thomas K. 27th duane@senate.state.ny.us Espada, Pedro , Jr. 32nd espada@senate.state.ny.us Farley, Hugh T. 44th farley@senate.state.ny.us Fuschillo, Charles J., Jr. 8th fuschill@senate.state.ny.us Gentile, Vincent J. 23rd gentile@senate.state.ny.us Gonzalez, Efrain , Jr. 31st gonzalez@senate.state.ny.us Hannon, Kemp 6th hannon@senate.state.ny.us Hassell-Thompson, Ruth 33rd hassellt@senate.state.ny.us Hevesi, Daniel 13th dhevesi@senate.state.ny.us Hoffmann, Nancy Larraine 48th hoffmann@senate.state.ny.us Johnson, Owen H. 4th ojohnson@senate.state.ny.us Krueger, Liz 26th lkrueger@senate.state.ny.us Kruger, Carl 21st kruger@senate.state.ny.us Kuhl, John R. 52nd kuhl@senate.state.ny.us Lachman, Seymour P. 22nd lachman@senate.state.ny.us Lack, James J. 2nd lack@senate.state.ny.us Larkin, William J., Jr. 39th larkin@senate.state.ny.us LaValle, Kenneth P. 1st lavalle@senate.state.ny.us Leibell, Vincent L. 37th leibell@senate.state.ny.us Libous, Thomas W. 51st Senator@Senatorlibous.com

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
08:30:31
Comments

Mayor Michael R. Bloomberg City Hall New York, NY 10007 (212) 788-9600 FAX (212) 788-2460 E-MAIL -- http://nyc.gov/html/mail/html/mayor.html>...Maybe the Mayor of New York would be interested in another type of Terrorism that is head quartered in his own city! The kind of TERRORIST that hide child molesters,, that DF's the one that are trying to help the children. The kind of TERRORIST that ALLOWS child molesters to roam the streets and go door to door disguised as ministers of GOD! The Org the Mayors own community, hiding thousands of names of child molesters! The file is in his fare city! If a federal Judge can order the president to give over the names of the detainee's of 9/11 then the Mayor can order the Org to hand over their file! To bad the march isn't set for 9/11 when millions of people will be there, or watching! Because even though this has nothing to do with the terrorist of then, This Org IS TERRORIZING children, making them face the accused, telling them that there is nothing that can be done when there is not two or more witnesses! Who defines terror? I say let the abused children of the world give their definition. LET THE TWELVE YEAR OLD IN CHICAGO IN NOVEMBER, THAT GOT BEAT TO DEATH WITH AN EXTENSION CORD TELL, LET HER BROTHERS WHO WERE FORCED TO PARTICIPATE IN THE BEATING TELL! LET THE EIGHT MONTH OLD BABY WHO HAS CIGARETTE BURNS ALL OVER IT'S LITTLE BODY TELL, LET LITTLE SAMATHA FROM CALF. TELL! LET THE TWO MONTH OLD BABY THAT WAS SHOOK AND HAD IT'S LITTLE BABY HEAD BANGED AGAINST A METTLE BAR UNTIL DEAD TELL! LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN CHASED IN TX ONE AT A TIME AND DROWNED BY THEIR OWN MOTHER TELL! LET THE LITTLE CHILDREN IN GARY, IN THAT WERE BEING SOLD BY THEIR MOTHER TO PERFORM SEXUAL ACTS FOR OTHERS, WHILE SHE TOOK THE MONEY AT THE DOOR TELL! LET THE TWO BABYS LEFT IN THEIR MOTHERS VEHICLE TO SLOWLY BAKE TO DEATH WHILE THE MOTHER HAD HER HAIR DONE TELL! LET THE LITTLE LAMB TIED TO A POST AND MOLESTED WHILE HEARING THE SCRIPTURES TELL. LET THE LAMBS DEFINE TERROR! TERROR OF THE SPIRIT, MIND, AND BODY!

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
12:15:52
Comments

This is a great web site. Although I was not sexually abused, I was mentally abused. You see it was all part of the "test by fire" the elders put me through to see if I was qualified to be a ministerial servant, even though I never asked to be one. In the end when I was about to be appointed I dropped out and stopped attending meetings. Part of "test by fire" I'm sure was to see how I would handle criticism (I had an elder tell me privately that what I was doing, attending college, was against scriptures, for example...), injustices (I had privileges taken away from me for no reason and given to more "junior" brothers, with no explanation), etc... I'm sure these, and other tests and humiliations were all tests of my humility, but I couldn't get over how damaging they were. In the end I guess I wasn't so humble after all. Keep up the good work Bill. -David in CA

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
13:17:44
Comments

September 15, 2002 Watchtower Magazine Speaks Out On Apostasy *** --- The following quotes are taken from the September 15, 2002 edition of The Watchtower, pages 16-18: *** From these quotes, we can see the Watchtower Society is at War with the "Silentlambs" Movement! *** "In the first century, such individuals as Hymanaeus, Alexander, and Philetus, were advocating ideas that did not fit "the pattern of healthful words." (1 Timothy 1:18-20; 2 Timothy 2:16,17) How could the early Christians avoid being led astray by apostates? By carefully studying the inspired writings and applying them in life. Those walking in accord with the example they had in Paul and other faithful ones were able to recognize and reject anything that did not conform to the pattern of truth they had been taught. (Philippians 3:17; Hebrews 5:14) Instead of being "mentally diseased over questionings and debates about words," they continued moving ahead in their positive course of godly devotion. (1 Timothy 6:3-6) We do the same thing when we keep on putting into practice the truths we have learned..." *** The following quote is definitely directed to the "Silentlamb Movement" *** ..."Satan tries to break our integrity through the sowing of doubts about what we have been taught. Today, as in the first century,apostates and others seek to destroy the faith of guileless ones. (Galatians 2:4; 5:7, 8) SOMETIMES THEY HAVE USED THE MEDIA TO SPREAD DISTORTED INFORMATION OR EVEN OUTRIGHT LIES ABOUT THE METHODS AND MOTIVES of Jehovah's Witnesses..." *** "...Whatever stumbling blocks were involved, some evidently preferred falsehoods over the truths of God's Word. Soon they stopped practicing the things they had learned, and this was to their own spiritual detriment. - 2 Peter 3:15, 16" *** "We can avoid turning aside to false stories today if we scrutinize and are selective about what we listen to and what we read..."And modern-day apostates keep on trying to sow seeds of doubt in order to subvert the faith of Christians...So we need to be careful." *** "...If our ears are inclined towards disgruntled ones, we need to analyze ourselves prayerfully. (Psalm 139:23, 24) Are we inclined to find fault with Jehovah's people? If so, why?..." *** "Rather than being critical, let us maintain a spiritually healthy view of the information received through personal study and congregation meetings. (1 Corinthians 2:14, 15) AND INSTEAD OF QUESTIONING GOD'S WORD, how much wiser it is to have the attitude of the first-century Bereans who examined the Scriptures closely! (Acts 17:10,11) Then, let us act on what we learn, turning down false stories and clinging to the truth."--- http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=33712&site=3

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
13:59:27
Comments

To DA on the Battered Lambs section - no you did not bore me - your story was heartbreaking. My mother too was/is a staunch JW and I observed her for many years being SOOO NICE to people at the congregation (my father was not a JW so the elders never had to bother to side with him). Her act was so convincing people used to come up to me and say "your mother is SOOO nice isn't she". She was actually an extremely cruel women, so cruel it hurt - she used to whack my brothers and I, except my middle brother who was her favorite and she would even buy him "special" food and I remember at Sunday lunch she would give all the best meat to him rather than to my father (who had gone to work all week to pay for it - my mother didn't work). Worse than any whacking though were her spiteful, hurtful words - she would stab you in the back with that malicious tongue of hers. I spent years and years trying to please her, buying her things, helping her, anything just to make her like me - but when I got to 31 and my father died I decided, no more. It was the best thing I ever did. What is ironic (and I KNEW this would happen) is that now she has got to be an old lady her precious favorite son (who is still a JW) does not bother to be a good son and I (disfellowshipped for marrying a "worldly" wonderful, considerate, kind man whom I have been with for 15 years)am the one who has suddenly become such "a wonderful daughter" etc which is of course utter bullsh** because she never had a good word to say about me as I was growing up. I remember once my brothers were bullying me - they made me sit on a stool so I couldn't move and then they walked round and round me chanting things and spitting on me. My mother was ironing at the time and I called to her and begged her to stop them but she said nothing and had a smirk on her face - she was actually ENJOYING seeing me bullied. No doubt I will be the one to look after her in her old age - not her JW sons - because I believe we have that duty etc. There are so many JWs living a double life it is unbelievable - pretending to be Christian when in fact as soon as they get behind their own front doors they are nasty, spiteful and unkind people.

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
14:04:57
Comments

Interesting info in that WT. The sad part is that MOST JW's are going to buy into that. When the Dateline program first aired, I talked to a friend (JW) about it only because I knew she had watched it. She asked me,” You don't think we are brainwashed do you? I have always talked against people who are brainwashed, i.e. Jim Jones followers, etc. but that question has kept coming back in my mind for the past two months and I have to conclude that we are brainwashed. It is so subtle that we don't even realize that the WTS has had complete control over our lives. This is especially true for those of us who tried to do EXACTLY what the WTS directed. We have no recourse if we disagree with anything or question. They have effectively taken away our freedom of speech which is supposed to be one of the wonderful things about living in the US. Does anyone know of any active JW's who are going to the march.? I just emailed the NY mayor. Thanks to whoever suggested that. Trying to get local NY people involved seems like an excellent idea. Jazbug55@aol.com

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
17:05:30
Comments

Sept.15/2002 Watchtower pg 16-18 that was quoted __ "And modern-day apostates keep on trying to sow seeds of doubt in order to subvert the faith of Christians..." ___ Try all you can writer of this article, but remember "FEAR FADES WHEN FACTS ARE FACED".

Remote User:
Date:
03 Aug 2002
Time:
20:25:02
Comments

Regarding = Thanks to whoever suggested that. Trying to get local NY people involved seems like an excellent idea. Jazbug55@aol.com ... Jazbug you are quit welcome, I hoped that someone would think it a good idea! I haven't as yet emailed, I want to write the exact right thing in order to 'really be heard' That for me is going to take some thought and prayer. I was also looking for Senator H.R. Clinton's email, I thought that she would be the exact one to 'get one the band wagon' regarding this. With the now pres's wife all for child education, I thought that Mrs. Clinton would like to 'put her two cents in'! couldn't hurt. My ONLY doubts about the NY route is I am sure that the Org has a lot of pull in that area, considering they have a lot of money there! Maybe someone can come up with a perfect email/letter, that can be altered to be personal yet still get the same message across. I'm all for Help here! bonnielynn

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
08:06:38
Comments

Denial + projection + peer pressure + name dropping (Stark) = JW brainwashing success and its ensuing disastrous consequences for families and children

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
08:10:07
Comments

Regarding the Watchtower quote about 'clinging to the truth'. Shouldn't that read 'hanging on for dear life and with bleeding raw fingertips to the 'TROOF''?...Hey! Let Go! It's only God out there ready to catch you!

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
09:44:22
Comments

..."And modern-day apostates keep on trying to sow seeds of doubt in order to subvert the faith of Christians.. PHOOEY No one here is trying to subvert the faith in Jesus or in the FATHER so who's faith are they talking about, faith in an Org that is revamping a community to hold enough slaves for another 10 years! Why aren't they 'waiting on Jehovah before building? I heard a story once, three different preachers, one was bragging 'my church raked in, for GOD, $10,000 this month! another one bragged my church raked, in for GOD, $20,000 this month! The third one said "Well, throw all the money up in the air and see how much of it GOD keeps!

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
10:34:04
Comments

RE: Denial + projection + peer pressure + name dropping (Stark) = JW brainwashing success and its ensuing disastrous consequences for families and children ... Keep sending letter or emails of protest: Dr Rodney Stark . socstark@aol.com . . . Also to the Sociology Dept Head ..Dr Bob Crutchfield . . . crutch@u.washington.edu Dr Crutchfield shows a willingness to look at SUBSTANTIATED claims about Dr Stark. Substantiate them by using press articles, JW-Media site on disfellowshipping FAQ, Kingdom Ministry for August , BBC articles, newspaper reports of Bill Bowen's disfellowshipping

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
10:53:21
Comments

Every time someone disagrees with The Watchtower they say your an Apostate. Well i can accept that. Apostate to them, only. God loves you regardless of the label they paint you with. I was looking at the Reasoning from the Scriptures book, on why witnesses don't carry on the Sabbath p345-52 and on page 349 it implies the ten commandments are to be done away with. On page 348 when asking about the greatest commandments of the LAW Jesus comment included was Love thy Neighbor as yourself. Obviously they haven't used this with their dealings with the victims as shown on panorama, and dateline. Also if the sabbath is done away with, why not the 2 witness doctrine, it doesn't make sense to me. The Bible says you will know if you are in the right church by the Love in the Congregation. I never found much love but only false affection. Truly as said in the Book of Thomas, "But Jesus looked upon Zacchaus the teacher and saith unto him: Thou that knowest not the Alpha according to its nature, how canst thou teach others the Beta? thou hypocrite, first, if thou knowest it, teach the Alpha, and then will we believe thee concerning the Beta." They mish mash scriptures so much to fit arguments they have, they know not the spirit of the books they're reading. What would Jesus do if he went into the Kingdom Hall and found them covering up the Abuse of children? I imagine, their would be smashing up of Chairs, and a commotion, and a few witnesses would politely throw him out! This reminds me of the scripture, Lord did we not Prophesy in your Name, Get away from me you workers of Lawlessness! Fortunately I'm no longer attending the indoctrination of this movement, and I've found God and Jesus in my own way, which may not suit everyone, but he Bible says its a relationship between you and the father, not the Watchtower. So now they've disassociated Bill Bowen, and you want to appeal, I don't understand that. The organization is corrupt, and ungodlike, leave it and be thankful. You know God more than they do, or they wouldn't be in such a mess. The only way for you to change the organization now is if you were to become a governing body member. Remember, absolute power corrupts absolutely. We are in times like that of Noah, and the only ark is Jesus, not the Watchtower!

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
11:22:24
Comments

I took a few seconds to check my exhaustive concordance of the Bible, to see how many times the words organization or organized was in the Bible. The answer is zero. So why does it appear so often in the Society's publications? If the honest hearted ones in the Watchtower movement were given the permission to read the Bible for a month(and set the other material aside, it would still be there for them later)they may find that they are reading different teachings. Right now though the Society has got people so busy with their publications meetings and agenda, that honest hearted ones don't have even the time to do serious study of the scriptures. It is the "so busy mopping up the floor that you don't have time to turn off the tap" syndrome. And it results in a kind of reading the TV guide instead of watching the actual show type of understanding. The publications do not equal the scriptures.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
14:59:14
Comments

To Bonnielynn: I keep forgetting about the power and influence the WTS would have in NY and elsewhere for that matter. That position is even new to me since they have always spoke against Christendom and all of its riches and power. I guess they decided if you can't beat 'em, may as well join 'em. It will be interesting if we hear anything from the mayor. Jazbug55

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
18:27:41
Comments

Example of the fine "witness" being given. http://www.jwzone.org/forums/showthread.php?postid=124076#post124076 Y'all truly do make me ill. What are you really doing to protect the children? Are you actually "sigh[ing] and groan[ing] over all the abominations" or are you just whining and complaining? It seems to be the later to me. No wonder Jehovah starts with his house first when bringing much deserved destruction. "So they started with the elders who were before the temple." (Ezekiel 9:4,6) Too bad!

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
18:58:09
Comments

Revelations, the book of prophesies or profit for the Jehovah's Witnesses? ,,,This ambiguous book written by apostle John late in the 96th year after Jesus death was a vision of the destruction of man and his life style. Did the prophecy already occur or is it still for our lifetime? Much can be said and interpreted in any fashion to fit any or all circumstances then and now. This book is vital in keeping the membership for all Christian organizations full and with high expectations of the future. I believe that this book maintains control over all the members of Jehovah's Witnesses Organization since the founding of Russell's church.*** I can imagine in my mind all the descriptions of monsters, beast, and Angels that are described in revelation. Such vivid descriptions scare even I. John says that this revelation came by Christ to him from angels and then was presented to him. This inspiring prophecy surely is from a divine origin when it came to John and so we must all believe. We have many organizations that believe that they know all what each meaning is and parable in every chapter in Revelations. The Jehovah's Witnesses believe it will be a happy climax into a new world order and bring about a grand Theocracy in which all men will be Governed. I find after reading Revelations, that much of the prophecies describes more or less repentance before all these things written take place. I myself have fears and if I were a member of any Christian Organization, I too must repent or be destroyed. ,,,Satan takes on a dramatic role in this book, along with his cohorts from heaven. The book Revelation does effect everyone profoundly, even those of others faiths. It seems that all religions have something about the doom of mankind. This particular book in the bible gives the feeling that we glimpsed into the heavenly realm and the transcended glory of God. This book also gives the feeling that we are to be moved in some way to appreciate Gods and Jesus holiness in the Heavenly realm. A Mormon told me that this book is meant to avoid the evils of the world and to watch for Christ's rapture. I can see how one would interpret this in that way. Revelation does set standards for any those who are Christians should adhere too. Will all these wonderful prophecies be fulfilled in our lifetime or are the Jehovah's Witness Organization false prophets? *** Christian groups wait with expectation of this coming event. I was told not to ignore the counsel written in the book of Revelation or I would be unrighteous. I see that I or we obey all what is written, we too can be saved when Christ returns. *** Carl Olof describes in his book The Sign of the Last Days: “ that books that feed off the prophecies of revelation often stimulate expectations often enjoy great popularity”...So to be truly Christian, the faith in divine inspiration is crucial and is a way to acceptance to god and Christ and therefore is necessary for any one to gain salvation. I find that to be a believer we must be stirred up and exited about coming events because we may be living in the last days as described in Revelation.>>>>> However, is there truth in believing what TV evangelizers predict about our modern times? We have existed throughout history having wars and famine. What is truly being described in Revelations? I believe at the time of the writing of Revelations the congregations needed a future of hope or just fade like the others before, any religious movement previously like Gnosticism did in the 1200's soon floated away like so much smoke and so I see the Jehovah's Witnesses also. As time passed many did not see Jesus return and those that did die, died with out knowing if they missed the opportunity to see Christ return. The writer or writers new that they couldn't let Christ fade away, so they gave Christ a sense of being forever, in a future were one couldn't interpret clearly the book of revelations and or know exactly the day or the hour of his return. Even modern day religions know this and use all the chapters to fit their needs, especially the JW Organization. It would be better to read Nostradamus because his writing is no clearer than Revelations. I heard people have more faith in Nostradamus than the book of Revelations, but the fact remains, they are both vague. *** Blind faith in what is to come will be the downfall of all religions in our future mostly the doom seers who keep telling us that the destruction of mankind is upon us. Why is it when I read Revelations I do not get the same answer as do these other religious preachers? I was told by a member of the Jehovah's Witnesses that I have very little faith and I don't have as much Holy Spirit as they do. I asked "how does one know how much Holy Spirit one can have, either you have some or none I said. Is there a degree of Holy Spirit one must have to interpret the scriptures?" No answer. I believe this to be true for all religions that ignorance is bliss. *** In Conclusion, I would rather see humanity rid them of this mental pestilence. My research has lead me to believe that religion has done more harm than good. Revelation is nothing more than a tool to keep people who want to believe in something in control, so as not to question their religious authority in the hierarchy of their religious ranks. Revelations was nothing more than a prank to keep unity among the early religious congregations because of all the early opposition. If Paul did write Revelation it because he had foresight enough to realize that the early seven congregations would eventually split without some sort of hope, so to keep the unity and advance the cause of Christ peace keeping efforts he wrote the book of Revelations off a dream that scared him; however, our modern times has brought about cults and splinter Christian religions that use this information to scare, beguile and mesmerize the weak minded into believing what they say is true causing the issue of neglect and abuse we see on TV from the Roman Church and the JW Organization among others. ***Clear headed reading from the beginning of the Bible to the end one can see the story being told about human thought and history for the last several thousands years. Don't be afraid to read for yourself, i promise no one will burn you at the stake today. Tomorrow is another story...afraid in Sacramento

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:50:33
Comments

From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Sun, 4 Aug 2002 19:41:45 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Local Paper --- Witnesses expelled Bill Bowen --- By Johnnie Davis Tribune Courier Staff Writer Wednesday, July 31, 2002 --- Former elder of the Draffenville congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, William H. Bowen, received notification Thursday morning that he had been disfellowshipped. Bowen resigned his position in December of 2000 as a way to protest the handling of child molestation cases by the church. Three elders from congregations outside of Marshall County made up the panel that decided to disfellowship Bowen. They were Jeff Steen and George Bandarra of Murray and Ron Cary of Central City. Bowen has accused the church of protecting pedophiles by not reporting cases of child abuse brought before it. Church leaders deny wrongdoing and claim to follow the law. “My purpose in doing this is to protect the children in the Jehovah's Witness community,” Bowen said in an interview Friday. “The children who come forth should be praised as heroes, not ostracized and treated as villains.” Bowen said he will appeal, which must be done within seven days of the disfellowship. The appeal was to be made on Monday. The panel's decision is not final until it is announced to the congregation Thursday. Bowen said he anticipates the appeal committee to make it decision Friday. Bowen was to make his appeal before the three original panel members and three members of the appeal committee. Disfellowship is the harshest of decisions made by Witnesses. It results in the person being shunned by Witnesses including members of his own family. “Religion is protected by the First Amendment, “ Bowen said. “The religion will laugh at the courts if I try to pursue this legally.” Neither Bowen's attorney, Rush Hunt of Madisonville, nor members of the disfellowship panel could be reached for comment. “It is the policy of the Watchtower to silence people by disfellowship, they want people silenced.” The “Watchtower” is a Jehovah's Witness organization. Bowen has started a support group for abuse victims at www.silentlambs.org.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:52:58
Comments

This was TOO GOOD, whoever is writing these VERY HUMOROUS but Oh So True WORDS OF WISDOM. /SLC --- "It is the "so busy mopping up the floor that you don't have time to turn off the tap" syndrome. And it results in a kind of reading the TV guide instead of watching the actual show type of understanding." (Funny!)

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:53:25
Comments

" I guess they decided if you can't beat 'em, may as well join 'em. Jazzbug" --- Funny you should say that, Jazz. I'd been thinking the same thing. I even read somewhere how the WTS is trying to be more "mainstream," getting on "good side" of the "world," (UN example for one). - Well, covering up pedophiles sure won't win them any fans. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:54:09
Comments

" Well, throw all the money up in the air and see how much of it GOD keeps!" --- :-) Funny! Let's revamp it a little: "Well, throw all the money up in the air and see how much of it the WTS LAWYERS keep." ;-) /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:54:42
Comments

" Hey! Let Go! It's only God out there ready to catch you!" -- Now THAT's a GREAT REMINDER! Thanks! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:55:12
Comments

" FEAR FADES WHEN FACTS ARE FACED". -- Hey, thanks for that quote! As a collector of quotes, somehow I never saw that one before! I like it! My "fear" is slowing fading, and I'm ever so thankful. That quote is so true, and I really like it! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:56:52
Comments

" Trying to get local NY people involved seems like an excellent idea."--- Hi Bonnielynn & Jazzbug: Got any idea how we can notify all NY cabbies ASAP so they can start talking up the WT pedophile issue and the SL March, telling their fares about it? (You can imagine how many people cabbies talk to everyday!) Just a thought. /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
19:58:32
Comments

9-15-02 WT: "SOMETIMES THEY HAVE USED THE MEDIA TO SPREAD DISTORTED INFORMATION OR EVEN OUTRIGHT LIES ABOUT THE METHODS AND MOTIVES of Jehovah's Witnesses.." --- How timely, too, knowing this mag will be distributed to the public before the SL March on 9/27! I bet all the Bethelites will be sent out in droves, probably on a big magazine campaign in the NY area! What creeps, working hard at their damage control. HOW can the current JWs BUY INTO this? I wonder how many of them sitting in their homes reading their WT BELIEVES WHAT THEY ARE READING about this HUGE "HINT HINT" NOT to believe the "Media" a/k/a Silent Lambs? Arrrggghhh! This really gets me bent. My heart was willing to give the WTS some leeway to come clean, but they just keep digging their heels in deeper and deeper. Such a Shame for a group I once loved dearly... /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:00:46
Comments

Thanks for all the senate email addy's and that of the mayor, too. I haven't worked up a good "form letter" yet either, but I agree we should probably keep it brief but adding media links/articles, etc. is a good idea, too. It's just so hard to get it all organized for sending. If anyone beats me to it, please do share. Thanks! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:03:14
Comments

" We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967 p.591 --- I wonder if what they meant to say was CHANNELING as in this dictionary's definition: "9. The medium through which a spirit guide purportedly communicates with the physical world." -- Food for thought, eh? /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:05:06
Comments

" ...funny how the mind works." --- So True Claudine, So True, in more ways than one. And what is even more funny is how the "mind of the WTS" works! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:07:42
Comments

Hey Claudine, glad you are feeling better. You wrote, "I have never heard from Stark- maybe he is on vacation." --- Hey, MAYBE, just MAYBE he is busy looking into what the society has done with his quotes. Maybe not, though, if they paid him enough for it. Oh well, just a thought that he may have taken your emails very seriously! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:13:52
Comments

TAKE HEART ALL THOSE ACCUSED or DF'd for SPEAKING UP! I saw this encouraging post on another forum. GOOD SCRIPTURAL EXAMPLE. /SLC --- "It is true that David said that he would not strike Jehovah's anointed, but this did not prevent him from TALKING TO MANY PEOPLE ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED and WARNING THEM that Saul was out to get him and them. In 1 Samuel 19:18 David TELLS Samuel what Saul had done, at 1 Samuel 20:1, he DISCUSSES IT with Jonathan. 1 Samuel 22: 1,2 apparently MANY PEOPLE HEARD ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED TO DAVID AND JOINED HIM. From the context of 1 Samuel 22: 13 Saul accused David and the people of conspiring against him. In 1 Samuel 24: 12-16, David ACTUALLY SAYS to Saul THAT HE IS GUILTY and that JEHOVAH WILL JUDGE BETWEEN THEM. When JWs speak out in protest against what is happening are they not doing the same thing? Have any of them taken God's judgment into their own hands to harm any Jehovah's Witnesses? Even though the WT seems to think there is a conspiracy against them, most everything that is spoken in regard to the WT is true and they have not been slandered. Even if they are not the Anointed of God, they have been accorded respect by the majority of XJWs. They just do not like the truth to be told about all of their past shortcomings. They want to be seen as God's Organization that cannot be spoken against."

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:16:25
Comments

REMEMBER THE SONG, "BE LIKE JEREMIAH"? Well, let's really take this to heart also! (Seen at another forum). /SLC --- "Jeremiah was a role model for STANDING APART FROM 'THE ORGANIZATION.' By the WTS's standards, Jeremiah was essentially disfellowshipped for 'apostasy' for speaking out against Israel's leadership. They even sought to kill him to silence him, did they not? Yet, Jehovah warned through Jeremiah that Israel's prophets were false prophets. Presumably, if they had heeded Jeremiah instead of "the organization", their temple would not have been destroyed and they would not have gone into Babylonian captivity."

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:24:20
Comments

Thanks Sheila for the People magazine letter and for sharing it with us! --- Welcome to Raquel VanRiper-raquelmoon58@hotmail.com, I'm jealous! Wish I was going to the march! I looked up fares at Amtrak, not that bad, but it would take 20 hours in a coach seat to get there. Misery. Been There, Done That before, and it was miserable then, too, as bad as riding a Greyhound bus! (And would you believe Amtrak charges $890 for a sleeper? No wonder they are going broke!) --- Thanks for the info from Children's Health Business/Children's HealthWatch Organization/Carol 775 885-2743. --- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:25:10
Comments

Hey BLM! That was great info you posted before, Thanks! /SLC <http://www.ageofconsent.com/comments/numbertwentythree.htm> And what is a pedophile?

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:28:40
Comments

Thanks bjc2 for the email addy for the author of THE REPORT! Appreciate it, and for all the info you posted from it. It all sounds very plausible to me! (Did I say thanks already? I am behind in replying to posts, and getting confused of what I did/didn't do yet! ;) /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:32:17
Comments

BLM wrote: "SLC = it's me bonnielynn, I've been posting and not leaving my name..." --- Hey Bonnielynn: I should be able to recognize your posts by now, with or without a sig! ;) Smile! Thanks for Bush & Cheney addresses, too! I haven't been able to devote much time to the Guestbook/SL lately. I need to write one simple email and then zap it to all the addresses which have been provided to SL! Hope everyone else is hanging in there! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:36:59
Comments

Wendy! So brief yet so poignant! We know how you feel. /SLC --- "i want to weep...and help..wendy" --- And Anne E mail: woodhouse_a@hotmail.com, who wrote, "I feel very upset about the whole issue." --- Thanks for sharing! It's a brutal realization for those who had not a clue, as I didn't, yet did. As Claudine wrote, "Funny how the mind works." Love/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:38:37
Comments

Buster, thanks for the laugh! You wrote to Fuzz I think it was: "I can't tell you how much I'm looking forward to it. - Buster" - LOL! /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:42:14
Comments

Welcome to: Julie Villagomez My email is Juliej316! -- /SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:47:46
Comments

Claudine! Your post about your stressful week really hit home. DITTO HERE! And your heartfelt description of feeling lost, etc. Also DITTO to that! But it's getting a little better, as far as feeling like a Fish Out Of Water. I'm too pooped to give your post the reply it deserves (notice I've been making very short replies tonight). For now just let me say, if you have time and haven't already done so, please check out: <http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi> & Questions for the forum if you have any, email to: <cc-questions@channelc.org> -- There are some very good threads there, good food for thought that should help the "lost" feeling. Hang in there lady! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:52:50
Comments

Remember that great scripture in Isaiah 10:1,2 previously posted? Here is some research on that done by another person, but I thought it was interesting. /SLC --- NASB Isaiah 10:1,2: Assyria Is God's Instrument --- 1 Woe to those who (1) enact evil statutes And to those who constantly record unjust decisions, 2 So as (2) to deprive the needy of justice And rob the poor of My people of their rights, So (3) that widows may be their spoil And that they may plunder the orphans. --- Footnote (2) points to Isaiah 5: 23 (1) Who justify the wicked for a bribe, And take away the rights of the ones who are in the right! --- Footnote (3) points to Isaiah 1: 23 Your rulers are rebels And companions of thieves; Everyone loves a bribe And chases after rewards. They do not defend the orphan, Nor does the widow's plea come before them. --- and Isaiah 3: 14 The LORD enters into judgment with the elders and princes of His people, "It is you who have devoured the vineyard; The plunder of the poor is in your houses. 15 "What do you mean by crushing My people And grinding the face of the poor?" Declares the Lord GOD of hosts.

Remote User:
Date:
04 Aug 2002
Time:
20:57:21
Comments

SOMEONE WROTE: ""Make haste to identify the visible theocratic organization of God that represents his king, Jesus Christ. It is essential for life. Doing so, be complete in accepting its every aspect." The Watchtower October 1, 1967 p. 591 (Talk about loaded sentences. It is these type of incredible and dangerous claims that make an organization shy about admitting that mistakes can happen.)(Is the organization "essential for life"? Not as far as the bible is concerned.) --- You may appreciate this following comment from another forum (Channel C) since it describes what you are feeling/saying. /SLC --- QUOTE: "Re: All the studying has been done for you --- You have developed what my mom and I like to call the "Third Eye." That's being able to read the WT literature, which may appear to be scriptural and logical, but in reality is sinister and manipulative. You've also seen what the true motive is behind this propaganda: to keep the followers in line, being dependent on the GB for everything. "Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit." (Mt 15:14)"

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
00:20:34
Comments

Hi again, Thanks Jazzbug for the post showing pedophiles choose what they do. I agree it is evil. There is just no other way to put it...Once they cross that line and practice their deviant behavior they never cross back. You can't give them a conscience when it is not there. Pedophiles have a major holes in their conscience. How can you give them empathy or a conscience in this? In my experience you can't... I want Bill and the others to keep fighting the disfellowshipping. They have followed the Apostle Paul in talking about and exposing criminal behavior in the congregation and trying their best to protect the flock. Jehovah will not forget the your works or the love you showed. It is going around the world and exposing this for all to see. This could only be with Jehovah's blessing... This web site is working in harmony with Luke 8:17 "THERE IS NOTHING HIDDEN THAT WILL NOT BECOME MANIFEST, NEITHER ANYTHING CAREFULLY CONCEALED THAT WILL NEVER BECOME KNOWN AND NEVER COME INTO THE OPEN." ... Later in Luke 12: 1,2 Jesus says to "watch out for the leaven of the Pharisees which is hypocrisy" then in verse 2 " BUT THERE IS NOTHING CAREFULLY CONCEALED THAT WILL NOT BE REVEALED, AND SECRET THAT WILL NOT BECOME KNOWN." In verse 3 "WHEREFORE WHAT THINGS YOU SAY IN DARKNESS WILL BE HEARD IN THE LIGHT AND WHAT YOU WHISPER IN PRIVATE ROOMS WILL BE PREACHED FROM THE HOUSETOPS." Isn't this happening now with the two TV programs aired all over North America and Europe?... In Luke 12:45-48 I recommend everyone read. It describes the faithful and discreet slave and that some would become unfaithful and when the master arrives he will punish them according to there works. Notice the wording. In verse 45 and 46 it says if ever that slave should say...The unfaithful slave comes from the faithful slave. I encourage everyone to read and notice the wording. Notice in later verses how the Master Jesus will punish them! In verse 45 their actions identify who they are. Notice at the end of verse 48 it says "INDEED EVERYONE TO WHOM MUCH WAS GIVEN MUCH WILL BE DEMANDED OF HIM AND THE ONE WHOM PEOPLE PUT IN CHARGE OF MUCH THEY WILL DEMAND MORE THEN THE USUAL OF HIM." The Governing Body will have to render an account for all their actions... I am very glad that everything is coming out in the open and being exposed as the scriptures say would happen eventually...DJB

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
00:22:08
Comments

SLC: Sorry to hear you are down too. We need Bonnielynn to tell us a funny story I think. I do go to "C" Channel everyday and jehovahs-witness.com - both have some very good posts. Love, Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
10:32:09
Comments

If their Christian love is really so touched by the inner difficulties of pedophiles, why don't they take up 'prison ministry'? Where they could have access to lots of pedophiles and no one would be trying to hide it nor allowing them continued access to victims?...big heart, small balls? Put your money (and your time and your reputation) where your mouth is.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
12:23:37
Comments

Why these lies about Jehovah's witnesses? I know they don't let children die.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
13:07:23
Comments

Would someone please give me a little info on The Report? What is that, a website, newsletter, what? If there's a link to check it out, please give it to me. Thanks! Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
13:47:37
Comments

If anyone is interested in reading the Bible, they will discover that the words love, loving etc. are used more than 10 to 1 in the Scriptures over the words preach, preaching etc. Even if you have a magazine that teaches the truths of the bible(which the Watchtower material does not) you can still put emphasis on things that a group wants to make a priority that may not be given the same weight in the bible. Please note all that do not share this view. In Acts 17:11 says that the Bereans..."examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." What do you think the Bereans would say if they were presented with a Watchtower magazine instead to see if what Paul was saying was true? Give it some thought. We all have to get back to the scriptures in their pure form instead of the big mass publishing machines "book of the month club". Take care everyone.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
14:28:19
Comments

To Claudine, and all of you.-Words of inspiration...Artist-"Jewel" Album-"Spirit"-Song-"Life Uncommon" (Play it often...Play it loud!)- SEQUIA

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
14:49:19
Comments

My wife and I are Christians, though she and her five sisters were raised in a strict Jehovah's Witness family. I feel sorry for all of them, because they are such good people, but are trapped. I tried talking with them about the freedom Christ gives us. They are so closed-minded. They think anything not from the Watchtower Organization is from Satan and all other religions are from Satan. I think it is the other way around! I feel sorry for these kids who get abused and are forced to keep silent. I hope the whole organization will get exposed in the light and many kids will be saved from this torment. I have the book, "Reasoning from the Scriptures with Jehovah's Witnesses", and love it. I hope I can slowly "chip away" the "authority of the Watchtower Society" with my in-laws. It will be very tough without them shunning our family. Keep up the good work! and please keep me informed on the latest dealings in regards to the Jehovah's Witnesses: court cases, child molesters uncovered, etc.. my e-mail is rby05371@yahoo.com

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
15:35:25
Comments

An anonymous poster ( Aug 4 @ 10:53:21) commented ***So now they've disassociated Bill Bowen, and you want to appeal, I don't understand that. The organization is corrupt, and ungodlike, leave it and be thankful. *** sometimes a legal case is fought not with winning a favorable verdict as the goal. A legal case before a corrupt judge exposes the corruption of the so called legal system itself. Bill went into the so-called judicial system knowing that a favorable verdict would not be handed down.He has to carry the case to the complete and final end. That way the WTS will be exposed before the world as a fake judicial system. The world is watching. The world sees the corruption. The WTS has to be exposed as not only the abuser of women and children but also the abuser of anyone who tries to protect them. Bill can not walk away from this. No he does not hold out hope that he can change the WTS by his appeal. His is only one voice in the wilderness crying out for justice. More voices will join in until there is a great roar that the world will pay attention to. *** The WTS claims to be the channel of communication from God. It sets itself in the temple of God, claiming to be the Faithful & Discreet Slave, the anointed of God, with power and authority to judge the nation of God. Actually the Governing Body sets itself up as a god demanding unwavering obedience from the nation of Jehovah's Witnesses. Isn't this what is said about the "man of lawlessness" at 2 Thessalonians chapter 2? All this time they told us that it was the clergy of Christendom. Maybe they needed to look in the mirror? Well, it looks like they are being "revealed" for who and what they are. *** that dear anonymous one is why a person would go thru the whole DFing process. *** Hi to the rest of yas. I have been real busy lately. A reporter from the St Petersburg Times is doing two articles here locally. She could not find an abused child to interview so she is doing the article on what happens to those who speak out. She has been in touch with Bill. She interviewed me. She wanted my picture. I said no ( nobody wants to see my face in the paper especially me) The other article is about the whole disfellowshipping thing and how it can tear families apart. She has interviewed several disfellowshipped people from this area. So things are rolling right along. *** Love Y'all, Loris

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
16:04:09
Comments

*** The mole *** Since the watchtower organization is frankly out to establish a new world society, or a world wide organization under the rule of the watchtower theocracy, it cannot afford to be a charitable organization. it has to its credit no bona fide charitable works, which it at best considers maudlin sentimentality. They usually justify this by misusing the lords statement, "let the dead bury the dead", or they denounce the organized charitable works of Christendom as hypocrisy on par with the works of the pharisees which the lord condemned, and use the lord's dictum against vain display of good works. In thus upbraiding Christendom for its organized charities, they cleverly threw up a smokescreen to divert attention from the complete lack of charitable works by their so called Christian organization.. Yet wonder of wonders, they do insist that they practice charity! Why is it when going door to door pushing their magazines can be considered a charitable work? Home bible studies a charitable work? These people spend hours devoted in discussion of what they contend to be charitable works. They eagerly expect to be rewarded openly by getting appointments as servants, or get a good standing in the congregation and with the society...now the real truth has come out on some of the abuses that we as member see on a frequent basis, especially those who in dire need of help are told to seek out government assistance, only the new recruits get all the fondling and praises, those cast aside and not fitting into their groups are the ones removed for petty sins..charity starts within the Kingdom Halls and so far none has been seen, only those with masks on come inside to hurt and injure the innocent being welcomed so dearly from the those in power...the mole

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
16:17:54
Comments

LINDA T.: EMCPUBLICATIONS@YAHOO.COM - is where you can find information about the REPORT - I copied the post from SL on 8/2 - there are three posts very long from the Report. But I have only glanced at it. I am extremely wary of prophecy interpretations - I wonder why... *** Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
16:56:06
Comments

Thanks Claudine...but can you verify the addy for me? I tried it and got nothing. Linda T.

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
19:38:44
Comments

For an interesting article on JW shunning: http://www.xjw.com/shunning.html

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
21:16:04
Comments

FBI Tips and Public Leads <<< https://www.ifccfbi.gov/complaint/terrorist.asp ….. While the FBI continues to encourage the public to submit information regarding the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, !this form may also be used to report any suspected criminal activity to the FBI.! Does anyone here think that the media statements that the reps of the Org made stating that they allow ‘known pedophiles' to go door-to-door are also admitting to a criminal act? I am not a lawyer but common sense tells me that if ANYONE knowingly sends a known pedophile to people's homes they are potentially putting people, and their children in danger! They have to be guilty of a crime! In for a penny, in for a pound! What do you think? BLM

Remote User:
Date:
05 Aug 2002
Time:
22:56:54
Comments

LINDA T. - there were 3 posts, on August 2 - three very very long ones quoting the Report. The address and email address is there. I'm sorry it was an email address - not a web site. I didn't realize it was an email address - sorry. Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
00:27:15
Comments

Thank you Loris and DJB for your great words from the Bible! And I totally agree with you Loris about Bill's Mission and the purpose of it. Can't wait to read the articles.==What are the elders going to do with you? LOL *** Thank you Sequia for the music recommendation. I love music. Don't have a CD player - need to get one. I just bought a $10 phonograph (kind of out dated) so I could play Victoria de Los Angeles - opera - gorgeous, passionate music. TO:(((((((((((the mole))))) now when are you going to get out of the mess you are in? You would feel a lot better if you left,and spent the time with your grandmother. How is she doing? Any more fallout from the letter you wrote to the family or has anyone started to dialogue with you in a positive way?The 6 million in a world of 6 Billion is a drop in the bucket and the WTS is uncharitable, and will remain that way. It can't get more so than shunning or DFing good people. They will never be a great religion - sorry to say. All of us feel let down - can you image how Jehovah and Jesus feel? JW 's don't have time to help people in this system of things because they think it undermines the new system of things. Any help with food or money is temporary and the permanent solution is in New System. They feed people the new system - it is a wonderful hope, I have to admit. It has kept me going thru very difficult times. I still believe in the new system, but the WTS does not know the way and I can't follow them! I don't think they will be there. And it might not be around the next corner! Love, Claudine

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
10:09:05
Comments

Thank you so much for all of the hard work that goes into this site and in trying to give a voice to those who have been victims and need an advocate for change. Ernie Branson LaVergne, TN

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
11:11:26
Comments

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
11:50:12
Comments

Hey all...Does anyone know where I can find information I've heard circulating that the JW's are predicting Armageddon to come in 2005? If anyone knows, please email me with it, my son is asking LOTS of questions now. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
11:50:16
Comments

Hey all...Does anyone know where I can find information I've heard circulating that the JW's are predicting Armageddon to come in 2005? If anyone knows, please email me with it, my son is asking LOTS of questions now. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
11:55:56
Comments

Sounds to me like many here owe a debt of gratitude to JW's Everybody is using the name Jehovah, who showed you that, a Baptist? Many by their own admission believe in a paradise earth as clearly taught in the bible. Who showed you that, a Catholic? Still others acknowledge being shown the truth about what happens when we die. Who showed you that a Methodist? Many others who have left the organization do not identify with any religion. Why? If JW's are so evil and everything else is so much better then why not become a Catholic, a Mormon, a Methodist heck why not become a Muslim or Hindu? Anything has to be better than them awful JW's. Can you believe it...why they think homosexuality is wrong imagine that! They think fornication and adultery is wrong, wow! And this is the biggest kicker, they try to live peaceful calm lives and as a whole are hard workers and sincere in what they believe. They ought to be damned for such lifestyles! Ever heard the phrase a few rotten apples will spoil the whole bunch? Well instead of picking out the rotten apple and looking for the other 99 that are good the smartest thing to do by everyone's definition in here is to ignore the other 99 and focus on the bad one. Make as big as deal as possible! (See how bad this one is, look at all the wormholes in this one, look at the uneven shape of this one, look at the lump on this one...) before long everyone is convinced that the small portion of bad apples in the basket have been so demonized that that the only logical (or illogical) thing to do is discard them all! I have mulled this all over and I can't see any wisdom in going it alone. Just as many in here have acknowledged bible truths as taught them by JW's then I feel and have complete confidence that Jehovah will take care of all things in his own way or with finality and complete justice in the end. If there is someone so corrupt in a congregation or at headquarters a sincerely believe that Jah knows that and will take care of it. But to leave the only religion whom I feel tries to live by bible standards and a lot more completely and thoroughly than any other is tantamount to walking through a wilderness with a group of people who are your only source of physical and spiritual comfort and because of a spat with a couple of people you decide that you can go it alone, so you wander off, cutoff from your source of food and eventually you die from the elements. Bottom line: I don't think that JW's are such bad people and that any other religion has the truth or even the majority of the truth that I feel the need to leave. That's just my view and I feel that if others would quit beefing over everything than they would be a heck of a lot happier than sitting in from of a computer all the time writing posts about how bad JW's are. Tell me a religion any better as far as Bible truths go and healthy lifestyles go where divorce rates are low and most families are in tact, leave out the ones that say smoking is OK, immorality and homosexuality just an alternative lifestyle, holidays although we know have pagan origins but we do it just because everybody else does... and I'll show you a very short list! Forget the imperfect ones who as I said will be dealt with in Jehovah's own way and look at the whole instead of the few and I will again show you a very short list. Can you honestly look at the whole of any one religion and say with a certainty and with what you already know about the bible, that their belief structure and accepted practices are as an organization approved by God? Am I evil if I choose to stay a JW I am confused as to what the mission of this site is. It seems to me to be getting away from its stated purpose and has become a JW bashing party.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
12:45:02
Comments

To the above JW defender: It would be easier to address you with a name or a handle. Anyway, the posters on this site show remarkable restraint and capacity to stay on subject. No one is trying to turn it into a JW bashing site. That is not to say that people don't ever add to the topic. But for the most part, this group is focused on alerting the Society so they can clean up themselves. Barring that, they are letting the rest of the community know what is going on. But to the point - you want to focus on the larger picture. OK, I can only assume that you haven't been a witness for long. Take a look at some of the older teachings. Take a look at the very foundation of your religion. Many organized religions feel that God must have a favorite child and that they must be it, none more so than the JWs. History, and those that created it are part of the big picture you refer to. The core set of beliefs are another, perhaps more significant part of the Witnesses' big picture. Did you know you belong to a religion that used to believe that God was the architect of the pyramid of Giza - because of its measurements 'prove' their timeline? ... that you belong to a religion that built a house for the returning princes of the earth (Yes, a mansion in San Diego for Moses, David - those guys)? ... that you belong to a religion has predicted Armageddon at least a dozen times, starting in the 1870's (do I need to mention that these predictions were wrong?)? Current beliefs are just as untenable - you cannot defend the literalness of the 144,000 without WatchTower articles. The logic used to deduce 1914 is absurd. I'm not talking about pointing at a few bad apples. I am talking about core beliefs - the very basis that you claim to cling to. There is no baby in the bathwater - toss it. - Buster

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
13:11:27
Comments

Your comments are true and there is too much JW bashing going on but let's face it disfellowshipping is a harsh policy that disrupts families and many individuals are extremely upset. Also to shun members for opposing child abuse cover-ups is to violate human rights. The WTBS needs to come clean and admit to the congregations what has actually happened, it needs to quit using double talk to appear factually truthful and yet cover up terrible deeds. Why am I not still if the organization? I believe what affected me the most was that it was possible to convince many members of Jehovah's Witnesses congregation to testify in behalf of a CONVICTED child molester such as Manuel Belize or Paul Berry. I began to wonder how that could be possible? What on earth type of mind control are we experiencing? If these people can be used as pawns in the WTBS game than what else will they do? After all if you can take good women, good men, wives, husbands, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers who already know that child molesting is wrong and train them to over ride their conscience what VALUE is the “spiritual education” we have been receiving? It seems if the body of elders wishes to engage in unethical behavior that is their decision, but should they intimidate others to go along with them by threats of censure for disrupting the peace of the congregation? I realized I could not longer trust the decision of the elders, and it escalated upward from there…….couldn't trust the circuit overseer, district overseer, couldn't trust the FDS. All those years spent studying the Bible; learning about God and in the end of what value was it? How did it make a difference when congregation members were required to show courage and integrity even if it meant standing up to the Organization? Our leaders will do evil and individuals will carry out their wishes. I believe that it must have been difficult for first century Christians to leave their Jewish faith, their friends, their families and the organization that had taught them the truth, but sometimes we are required to do more than just go along. Would my life be easier with my head buried in the sand and still with my JW friends, yes, it would be. Sometimes we must have courage to do the right.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
14:07:06
Comments

I simply left the JW's in 1991. I thought God hated me, however while I was mad at God, I never abandoned belief in God, just the tyrannical cult to which I belonged. I really thought it was the "truth". However in 1993 there were many cult experts on TV during the Mt. Carmel/David Koresh thing. I realized listening one day that the Jehovah's Witnesses are a certified cult! I am so glad to have left and got out relatively unscathed, however my parents are still involved and my dad is still an elder. I pray they get away from that CULT, however they are deeply committed and won't even listen to any opposing ideas. Thank God I never had to experience what these poor kids did, being molested and having it "covered up" by the JW's. Bill Bowen, keep up the good work. God is blessing your efforts! Texas Girl

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
14:16:00
Comments

This is for the JW defender as Buster called him or her. Jehovah is indeed the creator of the universe. His name stands above all other names. Because the group of Bible Students took The Name and attached it to themselves they come under a higher accountability than other religious groups. They are the ones that formed a covenant with Jehovah in 1931 to uphold that name before the entire world. *** Yes they are to be commended for revitalizing basic truths and teachings of the Bible. They have taught millions how to live by clean Bible standards. Most people associating with them try very hard to conform to those standards. No other religion can match that record. *** On the other hand they also applied the term Faithful Discreet Slave to the select few in power. This gives them the illusion that they are the direct channel to God. It gives the illusion that they can interpret prophecy with absolute accuracy. The truth of the matter is that they are 100% wrong on their interpretations. If they were in this favored position with God they would have EVERYTHING right. How many predictions of Jeremiah, Isaiah, and Daniel were wrong? 0 *** Go to any library or book store, look up the destruction of Jerusalem. An interesting archaeological discovery was made in the early ‘50's It was a collection of historical events recorded with the astrological information to establish the dates. If nothing else the Babylonians were exact time- keepers. from that the exact date of the destruction of Jerusalem can be determined. And guess what it was not 607 B.C.E. ! With that said and established the whole 607/1914 thing falls apart. Think man. Think. WW1 began in August. The WTS says that the Gentile Times ended in October. Jesus began his rule in October. Does this mean that Satan jumped the gun and started early without him? Did the Fiery Red Horse take off from the starting gate three months before the Rider on the White Horse started to ride? *** I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses “in good standing” as they say for 37 years. I have just recently began a very in-depth exploration of TRUTH. I am embarrassed to say that I did not do it sooner. But like you I was looking at the good things only. And there are very good things but the Governing Body is not one of the good things. ***Jehovah is beginning to call them to account and they are severely lacking. For that they will come under a greater punishment than us. But we are not lilly white ourselves. We supported them for years. We upheld the wrong teachings , we taught the lies to others. For that we will be punished also. To the extent that we make changes now and attempt to right the wrongs our punishment will be either less or more severe. The decision rests with each one as an individual.*** I worship Jehovah that will not change. My allegiance is not with the WTS. That has changed. *** Nuf said. As always, Love Y'all, Loris

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
15:56:54
Comments

Hi Loris, I posted the post on august 4th, forgot to put name. Its bas, care of www.antijehovahswitness.com The only thing i have to add id everyone says Jehovah this that or the other, but Jesus never knew the name. There's no J in the Jewish alphabet for a start and the name was taken up in error. So YHWH may do something about this organization or he may not. If its not his real name he's unlikely to be bothered. But as they are claiming to represent the one true gods organization and they don't, I'm sure he will do something about that! I heard Bills coming to England , UK, and would be interested in seeing it, any info bill? I really wish I'd been there at my local district convention this year with the Child abuse evidence, and the UN relationship, but alas it was not to be. I told many JWs about the abuse when i first heard of it before i left, end of 2000. No one believed me. All i got was shunned. regards bas.,

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
16:39:14
Comments

I have known many Jehovah's Witnesses over the years, and none of them are like that. A few isolated cases can't be used to judge over 6 million true Christians. I think this is an attempt to get money...nothing else.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
17:13:15
Comments

Dear JW Defender: ... In your Post you carefully described examining apples to find a bad one... For clarity would you specify which PERSON corresponds to the BAD APPLE? ... Is it the PEDOPHILE that rapes the innocent little child? OR is it the ELDERS who cover-up the crime and forgive the pedophile giving him anonymity to molest more children OR is it the CONGREGATION members who follow orders to keep quiet OR is it the CONGREGATION members who serve as character witnesses for the pedophile and against the little victim? OR is it the CIRCUIT or DISTRICT OVERSEERS who back the elders and further harass the victims to silence? OR is it the GOVERNING BODY members who ignore the mountains of letters filled with pain and suffering because of their policies? ... Which ONE is the BAD APPLE? We can clear that one out and keep the rest. Please respond.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
17:38:06
Comments

You guys are living a pipe dream. Read the bible. See how clearly Jah states time and time again what constitutes fornication, adultery, slander, loose conduct, apostasy, every sin this world is swimming in. I agreed with the person who reprimanded the JW bashers and made sense as opposed to you folks that have turned this into a JW bashing site. I wouldn't put two cents into anything anyone said that sits for hours on a computer with a bible cracked open, haphazardly plucking bible verses and giving their own explanation or spin to fit their beliefs. Not to mention that they rely heavily on Watchtower materials, as seen quoted so often on this site. Give me a BREAK already with the talk about failed bible predictions. If you read the bible, which I'm sure some of you do, you will find that many faithful men and women didn't have a full understanding of what Jah's purpose was. Some prophets were even mistaken in their predictions. What would you say to them? I challenge anyone and even your Messiah Bill Bowen himself to comment on that. Don't ask me who what when, look in the reasoning books you all have in your back pockets, or the WT CD's you so often use. Remember that it was a scientific fact that the world was flat. Did people leave when they found out it wasn't? What about the rest of the wonderful things that were here on earth? I chuckle when I see comments like Linda Thoman's “I hear that the Org is predicting Armageddon in 2005”. How about this one, “The JW Org wants to establish a new world order and subject it to its rule” (thanks mole for that golden nugget). All digs, all the time, is what this site amounts to, regardless of how you try to clarify that you're not bashing, you're just alerting the organization. So, instead of spending all your time posting, posting, posting, spend a little time understanding the bible and what Jah's requirements are for one to be a true Christian.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
18:08:11
Comments

I wanted to see the scans about the body of elders letters in the UK and US, what happened none of the links work. bas.

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
18:14:21
Comments

by the way, i don't make any money, i do it to help people find the lord. The .com sounds better than .org, or .co.uk, so there. bas

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
18:41:40
Comments

To the person who started by saying: "You guys are living a pipe dream". ___ What a fine lesson you have provided us on "bashing". Help forgive us and our "messiah Bill" for not pouring syrup all over the loving, kind, fair, always merciful "faithful and discreet slave." To those who would like to follow the fine example, lovingly provided by "The Mother Organization" click on the following: ___ http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/wtchurchattack.htm

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
19:18:12
Comments

Regarding the comment = Am I evil if I choose to stay a JW///the comment that was posted here, in the Silentlamb guest book, here where the editor has been DF'd, you have now did the ‘unthinkable' you have entered and made spiritual comments to DF'd JW's, you have ‘sat down with them' so to speak. You will now, as a ‘good and proper' JW have to go to your elders and confess that you have done what they say ‘DO NOT DO'! Now you are subject to being DF'd yourself, of course you can still sincerely repent and promise to never ‘speak' to another DF'd witness. That will keep you in I am sure! But oh, wait, you couldn't come back here and AGAIN ‘defend' an Org you have JUST sinned against! On to the next topic, As, I am sure that YOU know, the witnesses teach not celebrating certain things because of the pagan origin, yet JW's honeymoon, which was a pagan ritual of giving the groom ‘honey' beer of a ‘moon' or month after the wedding. So…… why is practicing the pagan ritual of honeymoon okay and not the others? Why is wearing a wedding ring okay when that has pagan origin? The witnesses teach that it is wrong to have pictures of GOD or Jesus hanging up in your house, yet they constantly have pictures of this nature in their mags, and books! The witnesses teach that every religion but their own are from Satan, yet they quote statements that other religious people have said, when it ‘puts them in a good light'. The witnesses have taught for years that the UN is the ‘beast' of rev. YET THEY WERE MEMBERS OF THE UN FOR YEARS! AND DO NOT EVEN SAY ‘SO THEY COULD HAVE ACCESS OF THE LIBRARY” Phooey! IF THE UN IS THE BEAST THE ORG SHOULD HAVE NEVER WANTED ACCESS OF THE UN'S LIBRARY, WHAT THEY WANT TO GET INFORMATION FROM THE BEAST? THEY WANT TO LEARN FROM THE BEAST? STEPPING FOOT INSIDE THE BEAST IS BEING PART OF THE BEAST, WHICH IS WHAT THE ORG TEACHES! ASSOCIATING WITH APOSTATES IS WRONG WITH THE ORG, YET ASSOCIATING WITH THE BEAST IS NOT? JUST HOW HYPOCRITICAL IS THAT? TEST THE SPIRITS AND IF THERE IS A BAD APPLE WITHIN THAT SPIRIT AND THAT SPIRIT IS DFING EVERYONE WHO WANTS TO GET THE BAD APPLE OUT, AND THE SPIRIT IS HIDING THE BAD APPLE BEHIND A LOOPHOLE IN CAESAR'S LAW, AND THAT BAD APPLE IS ‘HARMING ANYONE ONE OF THESE CHILDREN' THEN THE SPIRIT IS FOUND WANTING! And you ask, who started the world using the name Jehovah? The Baptist? NO< A catholic monk did! OKAY, now I ask, WHO STARTED THE BASHING OF OTHER RELIGIONS FOR HARBORING, DEFENDING AND ACCEPTING PERVERTS?!

Remote User:
Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
19:44:27
Comments

To the person who wrote: "Sounds to me like many here owe a debt of gratitude to JW's. Everybody is using the name Jehovah, who showed you that, a Baptist?" Yes thank you! Now I think that it would also appropriate if JW's and others would thank the Catholic Church Monk who 700 years ago created the Word Jehovah by combining the vowels from Lord and YHWH together to come up with name Jehovah! Did you thank that person from Christendom? What you didn't? Why not? Oh I see, he is part of Satan's Organization. Well, well, how can we use the name then? OK, lets just pretend we didn't know that then.

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