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August 2002 Guestbook - Page 2

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Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
20:33:12
Comments
Guest Book Test August 6th PM

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
20:59:11
Comments
TO Linda who asked about THE REPORT: I learned this much so far from other sources: It is (possibly) published by a group out of Florida who call themselves "Two Witnesses Must Come" (as described in Revelation). TWMC for short. They feel the JWs do fulfill Bible prophecy and that the WT will be cleaned up as Israel was cleaned up by JAH. The report supposedly has some charts comparing where TWMC agrees or doesn't agree with the society. I have not seen this report myself, just sharing what I have heard, and everyone's memory is not solid on these statements, so FWIW. Then at <http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=10732&site=3&page=3> I found this: "The Report" (1994) - ISBN 0-9649409-3-0, with direct quotes from it posted by bjc; and then Dogpatch wrote: "The 'Report' their website at www.the-report.com/overview.htm; and this same Dogpatch did a report about The Report at http://www.freeminds.org/history/report.htm none of which I have read yet. Merely FYI. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:02:26
Comments
I just got an auto-reply from Pres. Bush! Here's what it says. /SLC ---------- From: Autoresponder@WhiteHouse.GOV Date: Tue, 06 Aug 2002 21:15:56 -0500 (EST) Subject: Re: Child Safety Conference 9/24/02 --- Thank you for emailing President Bush. Your ideas and comments are very important to him. For up-to-date information about the President and his policies, please check the White House web site at www.whitehouse.gov. Unfortunately, because of the large volume of email received, the President cannot personally respond to each message. However, the White House staff considers and reports citizen ideas and concerns. Again, thank you for your email. Your interest in the work of President Bush and his administration is appreciated. Sincerely, The White House Office of E-Correspondence ____ Please Note: If the subject of your email was a request for a Presidential greeting, please note that all greeting requests must be submitted in writing to the following address: The White House Attn: Greetings Office Room 39 Washington, D.C. 20502-0039 Please review the guidelines carefully before mailing your request to the White House. The guidelines are accessible at: http://www.whitehouse.gov/greeting/

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:13:50
Comments
HERE'S THE CHILD SAFETY CONFERENCE INFO from the White House Website, FYI - /SLC ----- <http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2002/08/20020806.html> --- On September 24, the President will host the first-ever White House Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children held in conjunction with the Justice Department's Office of Juvenile Justice and Delinquency Prevention and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. --- * The all day conference, held on the campus of the George Washington University in Washington, DC, will bring together members of the President's Cabinet; federal, state and local officials; law enforcement; corporate leaders; CITIZEN EXPERTS; parents of victim children; and other leaders involved in the cause of missing, exploited and runaway children. --- * The conference will focus on a wide range of topics related to children's safety, including missing and exploited children; runaway and homeless youth; international child abduction; sex trafficking of children; child pornography; child safety and Internet safety, and corporate and community involvement. --- * For FY 2003, President Bush has proposed a 26% increase in funding for the Missing and Exploited Children's Program, which provides training for state and local enforcement on handling missing child cases ($29 million - an increase of 26% over FY 2002). The program also supports the Department of Justice's Internet Crimes Against Children Task Force (ICACTF). The President's budget request will enable the Department of Justice to double the size of the Task Force. --- The President will convene a White House Conference on Missing, Exploited and Runaway Children in September. The Conference will promote public awareness of the cause of missing, exploited and runaway children, and it will bring policy makers, experts, key officials, community leaders, teachers and law enforcement together to share progress made and generate new ideas to help prevent the victimization of children. --- * The President also announced the release of a new guidebook - "Personal Safety for Children: A Guide for Parents." The guidebook is designed to help parents take specific steps to improve the safety of their children, and it includes information that children of all ages can understand. The guidebook reflects the work of experts on child safety from the Department of Justice, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Department of Education, the FBI and the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children. It is available online in English and in Spanish at www.missingkids.com.

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:17:28
Comments
Seems to be a lot of JW Defenders posting here lately. Maybe the presses have slowed down at Bethel and the Bethelites have been ordered to work overtime on the internet. Why don't these people gives themselves a code name or handle? Very annoying when people don't give themselves a name for replies. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:19:32
Comments
Someone wrote: "I think this is an attempt to get money....nothing else." ----- If that were even REMOTELY true for sex abuse victims, then I'd have to say we have been WELL TAUGHT by our mentor, the WTBTS, who is a pro at getting money, to the tune of $951 million in 2000 (or was it 2001)? /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:20:43
Comments
Loris wrote: " Nuf said. As always, Love Ya'll, Loris" ----- And Very Well Said at that, I might add! :) /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:23:23
Comments
Someone wrote in reply to a WTS Defender: "OKAY, now I ask, WHO STARTED THE BASHING OF OTHER RELIGIONS FOR HARBORING, DEFENDING AND ACCEPTING PERVERTS?!" ----- Good point! For decades the WTS has bashed the C.Church, et al. Makes them look very bad when their own pedophile issue is exposed. Seems they forgot Jesus' words, "Let he WHO HAS NO SIN cast the first stone." Maybe they will learn not to judge from now on??? /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:31:04
Comments
To the person who wrote to the person who wrote (see what I mean about No Names???): "Sounds to me like many here owe a debt of gratitude to JW's. Everybody is using the name Jehovah, who showed you that, a Baptist?" Yes thank you! Now I think that it would also [be] appropriate if JW's and others would thank the Catholic Church Monk who 700 years ago created the Word Jehovah by combining the vowels from Lord and YHWH together to come up with name Jehovah! Did you thank that person from Christendom? What? you didn't? Why not? Oh, I see, he is part of Satan's Organization. Well, well, how can we use the name then? Ok, let's just pretend we didn't know that then. ---------------------- And, here's another one to add to the list: The society "borrowed" their 2,520 years/gentile times from a man named John Aquinas Brown (an Adventist maybe, I forget). Of course, the society didn't "own up" to this fact until it was exposed in Bro. Ray Franz' book, 'Crisis of Conscience.' It was AFTER that fact that the WTS belatedly gave credit to John Aquinas Brown in the Proclaimer's book. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:39:44
Comments
To BAS who wrote: "I heard Bill's coming to England , UK, and would be interested in seeing it, any info bill?" ---------- This info from http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi?board=Main&message=2741 .DON'T MISS THIS -- .September 13th - 15th A weekend with a difference! . Guest Speaker from Kentucky USA will be ..Bill Bowen -- Bill Bowen will explain how the Watchtower has become a safe haven for paedophiles and why it silences the abused in defence of the abuser. If you are for or against the Watchtower now is the time to speak up and ask your unanswered questions. -- Out of the Watchtower - into Christ! At Cefnlea Mid Wales retreat - September 13-15th. For more info email: "mailto:Exjw@hotmail.com" -- Exjw@hotmail.com or write: The Kingdom Publishers Journal, P O Box 98, Burnham On - Sea, Somerset, England, TA8 2BF .(Postcode essential) Mobile: 07720 863508

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:51:40
Comments
To the JW Defender who wrote: "I chuckle when I see comments like ... Armageddon in 2005”. How about this one, “The JW org wants to establish a new world order and subject it to its rule” (thanks mole for that golden nugget)." ----- Well, (a) Just Wait And See!!! when the WTS' link to the backers of the NWO is revealed, even if it is 10 years from now (like it took 10 years for their UN-connected to be exposed); and (b) I wouldn't CHUCKLE TOO MUCH 'cuz you might have to eat your BwaHaaaHaaaHaaa's before it's all over. ----- As has already been written here, it's not the individual JWs themselves, but the ORG, THE SOCIETY. A simple look at the Mountain of Evidence of THEIR OWN HISTORY clearly shows the magnitute of their erroneous ways. It's hard for a child to see the "error of their [spiritual] parents' ways..." Sadly, sooner or later even every JW will have to look at the dirty laundry, whether willingly or whether forced to face the facts. It's sad all around, but it MUST occur, as it is ALREADY occurring. LET HE WHO HAS EARS LISTEN. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:54:20
Comments
To rby who wrote: "please keep me informed on the latest dealings in regards to the Jehova's Witnesses: court cases, child molesters uncovered, etc.. my e-mail is rby05371@yahoo.com." ----- My suggestion would be to get on the Silent Lambs mailing list (see the HOME PAGE, top bars. As for other JW News & Events, check frrequently at www.jehovahs-witness.com forum. Any late-breaking JW news is always posted there as soon as it occurs. Or, check some of the xJW links and sign up for their email notices. Just a suggestion. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:56:22
Comments
Loris: That was a perfect explanation of why B.Bowen is seeking an appeal of his DF decision. I knew internally but could not have expressed it so well. Thanks. And as for the St. Pete newspaper, Good Going! Probably any child in the area was too fearful to go public in a newspaper with their story. Glad to hear things are rolling along! Love yooz guys/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
21:59:16
Comments
To whoever replied to JW Defender by asking, "For clarity would you specify which PERSON corresponds to the BAD APPLE?" and then giviing a Multiple Choice Answer ----- LOL! Perfect description/Multiple Choices of Bad Apples. Well done! Now stick those Apples on a popsickle-Stick and dip them in oooey gooey caramel (enough to cover the true condition of the rotten apple) and hand them out on Halloween to every JW that comes to your door. :-) /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:01:27
Comments
Hi Mr. Mole, who wrote: "They usually justify this by misusing the lord's statement, "let the dead bury the dead." ----- I'd like to add to that by saying the Society also repeatedly used the scripture where Jesus said, "You will always have the poor with you," to suggest that we should not waste our time helping the hungry, needy, etc. -- Hope you're doing okay, Mole! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:04:35
Comments
To whomever wrote: "I am confused as to what the mission of this site is." ----- For a Refresher Course, read the Home Page of this site and associated sections of this site. The purpose of the site has not changed. If victims have become friendly and wish to use the guestbook to discuss other areas of their association with the WTS, What Of It? "New victims" are still "coming out of the closet" and posting here. Stay tuned, don't touch that dial, the New Season is beginning... /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:06:09
Comments
Right on Buster. I learn more every day, now that I am not afraid to learn anymore, which most JWs are still in denial and afraid. It takes time, but worth taking a peek at the WTS's history without our Rose-Colored-Glasses On! (Buster had written: "I am talking about core beliefs - the very basis that you claim to cling to. There is no baby in the bathwater - toss it. - Buster"). - /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:07:49
Comments
THANKS Claudine for the well wishes. And glad to hear you visit Channel C and J-W.com. I can't keep up with either, but I keep trying! How's life treating you this week? Some of my stress is off, now to play catch up! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:13:36
Comments
DID YOU GUYS SEE THIS? ANYONE LIVE IN KY and CAN GO SUPPORT BILL? (Seems Motel Rooms are becoming more popular) ----- From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Tue, 6 Aug 2002 10:45:31 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: New invitation --- Below is the letter I just received at 10:30 this morning by way of my attorney. It appears the announcement will not be made this Thursday night, for that reason I will not be attending Thursday. I now wish to invite anyone who might like to appear before the appeal committee as “witnesses” to whether I have actually caused divisions in the congregation. If you would like to offer support in that regard please let me know. --- 270-527-5350 and I will be glad to explain further. Regards, bill --- Princeton Congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses -- c/o Presiding Overseer 901 Hopkinsville Street Princeton KY 42445 -- 8-6-02 -- William H. Bowen P.O. Box 311 Calvert City, KY 42029 -- Dear Brother Bowen, Arrangements have made to hear your appeal of the decision made by the judicial committee that you should be disfellowshipped. The meeting has been set for Sunday August 11, 2002 at 5:00 pm, at the following address: Conference Room of the Holiday Inn Express, 173 Carroll Road, Benton, KY. -- Your Brother, Daniel L. McMullen Chairman Committee Fax: 270-365-5334 cc: L. Rush Hunt, Attorney at Law

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:27:30
Comments
Hey BLM! Your question about whether it is a crime for WTS to send pedophiles door to door... one would think so. If not criminal then I would think civil neglience would apply should anything occur. However, why not write Pres. Bush and ask him (and it could be a topic for discussion at his Child Safety Conference on 9/24/02!) Keep up that sharp brain of yours! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
22:35:17
Comments
To the person (WTS Defender) who wrote that we were wasting our time sharing scriptures with our own "application" of those scriptures... I ask that person: Are not the scriptures ALIVE and exerting POWER? If they are ALIVE, then they BREATHE into EVERY human circumstance throughout EVERY generation. Therefore I say unto you: If the shoe fits! --- Is it logical there only ONE application for ALL scriptures? Even the WTS doesn't teach that narrow view, so why do you think that way? -- However, if scriptures don't do it for you, how about some quotes direct from God's Channel itself (a/k/a literature)? Stay tuned and I'll have a nice list of WT quotes for you in a day or two. Best take off your shoes and go wash your feet between now and then because you will find it necessary to insert your foot into your mouth. Yummmm, How's About Some Tasty Toes, eh? /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:01:33
Comments
TO the person who wrote: "book of the month club". LOL! I never even thought of that before. Funny. As a matter of fact, I read a post today that someone figured out that JWs read an average of 3000 pages of WT literature per year. Then I did some figuring myself and came up with this: 11 years as a JW x 3000 = 33,000 pages. My NWT says it has 1340 pages. If I had never read any of the WT literature during those years, I could have read the Bible 24.5 more times during that time frame (in addition to the regular Bible reading we did as part of the cong). /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:05:25
Comments
REPOSTING, since the website has (thank you!) been updated/divided tonight (August Part 1), and this got lost in the updating. This was posted FIRST, earlier, before the White House reply, etc. ----- NOTICE/FYI: I heard on the news today that, due to the recent kidnappings, etc. in California, Pres. Bush has scheduled a conference at George Washington University on 9/24/02 re: Child Safety (missing, exploited and runaway children). Exploited would cover child sex abuse, so wouldn't it be great if George W. invited B.Bowen & B.Anderson, et al, to the conference to speak about religious organizations who exploit children? We don't we all email him and ask? I already emailed Pres. GW Bush and suggested this at: President George W. Bush president@whitehouse.gov (Of course, only if Bowen and Anderson would WANT to go, that is...) ----- See auto-reply above to the email, and see above the info on the conference from the White House website. Thanks! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
06 Aug 2002
Time:
23:15:01
Comments
REPOSTING to Linda: (This one also seems to have gotten lost in the website update): You asked about the year 2005. The only thing I have seen so far is at this site: <http://quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/2005.htm> I believe (didn't read it, too tired) they are taking the 1935 year of the Great Crowd new light and adding the 70-year lifespan = 2005. Here's the info from that site, FWIW. /SLC ------------------ *** Watchtower 1997 September 15 pp.10-15 Will You Be Faithful Like Elijah? *** 10 Who, then, was this coming Elijah? His identity was revealed when Jesus Christ said: "From the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of the heavens is the goal toward which men press, and those pressing forward are seizing it. For all, the Prophets and the Law, prophesied until John; and if you want to accept it, He himself is 'Elijah who is destined to come.'" Yes, John the Baptizer was the foretold counterpart of Elijah. (Matthew 11:12-14; Mark 9:11-13) An angel had told John's father, Zechariah, that John would have "Elijah's spirit and power" and would "get ready for Jehovah a prepared people." (Luke 1:17) The baptism John performed was a public symbol of an individual's repentance over his sins against the Law, which was to lead the Jews to Christ. (Luke 3:3-6; Galatians 3:24) John's work thus 'got a prepared people ready for Jehovah.' 11 The work of John the Baptizer as "Elijah" showed that a "day of Jehovah" was near. The nearness of that day when God would act against his enemies and preserve his people was also indicated by the apostle Peter. He pointed out that the miraculous events that took place at Pentecost of 33 C.E. were a fulfillment of Joel's prophecy about the outpouring of God's spirit. Peter showed that this was to happen before "the great and illustrious day of Jehovah." (Acts 2:16-21; Joel 2:28-32) It was in 70 C.E. that Jehovah fulfilled his Word by causing the Roman armies to execute divine judgment upon the nation that rejected his Son.-Daniel 9:24-27; John 19:15. 12 However, there was more to come after 70 C.E. The apostle Paul associated a coming "day of Jehovah" with the presence of Jesus Christ. Moreover, the apostle Peter spoke of that day in connection with the yet future "new heavens and a new earth." (2 Thessalonians 2:1, 2; 2 Peter 3:10-13) Bear in mind that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" came in 70 C.E. All of this taken together indicated that something further would take place as represented by the work that Elijah had done. What is that? [...] Be Faithful Like Elijah 21 With zeal like that of Elijah, the small remnant of genuine anointed Christians have discharged their responsibility of caring for the earthly interests of the enthroned King, Jesus Christ. (Matthew 24:47) And for over 60 years now, God has been using these anointed ones to spearhead the work of making disciples of people to whom he has given the wonderful hope of life eternal on a paradise earth. (Matthew 28:19, 20) How grateful these millions can be that the relatively few remaining anointed ones are zealously and faithfully caring for their responsibilities! 22 This Kingdom-preaching work has been accomplished by imperfect humans and only in the strength that Jehovah gives those who prayerfully rely on him. "Elijah was a man with feelings like ours," said the disciple James when citing the prophet's example of praying in order to show the force of a righteous man's prayer. (James 5:16-18) Elijah was not always prophesying or performing miracles. He had the same human feelings and weaknesses that we do, but he served God faithfully. Since we too have God's help and he strengthens us, we can be faithful like Elijah. 23 We have good reason for faithfulness and optimism. Remember that John the Baptizer did an Elijahlike work before the "day of Jehovah" struck in 70 C.E. With Elijah's spirit and power, anointed Christians have done a similar God-given work throughout the earth. This clearly proves that the great "day of Jehovah" is near. [Emphasis Added] *** Watchtower 1997 October 1 p.23 Grateful for a Long Life in Jehovah's Service *** Confident in Kingdom Hope In 1935 we came to understand that the "great crowd" was not a secondary heavenly class. We learned that it instead represents a class that survives the great tribulation and has the opportunity of living forever in Paradise on earth. (Revelation 7:9-14) With this new understanding, some who had partaken of the Memorial emblems realized that theirs was an earthly hope, and they discontinued partaking. [Emphasis Added]

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
00:04:05
Comments
TO ALLTHE FOOLS HERE WHO KEEP CALLING THE WT GODS ORG. THE Spirtual israel etc. read jn:7:18 and write it in your forhead then read and study until you UNDERSTAND awake 5-22-90 pg. 12-13 fallacies in arguementation.then take a hard look in the mirror then truthfully go and tell yourself jw's are the god of the bible his choosen people. the jehovah of brooklyn and the god of the bible are NOT the same. cause the creator says thou shall have no other gods before him. and a true messeger of god will have no falsehood or lie.now lets see about the wt record , the time of the end started in 1798,99 1829,31,44,65,72,73,75,81,1905,07,10-12,18,20,21,32,check heb. 1 to see when the last days started jesus returned to kingdom power 1874 1914 thats not what it says in eph1:20-22 mat 28:18 col 1:13-20 all menbers of the wt were to go to heaven in 1881, 1912,1914,15,21,32 the world was to end in 1914,15,25,41,51,54,75,86,89,2000 etc. remember these are all god,s dates and if any jw questioned any of them the wt god would destroy themfor not being meek to the fds.don,t forget jesus judged all religions in 1918 and just loved the idea that anyonenot a follower of russell body would be picked to the bone by vultures in 1920 ie the finished mystery. i know you here the praise the angels gave to god when jesus released the judge from prison in 1918 . i,ll quote a 1959 wt in 1918 jehovah god caused judge rutherford to preach million now living will never die the world has ended . if my calander is correct the end didn,t come in 1925 issac jacob, abraham didn,t come to become leaders of london, newyork r,jerulesum, and nobody would go bald after 1926. don,t forget rutherford was more sure about 1925 than noah was about the flood . any jw want to go to venus the wt said it,s a paradise thats were your jehovah sent the dinosaurs. let the wt measure your nose and skull to see if smart enough to do the preaching work. get your mericle wheat 100 fold better than normal wheat here that farmers. having trouble seeing how great wt wheat is order wt radium glasses to help correct your vision. Icould go on for months with the proper food at the proper time that jehovah,s spirit org. has printed. i drive a truck in bronx ny i stop everytime i see a wt zombie in the street and use the bible and thier own books to make LIARS out them show them they follow a false christ. but of course i,m not meek because i follow the bible to prove all things true and not worship the WATCHTOWER.and just believe what the fds says with out testing it. jw,s have no reasoning power they read one verse to you and say see were gods people. and feel justified never willing to test weather thier teaching hold any weight. when invited to a kh i love to ask if they read these old wt books most times they will yes until i start pulling books off the shelves i love to watch elders and overseers who were brough in to answer my questions foam at the mouth after calling me a liar read it in thier own libraRY. j_chito@MSN.COM IN INVITE ALL INQUIRIES

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
00:45:39
Comments
Hmmm. Let me see. Hello, this is the JW defender responding to SLC. Let me repeat some of the things I said in my earlier post, to refresh your memory. In summary: 1) “Read the bible. See how clearly Jah states time and time again what constitutes fornication, adultery, slander, loose conduct, apostasy, every sin this world is swimming in.” - Can you shed some light on how those sins are handled in your new org, whatever it is at this point? How do you feel about adultery? Fornication? Please share your views, I'm sure the Catholic, Protestant, and Baptist crowd here is eager to see how you interpret God's law, and how it applies to those that break it. Another line from my original post 2) “ Give me a BREAK already with the talk about failed bible predictions. If you read the bible, which I'm sure some of you do, you will find that many faithful men and women didn't have a full understanding of what Jah's purpose was. Some prophets were even mistaken in their predictions. What would you say to them?” – Well, I'm waiting for your reply, or anyone else's for that matter. Go on, reach in your back pocket and pull out the reasoning book, follow up with the WT cd, and look in the bible. Please comment and enlighten those who thirst for knowledge. I'll say it again, no matter how many verses you quote, no matter how flowery the language you use, no matter how many quotes from 1901 you use, this site amounts to a JW bashing party. Look at your quotes. Look at everyone's quotes. How often has a child abuse victim benefited from your inane observations? Oh, before I forget, when you reply, please include your view on the Trinity. Also, tell us who is the Faithful and Discreet slave, since you know so much. Since you're so versed in scripture, go into a detailed explanation of why you think it is biblically wrong when the bible makes it oh so crystal clear that to establish a matter two to three witnesses are necessary. Anyone that says “you will find it necessary to insert your foot into your mouth. Yummmm, How's About Some Tasty Toes, eh?” is a wise person and should be listened to. lol

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:08:35
Comments
i watched the panorama programme, pleased that it went out nationwide for all of the uk to see the things that are going on, and covered up within the WT organization. My family took part in a BBC 2 programme 5 yrs ago called 'Close up' highlighting child sexual abuse to some extent. My husband was an elder who reported to both the congregation, and the legal desk an allegation of abuse. Both the body of elders and subsequently the legal desk at bethel advised my husband to leave it as "probably nothing would come of it, dont stir things up". The upshot was that my husband told the police of the brothers wherabouts, he was arrested and charged with 4 counts of sexual abuse. He pleaded guilty to 3 of them and escaped a prison sentence, apparantly the fourth would have sent him to prison. He then had to go for some sort of sex offenders course as part of his sentence. This man was supported by the congregation and as far as I know remained as a JW. My husband was so disgusted and horrified at the stance of the WT org he left, and I left shortly afterward. We have since done much exploration into the WT and come to realise, examining definitions and activities, that the WT is a cult and as such is at liberty to abuse its members in any way it seems fit. It devastates me to see all these young people suffering at the hands of the WT policies and I pray that they will eventually 'see the light' and leave. I have almost finished 4 years of training to be a counsellor and I would be more that happy to help some of these young people to get their lives back. Linda Birt e mail lindabirt41@aol.com

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:38:19
Comments
JW Defender or should we call you Tasty Toes? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . I don't believe this is the board or the forum to discuss doctrine. If you want a serious discussion of any of the doctrinal points you listed just take the questions to JWD or similar boards. .. … . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . However I will gladly comment on this quote of yours * Since you're so versed in scripture, go into a detailed explanation of why you think it is biblically wrong when the bible makes it oh so crystal clear that to establish a matter two to three witnesses are necessary* . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . For over twenty years the watchtower required TWO witnesses to ONE act of child molestation and because of this requirement certain men (Pandela, Fitzpatrick, doubtlessly many others) were able to abuse multiple victims. Now JR Brown tells us that the two witness rule can be used if there are TWO witnesses to TWO different acts of child molestation. Since the Bible is so crystal clear , WHAT CHANGED?

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
09:50:44
Comments
To "07 Aug 2002" who started off by saying:"Hmmm. Let me see."_____________________________________Lets let our Awake 10/8/68 answer one of your questions. "True, there have been those in times past who predicted an 'end to the world', even announcing a specific date. Yet nothing happened. The 'end' did not come. They were guilty of false prophesying. Why? What was missing?..Missing from such people were God's truths and evidence that he was using and guiding them."______________________I will also include for you this handy dandy bashing suggestions provided directly from our Watchtower Society. http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/wtchurchattack.htm I hope that you can use these examples in your constructive critism of the Catholics, Baptists and anyone else you dislike.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
11:07:19
Comments
TO THOSE WHO DEFEND WTS: Bill is accused of causing division because he stood up against what is grossly wrong and those who are doing gross wrong, and those who are supporting what is grossly wrong. **********The word of God is alive and exerts power and is sharper than any two edged sword and pierces even to the dividing of the soul and spirit and of joints and marrow, and is able to discern thoughts and intentons of the heart.***********************I would say that Bill Bowen and the rest of us here have experienced this aliveness of God's word and the power of it. **********To even think that Jehovah or Jesus would ask for two witnesses to a crime against a child, and the intention was for us to obey blindly is ridden with evil intentions and against the teachings of Christ.**************************Protecting children is not exactly worshipping a Golden Calf, not protecting them is the same as scaraficing them to a god.**************************WTS have divided themselves from Jehovah God against all reasonableness and that is the source of the divisiveness. ****************are we moaning and groaning over the detestible things i.e. pedophila or are we moaning and groaning over the ones who are moaning and groaning over the detestible things?????**************WTS dialogues with "professionals" like Stark who have no vested interest in the righteousness of God, or the any love for the sheep, and then they won't talk to Bill Bowen. Nor will they consider the gravity of pedophilia except to pay it lip service and df anyone who wants protection for children not JUST lip service.**********************Anyone who thinks the theme of all of us is to BASH WTS needs to seriously study their bible and seriously pray to Jehovah for insight. The WTS is bashing Bill and those like him by calling them apostate while the WTS have no love of righteousness and is not even open to resolution. Claudine

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
11:09:22
Comments
Hugs for Bonnielynn !!! She called me with a Stupendous, Fantabulous idea. This is something everyone can do. Big city, small town it doesn't matter. Every place has law enforcement. Ask the law enforcement in your town if it is against the law for an organization to KNOWINGLY send known pedophiles to do door to door canvassing work. Make copies of J. R. Brown's letters and statements from the WTS website as proof. He has admitted that a "repentant" pedophile can go door to door. In fact that is what they are told to do. Yes they go with someone else, but the other person does not know that the partner they have in the door to door work is a pedophile. In fact they could be one too. Neither of them would know since it is all kept secret. So do you think your local law inforcement would be interested? You can bet your Bippy they would !! (Love Ya Bonnielynn) and Love Y'all to the rest,Loris

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:27:47
Comments
I've been reading this site for several months now and I have a question. I agree with all that has been said about the silentlambs. I will get to my question in a minute. My view is that there hasn't been such a tavesty since before the flood when Satan and his demons came to earth and took namely all they chose of women. Today the same situation is occuring, do you not think that Satan is behind this, do you not know that he sees and gets pleasure out of it. My question is why do not the brothers see this? In fact they are covering up for them. So if indeed this is the case, what are we to do? Flee, flee to what....Who else has the teachings of life? Will Jehovah not stand up and settle this matter? jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:42:32
Comments
Only man can make God's Law inequitable...and Jesus fulfilled the law, did away with it and gave us the command to love one another. Two witnesses is a guideline used by WTS in an inequitable way without love. It is used to hide behind when all else fails to cover their tracks. If this were not so, there would be no problem. It did not keep the congregation clean or promote love among the sheep. How many pedophiles on file would it have taken for the WTS to realize that the problem was only getting worst with each act of neglect on their part? I guess they can say that it isn't very spiritual to be upset about not waiting on Jehovah to do something about the pedophiles and ill-treatment of victims. But I guess we can say that is the poorest excuse every heard to do nothing ourselves. So if the "goal" is to have love among the sheep, a clean congregation, to worship Jehovah in truth and righeousness - how is it that such hatefulness exists (pedophilia & supporting them), dirt and filth contaminating the congregation, and lies of selfrighteouness prevail???? Where are the fruits of the spirit and where is this thing called loved? Blind love is blind to righteouness,and truth. It is not the love Jesus recommended. Does Jesus love a pedophile who goes out in service more than a child now grown whose spirit is broken by inequity???? Does Jesus love a pedophile who does his hours, places his magazines and does not take responsibility for the devastation he/she caused???Does Jesus Love those who support a pedophile and re-victimizes the victim with this support. Or is this just all the victims burden to carry??? Is a den of inequity a den of inequity or not? ********************************When Bible truth is twisted to such an extent that right is wrong and wrong is right, one must look to the source of this teaching. Jesus is High Priest and He taught love of what is good, and benefical and he also said that to what you do to the least one of these you do to me. Jesus is watching and reading the hearts of each of us. No one is exempt from this examining of the heart. To allude that Jesus would tolerate the mistreatment of children, the broken in spirit for any reason is against all the teaching of Christ - these were the people He loved the most and died so graciously for. For anyone, even the WTS, to teach any different is apostacy to the true teachings of Christ. The yoke of Jesus is light and it is a wrong teaching to burden the burdened, to break the spirit of the broken in spirit, and to mistreat the innocent by calling them workers of lawlessness. Amen, soapbox

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
12:50:47
Comments
Hi SLC, bjc here. I'd like to mention a few "facts" not correctly understood by most who hear of this book called "The Report". Also a few point about the people associated with it. In reference to "The Report", I've been associated with "The Report" book and related literature and its publishing for over a decade now. *******************In the beginning, the author of "The Report" maintained a PO Box in Florida early on (1991-1994) since that was the first place the book was promulgated thru newspapers to as many Jehovah's Witnesses as could be reached in the area. Nevertheless, it has always been based in Alabama, where the publisher actually lives. (The name "TWMC Publishing" was recently changed to "EMC Publications" by the author of the book.) The author did maintain a couple of websites, www.the-report.com and one before that for a few years, but it has since been discontinued. (1994-1997)***********************I've noticed there is a lot of misinformation about the book and what the book actually says out and projects for JWs on the net, such as Randy's freemind.org and jw.com. This statement is an example of misinformation: "...it is reported they believe that JAH is going to clean up the WT". Absolutely false. They DO NOT believe Jehovah is going to "clean up the WTS". They believe the WTS is incorrigibly wicked, irreformable and will in the end suffer "total destruction" as "Babylon the Great", shortly to be fully revealed. (See page 59 of "The Report" Volume I.) In addition, they also believe specifically that the Governing Body will in time, be revealed as the "man of lawlessness", someone beyond reform. (See pages 168-182 "The Report" volume I.) As you recall, I posted information on the "man of lawlessness" on silentlambs to you and a few others, and you posted it on jw.com. *******************The "Report" shows that practically all of the 6 million Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide, the people themselves are largely duped by the WTS, given only an "elementary education" of scripture (only fundamental truths, like correct view on "hell" [grave], no "hellfire," no "trinity," man to live on paradise earth", etc. It is easy to prove that many of these very same fundamental "truths" still "live" within the Adventist Community, where C.T. Russell got them in the first place. For example, G. Storrs on hellfire, immortality of soul. C.T. Russell learned these viewpoints directly from him. Also CT Russell inherited his "achilles heel" teachings from the adventists too. Like 1914, invisible parousia, and a 2-stage second coming of Christ. The "Proclaimers" book pgs. 42-48, 132-134, 631 give eloquent testimony.) Of course most know these are all ease to prove falsehoods! In fact CT Russell, history books shows, joined Adventist Jonas Wendell's group between the years of 1870-74, and was a disciple of this adventist for 4 years, and learned everything he could from this man. This is something the WTS will not admit. But, history books reveal Jonas Wendell in 1874, even began to teach the date of 1914. Russell left the group that same year, 1874. However, N. Barbour accepted this, as he was a reader of the writings of Jonas Wendell too, in 1875. You may recall, Jonas Wendell is mentioned on page 120 of the "Proclaimers" book, as having been instrumental to the education of CT Russell in his early years. But whats not revealed is the fact that Charles Russell was a member of his Adventis church, and Wendell was Russell's church leader for 4 years. They just say it was a "learning period" of young CT Russell, between the years of 1870-75, pg. 718 of "Proclaimers" book. When in fact, history books show, he was a member of the Adventist Group headed up by Jonas Wendell. Then after that, in 1876 CT Russell meets N. Barbour, but actually contributes nothing along the lines of any teaching about chronology leading to 1914. This all came all from Adventist N. Barbour. So, the article of 1877 "Three Worlds..." that supposedly was so critical to Russell's learning and spiritual growth thru God's spirit as the the WTS would have us believe, actually came about inadvertently from Adventists teachings, and N. Barbour's being influenced by Jonas Wendell and other Adventists. Russell's only contribution to "Three Worlds..." was some information on the "Ransom sacrifice" and restitution. N. Barbour had the chronology and 1914 teaching. But Russell left Barbour, yes, HE STOLE the 1914 chronology and teaching from N. Barbour and Jonas Wendell, spiritualized the 1874 date as a special "harvest" taking place of 40 years up to 1914, which was supposed to be Armageddon. And so on and so on the story goes...whew! Nevertheless, all of these facts were hid by the WTS from the flock of JWs in general.****************Meanwhile back at the ranch, the WTS has been so successful in fooling non-beroean JWs in general, and fooled them into believeing that they, WTS actually understand bible prophecy and how it applies. But in truth, they never taught the "deeper things of God", like bible prophecy correctly. This "ignorance" of scripture, makes it easy for the WTS and G.B. to pass themselves off as the F&DS, but are actually impostors. "The Report" shows using this insidious format, and misapplying Matt. 24:45 the WTS/G.B. works to gradually lead JWs into false worship of themselves in demanding complete obedience to the WTS/G.B. over Almighty God. Prophecy reveals Jehovah God is of course, aware of all things. Allows the situation to develop, it works out as a perfect "test" of His Name People. It is outright idolatry and will not be tolerated Him. But how JWs are going to see it as it is? That's the question. All are aware that God "shares" His "glory" nor worship with no one, not even Jesus Christ! They know this. But how will they react, as a people, in reality? (See Isaiah 42:8) *****************So God permits all of these happenings which in the end, actually force a serious revelation for all Jehovah's witnesses worldwide. It reveals the great truth that Jehovah's Witnesses are really God's Name people, mystery "Israel" of Bible prophecy. And they are fulfilling it, by their every move and thought. God knows their every move, and speaks of it thru prophecy, AHEAD OF TIME. Showing His "All-Knowingness" or Omniscience of the seeming tragedy, that works out as a great blessing for Israel -- their rebirth as "Israel". (Matt. 19:28; Acts 3:20, 21)This special "knowledge" of being "Israel" is forced upon themselves by the trouble they are led into. But they are delivered from this Great Distress. (Jeremiah 30:7; Ezekiel 20:35-38; Rev. 12:1-6) *************************But first they are "disciplined" for sin, and then God later "restores" them to their rightful place of enormous favor, as His Name people. All the world will recognize this as the eternal purpose of God. (Isaiah 60th chapter) **********************In all of this, we must remember, the "restoration" of JWs is in the future, and only occurs for JWs (a faithful remnant, a "refined third" prophecy says) when they finally learn to SEVERE their ties with their mysterious leader, the WTS/GB. Then, the things are put in place for the "restoration" process to begin. (Zech. 13:8,9) The "remnant" of JWs prove to be the mysterious "third" (the worth redeemables of JWs) spoken of in the book of Revelation 8:7-12 and 9:18-21. But this restoration of "Israel", will take some time. ***************One things for sure, it definitely requires God to take special action against "Israel", to discipline them, as His "sons". His direct intervention as God Almighty, will show all concerned, that they are not "illegimate children" at all, but truly His "Sons", whom He will discipline plainly in the sight of the whole world. They are His Name People for all the world to see and comprehend, and understand. Now, even the nations, the world in general, can LEARN from this display of His Awesome Almighty power to this special people, and they too, can become His servants. They can learn from what God does to "Israel" to serve God Almighty. (See Ezekiel 39:21-24.) *************So, "The Report" reveals that everybody, everywhere will benefit from this scenario! Even the "nations" too, get a learning lesson from all of this. And of course, great praise is brought to God's Name as a result, as God demonstrates for all to see, He is one who does not show any "partiality" toward anyone. He shows no is exempt or out of reach, from the discipline of His outstretched Powerful Arm, not even His Name people. By permitting this situation to develop, God shows to all the world, "Judgment starts with the House of God". (1 Peter 4:17) *****************And finally with this unusual outcome of a seemingly dreadful situation, JWs will reach their final "destination", and realize that "there really is LIFE AFTER LEAVING the Watchtower Society. Wonderfully so! In the end, it will become known to all that the WTS was only a "golden cup" in God's Hand, that he could discard at anytime. His instrument to use as He chooses, and discards when the usefulness of it has been reached. They same way he cast off the nation of Babylon, AFTER they served their usefulness to His Divine Will. If and when they turn on their own, to wickedness and idolatry away from God. (Isaiah 30:26; Jeremiah 23:19, 20; Micah 4:6,7; Jeremiah 51:7) Jehovah's Witnesses will then learn entire expeience, that it was God all along that had been helping them. It God, and not the WTS! Now, after they learn this, they can rightfully re-gain their original status with God, as mystery "Israel". A privileged status achieved because of embracing these "fundamental truths" possessed by the nation that honor God, coupled with the fact that they willingly shoulded the weighty responsibility to carry God's personal Name upon themselves, as His Name people, ever since the year of 1931. **************Many of you are probably wondering about the year of 1931. Actually, the year of 1931 has an interesting background with JWs as a people. This year is important in the history of all JWs because it started (unbeknowst to JWs) a great, Godly 70-year instructional period of "teaching" as a form of "discipline" for the spiritual nation. The key period being between the years of October 1931 to October 2001. Here are a few points: The October 15 Watchtower magazine made a number of significant changes in that year. (1) Put God's Name on the front cover of the magazine, and has been there ever since, "Proclaimers" bk pg. 124 (2) Removed the cross symbol off the cover of the magazine, yearbook 1975 pg. 148 (3) Removed the names of the editors of the magazine. "Proclaimers" bk, pg. 146) *************Interestingly, point #3 was further emphasized with a follow-up article in the November 1st Watchtower with a straight-forward, hardhitting article called "Taught of God". This article states, "The Watchtower recognizes the truth as belonging to Jehovah, and not to any creature. The Watchtower is not the instrument of any man or set of men, nor is it published according to the whims of men...Jehovah God is the great Teacher of his children." The article also went on to say that this magazine, The Watchtower magazine, would be exclusively devoted to bringing out ONLY "God's Truth that he teaches His children." Thus in this way, it was to be clearly understood by all JWs, that Jehovah actually becomes its true editor wherein the Watchtower magazine becomes the "instrument" of God, and not "the instrument of imperfect men", "Proclaimers" book page 143. That's why the names of the editors of the magazine was removed. JWs then recognized that only "truth" should come forth from this magazine, and not the "whimsical" ideas of man. But Almighty God would take the lead in the instructional process of giving His Children, Truth. *****************Then too, previously, in the Sept. 15th, 1931 Watchtower magazine, published a very serious article which was written to all prospective JWs just before the "Special Name Campaign" of October. This article outlined in detail the grave responsibilities associated with "carrying the Name" upon themselves, for all of those who were going to agree to doing this. It was clearly stated in that article "serious consequences" awaited all who agreed to accept this Great Name upon themselves, but later in any way FAILED TO LIVE UP THIS NAME, or they reproached it in any way. It was agreed that God would bring these "serious consequences" upon these people for carrying His name, and for any reproach they heaped upon it. His Name must be honored in all things, at all times. That would their responsibility to see that this became a reality, lest God bring about the "severe consequences" as righteous punishment upon His Name People. (See Watchtower 7/15/81 pg. 20. par. 17.) *******************So it could be said that Jehovah God really did begin a 70-year "discipline", teaching or training period of His Name People, similar to what they experienced while in their exile in Babylon, as Daniel "discerned" for himself. (Jer. 33:32; Daniel 9:2) Thus making it possible for Jehovah to take special action for His Name People, in October of 2001. So, after this 70 year instructional period was up, Jehovah moves into action by pulling "the sheets" off the Governing Body, and exposing them as secret 10-year NGOs for the United Nations in October 2001, on the 70th anniversary of being identified by God's Name. Exactly on time. If God's people have benefited from these 70 years of specialized training by Jehovah Himself, using the "instrumental" publications that bear His Name, they would act appropriately, as true "sons of His". They would act as they should, based upon what they have learned as a people, thru the official "instrument" of God, the Watchtower Magazine and related publications. They would recognize what the Watchtower Society was doing, was pure satanic "idolatry", and would appropriately "flee from it", 1 Cor. 10:14. ************"The Report" asserts that JWs are fulfilling these prophecies as we speak. But, "The Report" shows using Bible prophecy, that JWs will NOT be destroyed as a people, but will be severely disciplined or "chastised" by God, as would be expect of a loving father giving discipline or further training to His Sons. (Jer. 46:28; Hebrews 12:5-7)*********Whats Ahead For All JWs: Based upon "The Report" shows using the prophecy of Ezekiel 34:1-21, Jehovah initially takes action to save two special groups of JWs. (1) The "Tents of Judah" first. These particular "Israelites" (Jehovah's Witnesses)display extraordinary faith in God's prophetic word so as to please Him completely. These would include all JWs who were wrongly disfellowshiped or disassociated and since left the JW organization because of standing for right and maintaining a good conscience with God, and refusing to practice what is wrong because the WTS says so. Theses people are first on God's list to "save". These faithful individuals are one who look to "God's Prophetic Word" as a "light shining in a dark place" with complete confidence. Having "faith", they please their Creator and show outstandingly so, they have benefitted from the "training" God has provided since 1931. (Jer. 32:33; Hebrews 11:6; 2 Peter 1:19) What God has in store for them as a reward, is unspeakably, incomprehensibly wonderful!!!! I won't even attempt to explain that at this time. But its reeeeaaaal good. (Jer. 33:3; Hosea 1:7; Zech. 12:7) Shortly after that great "salvation" by God of which many of you will probably be a part, Jehovah and Jesus will then take immediate steps to bring out of the JW Organization the SECOND group of faithful ones, ones He wishes to save from the wicked clutches of the WTS. (2) These are no less the "Two Witnesses" of Revelation 11:3. JWs who are for "reform". A reform movement within the Jehovah's Witnesses itself, comprised of individual member Jehovah's Witnesses who will push for change and repentance (even if it means disfellowshipment) upon the JW organization's part, (such as we see in the silent lambs movement). These ones will gain a strong following amongs JWs, but will in the end have to leave the organization because of the entrenched wickedness of the WTS and majority followers, who eventually end up in destruction following the WTS/G.B. Revelation 11th chapter shows, God uses these small band of reformers, the "Two Witnesses", in the most incredible way to His own glory and praise, and after leaving the WTS, on to greater "glory" for His Namesake to the world in general, Revelation 11:7-13 indicates. I hope this helps.......bjc2read@yahoo.com

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
13:20:21
Comments
PS: SLC and interested ones: "The Report" comes in three volumes. So its quite a bit of written material in it. Volumes II and III are still non published works, released to only a few individuals of "confidence". But Volume I is available from the publisher, emcpublications@yahoo.com to all who are interested.**************EMC Publications, PO Box 230445, Montgomery, Ala. 36123*********** Also I forgot to say, information on the "Great Name Campaign" of October 1931 can be found in the "Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose" book, on page 126. A special publication "The hope of the world is God's kingdom, and there is no other hope" was released at that time, which included the text of Brother Rutherford's talk on the New Name, and the contents of the special "name resolution" which was unanimously adopted by all Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide at conventions around the world. These assemblies started in the summer of 1931 (Columbus, Ohio) and went on to some 50 additional assembly sites around the world. Afterwhich, the Great "Name campaign" began in October of 1931 where everyone possible was given "notice" of this happening. *********bjc

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
13:26:37
Comments
to 12:50:47 Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn. I don't like JW's either but come on thats the biggest bunch of twisted words I've ever seen! It gave me a worse headache than trying to understand some of the witness teachings. I think you need to tell the author of this work to find another job or perhaps become a fiction writer. Lets talk about helping the children instead of more twisted prophecy.........Please?

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
14:00:37
Comments
I'll say it again…… This site is nothing but a JW bashing party. If you want me to refrain from asking questions about doctrine to keep me and maybe one or two that have exposed this site for what it is, then I would ask that you stick to what the purpose of this site pretends to be, to help innocent children. I GUARANTEE there would be nothing else for you to talk about. So take your JW bashing to another one of your favorite sites and leave this site for the 3 people that will be left. Lets see how you apply scripture to that one. Also, In case you and all your friends don't know, the posts on this site are typical of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people who typically knock other to build themselves up. I do not get the impression that they are from genuinely abused people. If so, why aren't they on Dateline? The posts engage in name calling, slanderous accusations with ABSOLUTELY NO PROOF of evidence (i.e. “my whole family was abused by an elder (gimme a break, did you call the police?)), etc. However, I will say this: I honestly and with all my heart hope that some of you have a change of heart. Remove the hate that clouds your judgement, and if you wont return to Jah, at the very least do something worthwhile for children that are hurt not only by those who calim to be JW's, but across the board. Set up a site for abused children period! I'll tell you what, though, I wont be holding my breath for that one.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
14:40:05
Comments
To the JW defender: This actually is a site for abused children. Yes, some seemingly unrelated topics work their way in now and then. But the root of the issue seems intrinsically related to the structure and administration of the WTS. The issue is not about a few predatory, ham-handed wolves in sheep's clothing. It is not about a case, or a few cases that can be attributed to some bad apple(s). The issue is about the Society's handling of the situation. The issue is about what further steps are taken, who is notified, who is protected and supported, who is reported to the police - according to actual WTS policies and procedures. The issue revolves around where the rules originate, how they are disseminated, what happens to those that fail to follow the man-made directives. You are correct that if the topic was limited to people reporting that 'Brother Roman Fingers groped me and the family pets' then the forum would be short. It may feel off-topic to you when someone belabors a point about the fact that C.T. Russel used to sell Miracle Wheat, or that Rutherford and Franz built a mansion in the 20's to welcome the resurrected princes (David, Ezekial, Moses, and their buddies) back to earth. (By the way, he was probably just watching the place, but Rutherford lived in the mansion). But it is quite relevant in this context - it speaks to the self-directed, man-made nature of the organization. You do yourself a disservice by failing to see that the issue is with the organization from its core out to the congregations. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:08:45
Comments
This is for the whiner that thinks we are having a JW bashing party.*** This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * Yes this site is full of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people. What do you think genuinely abused people should be like? They have been driven away from Jah by JW's. Do you think they should feel all warm and fuzzy towards them? 8 This site is full of hurt, confused, ABUSED people trying to make sense of the horror of being neglected and discounted by the very spititual shepherds they trusted their everlasting life to. Now they struggle to get back to Jah, with dignity, without the abusive shepherds beating on them. To regain trust in God after such a heart-breaking beating of the spirit is a difficult road to travel. Yes, there are a lot of scriptures tossed around here. That shows that the WTS has not taken away the basic love of God's Word from these sheep. Leave us alone and let us heal in our way. We have open sores, oozing pustulant sores. It's ugly to look at. If you can't take it maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room. *** Loris

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:09:51
Comments
WHERE DO WE GO???.....We go to Jehovah and no one else! We petition the High Priest Jesus and no one else. We go to the Bible for God's word and no one else.*******to teach some truth does not give anyone the "right" to lie about other truths.********** A man who supports his family and does one thing right does not give him the right or permission to abuse the same family he supports.***********To give some truth about God and lie about the rest is to lead people into temptation and destruction just the same. To offer half truth is to offer chaos and confusion. One half against the other, a house divided destroys itself. c.e.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:09:53
Comments
This is for the whiner that thinks we are having a JW bashing party.*** This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * Yes this site is full of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people. What do you think genuinely abused people should be like? They have been driven away from Jah by JW's. Do you think they should feel all warm and fuzzy towards them? 8 This site is full of hurt, confused, ABUSED people trying to make sense of the horror of being neglected and discounted by the very spititual shepherds they trusted their everlasting life to. Now they struggle to get back to Jah, with dignity, without the abusive shepherds beating on them. To regain trust in God after such a heart-breaking beating of the spirit is a difficult road to travel. Yes, there are a lot of scriptures tossed around here. That shows that the WTS has not taken away the basic love of God's Word from these sheep. Leave us alone and let us heal in our way. We have open sores, oozing pustulant sores. It's ugly to look at. If you can't take it maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room. *** Loris

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:29:35
Comments
Thanks LORIS for your comments containing Emeregency Room. I wrote something similiar but it is lost in cyberspace but yours was more eloquent anyway. Just one more thought for the JW defenders and I am one (for the past 35 yrs)...PEDOPHILIA IS NOT A WEAKNESS...NOT JUST A SIN)...NOT A MISTAKE...IT IS AN EVIL COMMITTED AGAINST CHILDREN..AN EVIL CHOICE TO BE EXACT. JW's have no problem judging other religions and people as evil, wicked, etc. but they have a hard time applying it to one of their own. Fine works and scriptural teachings have nothing to do with this cover-up. There are millions of good people who faithfully practive the teachings of JW's BUT there are thousands who are harming our children with the sanction of the GB. If the statistics are correct, there are pedophiles in almost every congregation. Although, you would like to believe that ALL of them are disfellowshipped, the facts show that most are not. You can talk about forgiveness and repentance till Armageddon but it does not apply to pedophiles. The vast majority do not change...they don't repent...until they are caught. WHEN DO YOU FIND OUT IF THEY AREN'T CURED AND REPENTANT?...ONLY WHEN THEY MOLEST ANOTHER CHILD...MAYBE YOUR CHILD...THEN HOW FORGIVING WILL YOU BE? JW's want to believe that learning the Bible will change all kinds of wicked people...and in many cases it does...but not with pedophiles. WHY HAVEN'T WE HEARD FROM ANY PEDOPHILES WHO HAVE CHANGED? IF THERE ARE SOME IN THE WTS..WOULDN'T YOU THINK THEY WOULD HAVE WRITTEN ABOUT IT HERE. Some people are just born evil and it doesn't matter what you do to help them, they are not going to change. Respectfully, jazbug55

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
15:47:28
Comments
Buster, Loris, SLC, XYZ, 123, ETC, – Once again, since you're in denial, you've converted this site into a bash-for-all. Now why can't YOU all admit something that is proven time and time again on this site? Buster – You say unrelated topics work their way in now and then? C'mon! Buster - You think you answered the question by saying God did not use these men. I hope you're better at reading the bible than reading my posts. Stick to what your stated mission is, don't confuse people that drop in and see messages of hate, of pyramids, of NGO, etc. And if you veer off topic and use scripture, describe what the original fulfillment was, what the greater fulfillment will be, and how we can learn from it. Of course, you will need the WT materials to help you do that, other religions will stray you far, far away from a clear understanding. I was talking about angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people who have a BEEF with the WT for reasons such as hate, pride, and hate. I'd like to ask those people, do you still preach? Did Jesus give a reason to stop preaching? Do you often talk about paradise? Do you teach others about biblical truths? Are you in a congregation? I trust you all know that Christians are supposed to congregate according to scripture. What is the name of your congregation? Are any of you elders in your new congregation? Who is your PO? Where do you worship? How do you handle judicial matters? Oh, oh wait, all you do is post here on this site. I'll leave you in your emergency room. I don't see any qualified doctors.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:02:24
Comments
Dear Brother Bowen: I am so sorry they disfellowshipped you. I too am disfellowshipped for committing fornication with an elder. Is it still all my fault if I am 18 and he is 48. And he got public reproof. Even though I was of age I still feel like a victim of a pedophile anyway thank you for being a voice to stand up and help so many. Love unconditionally Vanessa

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:06
Comments
Help, Help, Help!!!! My brother in Barcelona Spain has been asking lots of questions, and wants to read the August Kingdom Ministry that comments on treatment of df'd family members. Does anyone know where I can find it online? He wants to see if himself. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:11
Comments
Help, Help, Help!!!! My brother in Barcelona Spain has been asking lots of questions, and wants to read the August Kingdom Ministry that comments on treatment of df'd family members. Does anyone know where I can find it online? He wants to see if himself. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
16:25:13
Comments
Defender: Careful, you're gonna hurt someone's feelings. It is curious how you dismiss discussions of your religion's origins, it's basic tenets, and its dealings with it's members with such ease. You get right to the indoctrinated Witness speak that fills people with so much "hate, fear, and hate." Perhaps you don't see it this way, but in general Witnesses don't know the bible very well. They approach it as they were taught: as a cosmic game of Scrabble a piece here and a piece there to be assembled as a belief. It is true that they can quote from any number of sriptures and augment it with any amount of WTS commentary that had been burned in by five meetings per week. But do they ever sit and try to get a grasp of what the New Testament is about? What was Paul trying to get across when he wrote his second letter to the Corinthians. What were Paul's concepts of community? Not in my experience. This leaves the majority of JWs vulnerable to interpretations forced on them by an organization intent on its own protection. If the JWs spent more time looking at a bigger picture of the scriptures they would be more driven by the overall gist and less by someone else's interpretation of some snippet of a verse. I think that JWs (and most are quite sincere) would then take up their responsibility to understand what is required of them. They would be in a position to realize that (here we get back to the point) it is not reasonable to expect two witnesses to see a child molestation before you can do something. It is not scriptural to beat a three-year-old half senseless because he can't sit through the second meeting (regardless of how many people give you the 'spare the rod' snippet). They would have enough to realize that their interpretation is wrong and that they should look further. I ahve a dream ... - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:02:34
Comments
who's this brain dead jw defender who posted 00:45:39 aug 07 you want to talk about fornication what does the bible say about fornication with the word of the real creator rev. 22:19 deut.5:11 etc. the nwt is a real piece of work.adultry? have sex with another brother wife ,rape 5 10 kids sorry kids brother molest-alot puts in more time than you besides we just made him an elder he was apointed by the holy sprit. you need to go out in the service with him wear clean panties he.s your shepard mt.18:1-6 slander what wt zombies like you say to change the subject and try to justify yourselves everytime your busted in an other of the wt snowball of lies.see awake 5-22-90- pg. 12-13 fallacies in arguemention it's amazing the balls the wt had in printing what deceptive tacticts they teach thier members to use to make them right. read that awake 100 times look in the mirror each time I BET YOUR SO BLIND YOU DON,T SEE IT cause your a ZOMBIE!!!!!!......loose conduct what do you call going door to door decieving people into a study in what ever book the wt is trying to clear out of thier inventory even if it contains old light and crap you never truly looked up wt books are so bad every verse is twisted when wt talks about themself always using jehovah,s name to glorify themselves. i,ve looked up all about earthquakes wars,famine,1914pestilances,etc. the wt is LYING everytime as well as contadicting them selves.over and over . apostasy what gospel is the wt teaching gal 1:1-10 wt gospel is to summit to wt not to jesus jn. 6:66-69 14:6 5:39-40 etc. jw,s are under the yoke of wt they have no freedom in christ gal 5 1-7 2:4-5 5:45 etc. etc.etc. FAILED PROPHETS /////?????THATS A WT SPECIALTY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!WHAT HAPPENED WHEN NANHAN TOLD DAVID TO BUILD THE TEMPLE THE SAME NIGHT GOD TOLD HIM HE WAS WRONG NOT TO BUILD THE TEMPLE .WHAT HAPPENED WHEN THE PROPHET SAID JERUSLEM WOULD BE SPARED JEREMIAH SAID HE DIDN,T HAVE GOD HE DIED IN 2 YRS AS YEHWAH TOLD JEREMIAH WHEN THE DISCIPLES THOUGH THE END WAS NOW JESUS STRAIGHTEN THEM OUT RIGHT AWAY. NOT 80 YRS. LATER WHO is the fds when jesus returns every eye will see him do i need to look up that verse toooooooo!!!!!!!!!!! you gotta love every time the wt calls some old wt book bible truth or some covention forefullment of bible prophecy funny jw,s jump for joy when i talk about about this proper food at the proper time until i open the old books the 2002 wt calls the truth , funny how faces turn to stone . when they don,t want to hear the wt is lying to them now i,m an apostate and i printed this food from the angels go ahead all you wt defenders your either to dum or blinded by your jehovah you worship in brooklyn to see the light when you come to jesus and only him and his father and ask the holy spirit to lead you not bklyn then preach to others lu 11:10-13 NO WT ZOMBIE CAN LAST 30 MINUTES WITH THE TRUTH OF THE BIBLE AND THE TEACHING OF THE WATCHTOWER BRCAUSE FOOLS OF THE WT. CAN,T EXCEPT THE FACTS THEY BEEN LIED TOO TRUTH BOOK PG.13 J-CHITO@MSN.COM BRONX NY 19173710332 GOT MY NAME AND PHONE DON,T YOU THINK YOU CAN LAST 10 MIN. WITH ME I,VE NEVER BEEN A JW HA HA HA NOW YOW WANT TO TALK ABOUT 2 WITNESSES AND CHILD RAPIST HAVE I GOT A MILSTONE FOR YOU GIVE IT YOUR BEST ZOMBIE TRY.. IT WILL BE ME TELLING JESUS I FOLLOWED BKLYN....

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:06:33
Comments
Its gettin' spicy now

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:12:38
Comments
j_chito I WANTED TO SAY IT WILL,NT BE ME SAYING TO JESUS I FOLLOWED BKLYN. LOVE TO ALL IN CHRIST JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:29:10
Comments
JW Defender: . . . . .Did Jesus form the christian congregation first or condemn the Pharissee's first? I'm not sure, but I'll be glad to discuss it with you at www.jehovahs-witness.com. . . . . . . . .I would like to see less posts from "The Report" etc, just email each other, please

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:33:41
Comments
I SEE ALL THE WT ZOMBIES HAVE NOT TRYED TO QUESTION ANY OF MY POSTS J-CHITO@man.com because a simple review of the bible and the wt teachings prove they are a false christ to any interested jw,s in the bronx or lower westchester who truly want to know about the watchtower don,t be shy i know a kingdom hall that has a excelent library and can show you thousands of watchtower lies .if thwy have not cleared the shelves since the last time i,ve been there john tel. 19173710332

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
17:58:37
Comments
who is this jw jackass aug 7 14:0037 come on zombie read 5 22 90 pg 12 13 for you maybe TEN THOUSAND TIMES hope your mirror don,t crack cause i wouldnot be in your shoes on judgment day never heard you say followers of christ think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!you are condemened by your words you have no knowledge why jesus died onj the cross tyhats right on the cross there.s not one jw that can prove different with out half

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:07:41
Comments
who is this jw jackass aug 7 14:0037 come on zombie read 5 22 90 pg 12 13 for you maybe TEN THOUSAND TIMES hope your mirror don,t crack cause i wouldnot be in your shoes on judgment day never heard you say followers of christ think about it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!you are condemened by your words you have no knowledge why jesus died onj the cross tyhats right on the cross there.s not one jw that can prove different with out half quotes or wt garbage i did my HOMEWORK!!!!!!!!!!!! in 30 yrs i have not found one wt zombie who has done the research i have there is no jw flunky that can truely go to the public library or the bible to realisticly back up the wt fallacy. john tel 19173710332 call me and bare false witness in the name of the true creator. freedom in christ to all

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:05
Comments
I think your web site is very needed, and I check it every couple of days for updates. I fully support the Silentlambs march, and I hope it is still on... and hopefully even more thunderously since Bill,s disfellowshipping; because now, there is injustice upon injustice upon injustice!!! We know, do we not, that Jehovah HATES injustice?!! He himself WILL bring the organization into account for it... Just you mark those words!!! I want so much to march with all fo you, but my circumstances will not allow it at present. However, I will be watching the media coverage of it with my FULL support, and Jehovah's, rest assured. My love for all you who love justice and righteousness, JMD. (see Prov.21:3; 28:5; 29:7 NWT )

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:29
Comments
I am so happy that your site exists... I have left the WTS 4 years ago mainly because I have discovered the thruth about the WTS on the internet. But now the child molestation cases is really something that makes me react.Thank's again for letting us know what's happening on a regular basis. My daughter is married to an elder and I dont miss a chance to let them know the real situation about the WTS and child molestation situation ...Thanks to you again ! J-P. (jpbourassa.@sympatico.ca)

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:53
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:01
Comments
I think your web site is very needed, and I check it every couple of days for updates. I fully support the Silentlambs march, and I hope it is still on... and hopefully even more thunderously since Bill,s disfellowshipping; because now, there is injustice upon injustice upon injustice!!! We know, do we not, that Jehovah HATES injustice?!! He himself WILL bring the organization into account for it... Just you mark those words!!! I want so much to march with all of you, but my circumstances will not allow it at present. However, I will be watching the media coverage of it with my FULL support, and Jehovah's, rest assured. My love for all you who love justice and righteousness, JMD. (see Prov.21:3; 28:5; 29:7 NWT )

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:27:46
Comments
*****the mole***********Time has it where talks now are on gossip and the love of children. The ears of the weak are now being bent to hear the glory of the Society. Many of us have waited but none have come to address a real answer, for week i have sat and tried to read between the lines but no direct mention of any wrongdoing has been mentioned and will not be in the future. My friends and those of us with the same inclination have gathered silently and inquired over dinner the thoughts and ideas of NBC this past weekend. Whether the Organization wants to admit it or not, it was bad PR for them, and not addressing the issue has made it worse. The kindness of Jesus Christ seems so missing in our hall, any warmth of friendship seems to be replaced by a cold orgaizational approach that assumes the worst, gives no benfit of doubt, and viewed with forbearance patience as a weakness. Inimical to the intersts of the organization it has only one goal: uniformity and conformity. With its massive legal machine being put into motion and grinding along in an unfeeling, unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold. I find it hard to believe in some ways but my experience being involved with the religion since birth often negates that idea to defend the organization. I can think of nothing that would be more helpful to all of Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere to enable them to have a balanced, not a one-sided, view of what took place, the climate that prevails, these so called men connected to god to be so cold as to really think silencing members who cry out in pain, Reformation is the key and it begins from the inside out.......*******the mole***************

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:42:56
Comments
Nevermind y'all...I found the KM I was looking for. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
18:43:02
Comments
Nevermind y'all...I found the KM I was looking for. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
19:12:47
Comments
////*Hello, I am sending exerts from the media of statements made from a ‘spokesman' of the Jehovah Witnesses. The reason that I am sending this is to show that THE WT ORGANIZATION admit to knowingly allowing ‘known' pedophiles to minister door to door to the public, to us, to your family, friends, and neighbors! To knowingly allow a pedophile to go door-to-door and minister is potentially putting people and their children in danger. This has to be against the law! Isn't it? Please put a stop to this! The organization has admitted to having files on child molesters. They have admitted ‘internally investigating' accusations, how can they do this without the proper training?//// Louisville Courier-Journal, 1-4-01 J.R. Brown, director of public affairs for the Jehovah's Witnesses, Brown said PEDOPHILES are restricted from working with minors and must also be with a well-respected church member when they GO DOOR TO DOOR. PEDOPHILES also might not be SENT into neighborhoods where they might be recognized as molesters, Brown said. /////*But they are still sent to neighborhoods!///// Paducah Sun 2-12-01 Tennessean/ Nashville……………. Abuse charges put Witness at risk of shunning /////*They have kicked out the witnesses who are trying to help the victims! The ones trying to make this public in order to help us all!///// Saturday, 05/11/02 People in the organization who are accused of sex abuse are subject to a hearing like the one Anderson attended yesterday, Brown said. They are automatically removed from leadership positions and can't go door-to-door without other members' being present. *It is not usual that a door-to-door minister goes alone anyway, because of bible teaching. Anyway who really cares is a sexual abuser is with someone or not, they are still going door-to-door ministering whether they are with another or not makes no difference, they are still going with the Organizations blessings! /////* Comments in italic are my comments and not statements made to the media, which I am aware of. Since the guest book doesn't seem to do the italic thing, I will put my statements between the lines. (Loris, did you do some checking then?, since you posted your message I am thinking that you got some positive response. Not sure about publicly jumping off the fence post, you know what I mean, but I guess the cats out of the bag now!, very mixed feelings, always heard 'in for a penny, in for a pound' so... here's to pounds! :-) As Loris knows from our phone conversation, I spoke to a police officer in my community and asked him two questions...1. Is it legal for an organization of any kind, to allow 'known' pedophiles to go to people's homes i.e.: to sell, teach, do work, etc... He answered NO IT IS NOT LEGAL. 2. I asked, if an organization has made statements to the media stating that they do allow and send 'known pedophiles' to peoples homes, is that a public admission of guilt? He said YES. So, as you look at just the few statements above, not only do they admit in the media that they allow 'known pedophiles' to go door to door to minister, they also ADMIT IN THE MEDIA THAT 'THEY MAY NOT SEND THEM TO NEIGHBORHOODS THAT MAY KNOW THEM AS THE PERVERTS THAT THEY ARE!!!! THAT IS A TELLING STATEMENT AND MAKES ME WANT TO... CRY :-( WHO ARE THEY TO MINISTER TO ANYONE, SENDING PEDOPHILES OUT INTO THE WORLD IN THE GUISE OF TEACHING THE TRUTH! WT, I TRUSTED YOU; I ALWAYS THOUGHT THAT I FAILED YOU! AND I THOUGHT, BY DOING THAT I FAILED MY FATHER! FOR YEARS I LIVED FEELING LIKE I WAS NOT WORTHY! SHAME ON YOU, YOU STUPID STUPID MEN! SHAME SHAME SHAME!!!! I WILL NOT CRY, WELL, YES I WILL, I WILL .... IT'S WHO I AM. I AM ME, I AM WHAT MY FATHER WANTS ME TO BE, I MAY NOT LIKE WHAT I DO SOMETIMES, OR WHERE I AM AT IN LIFE……… SOMETIMES, BUT, I KNOW THAT THE FATHER LOVES ME AND THAT JESUS LOVES ME AND NO LONGER WILL YOU, WT, MAKE ME FEEL UNWORTHY OF STUPID STUPID MEN!////// lol guess my dander is up. I got my birds to bed; I'm going to go too! FYI, never turn a ‘almost completely empty' bottle of steak sauce upside down so that you can get the last drops!, IF you do, and open it while it is still upside down, it'll explode all over you and your kitchen!!!!!!!! Of course I am sure that a lot of people will have to wait to read it in a wt before believing it!, THAT is not bashing, IT'S BEING SARCASTIC!! It looks as though there is another here that likes to also be sarcastic! bonnielynn

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
19:21:27
Comments
REGARDING the the comment from the mole ----replaced by a cold orgaizational approach that assumes the worst, gives no benfit of doubt, and viewed with forbearance patience as a weakness. Inimical to the intersts of the organization it has only one goal: uniformity and conformity. With its massive legal machine being put into motion and grinding along in an unfeeling, unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold. //// As I read this I could almost imagine that you were speaking of Hitler and his followers! New System of things, New world order, New world order, New world translation, hummmmmm? something just isn't right about that, bonnielynn

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
20:14:41
Comments
Poor Defender. It is so sad that you feel bashed. Sometimes looking at things like your systems values just reminds me of how I need to be careful, to be vigilant in Christ's message with me, and others. Why do you wish to debate issues that have no substance? Why do you wish to waste your time? Why do you wish to waste my time? Are you trying to convolute the issues of physical (and spiritual) rape and abuse that is the forum here? (As for dogma) Has your religion ever believed something that turned out not to be true? If so then cut other religions some slack. According to the Sociologist “Stark” one should not comment on other religions unless they have been with them for some time and if you leave a sect then you must be disgruntled, and should be dismissed if you comment on your former faith. Does that only apply to your sect? Do you go to say the “Catholics” and attend church and get their point of view? (Before bashing them and the rest of the world) If not then cut some slack as you and other witnesses ask for.-Sequia

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
22:05:41
Comments
Moles Quote: . . .its massive legal machine being put into motion and grinding along in an unfeeling, unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold .. . . It's just a Good Quote

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
22:21:15
Comments
John: I think you have peoples' attention - mine anyway. Send a little background. I'm curious that for someone who has never been a Witness (1) how/why have you done the reseach you have, and (2) where you got the facility with the lingo - stuff like 'he puts in more time than you'. I also like reading the delicate way you have of making your point. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:46
Comments
Geez, all I asked for was a straight answer, never got one. What I did get was a lot of name calling. Since you all wont establish what your stance is on the TRUTH with simple answers to my simple questions, then there is no point to continue. Also, I see some are impressed with someone who believes Jesus died on a cross. Name calling, pagan beliefs, hate, no wonder this site is rarely visited by true Christians. Think about it. How much love is in here? Post something constructive for once. For those abused lambs, show them how they can heal with prayer and counsel. Do a search on those shiny WT cd's you didn't contribute anything for, and being a healing process for them. I wont hold my breath for that one either.

Remote User:

Date:
07 Aug 2002
Time:
23:46:02
Comments
Geez..You just don't get it and did not answer why. As for name calling was that not your game? Proof has been provided that the coverups of rape and molestation and abuse is fact in the rank and orders of the JW's (Read the newspapers and its on this site) and elders turn a blind eye or intentionaly silence people with threats and intimidation all the works of evil and you want to debate the value of the trinity. Don't you dare try to be a victim grow up!-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
00:11:46
Comments
hate to say this, but i agree with jw, too much bashing going on

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
00:22:19
Comments
SEQ – You are all over the place again. Establish what your current beliefs so people can determine whether or not your comments are worthwhile. Since you wont console the silentlambs this site was created for, if you're going to comment on the history of the WT, let people know where you stand today as a Christian. I don't expect you to debate trinity because you don't believe in it. But keep talking about what you don't believe in and you will lose a LOT of ears here. Stand up for your beliefs, like JW's do. Again, I wont hold my breath for a straight answer, I'll get stuff about pyramids, intimidation, etc.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:39:49
Comments
JW defender asked SLC: "Can you shed some light on how those sins are handled in your new org, whatever it is at this point?" ----- Answer: (a) Who ever said I joined ANOTHER ORG? (FYI: I am "org'd up to my gourd" for now.) Besides, who needs an ORG anyway (Opportunistic Religious Group)? See Mat. 18:20. (b) Read this over and over until it sinks in: Luke 6:37. ----- Then you asked, "How do [I] feel about adultery? Fornication?" Answer: See Rev. 21:8 for starters (and many others, which you are already well aware). ----- Then you state, "I'm sure the Catholic, Protestant, and Baptist crowd here is eager to see how you interpret God's law, and how it applies to those that break it." ----- Answer: Are there Catholics/Protestants/Baptists, etc. here? I didn't know that! I thought this was a JW site! You must have the "gift" of ESP (Extra Senile Presumptuousness). But, OK, I'll play along: If there ARE any Catholics/Protestants/Baptists reading this and committing fornication and/or adultery, please see 1 Cor. 4:4,5; 2 Tim.3:16; 1 Cor. 11:32; Heb. 12:6-24 (and, btw, notice WHO is doing the disciplining), and to top it off, Heb. 12:25: "See that you do NOT beg off from HIM WHO IS SPEAKING... Him who speaks FROM THE HEAVENS..." and Rev. 3:19 (again, notice WHO IT IS doing the reproving and disciplining). ----- Let me ask YOU a question, JW-D: What are you feeling so feisty about anyway? Have you been bitten by the Ministerial Serpent? Helpful Tip: Stop-Look-Listen! Sounds to me like you are thrashing about "directing your blows/striking into thin air" (1 Cor. 9:26). Chill! ----- You continued: " Give me a BREAK already with the talk about failed bible predictions ...Some prophets were even mistaken in their predictions. What would you say to them?” ----- Answer: How many erroneous predictions were made by prophets in the scriptures? Let's do a comparison: You can fill in this blank: The prophet(s) in the Bible made ______ wrong predictions. However, just as a sampling, the WTS made 12 predictions that I know of, which did not come true: 'Ever since the very beginning in the 1870s, the WTS for about 55 years (1876-1931) persistently taught that Christ had arrived invisibly in 1874... then they taught that the "remnant" of Christ's church would be changed (1 Thess. 4:17), first in 1878, then in 1881, then in 1914, then in 1915, then in 1925... then they taught that the end of the present system of things would come in 1914, then in 1918-20, then in 1925, then in 1941-42, and again in 1975, and again by 2000... " Shall I continue? Thanks to http://www.607v587.com/ for that documentation, but if you need more, please go to http://users.rcn.com/jjrizo/thelist.doc for 247 PAGES of Failed Watchtower Predictions.) ----- You continued further: "I'll say it again, no matter how many verses you quote, no matter how flowery the language you use, no matter how many quotes from 1901 you use, this site amounts to a JW bashing party." ----- Correction: Not a JW bashing party, but a FDS/GB/WTS bashing party <adding music, everyone join in and sing together now> "It's My Party and I'll Bash If I Want To, Bash If I Want To! You Would Bash Too If It Happened To You!" ----- JW Defender continued: "How often has a child abuse victim benefited from your inane observations?" ----- Answer: For your information, WE (now adult) child abuse victims/survivors are benefiting WONDERFULLY from each other's company here, and enjoying ourselves immensely, I might add. Again, I ask: What is YOUR problem, anyway? Are you feeling left out of the party? There are either of TWO "rules" for joining THIS party: (a) You ADVOCATE for Silent Lambs because you are a GOOD person who can SEE THRU the society's hypocrisy; OR (b) You or any of your children or family can become a sex abuse victim themselves by letting the congregation pedophile babysit them, go out in service with them, run into them in the KH bathroom, parking lot, etc. ----- JW Defender continued: "Oh, before I forget, when you reply, please include your view on the Trinity." ----- Answer: Trinity: Definition: Two JW-pedophiles going door-to-door. When they meet up with the little unsuspecting child at the door, that makes a threesome (a/k/a trinity, 3-in-1). Why are you even asking about the Trinity anyway? Who cares about the trinity doctrine? You're way out in space somewhere, imo. ----- JW Defender asked more questions: "Also, tell us who is the Faithful and Discreet slave, since you know so much." ----- Simple Answer: The one whom the Master, UPON HIS ARRIVAL, FINDS HIM DOING SO. (Luke 12:43-53, and notice the "division" in the "house" of the believers at this time also.) "Let the Reader Use Discernment!" (Mark 13:14) ----- Sigh & Yawn, as JWD continues still further: "Since you're so versed in scripture, go into a detailed explanation of why you think it is biblically wrong when the bible makes it oh so crystal clear that to establish a matter two to three witnesses are necessary." ----- Should I really have to even remind you to use your own brain-power here? (Sorry, I forgot you didn't have any. OK, out of COMPASSION I'll explain it to you.) (Btw, DO feel free to give your OWN detailed explanation of why you DO think Jesus & Jehovah would even EXPECT such a thing in child rape cases. Are their hearts as Pharisaically-crusted-over as yours is?) Better yet, K.I.S.S. this scriptural admonition (Keep It Simple Stupid): "LET YOUR REASONABLENESS BECOME KNOWN TO ALL MEN." (Php. 4:5) How REASONABLE is it to EXPECT a rapist to invite "two or three witnesses" to the event? Deut. 19:15 and Mt. 18:16. How REASONBLE do YOU and the GB look to ALL MEN on this matter? Additionally, read the CONTEXT of Mat. 18:16! For pete's sake, fella (or lady), what Jesus was talking about there was NOT CHILD RAPE & MOLESTATION, but as the heading at the top of the page says in the NWT Reference Bible, it is concerning "SETTLING FAULTS" & NOT GROSS CRIMES. AND, if you INSIST on applying Mat. 18:16 to child rape/molestation where there were only TWO witnesses (the child and the rapist), then why do you not also APPLY VERSE 17 and get the ENTIRE CONGREGATION INVOLVED IN THE CONFRONTING OF THE PERVERT? Please DO advise at your earliest opportunity why, when the pervert denies what he has done to the elders in the back room, why don't the elders march him out in front of the entire congregation and present the Perv and the abused child and their testimony to the ENTIRE CONGREGATION as verse 17 says to do???! And then let the congregation as a whole have a GO at their pervert "brother." TELL US WHY THAT is NOT DONE per Mat. 18:16,17?? Additionally, what did Jehovah do with your cowardly, MISapplied "two witness" rule anyway? Read Jehovah's Lips: "He... BLOTTED OUT the handwritten document against us, which CONSISTED OF DECREES and which was IN OPPOSITION TO US; and He has TAKEN IT OUT OF THE WAY by NAILING IT to the torture stake." (Col. 2:14) What did He leave us instead? "THE KINGLY LAW." (James 2:8--and read verse 9 also!). Still not enough? What did Jesus say about the scribes and Pharisees who NIT-PICKED him to pieces about their "handwritten document" (Mosaic Law/Rules/Regs) re: David's men eating the showbread, or the sheep who fell into the pit on the Sabbath, etc. etc.? (Mt. 12:1-14). Read all of Mat. Chapter 23, too: "They bind up HEAVY LOADS and put them upon the shoulders of men (AND Abused Women and Children)." (vs. 4) --- "They BROADEN the SCRIPTURE-CONTAINING CASES that they WEAR AS SAFEGUARDS." (vs.5) (Perfect example is the WT "Broadening" the two-witness rule completely OUT of proportion in order to attempt to COVER THEIR A*****). --- "Blind Guides, who STRAIN OUT THE GNAT but GULP DOWN THE CAMEL." (vs.24) (i.e., Who strain OUT the abused child but GULP DOWN the Perverts.) --- "...You have DISREGARDED the WEIGHTIER MATTERS of the Law, namely, JUSTICE and MERCY and FAITHFULNESS." (vs.23) (i.e., No Justice, Mercy or Faithfulness shown to the abuse victims, but let's go testify in court on behalf of the Pedophile for ALL THE WORLD TO SEE! Talk about Disregarding the Weightier Matters!) --- "They [GB] LIKE... to be called Rabbi [NWT Reference Bible Footnote for Rabbi: "MY GREAT EXCELLENT ONE"] by men." (vs. 6,7) --- "Neither be called [GB] LEADERS, for your Leader is ONE, THE CHRIST." [Note: NOT the GB but THE CHRIST!] ( vs. 10) --- "WOE to you scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because you TRAVERSE THE SEA & DRY LAND TO MAKE ONE [JW] PROSELYTE, and when he BECOMES ONE, you make him a subject for GEHENNA TWICE AS MUCH as yourselves." (vs.15) --- "WOE TO YOU, scribes and [WTS] Pharisees, hypocrites! because you CLEANSE the OUTSIDE of [the Org via your PR Dept.] but INSIDE [you] are FULL of PLUNDER and IMMODERATENESS." (vs.25) --- "... whitewashed graves... In that way YOU ALSO, OUTWARDLY INDEED APPEAR RIGHTEOUS TO MEN, but INSIDE YOU are FULL of HYPOCRISY and LAWLESSNESS." (vs.27,28) Key word: LAWLESSNESS [i.e. CRIMINAL ACTIVITY] --- "...You are BEARING WITNESS AGAINST YOURSELVES that YOU are the sons of those who MURDERED the PROPHETS (by DF'ing the Silent Lambs Whistleblowers)." (vs.31) --- "SERPENTS! OFFSPRING OF VIPERS... FOR THIS REASON I am sending forth to you PROPHETS [abuse victims who tried to speak up] and WISE MEN [elders who tried to speak up] and PUBLIC INSTRUCTORS [Silent Lambs and the MEDIA]. SOME OF THEM YOU WILL KILL [deny] and IMPALE [publicly deny], and some of them you will SCOURGE [shun] in YOUR [KH] SYNAGOGUES and PERSECUTE [DF] from CITY TO CITY..." (vs. 33-36) --- "Jerusalem, Jerusalem [WTS, WTS], the KILLER of the [SL] PROPHETS and the STONER of THOSE [SL Advocates] SENT FORTH TO HER [you]... How OFTEN I WANTED to GATHER YOUR [abused] CHILDREN TOGETHER (operative word: CHILDREN!!!!!), the way a hen gathers HER CHICKS together under her WINGS! BUT YOU PEOPLE DID NOT WANT IT. LOOK! YOUR HOUSE IS ABANDONED TO YOU." (vs.37-38). --- That is the MOST ALIVE & POWERFULLY EXERTING SCRIPTURE YET! Go ahead, deny deny deny!!! --- (BTW, check out Mt. 12:43-45 - watch out! the demons appear to have already TAKEN OVER your WT house.) - In other words, USE YOUR OWN BRAIN and powers of REASON Jehovah gave you and which your Lord & Master EXPECTS you to USE, rather than nit-picking the two/three witnesses COP-OUT-RULE and MISapplying it to CHILD RAPE as a means to DENY IT and COVER IT UP for the sake of WT "IMAGE." ----- Finally! We come to the end of JW-D's entreaties. He/she said: "Anyone that says “you will find it necessary to insert your foot into your mouth. Yummmm, How's About Some Tasty Toes, eh?” is a wise person and should be listened to. lol: ----- Reply & Grand Finale by SLC: I'm SO pleased to see you DO have a sense of humor! Open Wide, Insert Foot, and please don't leave your shoes and socks in the middle of the floor, now, you hear?

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:53:18
Comments
TO JW Defender: I have officially given you a name: SNOT-NOSE, since you are a typical self-righteous JW. (It takes one to know one). I continued to act the same way as you, spouting off all the typical JW self-righteous rhetoric, until a few months ago when the BRIGHT LIGHT (that keeps getting BRIGHTER & BRIGHTER about the REAL TRUTH of the WTS) finally would not let me shut my eyes to it any longer. Snot Nose is using all the same worn-old lines I used, and I have since seen them all scripturally and factually refuted (i.e., MUST meet w/congregation, must be in a building to "worship"! must have elders handle judicial matters, etc.etc. ad nauseum, ad infinitum, like a runny snotty nose...). Here's a suggestion Snot Nose: Get out of this ER, like Loris said, and please go sign up for this group at msn: Just JWs. It is a true bona-fide JW group. However, they have a Debate Forum, which you are too "young" to enter, so whatever you do, do NOT go into their "Debate Forum," as your SR (Self-Righteousness) will be given a run for its money, all with monumental scriptural and WT-literature backing by JWs just like you. /SLC --- BTW: Our "qualified doctor" is The Great Physician and Healer, Jesus Christ.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
02:58:50
Comments
I AGREE with whoever said let's slack off on the "debates" here at SL and take it to J-W.com or elsewhere. I AM DONE w/JW-D. -- In JW groups, they always say to IGNORE the "apostates." Well, I say in SL, we should IGNORE JW's such as JW Defender who, frankly, I can't figure out what his/her problem is. -- Good night all (great posts everybody, hope to reply to more soon). Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:00:59
Comments
DID EVERYONE GET A COPY OF B.BOWEN'S EMAIL FROM WED. NIGHT ABOUT WRITING LETTERS IF YOU ARE STILL A JW???? If anyone wants more info, let me know and I can zap you a copy of it! Time is running short, for Sunday 8/11/02. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:16:31
Comments
I have found this web site really interesting,although i am not a member of this group,i feel concern for all the victims and their familys who are involved.The more people who come out into the open to discuss this issue,i'm sure everyone will benefit in some way,the government bodies should really step in and sort this problem immediatly.Incest is a taboo,and should not be allowed to continue,I feel very stong about this,and thank you for letting me share my thoughts .

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
03:57:54
Comments
buster it,s john my father joined the wt some 30 yrs. ago when i was about 12 i was made to go to the hall for a year or so noone else in my family is a watchtowerite i went to catholic school till 5th grade always believed in god and learned the basics there. for years i heard every day i,m going to be destroyed for not becoming a member . notice i don,t call wt members jehovah's witnesses .because they are not . i know all the zombies in co-op city bx i remember 1975 and hering that that wt pitch a 1000 times about the generation if 1914. and being laughed at for not believing it you know that stupid wt smirk like they know something you don,t .tell me another bed time story. i remember my father sick for 2 yrs. in the early 90,s not go to the doctor because the 1914 generation was due to end any day .what a fool he had cancer had he went to the doctor right away he would be able to use the toilet today. one day 3 yrs ago my brother and i were taking my father to task about a wt mag that said how great it was to quit your job and push watchtowers. we were whipping him pop said the wt is the TRUTH and all that other crap but he but he made a mistake he challanged me to do all the research on the wt i wanted they had nothing to hide. i was amazed all the new wt,s called the old wt books bible truth so i went to the hall and read up day after day i would show pop how they lie about thier past present and future it,s comical with limited bible knowledge i whipped the whole cong. elders po,s co,s they called me a demon in the kh library for exposing a new wt all lies about what was really in those old wt,s the new wt was glorifying.week after week they made fools of them selves when you bust them they just stand there with that stupid smirk on their face. and say you don,t understand what your reading you need a study. this is so funny right now i can,t stop laughing.but really it,s sad to see all these wt ites i know so blind when they go into the field in co-op city they run from me ever see an 80 year old lady run.you know i,m a demon? i always stop and blow up their pitch when i see them talking to someone . the elders told me their going to take me to court . i said go right ahead i,ll sue you and the wt for trying to take away my freedom of speech.they didn,t know what to say they just stood there like ZOMBIES. idrive a truck in the bronx i stop some times 4 5 times a day and ask members if the wt mag is inspired by god they half the time say yes i say them if they truely follow the bible they say yes after they commit themselves etc. i bust them with the material their holding in thier hands a few bible verses all of a sudden the bible has made them liars it,s so easy i set ,em up like bowling pins when i drop the boom they look like ZOMBIES> cause they know i caught them in lies . but at times if i get one alone who,s new they will listen and i give them tons of wt lies to look up hopeing some will see the light i love to work on black people with all the beautiful things the wt has printed about them remember if you pray hard enough you can become white they love that one. it,s a shame how little these people know even members for 40 50 yrs. they all idolize the wt not jesus i have never heard one tell me to come to jesus i know it,s pleasing to god to expose the wt daily .only the lord of the bible could make me so effective.so my question is i see on the internet many who are better versed than i do you do gods will and expose the wt at every chance i know i do freedom in christ to all john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
04:48:45
Comments
i gave a few simple answers as for the truth you can,t be talking about the teaching of the wt! take your head out of the sand.it,s one lie after another using the name jehovah to golrify the wt.just look at all the child rapist the wt harbors i know a wt pervert in co-op city bx ny his mane is carl gorlsh iv,e seen him many times touch women talk dirty to them grab young girls tell how nicely thier developing talk to women about different sex acts and how they like it.etc and i got witnesses who knows what he does when no one is around i.ve seen him giving the wt pitch and touching at the same time .i know hes gotten complaints. if you live in the bronx he may be at your door. you want to tell me these are gods choosen people . i can,t wait till the law raids the wt office and expose the 23720 molesters then when one of the rapists from your cong. go to trial you can go to court and put your hand on the bible stand there like a good wt zombie and tell the court what a great person he is and how the god of brooklyn said he,s not guilty don,t worry the wt lawyers will instruct you how to decieve the jury shun the raped children then you can walk away knowing your words were pleasing to jehovah in bklyn.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:02:34
Comments
RE: JW BASHING AND WHAT IT IS ABOUT REALLY....for myself I have been betrayed by what I thought was Jehovah's organization. I unknowlingly supported policies,by association with the WTS, that harmed other christians in the organization. The WTS acted without love towards the Malawi's, acted without love towards the ones who have been molested or raped, and/or physically/emotionally abused and continued to put these ones in harms way. ************I read Awake magazines that although a red flag came up, I ignored it - these articles promoted the UN and then I find out that the WTS belongs to the UN.******************I would not tolerate this behavior from a family member or a friend. ******************* It is a bit like finding out your spouse is a liar, a cheat, and has put you in harm's way.*************You said it yourself that it is coming from hurt, bitterness and anger - at myself for being so naive & stupid, and for having trusted the WTS with my spiritual well-being. And like having an unfaithful spouse who doesn't care, they continue to lie or cover-up the problem. And there can be no reconcilation under those circumstances. This is grievious. ********************* I care very much about the ones who have been harmed by rape and molestation. This is why I left and why I am here at SL. This is why I support Bill Bowen's efforts to make public this travesty.*******the so called bashing is a reaction to the very things we all once where seduced by to our own detriment and blindness. A Trust was betrayed - this is a very serious offense against the human spirit. Jehovah hates a liar. *********** Everyone here is a lover of Jehovah. From what I read and know, the ones who post here are actively doing what they can to help those who have been harmed and to prevent others from being harmed in the future by this policy the WTS promotes about two witnesses. **************************** Any person who comes here who has been harmed is warmly comforted. This is all that we can do here. It is so little. Someone has to be here when they come - so we wait.***************************THE TRUTH is not the exclusive property of the JW's - or the WTS to do with what they want. Knowledge of the TRUTH does not give anyone the priviledge to harm, or treat people with contempt. We are all appalled at what the WTS has done with The Truth - absolutely appalled. We are appalled at what we ourselves have done in the past with the Truth - lording over the worldly people, judging them, pat answers for complexity, having no interest in others except as a potential sheep is appalling.*********The bitterness, the sadness, the anger expressed here is an appropriate safe place to do this. People who have been oppressed have to find expression.*******WTS/JW's won't let anyone express a concern without immediately oppressing.******** I had found the truth and then found out that the deliver of the truth is a liar and a cheat - well it is heartbreaking, spiritually devastating and cynical. "Doctrine" is an integral part of this sham, so it is discussed. WTS is an integral part of this sham in relationship to "doctrine" so they are looked at with contempt.**********************To be lied to, manipulated, uncared for, kept quiet or else, by the deliverer of truth is crazy-making.****** People are just plain pissed off. I know I am.******************Jusified anger isn't ungodly.((((((((((((The WTS by calling themselves the Faithful and Discreet Slave are suppose to be responsible and care for the ones they have caused harm to-that is ungodly.)))))))))))))))))))The WTS has the biggest responsibility to do this and they did not and will not. If they had - we all wouldn't be here*******************glady. C.E.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:46:15
Comments
to that big wt defender i,ll tell you what i do to help wt kids since most of the wt zombies i talk to daily are women i tell them about all i know about wt and child molesters then i ask them if they know any i get some looks like some do if they got enough brains to listen a rare thing, maybe some will open thier eyes and rat out a wt molester but most times when i talk about wtmolester court cases and how the molester gets patted on the back. they stand there like zombies and tell me i,m lying or try to change the subject and ask me if i know what the kingdom is . funny how they want thier mags back after i blow-up thier pitch. the definition of a member of the wt is one who speaks presumptuously. on the cross did they not find a cross on the wall with the name JESUS in that city that was buried by the volcano in 79 A.D. i know that follower of christ in the 1st. century put that cross on the wall to persecute the wt. i know jehovah in brooklyn would approve of that answer.you must need a study.got some delicious spritual food guaranteed not to give you tomaine poisoning until the new light of next weeks watchtower. john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
05:55:42
Comments
Proof is in the pudding- who is grieving??? The WTS or Silentlambs? Who wants reconcilation - WTS or Silentlambs? Who is tightening the control with videos and KM propaganda, intimidating with threats of DFing? Who calls everyone apostate to shut them up and puts the fear of God into anyone that listens to them? Who has been bashing & abusing victims of rape and the molested and their families for years??? Who teaches that this is the love? Who cares if Jesus died on a cross or a stake - the point is he died so we can live. Who cares if Armageddon comes today or tomorrow or 1,000 years from now- we just know it will come. Our walk with Christ is our walk and no one else can walk in our footsteps. Hell does not match up with God's mercy and love. The trinity makes a mockery out of "God loved the world so much that he gave his ONLY BEGOTTEN SON." There is no religion that can save us. We are to imitate Jesus - period. He loved the poor, the broken in spirit, the oppressed - that is what we are to do while we are here and in this way we advertise God's Kingdom. To give hope and comfort now as a "foreshadow" for the things to come. *****************to be oppressing people while preaching the good news is not good advertising for God's Kingdom.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:09:21
Comments
a great place to start the wt march would be at the #2and 5 subway station at boro hall bklyn. the wt has a big propagander stand there right next to the court house we can march the gb straight to the court and have a public trial right on the steps just like in the bible then if convicted let the silent lambs tie them to the columns and stone them with thier books from the wt stand. i can,t wait to be there. john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:44:43
Comments
Hey everyone.....I've sat and read all the bantering back and forth, slamming and name calling. It seems to me to be a complete waste of time and really serves no purpose, other than to get people all upset. I think it's important that we keep things on topic here, this site is for the molested/raped/abused children of JW's. Much has been going on in that effort, so I see no point in all the doctrine discussions and arguing. There are numerous group sites where this would be more appropriate. 'Nuf said. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
06:44:48
Comments
Hey everyone.....I've sat and read all the bantering back and forth, slamming and name calling. It seems to me to be a complete waste of time and really serves no purpose, other than to get people all upset. I think it's important that we keep things on topic here, this site is for the molested/raped/abused children of JW's. Much has been going on in that effort, so I see no point in all the doctrine discussions and arguing. There are numerous group sites where this would be more appropriate. 'Nuf said. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:27:10
Comments
i heard and read that article about 2005 it,s hard to explain it because of the way it was written wt zombies may discuss it among them selves most are too blind to see it thats why thier still members!!!i tryed to pin my pop on that one as usual he went into fallacies in argumention . and hung up the phone his favorite way out when i catch the wt in another lie. but i got a better one on the back page of i think may 2000 or 2001wt they go into million now living will never die .they are talking about today. that would mean that a baby born today lets say he lived to 100 yrs. that would mean the world will end in his life time . somebody look it up i know it,s on the back page of a wt in the last 2 yrs. i,ve made many wt zombies fume trying to talk thier way out of that one . maybe one of you big time wt defenders can post that beaut of prophecy. then explain it.but you won,t want to discuss it . i know you only want to talk how gods sprit directed org. is protecting the children from brother molest-a lot..john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:39:09
Comments
i never knew you were there! i cried when i saw the site today. After all these years my experiences find a home, a voice, a listener. Thanks

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
07:49:55
Comments
for all you wt supporters you think god choose the wt and c.t.russell as the fdsin 1874 81 or at any time go to this site it has everything russell ever wrote. http//www.agsconsulting.com/htdbv5/start.htm it,s a lot of work but i like to prove all things true remember new light never contradicts old light if you have trouble finding th e good stuff give me a call i,ll help you . next time your reading a wt and it calls some russell teaching bible truth you can look it up . how do you think i found out the wt is full of s__t. J_CHITO@msn.com

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
08:53:14
Comments
SLC *** YOU GO GIRL!!!!! Now that every topic brought up by the unfortunate soul with the "foot in mouth" disease has been covered we can get back on the topic of Child Molestation and other forms of abuse. Thank for getting that cleared up for us. You were eloquent. Love Y'all, Loris

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
09:23:38
Comments
I THINK THIS VERY HELPFUL. WE FINALLY CAN TALK ABOUT THINGS WITHOUT BEING JUDGED THAT WE'RE SPIRITUALLY WEAK AND DO NOT LOVE JAH. I HAVE NEVER EXPERIENCED ABUSE BUT DO GIVE MY HEART ALL TO HAVE. I HAVE AN 5MOS OLD AND 2 1/2 YR OLD AND HAVE DECIDED I WILL RAISE THEM TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND NOT BE JUDGEMENTAL OF OTHERS. TO GIVE OTHERS ALWAYS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT. I WILL FOREMOST PROTECT THEM FROM THE ABUSE WITHIN THE ORG. I ONLY LET MY PARENTS AND HUSBAND WATCH MY CHILDREN AND A VERY FEW SELECTED FRIENDS. I DO NOT LET TEENAGERS WATCH MY CHILDREN. SO MY HEART AND PRAYERS GOES OUT TO EACH AND EVERY LAMB OUT THERE! I LOVE YOU ALL FOR JUST BEING YOU! CC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
09:37:54
Comments
Nameless,(JW-Def I assume) you keep holding your breath. Once again I will try to be clear. I have not seen where SL is about establishing my beliefs. But I will establish this foundation. Spousal abuse and the rape of a child is not just a sin, they are crimes. JW's are working to defend and covet these types of perpetrators and then send them out into a society that is unaware of the danger that is knocking at their door. That is what this site is about giving people information to protect themselves. If the JW policy makers change their view on protecting and rewarding criminal behavior then this site would focus its attention on helping heal the wounds that are created when rape, physical, and mental violence destroys lives. I have no doubt that either you or some other of your type will be coming to my door at some point. After you walk next to the big American flag waving proudly at my front door then I will share my beliefs with you. I hope you hear what I say. But here, I will not engage in a theocratic debate. That is not what I am here for. I am here to try and help encourage and give support to the people who have bravely chosen to stand up and stand with each other against a shadow like enemy that seeks to cause what is meant by spiritual division. If you will not respect why, and what most of us are here for then you will continue to be pushed aside.-Sequia(SEQ)

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:37
Comments
Bill isn't trying to start a doctrinal fight here as far as who is right about the trinity, the origins of holidays, or whether to wear pantyhose to the meeting or not. His main focus is the kids who report their abuse. Let's keep that in mind, folks.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
10:57:03
Comments
Trying to clean up the inside of the Watchtower organization(with their child abuse situation) is a good thing. However I do understand how other people see the benefit of just getting out of it. Trying to clean out the inside of the Watchtower is like trying to clean out the inside of a garbage can. There is so much other trash that it holds also. Like all kinds of teachings that a regular person would never come up with. The scriptures have simple truths and also more complicated truths, but I sure don't believe that there is only a few (out of 5 billion people on the earth) that can "decode" Gods word. This is an example of a dirty rags that we find in the garbage can. _____________"But Jehovah God has also provided his visible organization, his "faithful and discreet slave," made up of spirit anointed ones, to help Christians in all nations to understand and apply properly the Bible in their lives. Unless we are in touch with this channel of communication that God is using, we will not progress along the road of life, no matter how much Bible reading we do." (The Watchtower 12/1/1981,p.27) So as you can see we have a problem with authority. The organization in my opinion does not take any members concerns as being valid, because they are the ultimate authority speaking for and representing God. We have a wide problem here and unfortunalty this spills into almost every aspect of peoples lives.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
11:33:17
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
12:34:49
Comments
very good that the matter is out. romans 13 says we must be in subjection to "caesers" authority, for it is jehovahs public servant, and it carries the sword for the bad deed.how is the society and elders obeying the superior authorities when it turns a blind eye to serios wrong doing? peter even said"let none of u suffer as an evil doer". but nothing can be so carefully hidden that it cannot be revelaed, for all is laid bare before jehovah, and all must render account for what they do, mark 4:22 luke 12:2-3 hebrews 4:13 romans 14:12. and before the end comes jehovah "will" clean his house out 1 peter 4:17.............and this could be jehovah cleaning his house out.it seems it was covered up so for the image of the church, but anybody that knows the bible surely should know that nothing can be covered up.look at examples of david, achan, eli hophni and phineas.jehovah cannot be mocked galatians 6:7 the society cannot now judge other religons until it itself cleans its act up. pmd scotland

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
13:18:22
Comments
Dear ones, I too was a victim as well as my 11 year old son. My experience is 18 pages long. However, I would like to share it with you, but I need an address to send it to. Please send me a mailing address. I would also like to know if you can direct me to Jay Walter's experience. My dear friend told me to read it, but I can't find it on your site of "silent lambs" Could you please direct me to it. Thank you, csz1914@cs.com

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
15:32:49
Comments
Hello, my name is Mark Palo and I can be contacted at >>>>palo50@juno.com<<< Several years ago I came forward and told my story to Randall Watters and he published it on his Free minds web site. I had no idea that there was such an underground of others who had suffered as I had. As I have read the multitude of postings, talked to victims and viewed the two television programs I was shaken by the numbers. What happened to me over 40 years ago has paled by some of your experiences. I can not believe the arrogance and sheer mendacity of the Society in their dealings with the victims.I at age 52 still suffer from PTSD, anxiety and panic attacks due to my experiences and treatment at the hands of the Watchtower. What has totally angered me are the ones in the organization who deny it, and blow this entire thing off as apostate ravings. These people are nothing but cretins. I was raped right at Bethel by a Bethelite. My parents where under the illusion that if one was a JW one could do now wrong. Even in my town of Lowell, MA. the Witnesses have called me a liar, apostate and demonized. The last I don't understand, because since when does telling the truth make you demonized? The first two I understand because this is the way they deal with anyone who dares to speak out and tell of their experiences. I was told by one elder that I had fabricated this in my mind. I ask, how does one fabricate PTSD and all the other symptoms to several highly trained psychologists and psychiatrists? But then the Watchtower thinks psyhcology is a Witch doctors remedy anyway. Peace, Mark Palo

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
15:53:17
Comments
i see a lot of people here don,t like my posts me calling watchtowerites zombies showing the wt lies weekly about thier past .what does that have to do with the silent lambs. alot ...3 yrs. ago i exposed the wt to the zombies i know in the bronx i shown many how the wt lies ,contradicts it self calls false prophecy bible truth.etc. etc.etc.in every instance they just stand there like zombies and say anything to defend the wt. no problem believe what you want. but now were talking about kids being molested. this is a total diffent ball game. these zombies all tell me it,s all lies.etc. it this point i want to take a stick and put up thier butt to see how they like it . then i tell them you can,t complain because you don,t have 2 witnesses. so see the whole wt community is an a acessary to these unspeakable crimes by defending the wt at any cost . i say put all these zombies in jail who defend the wt policy on molesters and they can learn first hand what it,s like to be molested in jail .cause in jail i don,t think you can find 2 witnesses.and remember the jehovah in bklyn won,t want to slander the good name of your fellow inmates . john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
16:22:58
Comments
John, I am a Bronx native transplanted to Taxachusetts. Might I ask what part of the Bronx you are from. I came from the Upper Bronx Cong and then the University Heights Cong.We might have mutual aquaitances. Mark Palo

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
17:41:20
Comments
Mark i,m from c o-op city or the old gun hill cong. area every zombie in co-op city knows me my father is brother quido he sometimes goes to the italian meetings he hangs out with that german pervert carl grolsh and for all you wt spys out there my father goes to birthday,thankgiving,x-mas partys etc. and he don,t believe everything the wt teaches.don,t forget to get a picture of my truck to post in the halls cause i,m hitting the zombies hard about the child molesters in the wt didn,t i hear 2 gb members were homosexual sounds like gods arangement to me mark didn,t i hear about your story on another site if this happened to you in the bronx feel free to call me i,ll make a big stink here they won,t like it and expose the scum to all the members in the bronx by the time i get finished they will have to df him.J_CHITO@msn.com tel 9173710332 i get free nights and weekends. may the grace of the lord be with you. john

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
17:51:00
Comments
**************The mole********Historically, the aim has been , not to aid the individual or to provide basis for reasoning with him, but to incriminate, to convict as herietical when matters of shame come to the fore. Initiating the inquiry often has nothing to do with the individual's being disruptive, malicious or even being particularly vocal about his beliefs. Mere suspicion is sufficient cause to set in motion the inquisitory action. The suspect is viewed as, in effect, having no rights: even his personal conversation with intimate friends are treated as something the inquisitores have full right to delve into. Its not solely the atrocious acts of punishment meted out in the spanish inquisition that earned it such a despised name, is also th authoritarian approach and arrogant methods of interrogation employed to gain the incrimination so often zealously pursued by the religious judicial court. The toruture and the violent punshment meted out then are outlawed today. But the authouritaritoan approach and arrogant methods or interrogation can still be practiced with apparent impunity. My experience in dealing with those removed can be truthfull said that none of the persons disfellowsipped had any thought of separating themselves from the organization nor had they any thought of encouraging others to separate. This should answer your doubts why i remain. I believe and truly think that spiritial guidance always was governed by the extent to which god's word was adhered too; to that extent god grants his guidance or withdraws it. I think that is true for any individual or any collective group of people, whoever you are..........The mole****

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:01:03
Comments
WELCOME "CSZ" <csz1914@cs.com> and we are sorry to hear you and your son suffered abuse as well! We hope you are doing OK, and we would love to hear/read your story! You asked for Jay Walter's story. His story is not at this SL website. He was not an abused lamb that I know of. Here is the link to his story: <http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm> You also asked where to send your story. Address and Email info for Silent Lambs is on the HOME PAGE of this site, left-hand column, bottom "blue bar." Love/SLC --- EMAIL (To SL): To discuss the SL website, write to <Editor@silentlambs.org>. To offer assistance to the cause of SL, write to <Assistance@silentlambs.org>. If you want/need help, write to <Help@silentlambs.org>. If you prefer to correspond via US Mail, the address is: Silentlambs, P O Box 311, Calvert City, KY 42029.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:05:13
Comments
Buster wrote: "...Brother Roman Fingers..." - Buster, crack me up! I have not heard that expression (Roman Fingers) since high school! And so true what you wrote about the BIGGER ISSUE (not the victims' stories only, but the HANDLING of those cases, etc.) --- BTW, WELCOME BUSTER, since I had not yet got around to saying that. Your thoughts are appreciated. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:07:46
Comments
Some OTHER "Buster" comments to JW-Defender which I thoroughly enjoyed "I have a dream ... - Buster." (LOL!) and "I also like reading the delicate way you have of making your point. - Buster." (The calm way in which you express yourself, Buster, impresses me sincerely! Keep the thoughts coming! /SLC)

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:10:01
Comments
NY Truck Driver John: Your "subtle" approach reminds me of a construction worker's jack hammer! ;) <just kidding & welcome back, I've seen your posts in the past> We each have our own personalities which shine through in our posts -- which, btw, I enjoy immensely getting to know everyone via their heartfelt expressions -- some are noble and eloquent, clear and precise (Loris & Claudine/CE); some humorously spunky (Bonnielynn); some mysteriously insightful (Mole); some calm and reasoned (Buster); some overflow with firey righteous indignation (Penny); some mince no words/tell it like it is (Jesika), some blazing, brutal honesty (DJB), etc. -- "In proportion AS EACH ONE HAS RECEIVED a GIFT, use it in ministering to one another as fine stewards of God's underserved kindness EXPRESSED IN VARIOUS WAYS." (1 Peter 4:10) -- (Ahhhh, that's why I love the Bible. There is ALWAYS the PERFECT scripture describing every thought/emotion/situation under the sun.) -- As for me? I'd have to put myself in the "dry, irreverent wit" department. ;) -- Love to everyone today! /SLC (PS: No slighting intended to those I may have left out... can't remember everybody right now, but love ya just the same and thanks for all your comments! Each one helps promote the healing for all concerned.)

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:13:04
Comments
JMD wants to go to the Silent Lambs NY March but cant. --- I know exactly how you feel! I would love to be there! We will have to go "in spirit." Thanks for your comments. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:10
Comments
TO EVERYONE********************************** I must say I am very saddened by what I am reading here. I have only been off the site for maybe a week. What used to be a thriving community of support for abuse victims has turned into biblical debt and un-needed info about the WT. Why don't all of you go back about a month or more and read the posts then. They were all about helping Bill, others, and doing something about the policy. I hang my head at what I have been reading. Why even bother arguing with a "JW defender"?????????? The name says it all, and if no one would post a responce--the JW will get tired of not having the reation they are looking for and they will LEAVE on their own. The only thing arguing does is hurt us and give them the upper hand and reason to stay and cause more trouble. Why argue with a JW who still believes it is the truth, they won't listen to anything you say, only try to make sure you know they are right and you are wrong!!!!!!!!!!!! Come on people, we used to be one of them, stop and think about it---don't get mad and post back---noone is winning in this-----noone. I will not post unless it gets back to the reason why this site is here. I refuse to be ANY PART of this bickering!!! We are survivors of abuse and you are letting this JW abuse you further----only YOU can make it stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx PS If you were a victim and came in here new to the site, would you stay with all this going on??? How many people have come and left without us knowing, and may need us, but will not be back because of this stuff going on. I don't want that on my conscience. Just food for thought, stop feeding a stray and it will stop coming back!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:39
Comments
To the person who wrote: "hate to say this, but i agree with jw, too much bashing going on." ----- I would have to respectfully reply that, If You Can't Take the Heat, Please Get Out of the Kitchen. -- As Loris, Claudine, SEQ and others have precisely and truthfully described, the indignation/resentment/anger at the WTS for it's [abusive] "war crimes" is wholly and righteously justified. Expression IS HEALING, and together we are washing each other's "dirty laundry of abuse" [experiences/pain]. It's a group effort. And it works. (If it ain't broke, don't fix it.) -- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:18:48
Comments
Please read my post above ----------Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:05
Comments
" HAVE I GOT A MILLSTONE FOR YOU." (NY Truck Driver/John to JW Defender). ----- I gotta tell ya John, even in your righteous tirades, your humor shows thru! Thanks for the laugh! We need all we can get! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:27:48
Comments
Bro. Mole wrote: "Many of us have waited but none have come to address a real answer, for weeks i have sat and tried to read between the lines but no direct mention of any wrongdoing has been mentioned and will not be in the future." ----- Mole, that is EXACTLY the "salt in the open wounds;" i.e., the fact that there has been No Humbling of itself on the part of the WTS, No Admission of Error by them; there has been No Apology or Comforting Gesture toward the victims and their advocates; there has been No Change in WTS Policy; and as you rightfully state, none will be forthcoming (their ongoing hard-ball actions PROVE that). My best advice? Don't anyone "hold their breath." Love, /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:34:45
Comments
There is nothing worse than adults who pray on young inocents and no religion worse than the one that protects those animals. Julian Paniagua

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:44:41
Comments
Thanks to whoever quoted this: "...we will NOT progress along the ROAD of LIFE, NO MATTER HOW MUCH BIBLE READING WE DO." (The Watchtower 12/1/1981,p.27) ----- Does that sound like blasphemy [of the Holy Spirit] to anyone, or is it just me? What about Ps. 119:105-107, "YOUR [Jah's] WORD is a lamp to my foot and a light to my ROADWAY [Jah's WORD, not the WTS' words!]. I have made a sworn statement, and I will carry it out, To keep YOUR righteous judicial decisions. I have been afflicted to a great extent. O Jehovah, PRESERVE ME A-L-I-V-E A-C-C-O-R-D-I-N-G TO Y-O-U-R W-O-R-D." ----- Compare also Joshua 1:8. ----- And how about Philippians 2:16, "Keep[ing] a TIGHT GRIP on the WORD OF LIFE." -- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
18:55:53
Comments
WELCOME MARK PALO!!! Thanks for sharing your painful story! What you say is PROFOUND and so true ("you made it up in your mind;" denial by the cretins; shock at the numbers of abused coming out; arrogance of the WT in their dealings with the victims, etc.). You ask: "...since when does telling the truth make you demonized?" -- Answer: When the TRUTH does not "Tickle the Ears" of those hearing that TRUTH! When telling the TRUTH might rip-open the Devil's Cover-Up! -- You also asked: "...how does one fabricate PTSD and all the other symptoms...?" -- Answer: As you know all too well, one cannot/does not put on an "act" of PTSD symptoms. No one would wish PTSD on their worst enemy. Sadly, those symptoms were given birth deep into every fiber of the frightened child or teen at the time of their abuse. Your cong and the WTS may not VALIDATE your experience and pain but WE DO! You HAVE BEEN HEARD! Thanks again for sharing! Hang in there! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
19:20:56
Comments
For all those out there who want to 'write a book' please DON'T USE THIS SPACE FOR IT! Your manners are terrible. It makes the rest of us who would like to read the guestbook, give up. Don't be so insensitive. We are here TO SUPPORT BILL AND THE LITTLE SHEEP, not to teach doctrine. STOP IT!!

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
19:54:33
Comments
Jesika is right, the post above this one is right, Linda is right. Back to the issues! Use email for the other stuff or visit jWD

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
20:39:33
Comments
This site has been exposed as a JW bashing party.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
20:44:01
Comments
BACK TO THE REASON WHY BILL STARTED THIS!!!!!!!!!! This is a site for abuse,and for the support of those in need or who need it. Don't use it for a heated argument of nothing pertaining to the silentlambs site!!!!!!!!! Love Jesika Thoman Dallas,Tx***************For more of my thoughts look for my post today starting with TO EVERYONE!! Love Jesika Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:19:28
Comments
The Watchtower Society shelters more than one type of abuse. The abuse that this site was designed for and the abuse from the society itself with it's shunning policy. As you can see if you disagree with them, they easy answer is to get rid of the person. This organization will not change as long as people see these spiritual leaders as "Gods representatives on earth". The shunning is secondary to the first (child abuse) coverup in this case. However this is how these leaders conduct business across the board. There blood policy, their new light policy, their child abuse cover up policy, etc. are all symptoms of people being convinced that the holy spirit does not dwell in all Christians(Though the bible teaches that) I feel that you will not change this group as long as they have convinced themselves that they are not acountable to the people who follow their every command. Good luck. Your going to need it.

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:45:38
Comments
For Much Constructive, Helpful Info for Visiting Lambs & Their Families who are seeking info or comfort or assistance (or anyone for that matter), please do check out the HOTLINE button on the HOME PAGE; and also the FAQ section on the HOME PAGE; and also the ASSISTANCE button on the HOME PAGE; and to read the stories of fellow victims, please do read the ABUSED LAMBS and BATTERED LAMBS sections found via the Blue Bars on the HOME PAGE OF THIS WEBSITE. After reading all of that, you could also go back and read prior Guestbook entries beginning from March 2001. And if you want to write the owner of this website, please see the EMAIL bar on the HOME PAGE. Thanks/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:53:49
Comments
HAS EVERYONE VOLUNTEERED FOR THIS? --- ""friends of silentlambs"-We wish to establish a network of safe houses for victims who may be in danger or who may be victimized by misguided Jehovah's Witnesses. We are looking for individuals who could provide sanctuary for up to thirty days for parents and children who may be threatened. We would like to establish safe havens in every state within the United States. We ask you provide information about your ability to be able to assist in this regard. If you would like to become a part of a network known as "friends of silentlambs", to register write to Assistance@SilentLambs.org." --- This info can be found at the "HELP SILENT LAMBS" blue button in the left column of the HOME PAGE. If, like me, you don't live in a place big enough to provide such in-house assistance, how about offering to be a telephone contact person in your area, for phone support to victims, if needed or called upon to do so? FYI/Food for Thought. Thanks/SLC (btw, yes, I already offered my name/# should there be any lambs in my area. So far no calls though).

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:57:46
Comments
BLM-You put it so mildly, and I like it! ;-) "SHAME ON YOU, YOU STUPID STUPID MEN! SHAME SHAME SHAME!!" -- and, btw, thanks for the info about the WT/PR statements for the police! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:59:18
Comments
THIS WAS PRICELESS! Thanks Loris!!! --- "This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * If you can't take it maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room." --- Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
22:59:58
Comments
Hey guys, I want to comment on the last few days of hostile posting. I think it is fair to say that JW doctrine debates will bring out the worst in people. That is why I study the art and science of "propaganda." That type of persuasion is poison to individual thought. I can not stress enough the need for more education in understanding the tactics of a propagandist. That was my intent in allowing the discussion to take place yesterday. It is easy to fall in trap, “name-calling, ridiculing, dismissing whatever is said from a different point of view, and changing the discussion to issues without any substance.” These are but a few tricks that a trained propagandist will use. I said months ago, these are patterns and tactics that anyone who engages destructive cults will have to familiarize yourself with. We must train our children what these people are about. Witnesses teach that they spread the "truth" about---Whatever. But the word has a different meaning to them than it does to the average person. Deception, lies, violence (Rape is violence not just sex), and intimidation have nothing to do with true spirituality. There is no excuse for these actions period. And to defend them is even worse. Outside of SL and the JW I have been accused of trying to “legislate morality" in the big picture of child rape and religion. God willing that will happen. We have as a society failed to hold to moral principles. I belive that is why cult like organizations continue to thrive worldwide. They offer a sense of morality, distorted as it is that is the best thing people in them have known. The WTS is a small group and insignificant in the world of cults but the crater they leave in the lives they destroy gives me reason to not ignore them. I have told hundreds of people about this site. In turn they have told people and so on. I have advertised this site in newspapers and write the media. Montel Williams did a first class show on destructive cults today. I recommend you guys look to get a copy. I taped it. The truth about what is happening is getting out. Be patient. (I once heard that sometimes you can see crab-traps that have the top open; just barely above the water. Every time that a crab tries to clime out of the trap the other crabs pull the escapee back down.) (I hope you can use that analogy someday.)-With love and understanding-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:21:52
Comments
jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net asked: "So if indeed this is the case, what are we to do? Flee, flee to what.... Who else has the teachings of life?" ----- Dear jgibson: This is exactly the point where the WTS has confused all of us to no end. We have been indoctrinated to believe that we can ONLY get to GOD & JESUS THRU the WTS, which is not the case at all. I'm sure you will recall the conversation between Jesus and Peter: "Simon Peter answered him: "Lord, WHOM shall we go away to? YOU have sayings of EVERLASTING LIFE; and we have believed and come to know that YOU are the Holy One of God." (John 6: 68,69) ---- Please note that Peter did not ask Jesus, "WHAT religious ORGANIZATION shall we go away to?" But he asked, "WHOM shall we go away to?" (WHOM as in a PERSON, not a THING). It clearly shows Jesus is the "WHOM" who gives Everlasting Life, not a man-made religious group or Ruling Body of Men. As someone wrote on this site, "Fear Fades When Facts Are Faced." There is nothing to fear because the fact is, we were SUPPOSED TO BE GOING DIRECTLY TO JESUS HIMSELF ALL ALONG, each of us individually. How? "The helper, the holy spirit... THAT ONE WILL TEACH YOU... [how]." (John 14:26). --- This scripture alone, though known for years and read many times, is like Brand New when seen w/o the WT-Blinders On. Think about it. Hope this helps. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:28:13
Comments
SILENT LAMBS MARCH 9-27-02: Within the past day or two someone asked what was the March all about, and where could they get info? --- First, please go to the HOME PAGE of this site

<www.silentlambs.org> You will find these links in BLUE on the Home Page, just scroll down a little if you don't see it right off, but here is what is listed on the home page in this order: ** Watch Panarama (the BBC's documentary on JW sex abuse) ** Panarama Transcript ** Panarama Spanish ** DATELINE PICTURES ** DATELINE TRANSCRIPT ** DATELINE AUDIO ** DATELINE SPANISH ** PRESS RELEASE 5/07/02 ******** SILENTLAMBS MARCH 9-27-02 INFORMATION LATEST INFO ******** There, did you FIND IT? It's the last item in the list on the HOME PAGE. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:36:20
Comments
CC wrote about her kids: "I WILL RAISE THEM TO HAVE AN OPEN MIND AND NOT BE JUDGEMENTAL OF OTHERS. TO GIVE OTHERS ALWAYS THE BENEFIT OF THE DOUBT." ----- Hi CC, thanks for your comments and prayers. I liked what you wrote there. Our "normal" sinful inheritance leads us to judge others, which is bad enough. But when we spend many years in a religion which teaches us to CONTINUE JUDGING rather than teaching us to, as you describe, NOT be judgmental/give people the benefit of the doubt, etc., Well, we have alot of un-learning to do, and it's nice to see you are instilling this into your babes while they are still young. Thanks for the reminder! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:43:32
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:43:56
Comments
DJB wrote the other day: "It is going around the world and exposing this for all to see. This could only be with Jehovah's blessing. ... Luke 12: 1,3 "...WHAT YOU WHISPER IN PRIVATE ROOMS WILL BE PREACHED FROM THE HOUSETOPS." ----- Thanks again, DJB! While sharing your scriptures with another forum, the thought came to me that the antennas on HOUSETOPS allow us to receive TV-shows like Dateline and Panorama, etc., and this could be ONE WAY the SL message is being Preached From The Housetops. ;-) Just a thought... /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:45:28
Comments
TO THOSE WHO DEFEND WTS, by Claudine: Excellent Response, clear, concise, and oh so REASONABLE!!!! Thanks! SLC

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:46:04
Comments
Soapbox! GOOD GOOD GOOD. Excellent Essay. I am so touched by the way you express yourself! Who can refute what you wrote? Thanks again. /SLC (Soapbox began with -- partial quote -- see full entry above -- "Only man can make God's Law inequitable...and Jesus fulfilled the law, did away with it and gave us the command to love one another. Two witnesses is a guideline used by WTS in an inequitable way without love. It is used to hide behind when all else fails to cover their tracks.")

Remote User:

Date:
08 Aug 2002
Time:
23:50:45
Comments
Hi bjc2! I, FOR ONE, THANK YOU for your efforts and for the information about The Report, and the details & addresses for it, and the corrections to the misunderstood parts, etc. I hope the ones who complained about "books" will not upset you. I was glad to have had this Report brought to my attention, since I am open to all possibilities at this point. Thanks again/SLC.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:02:09
Comments
Hi Linda Birt & Family: Thanks for sharing your story and filling us in on the first-hand experience your [elder] husband and yourself had with the way the WTS dealt with abuse in the UK. Glad to hear you have been able to move on from it. I notice you said you have almost finished counselor training and would like to help. I was wondering if you would be interested in or if you noticed the bar on the Home Page of this site, "HELP SILENT LAMBS"? There on that page, Paragraph #6 says, "COUNSELING-If you have credentials for counseling victims of molestation and would like to help direct them on how to get the best assistance, CLICK HERE." When you click there, it opens up your email program in order to email Silent Lambs at this address: write to: Assistance@SilentLambs.org. --- Thanks again! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:11:37
Comments
Did everyone see the email sent around by Silent Lambs re: the Navy's website on JWs? <http://www.chaplaincare.navy.mil/JehovahWitnesses.htm> Two things caught my eye while reading it: (a) "A group of members called STEADFASTERS opposed all support of World War I. Later, THE SOCIETY ADOPTED THE STANCE OF THE STEADFASTERS." --- Hmmmm.... Does anyone think there is hope the WTS will "adopt the stance" of the SILENT LAMB STEADFASTERS??? That would sincerely be great, wouldn't it? (However, taking my own advice above, I will Not be holding my breath). ----- The second thing I noticed (humorously) is that the Navy gives a New Title that could be used in addition to elder/PO/SO/CO/DO... and it is: "J.O." (Navy's quote: "As in all large organizations, official policies must be administered by junior officials.") There you have it, JUNIOR OFFICIALS! :-) Well, I thought it was funny! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:13:56
Comments
THIS IS WHY! THIS IS T-H-E PURPOSE! THIS IS WHAT MAKES IT ALL WORTH WHILE! -- A visitor wrote Date: 08 Aug 2002, Time: 07:39:09: "i never knew you were there! i cried when i saw the site today. After all these years my experiences find a home, a voice, a listener. Thanks." ----- WELCOME WELCOME to "All These Years"! So glad you found Bill Bowen's Silent Lambs site, because w/o him having created this, the entire sex abuse situation in the congs would still be nothing but a "secret" in the "back rooms." Your experiences are VALIDATED! Your tears are RECOGNIZED & UNDERSTOOD! Your pain is SHARED! You are Not Alone! Please come "home" often! Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:20:46
Comments
" ...and stone them with their books from the wt stand." ----- Now now, NY-John, that ISN'T very nice, is it? (but it DID give me a Big Chuckle!) When I read your posts, words like "Fearless" and "Firey Flame" come to mind! ----- I am remembering a TV commercial from several decades ago: "What does the average citizen on the streets of New York think about the WTS? Only your friendly NY Truck Driver KNOWS FOR SURE..." :-) -- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:21:12
Comments
Every time a jw comments it seems like everyone goes for their head. I have observed with some interest what has been going on and quite frankly am shocked and amazed at the lack of respect displayed when one offers an opinion that is different from most here. I thought this site was to help victims. It's amazing I go way back in the posts and the central theme is anti-jw talk. Sincerely, JR

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:27:22
Comments
WHAT COULD I POSSIBLY ADD TO THIS EXCELLENT POST? NOT A SINGLE THING! BECAUSE C.E. HIT THE DEAD-CENTER OF THE BULLS-EYE WITH HER VERY FIRST ARROW OF WELL-POINTED-WORDS (Thanks CE!!!! /SLC) ----- "And like having an unfaithful spouse who doesn't care, they continue to lie or cover-up the problem. And there can be no reconcilation under those circumstances. This is grievious. ... the so called bashing is a reaction to the very things we all once where seduced by to our own detriment and blindness. A Trust was betrayed - this is a very serious offense against the human spirit. Jehovah hates a liar. ... Any person who comes here who has been harmed is warmly comforted. This is all that we can do here. It is so little. Someone has to be here when they come - so we wait. ... We are appalled at what we ourselves have done in the past with the Truth - lording over the worldly people, judging them, pat answers for complexity, having no interest in others except as a potential sheep is appalling. ... The bitterness, the sadness, the anger expressed here is an appropriate safe place to do this. People who have been oppressed have to find expression. ... I had found the truth and then found out that the deliver of the truth is a liar and a cheat - well it is heartbreaking, spiritually devastating and cynical. ... Jusified anger isn't ungodly. ...The WTS has the biggest responsibility to do this and they did not and will not. If they had - we all wouldn't be here*******************glady. C.E."

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:39:47
Comments
To Loris who wrote: "SLC *** YOU GO GIRL!!!!!" ----- (Replying in my best Elvis voice): Thaaaank Ya Thaaank Ya Thaaaank Ya (kindly!) :-) I feel DITTO re: YOUR so-much-more eloquent posts! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:43:27
Comments
Anonymous wrote: "Bill isn't trying to start a doctrinal fight here as far as ... whether to wear pantyhose to the meeting or not." ----- LOL! That one made me laugh! NOTICE: New Website & Reform Movement Being Established for All JW Sisters: "The Silent Suffering of Pantyhose Wearers." Join Now at <www.PantyhoseNoMore.org> ----- (Hey, it's a JOKE! However, I'd rather die than have to wear pantyhose again. I should have taken out stock in "L'Eggs" in my younger working & JW years... /SLC)

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:47:53
Comments
A Visitor wrote: "Incest is a taboo, and should not be allowed to continue, I feel very stong about this, and thank you for letting me share my thoughts." ----- No, WE THANK YOU for commenting. When I saw your post, in the middle of all of the JW-Defender posts yesterday, I thought to myself, "Praise Jah some SANE people are posting today!" --- Well said Visitor! /SLC

Remote User:
Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:57:41
Comments
Anonymouse asked: "Request to Jehovah's Witness people: Help me to find (in the bible) the Great Crowd's plan of salvation. The annointed Christians plan is covered quite well. I do not see anything about a plan of salvation for a Great Crowd." ----- So sorry Bible questioner. 7 or 8 people today advised we not answer bible questions/doctrine not relating to sex abuse specifically. ----- Seriously, I'd look something up for you if I wasn't already pooped. I'm surprised JW-Defender didn't take the opportunity to reply to your post. Suggestion: You can submit a question at any of these sites: Just JWs at msn (go to msn groups, and search for Just JWs), or post your Q at (<http://www.channelc.org/cgi-bin/eboard30/index.cgi> Questions for the forum, email to: cc-questions@channelc.org) -- OR -- you could post your question as a New Topic at <www.Jehovahs-Witness.com>. You will get all the answers you need at these places. Another idea, of course, is to ask your neighborhood JW when they call at your home, or call their KHall and ask someone. I suggest this since no one has answered you yet and you could get a faster response at the above forums. Hope this helps. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
00:58:29
Comments
That was a typo above - AnonymousE. I meant, of course, Anonymous. .SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:24:10
Comments
JR wrote: " Every time a jw comments it seems like everyone goes for their head." ----- Reply: The tendency to "go for their head" only surfaces when they exhibit such a Self-Righteous Attitude that is hard to stomach for those who have either been there themselves and/or can SEE RIGHT THRU the fasehood of their "truth."----- JR continued: "I have observed with some interest what has been going on and quite frankly am shocked and amazed at the lack of respect displayed when one offers an opinion that is different from most here." ----- Reply: You must not be a JW. Otherwise, you would realize that the "opinions offered which are different from the ones here," are nothing but WTS propaganda which has been drilled into the heads of these ones who are expressing so-called OPINIONS. (See SEQUOIA's Post above). Also, what real knowledge and/or insight do you have into the spirit of an abused one? If you had some, I think you would understand a little more clearly. ----- JR continued: "I thought this site was to help victims." ----- We must be reading different websites! I see numerous posts from people who express THANKS and COMFORT from this website. ----- JR's finaly thought was: "It's amazing I go way back in the posts and the central theme is anti-jw talk." ----- To that I reply: DUH! WONDER WHY???? WHO IS IT That ABUSED the Lambs and Their Supporters? More correctly that should read: ANTI-WTS TALK. JW members as a whole are still in the blinded-grasp of their propagandist/cultish LEADERS, and therefore, are not totally responsible. (On second thought, after reading some of Truck-Driver-John's posts, I might have to change my opinion on that). - Anyway, JR, I'm sorry you are not seeing the MEANING of the dynamics here. It seems you are only noticing the SURFACE of things. I guess it's truer than true when they say, "You would have had to have BEEN THERE" [to appreciate/understand it]. But, that's okay, and don't worry, We Won't Shoot JR! ;-) /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:38:09
Comments
THIS BEARS REPEATING & Thanks to PMD in Scotland for posting it: "The society cannot now judge other religions until it itself cleans its act up." -- So True, PMD. Otherwise, they will continue to look like fools. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:47:47
Comments
TO "Good Luck, You're Going To Need It" who wrote: "This organization will not change as long as people see these spiritual leaders as "Gods representatives on earth." --- Reply: Good point, poster. When I read things like this, I remember how I felt as a JW, and you are so correct - I would never have fathomed that the leaders could be in the wrong, and would have closed my mind and ears and shuddered at any talk against them. ----- You also wrote: "I feel that you will not change this [WTS/JW] group..." -- Reply: Maybe not. But what has and/or WILL CHANGE is WE, OURSELVES. We are no longer in darkness! We are no longer alone and suppressed! And THAT is the BEST Change of All even if the WTS stays the same (more like, "Keeps Regressing.") Thanks for your best wishes! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
01:57:49
Comments
Hi SEQ! Thanks for your reminder of your knowledge about propaganda and cult activity. Wish I'd known about Montel today, I would have watched it for sure. And thanks for your efforts which you described (getting the word out, etc.) The great news is that once we "get the sense of it," we come to realize, sometimes in a flash, that we are FREE TO go STRAIGHT to Jesus and Jehovah without the middle-men, and I mean LITERALLY WITHOUT the Middle-Men! This opens up a whole new area of exciting discovery, that with the help of The Helper (the holy spirit) an entirely NEW, BETTER & MORE IINTIMATE relationship with Our Father and His Son is waiting in the wings (of the mother hen who is longing to gather we "chicks" to herself). Thanks again, and Good Night All. I think I'm all caught up for awhile.. .Love/SLC -- AND BEST WISHES TO BILL ON SUNDAY!!!!! Anybody know if he got enough letters???? I sure HOPE SO!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
02:07:54
Comments
I looked up this website after seeing the 'Dateline NBC' segment profiling cover-ups of child abusers/molesters within the JW church. I was simply APPALLED by what I found here. The sickening acts of JW church members, and just as bad, the cover-ups by church elders and ostracism/isolation of abuse victims was absolutely disgusting. That being said, I absolutely believe the stories on this site. This site is, I think, essential for those who have been isolated - sometimes by family members - for daring to expose the vile acts committed by JW members. For the record - I am not a JW, although my grandmother was.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
02:15:27
Comments
OK. I debated whether to post this, but since I am signing off, I will post it anyway since I feel (imho of course) some of my feelings are valid: Here goes: I think you guys (mostly ANONYMOUS ones who don't give a name/handle) who are griping about the recent WTS discussions are putting Way Too Much Emphasis on it. (Just in this August 2002 Part 2 of the Guestbook, I see about 7 or 8 such complaints.) Because, as Loris and Claudine CORRECTLY EXPLAINED, EVERYTHING ABOUT the WTS affects the lambs -- the two are DEEPLY intertwined. They cannot be separated. So BIG DEAL if some doctrinal stuff is discussed? It's just a phase. (Compare it with 18 entire months of posts!) It does NO HARM TO "NEW" LAMBS WHO VISIT HERE, imo, to see a little WTS "doctrine exposure." BESIDES, it is NOT ONLY VICTIMS who visit here, but no doubt MANY worldly people (see SEQ's recent post as an example) and maybe even some JWs who silently read but do not reply. If they learn ONE NEW THOUGHT from these types of posts (WT doctrine espose'), ALL THE BETTER for the worldly visitors AND/or the JWs. --- And let's say I was a worldly person reading JW Defender's posts yesterday and then saw that NO ONE EVEN PUT FORTH ANY EFFORT TO REFUTE all the baloney he was saying. What would I think as an unknowing worldly person? I would think he was CORRECT, that's what I would have thought! So RESPONSES from the regulars here WAS APPROPRIATE, imo. --- Also, if some current JW (defenders or whomever) DIRECTLY ASKS ME SOMETHING, please be advised I WILL REPLY, and if it is "book size" in nature, who are you to complain? Are you the owner of the site? Just don't read the posts! Doesn't everyone know how to use their SCROLL ARROW or Mouse? Scroll OVER the posts if you don't feel like reading them. (How hard is that to do?) --- Frankly, I'm getting a little tired of the complainers complaining. I would never DISCOURAGE ANYONE (of the "Good Guys") from posting - that would NOT be nice MANNERS - as a matter of fact, THAT would be INSENSITIVE. --- And if you are going to "GIVE UP" that easily, then Hmmm.... what does that say for Tenacity? --- No, I am NOT suggesting the purpose of this site be changed for all eternity, but I think it's NOT THAT BIG OF A DEAL that some WT-doctrine-discussion/exposure has occurred. Knowledge is Power, remember? The NEW VISITORS are posting many THANKFUL POSTS. I think it is some of the "anonymous regulars and/or lurkers" who are complaining. And I hardly think any Wounded Lamb is going to run away from the site permanently due to some WT doctrine discussion. (Even if they do leave for awhile, they will not forget what they read and it will sink in. That's how it has happened with me... slowly sinks in, even if the "first swallow" was hard to get down.) --- Lastly, if there IS UPDATED SL activity going on to be shared, by all means SHARE IT and fill us in! The only updates I see are the emails sent out by B.Bowen and/or from the Guestbook and/or Home Page listings. --- Maybe WT doctrine-discussion has occurred because the "complainers" are NOT posting anything themselves! --- I'll borrow SoapBox' moniker for this one. Agape/SLC ----- PS: In defense of John/NY, sure his posts may be a little harsh in delivery, but does he not also have a right to be incensed about the abused JWs? C'mon, people, remember Jesus' words: "FOR HE THAT IS NOT AGAINST US IS FOR US." (Mark 9:40) -- and the verse right above that one says, "DO NOT TRY TO PREVENT HIM, for there is no one that will do a powerful work on the basis of [Jesus'] name that will quickly be able to revile [Jesus]..." (Mark 9:39)

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:19:46
Comments
" There is no baby in the bathwater - throw it out!"....Too cute. Thanks.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:22:09
Comments
Seems the Newspaper articles are becoming scarce, I wonder if the fickle media cares about the smear campaign you have going on now? I guess the new is wearing off the story. Maybe Bill should dress up in a clown costume, or maybe go on a hunger strike to get this thing rolling again.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:36:08
Comments
This just in: I heard the number signed up for Bills march on New York is now up to 10 people! They may have to call in the Police for crowd control!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
08:43:39
Comments
Breaking News: The Benton Kentucky times has promised a special issue with full front page coverage of Bills march on New York. With a circulation of 32 this will surely raise the ire and shock of the American public to levels not seen since Dateline (most of which was pre-empted by playoff games across the USA) The public will see what wicked people JW's truly are!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:31:03
Comments
Silentlambs March September 27 . . . . . . . There is a book publishing company in Brooklyn that we are going to picket. The company has a strict dress code (like the old EDS or IBMs) The company is telling all current and prospective employees (and anyone else who will listen) that the picketers are just DISGRUNTLED ex employees. They say the ex employees havent worked for the company in years maybe decades and are just a bunch of losers who cant find other jobs. But what if the picketers look like they still work for the company or that they just quit last week? It will be harder for the publishing company to smear the picketers and the picketers get the best PR. . . . . WHEN WE MARCH FOR SILENTLAMBS WE DON'T LOOK LIKE APOSTATES!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:31:52
Comments
***Jay Walter's story can be found here----

>*** http://www.exjws.net/pioneers/partintro.htm

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
09:40:20
Comments
Hi. I was raised JW. While I agree with JW's view on paradise earth and a non-trinity God...and while I am glad that this site does address sexual abuse issues..what about the OTHER forms abuse withIN the JW org? Such a emotional and religous abuse? What about ruling people's personal lives? Espeicalli on NON_bibical issues such as : telling grown adults OVER 21 who they can date or not? Telling men that they can not wear bears? Rigif formal Mormon-like dress codes from the 1950's? Telling people that it is "Their choice" to celebrate birthdays or not"..but then when individuals DO 'choose' to celebrate birthdays..then they are tagged as "spiritually weak"? What about those HORRID "Kingdom Mealodies" from HELL? And the refusel to allow contemporary music in worship instead of Bach? Lastly, what about the simple fact that "The Governing Body"/"The Society"/"The Organization"...is viewed as "The Channel to Jehovah"? Is that not supose to Jesus' postion ONLY? RenewedEarthPress@hotmail.com Renewed Earth Press P.O. Box 142 Ojai,CA 93024

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:11:56
Comments
hi all its john i,ve been reading this site for a year gaining kmowledge and all here are in my prays. i take what i learn and use it in the field with the power of the holy sprit i hope to help others as well as myself. in the last year i had to tell hundreds and hundreds of wt members i,m going to make a prophecy watch out for dateline child molestation in the wt is going to come to a head. they all laughed at me .i know some watched it in the last momth or so i can see the confusion in some of thier faces i think all this talk from the kh to the door steps about molestation is ringing a sour note in some of thier hearts. i keep in my truck printouts of all kinds dirt on the wt i try to be ready for all incounters.try to keep in mind i try to witnesses in christian love. it,s mostly wt members who fruitlessly try to attack me for exposing the wt. thats what pisses me off when some one has no sense of reason. let the pharisees of the wt be thrown in the pit by ceasar after all that has been hidden is exposed to the light let all who refuse reproof also led into the pit. you gotta love proverbs.p.s. the light machine is sitting idle i,m home sick. but that ok i finally got to talk here with some beautiful people . look for me at the march .freedom in christ to all john

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:23:42
Comments
to 9:40:20 I think the advice not to wear "bears" is a good one Just think how painful and potentially fatal that could be! One could suffocate and maybe even die! Or think about the possibilities of being scratched by those tremendous claws. Infection could set up and possibly kill you!......Whine, cry, snibble, sniff! It sounds like you and most other people just don't like to live by any rules, who are they to tell me I can't do something? Sounds a little familiar "Satan...Who is Jehovah to tell me what to do? It all amounts to the fact that you don't like to be told what to do so you harp on things like wearing a "bear". By the way there are two brothers in good standing in my congregation that wear "bears"

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:29
Comments
John, sorry to hear your sick today. I looked for a email addy from your earlier posts but couldn't find one, was gonna ask you a personal question. bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:44:55
Comments
More news from the AP: Silent Lambs Movement strapped for cash? To raise cash for the Silent Lambs Movement organizers are hosting a Masquerade party. The theme will be Bible characters. Come as your favorite fictional Bible character. The best dressed winner will receive a grab bag full of JW puns, jokes and other Misc. JW bashing tools. It promises to be alot of fun and the entry fee is only 13 cents. Organizers hope to attract at least 8-10 people and put a possible .80 - 1.30 in the SL kitty for future marches to expose what evil people the JW's are.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:46:57
Comments
to all thoses complaining about jw bashing come to the bronx i,ll set you up with a private study with brother carl grolsh in co-op city after he gropes you and asks you all kinds of sex positions that turn you on . etc etc. that,s what some of my family members and i have seen in the last 30 yrs. one can only imagine the love he,s going to show when no one is around .after a few studys with brother grolsh . you,ll be singing a different tune maybe soprano. you better hope jesus shows up when you tell the elders . oh! i forgot he,s only one witnesses! this brother will never admit to anything ,but he puts in alot of time. let me know when you want this study.don,t to forget to wear your ARMOR!!!!! waiting in the bx john

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
10:53:57
Comments
To the one/or ones who are enjoying them selves by making these snide comments - Are you a believer in the heavenly FATHER? If yes, then do you truly in your heart feel the HE approves of you poking fun at this site? At abuse suvivor's? Can you not see, with your spirit that you are only causing HIM to take a closer look at YOU, we may not know who you are and why your doing this but HE does! I bet you'de even feed a baby pigglet a chop too!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:02:33
Comments
" I'd bet you'd even feed a baby piglet a chop too" ?????????

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:11:10
Comments
No one is poking fun at the abused. The puns simply show the extent that this site has degenerated and gotten away from its purpose. Why can you guys take stabs at JW's by insinuating what evil people we are because of a few bad ones by bringing up old history and other completely unrelated rhetoric but we can't comment or poke fun at completely unrelated issues as well? Is this your party only and you can cry if you want to? Get back to the topic and maybe the posts from these others you are whining about will stop!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:36:14
Comments
Regarding the comment - Why can you guys take stabs at JW's by insinuating what evil people we are because of a few bad ones by bringing up old history and other completely unrelated rhetoric but we can't comment or poke fun at completely unrelated issues as well? Is this your party only and you can cry if you want to? Get back to the topic and maybe the posts from these others you are whining about will stop! YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW ME, YOU DO NOT EVEN KNOW WHAT I HAVE POSTED HERE, This is me, bonnielyn, me who made the earlier comment about the piglet and the chop! YOU look at any of my posts IF YOU DARE!, and then label ME as one of the 'YOU PEOPLE!' IF you find one comment that I made that is considered wrong in your heart then you bring it to my attention and I will ask you to forgive me for hurting you by my remarks! I do not go around hurting ANYONE on purpose and if I have then I am sorry! Sincerely sorry for that!! And if you wouldn't feed a piglet a chop, glad to hear it! And I ask that you forgive me for saying I bet you would! I was not poking fun at JW's with that comment, after all, I didn't even know you were a JW until AFTER I SAID IT! So how could I have been bashing a JW with that comment? again, respectfully, and with love of all my neighbors, bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
11:54:08
Comments
And your comment or who ever it was comment about the .13 cent admission to a party to assist in the silentlamb march WAS NOT UNRELATED TO THE ISSUE It was a direct HIT, to the ISSUE, don't insult your own intelligence thinking that it wasn't! Do you hold your innocent childs little hand with the same hand that you use to type things in here to make light of the issue of abusing children??? Do you tuck them in at night and are thankful that no one has touched them in ways to break their spirit's and body's with those same two hands???? Do you not even realize that somewhere right now there are children, mothers, fathers, grandmothers, grandfathers, that are being abused! Not only by non-believers either! Not only by believers either! Search your spirit before answering please, truly search it, feel the pain of all of these in man kind that suffer at the hands of another, that silently and not so silently beg for help! That are molested, beaten and mudered by someone put here to protect them!! Search your heart for the love of others!! IT's in there!!! the wt has written about it enough that it should be inside you somewhere! FIND IT! Then you will see for yourself, making light of the issue of this site and those who care about the children is not a very nice thing to do! It's not loving! and if your excuse is that others are doing it to you so you have the right to do it to others...... is that what the witnesses teach??? I missed that one in my studys, thought they taught to 'do onto others as you would do onto yourself'! Has this 'teaching' changed then! It has been awhile since I was in study so maybe there is 'new light' about how to treat others that I am not aware of, is there? if so, then I guess your poking fun and making light of this issue is what your supposed to do and told to do by the JW's! I am not bashing, poking fun at or judging with these questions, I am truly ASKING you! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:17:56
Comments
" Rather than focusing on things and time, focus on preserving and enhancing relationships and accomplishing results." -- Stephen Covey And this I pray: that your love may abound yet more and more and extend to its fullest development in knowledge and all keen insight [that your love may display itself in greater depth of acquaintance and more comprehensive discernment], so that you may surely learn to sense what is vital, and approve and prize what is excellent and of real value... -- Philippians 1:9, 10 (Amplified Bible) © Copyright 1954, 1958, 1962, 1964, 1965, 1987 by the Lockman Foundation Monday Boosters are brief, to the point and when you need them the most...every Monday morning! Pass them on to your friends and family who can use a weekly boostershot. To subscribe or unsubscribe go http://www.boosterguy.com/subscribe-biblebooster.html

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:19:30
Comments
A point or two about being 'on the topic': Discussions about the structure of the organization, discussions about how elders are taught to deal with complex behind-the-scenes social issues, discussions of historical events and teachings that lead up to the current set of beliefs and procedures, are all part of the topic. A sense of fairness impels us to try to deal with dissenting opinions - like Defender. In my opinion, the one thing that most separates this forum from any others is that it is set up Bill Bowen to change the organization. I was amazed when I first realized that this site was run by an active JW. But I also find it interesting when I see a post from a Defender that it is in the form of thought that has been ingrained by way too many meetings and repetition. An active JW will typically start firing off scripture snippets and asking what is the greater fulfillment?, or 'where will you go?' They firmly believe that they are at the heart of the discussion. The JW thinks that the discussion needs to be around how Ezekial chapter this is in harmony with Matthew verse that. But to realign their thinking will require that they first start seeing the bible as more straightforward instruction for each of us - not as a jigsaw puzzle designed for the few appointed with the insight of Holy Spirit. That we all have an obligation to build our own understanding and not rely on an organization to make these decisions for us. Pipe dream huh? Yup. Worth trying? I think so. On topic? Definitely. - Buster (Besides, they can be kind of fun at times.)

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:32:17
Comments
bonnielyn, I am going to address myself as CJ from now on. I did not write the comment about the silent lamb party, I was the one who wrote that it is simply a response to show how far this site has degenerated. I truly beleive this. Look at the post...can you say that most of the posts lately are related to abuse victims? Maybe yours are but the majority aren't. I am a JW and I am proud of that. I feel that as a whole JW's represent Jehovahs' name very well. Yes there are a few bad apples. I think dredging up 1800's history on JW's does no good. Yes JW's had some misconstrued views throughout the ages, but so what! This to me shows progress in a good way by getting further and further away from wrong views doctrinal or nondoctrinal. I cannot think of a single religion today that isn't actually going the opposite direction by becoming more and more liberal simply because thats what the people want to hear.I am sickened by anyone who abuses a child, but recent posts make it seem like all JW's are pedophiles, or that we have more pedophiles than anyother religion. In the beginning this site was setup supposedly to help victims, but whether you accept it or not it has become a JW bash party. I know that you personally may not be doing it but as it has been pointed out by many on this site, its those others that make the whole site look bad, just as afew bad ones in the JW organization make the whole look bad to you. Personally I am offended at the insinuations that JW's are evil, just as you would be offended at anyone making an accusation against you even though as you said in your post "they don't know you" Whether or not you or anyone else would like to admit it most people even the non jw's just plain old regular people have nothing against us. I have spoken to many in the field ministry here in Kentucky and to the very few that have even said anything about this ordeal they still say well It happens in all religions. Thats the simple truth. Yes many cases were handled wrong but the governing body and JW's as a whole cannot be classified or branded as an overall bad people based on 1800s history as many here would like to make people believe. So bonnielyn I hope this has cleared up things between us and I hope that you can help others in here to be able to let out their anger and frustrations in a more constructive way. CJ

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
12:40:30
Comments
Back to the topic... everyone please go to the UN site, look up, and read the Declaration of the RIGHTS OF CHILDREN, and bye the way, thanks to the official WT site for putting some of it in one of their mags so I could be directed to it!!! ty ty ty! :-) Since it was in the mag of the witnesses then even witnesses can go and take a look-see, for educational purposes, since it was in a JW mag! Right? Anyway, take a look; it is calling for EVERYONE to protect the children from (just to name two) moral and spiritual harm! I know that the word of the FATHER said as much, so very long ago, HE made the call for all to protect our children! Keep them safe! And to NOT TOLERATE anyone who does them harm! So let us all strive to do this! This site is here to assist the abused and battered, surviving lambs, to try and change the hearts and sight of those who cannot see that protecting the children is the most important thing! Isn't it? So any more comments made not reflecting this should not be replied to, it only adds fuel to the fire! I have no right to tell anyone what to do, I can only ask, please click on your 'ignore' when anyone posts comments that do not consider the protection of children! Thanks to all who do this, and to those who don't, that's your right, freedom of speech is your right. Man gave you that! So, I will strive myself to not 'get sucked in' by the snide remarks. I will try to just, consider the source and discern the spirit of the ones making them! With love, from the spirit of love, bonnielynn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:24:30
Comments
CJ - your comment - I am sickened by anyone who abuses a child, - a blessing to hear!!! So now that we both are sickened by this, what can we do? I know that the majority of Witnesses are good, decent people, people who honestly feel that they are saving the worldly ones everlasting life. I'm concerned with the ones who aren't, even if it was just one, and that one was allowed to continue to abuse just one child, it's still wrong. If you found my story and read it you then know that I was raised to believe the doctrine of the JW's, I still do believe their basic doctrines, love one another, walk in the footsteps of Jesus, and many more, but the subject here is the lambs, and I honestly feel that not only speaking out for the present lambs and past lambs in love and understanding is important, also, making sure that the future lambs, the non-believers coming into the 'truth' are protected now! Do you feel comfortable with the thought of ANYONE allowing a 'known' pedophile to come to your home? If it was a regular company lets say, and they stated in the media that they 'do not let a known pedophile to hold a responsible position with-in their company, and that they do allow the 'known pedophile' to go to the homes of children to teach, sell, or anything' would that not make you hesitate wanting that company to send ANYONE from their company to your home, or the homes of your loved ones, or even ANYONE'S HOMES? Would it really matter to you if that 'known' pedophile were with another person? Would you still want that 'known pedophile' near your children? Even with someone else they are still able to look at your children, you are still putting your child in the sight of a 'known' pedophile, and the sad thing is, you wouldn't even know it! Oh, yes and the company also stated publicly that 'they may not send the 'known' pedophile to a neighborhood that knows of them! That might be your neighborhood! Can you see where I am coming from? I am a survivor of abuse, sexual, mental, spiritual, verbal, you name it, and I survived it! I am still surviving it. I am almost 39 years old and cannot even begin to heal when these abuses continue. I think of a child out there, anyone's child being abused and I suffer, my spirit cries out (not to mention my eye's geeze, one would think I would be dried up by now!) I hear of a child's life taken by their own parent and I have to find a blessing in it, I feel, truly feel that at least in death they are free of the abuses suffered alive, and the FATHER will remember them, and bring them back, the little baby's that never harmed a soul, the innocent little lives, that HE will bring them back and heal them!!! But until then at least the one's lost to earthly life are safely sleeping until that day comes! That's the only way that I can even continue on.. How HE has given me the courage to bare all of this! What can we, you and I do, to walk in the word, and help at least one of these little children that are still here, gave to us to protect???? Any suggestions from you or anyone reading this is welcome!!!! In your opinion, allowing a 'known' pedophile, most of whom have not taken the suggestion of the company to 'do the right thing' and turn yourselves in to pay the penalty of mans law, do you think allowing those who have not truly repented, gave lip service to remain in the company, to continue the non-responsible position of going to a child's door, to teach, to sell, to whatever, do you think that this is against the will of the FATHER? Do you, in your opinion, feel that these 'known' pedophiles have the blessing to do this from HIM? Since you are a Witness, I would highly appreciate your insight!! And especially any suggestions on how we, you and I, and all of us that truly find this sickening can walk in the word and do something! We are the earthly instruments of the FATHER right? I know that since I am not a witness as far as you are concerned or the org is concerned so I understand that you may not consider me a spiritual, loving, person because of it. But I am! I am truly afraid that if we all don't see that HE is calling all of us to do HIS will regarding protecting the children, then ... we just have to see that HE is using us now to do something about this, as HE used Jesus to show us the way, as HE used Jesus to know that HE is LOVE. HIS spirit is calling us to do something!!! Right?? Something more than just talking about it, and saying how it is bad. It's also bad to sit on the fence post and do nothing. Right???? I just do not know what more I can do. bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:47:33
Comments
SLC- I agree with you that it may be are sometimes necessary to comment on JW values and beliefs. The current policy on protecting the anonymity of pedophiles and the refusal if at all possible of victims seeking justice is the heart of the issue. Bastardizing the scriptures is how that policy was formed. It is beyond me why the JW society finds it so hard to accept that these archaic views are not compatible with any other societal views. That includes their own. The statement by JR Brown is that child abuse is abhorred. However he fails to see how the current beliefs protect the guilty and punishes the victim of the crime. That in itself is abuse. It is the misuse of scripture that is the stance of the WTS. The type of propaganda currently being broadcast by the pro-JW policy stance on protecting pedophiles is but yet another example of the tactics that propagandists use. Just say that this site is anti-JW enough times and a JW or a JW sympathetic person will say AHA! I new it; Case closed. The propagandist does not want someone like me (an outsider) reminding people what I and others like me here are is “anti-pedophile” and, more to the point against any type of “pedophile protection programs.” It is that simple. It is senseless that anyone would disagree with me. But the pro-JW policy side does. They are wrong. Every time they post they explain my point. We all, JW and not should be coming together here not tearing at each other. I however will not budge. I will not give in, and I will not go quietly. It may be that the pro-JW policy group may stay on their side as well. Then we will fight. But my shadow will be with the children and people who otherwise have no voice.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
13:54:39
Comments
Hello. I guess I'll call myself JWD (JW Defender), although I've been called many things from tasty toe, moron, snot-nose, etc. Looking back at some of my posts, I regret saying some of the things I said. I'm not retracting what I said, just excusing myself. I tried to just look without posting but that turned out to be an impossible task. The natural tendency is to defend your beliefs. Anyway, as CJ said, the facts speak for themselves. This site has degenerated into a bash-for-all. The facts speak for themselves. So, for posterity, I'll conclude with a recommendation for JW's at this site: If you see a truck coming towards you, LOOK OUT!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
14:51:13
Comments
Regarding - Hello. I guess I'll call myself JWD (JW Defender), Hi Defender! I would also ask you, in the spirit of getting back to the basic's of the issues here, any suggestions from you on how we all can do our part in protecting innocent lives, bodies, and spirits? Of course we all know that prayer is the very first thing we need to do, and I'm sure most of us here have. Most of us here have also came to the conclusion that our prayers have been answered in the way that we now have the spirit of love to do our parts in assisting the abused. Any suggestions from you, any idea's to how you, I, CJ, all of us, with the word behind us, can do our parts!!! :-) Nice to meet you by the way! I am so glad that you chose the name you have (out of all the others to choose from!, couldn't see anyone calling them self, tasty toes! :-P Since you've chosen the name JW DEFENDER, you are now a DEFENDER of the JW children too! Right?! Makes me want to smile! You have made my day with your last post! ty ty, now we can work together, in spite of our differences and concentrate on protecting the children!!!! bonnielyn!!! It truly is amazing where you find blessings, if you look hard enough; they are just a post away!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:11:16
Comments
To whom it may concern: I am writing to explain myself and my husbands stance in regard to the "Divisions" being caused in the Organization. The only "Divisions" that we know of are those caused by the Governing Body. They have blatantly disregarded their sheep on far to many occasions for us to ever be comfortable worshipping among them again. I could site many instances where they preferred "keeping peace" instead of protection the innocent ones in the congregation. My husband was raised by two abusive people and the elders looked the other way. That is what causes divisions, to know you've been abuses mentally and physically, but to grow up and find that it's not isolated that they KNEW and chose to do nothing. THAT IS WHAT CAUSES DIVISIONS blatant disregard, having no love amongst yourselves because to have love you would do something, anything to spare and innocent. When a loved one comes to you crying telling you about bruises and the pain, to blame them and to ignore their pain is the dividing force. We understand to look at oneself in the mirror and find that you are the reason must be hard, but to blame someone and to go to the extent of disfellowshipping, reeks so much of the world. Smoke and mirrors, look at the right hand so we can't see the leavening in the left preparing to ferment the whole. The Governing Body and those weak spineless Elders that choose to do nothing is what has cause the Division amongst this family. Choosing to blame Bill Bowen while disregarding the real reason, is only going to cause the Society more pain and embarrassment. Bill still chooses to worship, let him examine yourselves as you would the scriptures. That is where you'll find what is lacking in your heart of hearts. Sheila and Christopher Madonia 807 NE 67th Place Gladstone, MO 64118 This is my letter I sent to Bill to present in his defense

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:11:51
Comments
okwho,s the wt ZOMBIE who,s said the silent lambs are running a smear campaign amd loves the truth i mean the watchtower so much he .saying b bowen should put on a clown suit . see you got it backwards yout the one in the clown suit since it seems you have been exposed to the wt lies. now on judgement day ya,ll have no excuse .for being blind .so put on the orange wig,pokadot overalls,and ronald mcdonald shoes,go in the field and bare false witnesses in the name of god. even though you think people are laughing at you with that watchtower in your hand saying read this it,s the truth. in fact real christians feel sorry for you and when they try to show you the facts of the wt. and the real jesus. you just stand there and say look at me the wt dressed me up and made me somebody the cong. respects why just look i,m a wt clone I,M ZOMBIE THE CLOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!john

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
15:40:04
Comments
Bonnielyn, I am now going to make a confession to you. I am currently serving as an elder here in a Kentucky congregation. I am relatively young in years (35 to be axact) and have served in 5 congregations already. A couple in Spanish in Tennessee and 3 English here in Kentucky. As you know I have access to all past files on disfellowshipping, disassciations, etc. This would include any knowledge or revelations of Pedophiles. I am telling you honestly when I say that in all the congregations I have served I have never seeen or dealt with a single case. I am in know way saying that there hasn't been in other congregations, but what I am saying is that from the information I have gathered from posts in this room and from Bill Bowens own comments it make it seem like their is 2 pedophiles in every congregation. I think that this is an unfair distorting of the facts. Oh yes the facts are that there are pedophiles, but not to the extent and broad based implications of the evilness of JW's as a whole. My experience in the congregations that I have served in has been enjoyable especially at seeing how the friends are just trying to lead good lives and cope with this system of things. Issues have been brought to light that will influence me if I ever have to deal with an abuse victim. Our elder body has discussed this and we all have the same feelings on the matter, primary concern will be given to help the abused. It is also their right to take the matter to police we would not discourage that. However if the accused does not admit guilt we can do nothing in a judicial way, though this would give serious rise to any kind of resposibility and would mandate being watched with a little more scrutiny. I do not know if this is fair to the accused if no witnesses can be provided to validate the claim. Thats all we can do our hands would be tied, tied the same way they would be tied in a court of law if the accuser expected to win a case when it is one word pitted against the other with no callaborating evidence or witnesses. No judge would rule favorably for the accuser in this case. You would appreciate this being applied to you if you were the accused. Regardless, if there is no evidence to convict anyone or not counseling for the abused and emotional support would be most appropriate. I sincerely feel this and would let this guide me if I have have to deal with a serious matter like this. Basically what I am trying to tell you that there are alot of good people in the organization, we offer alot of support for each other, but we also step on each others toes, you had a bad experience, you felt it wasn't handled properly and you left. You left scoured with a view that the whole organization is corrupt and I sincerely in my own free mind feel that this is not true. Especially having served in so many congregations. There is alot of good out there. I just wish you were her in our congregation so you can see how we although imperfect, handle things as an elder body. I can't help but think that if your situation was dealt with differently maybe although hurt you would still be with us. I am confident in Jehovah that he will take care of things and that maybe this process is a way of removing some of the impurities. But for me to leave what I know is the truth especially in comparing other religions (which I have done quite extensively before I became a witness) does not solve anything. My hope is in Jehovah and please understand my views as I am sensitive to yours.CJ

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:47:58
Comments
bonnie lyn it,s J_CHITO@msn.com to that jw your living the masquerade as for the .10cents donations that what i give zombies like you for 2 wt mags then i ask for change just to make the point it only costs the wt 3.4cents and issue to print paper ink electric,SLAVE LOBOR AN ALL!!!!your right wt members arn,t bad people till you expose thier idle and god the WATCHTOWER! jw your doing a great job telling all here what you are . a fool read jn7:18 then then tell me what the wt is . take off the rose colored glasses and high heel shoes you can wear a lamp shade on your heAd and molest haLF THE KIDS IN YOUR CIRCUIT FOR 20 YRS. AS LONG AS YOU SAY I BELIEVE EVERYTHING THE WT SAYS AND THE KIDS DON,T HAVE 2 WITNESSES IE MR. MOLEST-A-LOT PANDELO IN N.J.YOU WANT MORE. WHEN THE WT TODAY CALLS OLD FALSE PROPHECY BIBLE TRUTH . THE WORD OF JEHOVAH RIGHT THERE YOU SEE THE WT WILL TELL ANY LIE TO PROTECT 600% PROFIT ON EACH OF THE 24 MILLION MAGS SLAVE LAbor prints each week heard of human rights the slaves at bethel have none ps. bend over i know a brother who has a bone for you !!!no witnesses mind you have fun .john

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:49:34
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:54:47
Comments
CJ- That was very eloquently written. I know you mean every word that you wrote but I would warn people of what you are really saying. I think that this 100 year old poem says alot. The Spider and the Fly (A Fable) By Mary Howitt (1799-1888) "Will you walk into my parlor?" said the spider to the fly; "'Tis the prettiest little parlor that ever you did spy. The way into my parlor is up a winding stair, And I have many pretty things to show when you are there." "O no, no," said the little fly, "to ask me is in vain, For who goes up your winding stair can ne'er come down again." "I'm sure you must be very weary, dear, with soaring up so high; Will you rest upon my little bed?" said the spider to the fly. "There are pretty curtains drawn around, the sheets are fine and thin, And if you like to rest awhile, I'll snugly tuck you in." "O no, no," said the little fly, "for I've often heard it said, They never, never wake again, who sleep upon your bed." Said the cunning spider to the fly, "Dear friend, what shall I do, To prove the warm affection I've always felt for you? I have within my pantry good store of all that's nice; I'm sure you're very welcome; will you please to take a slice?" "O no, no," said the little fly, "kind sir, that cannot be; I've heard what's in your pantry, and I do not wish to see." "Sweet creature!" said the spider, "you're witty and you're wise, How handsome are your gauzy wings, how brilliant are your eyes! I have a little looking-glass upon my parlor shelf, If you'll step in one moment, dear, you shall behold yourself." "I thank you, gentle sir," she said, "for what you're pleased to say, And bidding you good-morning now, I'll call another day." The spider turned him round about, and went into his den, For well he knew the silly fly would soon be back again: So he wove a subtle web, in a little corner sly, And set his table ready to dine upon the fly. Then he came out to his door again, and merrily did sing, "Come hither, hither, pretty fly, with pearl and silver wing: Your robes are green and purple; there's a crest upon your head; Your eyes are like the diamond bright, but mine are dull as lead." Alas, alas! How very soon this silly little fly, Hearing his wily flattering words, came slowly flitting by With buzzing wings she hung aloft, then near and nearer drew, Thinking only of her brilliant eyes, and green and purple hue; Thinking only of her crested head poor foolish little thing! At last, up jumped the cunning spider, and fiercely held her fast. He dragged her up his winding stair, into his dismal den, Within his little parlor; but she ne'er came out again! And now dear little children, who may this story read, To idle, silly, flattering words, I pray you ne'er give heed; Unto an evil counselor close heart, and ear, and eye, And take a lesson from this tale of the Spider and the Fly.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:56:07
Comments
CJ... I was never a baptized JW; right now my mom is again studying. I was raised to believe the truth and lived my whole adult life feeling that I failed HIM by failing the org. What got me, is when my mom started studying she asked if she can go with her teacher door to door, OH, no says the teacher, you can't do that, someone you know might open the door and it would put us in a bad light! Okay, then I read your pr man, Mr. Brown, publicly stating that the org allows and even sends 'known' pedophiles door to door, and that they may not send them to neighborhoods that know who they are. The SENDING THEM are what I see is harmful! I understand about the smoking thing, if we were discussing this in private or through email I would love to share my theories with you about it, but this is not the place to discuss that type of doctrine, excusing away pedophiles by saying that there aren't as many as in other religions, (not saying you said that) is in no way a plausible excuse. And stating that there has to be two or more witnesses to the abuse has to be some how changed in view of who the victims are or were! If it was your child or grandchild that came to you as their grandpa, could you then tell them as an Elder that 'sorry, my hands are tied, you have to come up with another witness, or more, or we have to wait and let the accused abuse another child to have another witness". ? Could you do that? Even if it's not of your blood and flesh, just another jw child that you call their parents brother and sister, If faced with this yourself, I hope it never happens either, but if it does? Why not try and get things as right as they can be now, before this issue is at your door knocking? Thanks for the posts, means a lot to me that you were willing to disclose yourself in this way! It hasn't stated here on this site that their are two peds in each congregation, it says that if the figure's are true then it's on 'average' that it's two, could be one congregation has 4 and yours is free, or it could be a congregation has 6 and that saves more congregations. Can you, if this is true, be a JW and not want to do something, are not moved to do something to help your fellow brothers and sisters? And their children? Even if they are not in your congregation, they are still yours! Right? I think that a lot of ppl here are still so into the teachings as I am, If I'm not mistaken there has been many times that I was taught by my grandma, who died a devout witness by not accepting blood, and my mom, and the teachers that I have studied with, that you have to look into the beliefs, the works of all religions and if there is one thing wrong, that is a red light to maybe that the religions isn't the true one. I've done that all of my life, with the trinity, with other things... and now I have nowhere to go.. But this isn't about me. I am just me. This is a place to hopefully discuss how to with the help of the word, and the courage, wisdom, and most importantly love, help and think of the children, this site centers around the JW's that are survivor's of abuse, the facts that even when the accused is found guilty in the eye's of the law the congregations flock to the guilty and forsake the survivor's. All of these stories cannot be fabrications. Saying that would have to be admitting that maybe all of the stories you have heard that was written in the wt and awake, may have been all fabrications! You still didn't answer my question, this is very important to me, so please, just a yes or no if fine. Give me some hope again that there is hope for me… If you needed a tutor for your child, and you called a company that provided this, and they sent out a tutor that had confessed to them that he/she were a pedophile but promised the company that he/she wouldn't do it again, would you still want that ‘known' pedophile to come into your house around your child? Simple question. Would you want a ‘known pedophile' to come knocking on your door? The PR man Brown stated in the papers that this is allowed, along with another witness of course, but even with another tutor there, would you want a ‘known pedophile' into your home around your child, around even you for that matter? You don't have to have ever been faced with that to know how to answer, do you? I understand that it is the obligation and the joy for fellow brothers to be able to forgive a repentant sinner. Do you feel that this is a sin that can be forgiven with just a promise not to do it again? And how many times and children have to be abused before you're not obligated to forgive? 7, or 77, or even 777?! Now, isn't that an interesting number? I did not even realize what that number represents, until I saw it typed… I mean, yes I knew what it is, but did not put it in for that reason, just popped out at me when I saw it! Humbling! You have to put yourself in the child's shoes. Think with a child's heart. Will you answer? And if you can put yourself in the child's shoes, as an Elder, could you try to put yourself in an innocent Elder's shoes, one who WAS faced with this, one who tried to help the child and was stone walled with ‘wait on Jehovah' not to change the subject but when I begged to be baptized and was told no cause I smoked, when I said that I've prayed and am waiting on Jehovah to take it away from me, cause I didn't have the will power on my own, my teacher sure didn't understand that, and I sure didn't get to proclaim my Love and TRUST that Jehovah was there and I wanted to dedicate my life to pleasing HIM, maybe if I was allowed to publicly proclaim this LOVE AND FAITH I could have been able to quit smoking! Catch twenty-two. Anyway, Thanks again for sharing part of your real self with me and us here. If you can't feel that you can answer my question(s) then I will understand. After all, we are supposed to understand right!! With love bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
16:58:30
Comments
The Mary Howitt poem was posted by-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:02:14
Comments
CJ: I realize your letter wasn't written to me but I'd like to add a few thoughts of my own. I have been in the organization for 27 years and it was my whole way of life. My first congregation was in Kansas. My friend in Liberal KS had three children and her husband sexually abused the two girls, but that was before the society tried to cover things up (around 1979-1980) and so he went to prison. Those girls' lives were ruined as time has clearly shown. Again in Kansas but different congregation my other friend had five children, girls and boys, and her baptized husband and his brother abused them in many sick ways. He wasn't charged with anything but he was disfellowshipped. Those kid's lives were ruined as time has clearly shown. Now Texas congregations and I know of two horrible molesters. First one raped little girls in the hall but was not DF'd and he went on a Bible Study with his wife and molested the householder's two little girls. He got ten years. Second brother raped his own daughter when his wife was trying to divorce him for abuse. He denied the charge but a few years later admitted it. He was never punished or df'd. Totally destroyed the daughter's life. Still Texas, but very dear friends 14 yr old daughter was raped. Silly little girl let a 19 yr old friend climb into her window as he had moved away and surprised her by coming to town one evening. Family was asked to cover up the incident; daughter is in prison on drug abuse charges now. Two more from Texas: In my own congregation an older teenager rapes the little girl he was baby sitting and a second teenager rapes the four year old sister of his friend. I don't have an explanation for what I know but these stories are true and four of the guys have police records now. I would like very much to discuss a federal law regarding admissible evidence in Child Abuse cases also but this is very long. My name is Nan

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:06:02
Comments
Hi CJ: Two primary thoughts I want to address to you as an elder, and then after that, a few questions and direct thoughts, that I think should make you think more about this situation you speak of. I'm an "older man" in physical years. So, I speak from experience...I served too as an elder for many years, in many different congregations. **********EXTREMELY IMPORTANT: (1) Do you, as an elder, concur with the disfellowshipment of BILL BOWENS, JOE ANDERSON, BARBARA ANDERSON, given the facts you have at hand? If so, what would be the scriptural grounds?************(2) Why can't the 2 "witness" Rule in child abuse cases be understood to include (a) the child abused and (b) the medical doctor (objective party) who examines child and offers professional opinion and medical "evidence"? (Evidence would include: tangible evidences of abuse [bruises, facial marks, so on] or direct evidence of sexual violation; doctor determines when making "examination", also in physical abuse cases violence, things like x-rays, lab reports, specific/medical tests results to determine abuse, other medical evidence, doctors written opinion, (maybe even a second opinion from another doctor who examines, etc.)******Shouldn't this type of "evidence" suffice and be in keeping with the scriptural two-witness rule, thus fulfilling the scriptural obligation of 1 Timothy 5:19? This same "evidence", medical evidence is used throughout the world and stands up in the "court of law" to convict accused rapists and child molesters, does it not? **********Wouldn't this "adjustment" of viewpoint, on the part of discerning "elders", show a "bringing in of a heart of wisdom". Especially on the part of the Governing Body's if they untied the hands of the elders, in such cases, and allowed this procedure for the benefit of the elders facing difficult circumstances in judging a case of child abuse within the congregation? ( See Psalms 90:12.) Your opinion as an elder, please? *******Further as an "elder", would you say these men of the Governing Body really discerning spiritual men, full of wisdom, and directed by God's Holy Spirit? Where is the "wisdom" among them? Or, does it make more sense to you as an "elder", for the Governing Body to attack other elders like BILL BOWENS and JOE ANDERSON, and disfellowship them for trying to address such a powerful issue, especially in view of what the Catholics are going through? Do we see wisdom displayed on the Governing Body, or brutality? Which approach makes more sense, to you? And what about the Governing Body's timing in handling these affairs? Did they as a body of elders, bring "glory to God", in the way THEY have handled this NEWS-MEDIA sensitive matter? Remember, it was in the news with the Catholics LONG BEFORE the JWs were the news and "talk of the town", right? So, do you think the Governing Body showed real wisdom, in the way they handled this whole affair? What's your opinion, as an elder?*************Also, what about other "witnesses" that can be used in Child Abuse cases: professional therapists to be called in and interviewed, along with child psychologists, and trained personnel with experience with deviant pedophiles (which most JW elders DON'T KNOW is a mental disorder, rarely if ever cured, according to studies on the subject. But how many elders know this?).************Why are we keeping the Civil Authorities out of the scene? Child Abuse is a crime, isn't it? Are we being taught by the Governing Body to "obey CAESAR"? (Romans 13:1,2) Why have they told so many "elders" and traveling overseers, when child abuse cases surface, NOT to go to the police and report it? Why? ******Also, why is the Governing Body so opposed to soliciting the professional help of outsiders who are EXPERTS in the field of Child Abuse, when Child Abuse cases occur with the JW community? ***********Are the bodies of elders you are a part of and acquainted with, TRAINED PROFESSIONALS in this field.***********I served alongside an elder for years...thought he was the greatest elder on earth...now he is in PRISON for violating countless children! True story. **********You are 35 years old...lots more to learn about WT policy and being an elder. I assure you!******** J.B. (Elder)

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:26:03
Comments
PLEASE READ THIS: My brother and I were abused when we were 10 & 11, respectively by an elders son years ago. I recall the horror on my mothers face when we told he of the incident. I also recall the big STINK my parents made with this brother. I've been in other situations that involved an elder. Although he did not actually molest me, he tried. That brother was disfellowhipped, not as a direct result of his actions towards me (since I never formally accused him) but he was eventually busted with some other unfortunate young kid. I have been through a lot in my life. It's been said a very interesting book can be written based on my life. I have suffered permanent scars that haunt me to this very day. As a matter of fact, recently I burst out crying and my wife panicked. When I told her I had been abused (she didn't know), we both cried. In summary, it has affected my life. It's hard to forget a bad experience. I've grown up since, and currently am doing well, by this world's standards. I have a high profile job that keeps me employed, a beautiful wife, beautiful kids, beautiful home, etc., etc., made many friends, and have what I consider a great relationship with our creator. I am glad I found this site. Before you welcome me, and tell me you love me, I'd like to share something with you. I am a happy JW. And guess what? My wife was abused by her grandmother (wordly). She too is a happy JW. Our point? First, not all abused “silentlambs” as you call us, YES US, leave the organization and embark on a smear campaign as a full time vocation. Second, it proves that a person can be abused by a either a JW or “wordly” person, and still be a JW. For the record, I am very upset by all that's going on, with Dateline, etc. etc. I happen to be a survivor of abuse. I object to all the negativity and insensitivity that is consistently displayed by JW detractors. Are you going to bash me for my current beliefs? Will you cast me aside? I am so disgusted. What would you say to me if I showed up to one of your rallies? Would you invite me to speak? Why not? I was abused. I suffer psychological problems. Will you abuse me verbally, now that I have shared that I am a JW? Am I evil? Am I brainwashed? Am I stupid? Am I a moron? Am I a zombie? Am I subjected to evil men who do evil things, who have some kind of agenda to take over the world? Am I that stupid that I can't see what's going on? Not all abused JW's take you road you have taken, for your information. I fully expect to be condemned by all who post to this site, in SPITE of the fact that I myself am a victim. Shame on you all. But I am NOT a silentlamb. I have a voice, and I choose to use it as I wish, no one has done that for me, and no one is forcing me. I will continue to proclaim the Kingdom of Jehovah door to door, as Jesus instructed his followers to do, until they drag me away in chains if you all ever accomplish your evil goal. I am not brainwashed as you claim I am. This is a conscious decision made by me, and me alone. I am a Jehovah's Witness, and proud to be one.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:55:04
Comments
This is JESIKA THOMAN-------------- All I do right now is cry. For those who don't know who I am, I am a survivor of sexual abuse and was at the press conference in Minnesota with Heidi Meyer and Bill Bowen. I live in Dallas,Tx and flew there within days of the conference. I used to be here everyday, and posted everyday. But now, as I am writing this, I am trying to see the screen through my tears, as to what this site has turned into. I do not feel if I was having a hard time or flashbacks that I could come here for support. Only to hear and see the same hate and anger I can see in myself(anger--not hate--more hurt than anything) and the family that won't have anything to do with the topic I need to talk about. My heart and soul is in pain and I don't feel I can talk to anyone here about it. It has changed soooooooooooooooooo much here. I wish I would have never let a day go by so I could have stopped it,but now that I need you guys, I feel I am amoung strangers--full of anger--and I don't need that right now. I leave you with a hurt heart and tears in my eyes---I need you guys!!! I just don't feel the field is the same here.That is why I expressed myself the way I did on the 8th. I may come back, when it goes back to what it should be. VERY HURT & NEEDING A SHOULDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesika Thoman,Dallas,Tx

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
17:55:30
Comments
Still crying!!!!!!!!!!!! Jesika Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:10:08
Comments
hi to all the lambs out there. my name is Rich, i'm an active JW and i've just read 'crisis of conscience'. its been said that it was a 'banned' book and that it shouldnt be read. well i'll make my own mind up on what i'll read and what i wont. if this book was merely lies, then what does the society fear from lies? it seems to me they fear the truth that is told in books like these. theres a lot of people who are now starting to question and have doubts about the FDS and rightly so. i was baptised 2 years ago and i was suspicious of the society then and they've done nothing to make me think any different, and now i've had to learn the truth from other people. i have posted comment on this site before under 'a concerned JW' because of paranoia, amazing isnt it, how the society can affect me like this. well im not gona be worried about what they think anymore.********* ive learned that the majority of JWs seem to be on what i can only describe as 'auto pilot'. they're too busy concerned about getting there reports in and attending meetings and their pre-studies that their true spiritual self becomes dormant, thinking that what they do is the most important thing and as long as they do what the society keeps drilling into them as to what they should do then thats ok. well i'll tell i dont pre-study ever, if i miss a meeting there's no big deal. if i put a report in late, who do i hurt? as long as i'm developing my relationship with God through Christ by studying Gods word, thats the important thing. i've brought out points in meetings that nobody else would have brought because the FDS never pointed to them scriptures in the first place. what possible benifit do i get from answering aquestion when we've already just read the answer? it just seems to be a way of conditioning the mind to accept what the FDS says and to obey what they say.******** somone mentioned before about not critising the society etc and that this site is just for cases of abuse. well the problem of covering up abuse isnt just about '2 witnesses' etc, its about the whole attitude thats developed by the FDS through all their dogma. when i was studying i was told that this wasnt a 'religon'. from what i've learned it is. they say theres no rules, but there is. there seems to be more rules than any other org i've known. people expect you to dress in a suit and have a side parting. well i wont wear a suit and i've got a skinhead, and i really couldnt care less what others think. i dont attend meeting to try and impress anyone and i have the right to be an individual. all these sorts of things the society try to opress. well i think for myself. i wont give my mind away. i have a bible trained conscience not a FDS trained conscience. if JWs want to do different then thats up to them, i wont try to change their way of doing things, and i expect others not to try and change me.****** i was disgusted by that GB member towards the end of the Panorama program. to me he just summed up their intire attitude by what he said. i told my mom that night i watched it that i considered myself as not being part of the society, only the congregation. i wont be attending anymore conventions and assemblies, where we get mind-controled to obey the FDS's every command. some JW's believe that the society will go through at armageddon, and not sur they'll survive the great tribulation. my thoughts and prayers got to Bill and his family and all those who have been betrayed by the society.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:26:23
Comments
Regarding - PLEASE READ THIS: I did read your post and thank you for sharing it with all of us. You were truly blessed to not have your faith destroyed by the abuse done to you. The lambs here were not so lucky. When they sought the care of the org they were hushed, kept quiet with threats of being kicked out and forsaken by HIM! There are many stories here that proclaim, not the dissension of the Witnesses but the reformation! So many other things have been ‘put in the kiln' to make pure, why not the now policies on this issue? Why kick out those who want to keep the children safe? How can the ones who have made this public be able to go back and rejoin the org when the policies are still the same? Yes, they can be repentant but for exactly what??? For wanting to keep future children within the org safe and sound? For being put in the position that the only way they could see to get things accomplished was to make the public aware of it? The org has certainly taken every opportunity to put the Catholics up to the spotlight. To be examined and as proof that they are not the true religion. Oh, what a blessing and joy to know that you are in the true faith when you see the suffering the poor Catholic children suffer at the hands of the very ones who's obligation within their religion to keep their spirits intact! Speak up and shout all ye of faith! As you were abused, you then probably feel as I do, the feelings that only an abused can feel, Do you? Do you feel an understanding for other abused? Do you feel a desire to help a child from any abuse? Even, if it is not a child that you personally know? Do you agree with the policies of the Organization? Knowing what you know, how hard it is to heal, it broke my heart to hear that you broke down and cried recently, but it was good that you were then able to tell your wife, so she could be there for you! Knowing though how it feels to be abused, would you want to see that burden on any other child? If there was something that you could do, and there is always something, would you do it? If it meant going against the teachings of the org, would you still do it, if it will save just one child from what you suffered. Some, as it seems maybe you can live normal lives, while others cannot. Some may not have the same support that you had from your parents, the same support as you had with your brother given that you shared the same experience and you may have been able to gain strength from that, as some of the lambs have gained strength in hearing that they are not alone in their suffering. I am not going to say that I agree with some of the ways things are being done. I am not going to say that I agree with all of the posts here. I am only saying lets all, in our own understanding of ‘how to survive' strive to do what we are here to do, proclaiming the GLORY of HIM is part of it. Protecting innocent babies and assisting the ones whose spirits are broken along with their bodies is also an important part too. Isn't it? Isn't it our obligation to help one another with the spirit of love and understanding, and with courage to know that although we are ALL not perfect, we can perfectly love ALL? bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:28:11
Comments
I am sorry you feel that way Jesika. I still admire you and all YOU stand for. I wish that people could unstand that I am not against any religion or any indivdual per se. I belive in the right to choose your own path. I do however have distain for 1/2 truths and outright lies. I hate crimes against children and violence in domestic issues. My point in the "propaganda issues" (which most of us are guilty of at one time or another) is when you have knowlege of what is going on then you don't have to get mad. You can call them on it and they can "fight fair" or "head to the sidelines." I wish that everyone would play by those rules. We would have a better world. You would not belive how beat up I get in Sociology classes when I refuse to play into the "mind-games." All "WE and YOU" have to do is say "No I won't be silent" one more time than they say "Yes you will." This is an issue where one group belives they have an exlusive channel to god. Just like the other religions that have the same belife. I however do not have their advantage. I do not belive that I am superior to other people. Now here is a request. GO! and get the Jewel CD I suggested. And then go get a Starbucks blended drink. and chill. Be happy, you are doing a good thing here. Everyone on both sides will benifit in the end. You will see. :-)Sequia

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
18:35:09
Comments
Jesika Thoman! I am so sorry, I had hoped that my posts today were going to help to get things back on track. If any of my posts hurt you please forgive me!!!!! I never meant to harm anyone. Please don't cry!! again forgive me, I have meant to only help and if I've harmed then I am truly sorry! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:06:05
Comments
see I,M SO GLAD THE JW DEFENDER HAS SEEN Alittle light i thing he,s going for jesus he wants it in time he might see all the light prov. 4:18 see how easy it is to take gods word out of the daRK!!!!IT SEEMS JWD LEARNED SO MUCH HERE FROM ALL THE DIFFERENT LOVERS OF THE TRUE CREATOR HERE WHEN YOU SEARCH AND ASK THE HOLY SPRIT COMES. KEEP SEARCHING IN YOUR HEART JESUS WILL LEAD YOU JN 6:66-69 14:6 ETC,ETC,ETC.ETCLET GOD BR TRUE ALL MEN LAIRS.IE BROOKLYN ROM3:4 MAT15:9ETC. ETC JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:10:52
Comments
To the Elder CJ: I appreciated your post - calm, rational etc...I would like you to read the Abused Lambs stories, and all the stories that have been posted in the last couple months. There is a valid concern for what happens to these children once they speak out. It is wonderful that the congregations you have been involved have not had these problems. Once an event like sexual child abuse happens in a family or a congregation nothing is every the same after that. It ruins families and it absolutely ruins congregations. Once a congregation is contaminated this way, it is very hard to undo - this is why it is so vital that there is zero tolerance. ***********You can call me a liar, say it doesn't count because I am not an elder - but in California, there were three different congregations, in three different parts of the state and 7 children (that I know of) were sexual molested by 2 different elders, and one MS, none were df'd or lost position. The one mother who went to the police - was shunned, dropped and not supported. Lost her children to foster care due to her instability which was in part due to the neglect of her congregation to support her.****************** ************************ Witness children are taught not to lie. If a child is taught not to lie and hears day in and day out that the father of the lie is Satan - I would believe that child if they told me someone did something bad to them.*******Anyway, I would like you to read the stories after stories. I also would like you to put yourself in the shoes of a father/mother or the child who was up against this two witness policy, in a time of need of support and help and understanding.**************It is hard to understand someone elses different experience - it can seem like some big drama, or a lie.************* ****************** One mother didn't press charges because she believed that Jehovah would work it out and that it would bring shame upon Jehovah. In congregations where everyone is related by marriage and blood it is very difficult to get the necessary support from the congregation. If all your friends are witnesses and they won't rock the boat- you have to fend for yourself. It is lonely, scary, and this particular woman thought it was just a test of her faith to remain silent and let Jehovah work it out. ************Anyway, I believe that your experience as an elder and having access to records has proved no pedophiles within the congregations that you have attended. I would like you to believe now, that others have had a different experience that is just as true and believable as yours.*********MY guess is that you yourself would have taken the same position as Bill Bowen if you had been in his position.***********Would you take pride in being an Elder if a fellow elder serving with you shoulder to shoulder as an equal was a known child molestor? It would make you re-think everything you cherished and was proud of in being an elder and one of Jehovah's witnesses. I would like to hear what you "feel"about the stories after you have read them and put yourself as an elder in the position of being a man of integrity and a lover of Jehovah- what would you do????? Claudine/soapbox

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:13:57
Comments
Dear Proud JW: I'd like to tell you a little story. When I was a young girl I was grabbed and fondled by a very popular man in my community. I escaped his clutches and never got that close to him again and I never told anyone. Recently I learned that my younger sister was also fondled by this man and she also stayed away thereafter and never told. Now I have learned that a friend of mine was raped repeatedly by this man and it very much messed up her life. Should I have told and saved the other girls? Yes, but I was just a dumb kid and so I forgive myself. Should you have told and saved the other boy or boys? That's yours to decide but what if you had and no one believed you? What if you and the other boy went together to the elders and still your testimony was disallowed? What if (as has happened so often in the stories on the Silentlambs website) the children did tell. They and their parents tried to seek justice but Society's rules protected the Pedophile and allowed to continue to destroy other children's lives. Up to seventeen children before Fitzwater was stopped. What if I had told and my parents had taken both of us little girls to the police and the police had denied us justice? Would you consider it wrong of me to try to change the law of the land? If this happened in the Catholic Church would you think it wrong to ask for accountability? Children are abused under many circumstances but this site is about what happens after the fact. Now if you have read the stories of the abused children and not understood that this site was about changing policies and about justice for victims you must have missed something.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:24:09
Comments
Nan, I would be very interested in the federal law you spoke about! Thank you for helping me make my point about the 'average thing' knowing that you are aware of more than two pedophiles in one congregation was a great help! I think that the statement made on the home page here was misunderstood and that helped clear it up. I am also interested in knowing if there is a Federal law regarding allowing ‘known pedophiles' to go to peoples home, for any reason, they can't have a ‘privilege' to do so just because they are in a religion, I wouldn't think. And as far as having to wait until something occurred as SLC mentioned, I sure hope not, then it's to late! Better to stop the cart before it goes over the mountain than trying to pull it back up after! If something does have to occur first, my argument is that it has! The act of allowing and sending the “going to a child's home a ‘known pedophile', is putting children in harms way! If they are allowed to do this it should be a law then that they have to tell the person at the door just what they are and give that person the choice of accepting them into their homes! I don't see that happening. I don't give two hoots care that they go with another witness! And I can forgive anyone anything, it's who I have to be, but I still would have to protect the children! If the org can do this then a school can hire teachers that say “hey I'm a perv but I won't do it if you hire me I promise”! And if I'm not mistaken, even pedophiles that have served their time are still kept away from children, or are supposed to stay away from them! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:32:46
Comments
SEQ! Great poem! A lot of 'food for thought' You should send it to Mr. Bowen thru email, he may not be able to view the guest book. Great poem! ty BLM

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:32:56
Comments
To CJ. I tell you the truth CJ. I saw and heard many like you in so called Christian Congregations of Jehovah's witness. You are very polished with your words but it is just the same. You are not truthful. You know what I mean? RMK

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:42:49
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:46:20
Comments
Dear Bonnielynn: This probably isn't what you were looking for. This has more to do with that crazy statement “You wouldn't want to be falsely accused” The WTS and elders have made it seem that FALSE ACCUSATIONS are common. This is NOT TRUE. The US governments statistics show that Proven False accusations happen less than .01% of the time. However, 50% of sexual abuse claims are unsubstantiated. Are these claims therefore FALSE? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Unsubstantiated is unproven, uncorroborated, unsupported or charges that are not actionable for one reason or another. That does not mean the charges are false. In fact 34% of charges are never brought before a jury because the victim is too young to testify. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Much discussion has been given that child molesters do not have two witnesses and with Judicial Committees or in a court of law people are innocent until proven guilty. A shouting match of he said she said is not a convicting case. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Remember Mr. Alva (Samantha Runnion's murderer) had been previously charged with sexual assault of his girl friends daughters. The charges were not substantiated, however, nor were they false. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . It is because of the difficulty of proving sexual assault charges based on the testimony of one witnesses that new Federal Rules of Evidence were adopted in 1995. Basically the law allows a previous CHARGE (not a conviction) of sexual assault to be introduced as evidence in a court case. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Rules 413 and 414 specifically provide that in any case in which the defendant is accused of sexual assault or molestation, the defendant's commission of any other similar offenses is admissible "for its bearing on any matter to which it is relevant." Rule 415 specifically extends the rule to any civil cases arising out of sexual assault or molestation. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The new rules will supersede in sex offense cases the restrictive aspects of Federal Rule of Evidence 404(b). In contrast to Rule 404(b)'s general prohibition of evidence of character or propensity, the new rules for sex offense cases authorize admission and consideration of evidence of an uncharged offense for its bearing "on any matter to which it is relevant." This includes the defendant's propensity to commit sexual assault or child molestation offenses, and assessment of the probability or improbability that the defendant has been falsely or mistakenly accused of such an offense. Why is this type of evidence allowed in sexual abuse cases? . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . In support of the new rules, advocates argued that a history of similar acts in child molestation cases, for example, tends to be probative because it demonstrates an unusual disposition that does not exist in ordinary people. In addition, the difficulties proving cases of child sexual abuse were cited to Congress.(Source http://www.smith-lawfirm.com/Rule415.html

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:48:22
Comments
TO JOHN FROM THE BRONX: you need to knock it off! None of us here are into being crude, not in words or thought. You are welcomed here if you want to discuss calmly, without name calling or being crude how you "feel." This web site is NOT about hating the WTS - there are more appropriate places for that which I don't visit myself. Silentlambs is for the sexually abused - those who support them emotionally and spiritually. Most of us do not have the desire to confront JW's - but we do have the desire to protect and help those who want it.PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF. You are being offensive and you are hurting the purpose of this web site. We are commanded to not return evil for evil. No one here advocates evil here. We want justice served with mercy. Bill Bowen has carefully chosen his words and actions so as not to bring "just" reproach upon the Silentlambs or himself. PLEASE KNOCK IT OFF! I know you are angry - but it isn't useful to us here. This isn't about ruining the WTS society, but is about protecting children. Different focus. I will personally ask the webmaster to remove your posts if you continue to be crude and offensive. Soapbox!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
19:49:11
Comments
Bonnielyn: I hope that last post showed the importance of reporting ALL INCIDENTS of sexual assault. Even if the evidence is unsubstantiated it can be admitted in court later to convict a molester. . . . . . . . . . . I would like to discuss a few points from the current Department of Justices Statistics. The report is entitled Sexual Assault of Young Children as Reported to Law Enforcement: Victim, Incident, and Offender Characteristics. _ I believe this report is best hard evidence available. The introduction of the report states: To law enforcement and the public, sexual assaults, and especially the sexual assaults of young children are a major social concern. While a few highly publicized incidents are engraved in the publics consciousness, there is little empirically based information on these crimes. Until recently, law enforcement and policymakers had few hard facts on which to base their response to these crimes. After reading the facts below I am sure you will agree that the conviction rate for sexual assault is dismal. Probability of arrest and clearance The NIBRS (FBIs National Incident-Based Reporting System)data indicate that an arrest was made in 27% of all sexual assault victimizations. Assaults against the youngest victims were the least likely of juvenile victimizations to result in arrest. An offender was arrested in just 19% of the sexual assaults of children under age 6, compared to 33% of victims ages 6 through 11, and 32% of victims ages 12 through 17. (Source http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/saycrle.pdf An arrest is not a conviction so all told the numbers are pretty dismal for the VICTIMS not for the accused.

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
21:11:06
Comments
***Jesika, my dear neice...please hang in there girl. I have read these posts you describe, and I can truly understand why you are so upset. I agree completely that the anger and hated expressed by many have done nothing for the cause. Keep in mind, honey, that this site is public domain and anyone and everyone has the right to express whatever they feel whether we like it, agree with it, disagree, or simply shake our heads at their stupidity. Personally, I was thrilled....to see that admitted Elders are here posting messages, however ironic! Considering that congregation "pions" would be df'd in a heartbeat for accessing this site, amongst others. To the Elders here......welcome. I am very happy that you are here, reading all these posts, reading the horror stories of all of us that have been through hell within the Org. Although this site was created for the abused/molested/raped children, I can understand why topics of doctrine have been raised here, although I'm not the least bit interested in seeing the Daily Text amongst other things posted here. If I was interested in seeing that, I know where to get it. Brother Elder, considering the fact that you were willing to access this site which is considered a big no-no, post messages here too, it seems to me that you are somewhat different than most elders. All of the elders I've known have all been "hardcore", unwilling to hear another side other than their own preconceived notions. I applaud you for coming here. I would like to recommend something to you, just for your own enlightenment. All my life, growing up in the Org, there were regular talks in which the phrase "Make sure of all things" was used. Other phrases, which escape me right now, were used as well to explain that each of us have the personal responsibility to be absolutely sure and convinced that what we believe is really the Truth. I always found it interesting that it was always applied to non-witnesses or those just studying. I took it further; I took it to heart and decided that I needed to know for myself if what I was being taught my entire life (I'm now 42) was really the Truth. Since many references are made in magazines and books to sources for material by those who are not/were not Witnesses, I figured....why can't I do the same thing? Why can't I research doctrine, read material/books written by those who are not Witnesses, just like the Org does? During my search, I stumbled quite by accident upon a book written by a former Governing Body member, yes....Ray Franz. I figured, who else but a former GB member could give me some insight into some subjects, and insight into the inner workings of the GB, who controls and dictates every thought process, belief, and all actions within the Org. I read that book from cover to cover, and I've also read his new, updated 4th Edition of the same title. Brother Elder, that is a book every Witness should read and "let the reader use discernment". If you feel comfortable accessing this site, then I would think you'd also be open to reading details of the GB, how decisions are made about every single thing pertaining to Witness beliefs, doctrines, etc and give yourself the opportunity to read information NO Elder, MS, or publisher is supposed to see. Is it any wonder why the GB "banned" that book? His book can be found at www.freeminds.org I would personally love to hear your comments once you've read it. Reader use their own discernment. Make sure of all......things. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
09 Aug 2002
Time:
23:14:52
Comments
Appeared in Awake! October 8, 1993 ///// Time noted that this conspiracy is crumbling at last. Why? In a word, education. It is as Asiaweek magazine put it: "All experts agree that the best defence against child abuse is public awareness." To defend their children, parents must understand the realities of the threat. Don't be left in the dark by misconceptions that protect child abusers and not children.//// Be sure, for example, to forestall any attempt by an abuser to create a secret pact. Children should know that it is never all right for an adult to ask them to keep a secret from either parent. Reassure them that it is always proper for them to tell—even if they had promised not to. (Compare Numbers 30:12, 16.) Some abusers blackmail the child if they know that the child has disobeyed some family rule. "I won't tell on you if you won't tell on me" is the message. So children should know that they will never get in trouble for telling—even under these circumstances. It is safe to tell.//// Make sure you get to know well any adults or older youths who are close to your children,///// Listen to the Children!///// IN BRITISH COLUMBIA, Canada, a recent study examined the careers of 30 child molesters. The results were chilling. The 30 individuals had, between them, abused 2,099 children. Fully half of them held positions of trust—teachers, ministers, administrators, and child-care workers. One molester, a 50-year-old dentist, had abused nearly 500 children over a 26-year period.///// However, The Globe and Mail of Toronto notes: "In 80 per cent of cases, one or more sectors of the community (including friends or colleagues of the offender, families of victims, other children, some victims) denied or minimized the abuse." Not surprisingly, "the report suggests that denial and disbelief allow abuse to continue."///// Some of the victims had told on the abusers. However, "parents of young victims were unwilling to accept what their children were telling them," The Globe and Mail quotes the report as saying. Similarly, a government official in Germany recently cited a report that child victims of sexual abuse have to approach adults with their story as many as seven times before they are believed.////// ." ////Isolation////, ////rigidity///, and ///obsessive secrecy///—these unhealthy, unscriptural attitudes are trademarks of the abusive!!!!!!! In the meantime we must do all we can to protect our children. They are so precious! Most parents will readily put their own safety at risk in order to protect their little children. (Compare John 15:13.) If we don't protect our children, the consequences can be horrible. If we do, we give them a wonderful gift—a childhood that feels innocent and free from calamity. They can feel just as the psalmist did, who wrote: "I will say to Jehovah: 'You are my refuge and my stronghold, my God, in whom I will trust.'"—Psalm 91:2//// Thank you again wt website! ty ty ty for writing suce a powerful work! I especially liked, ." //////////////////////Isolation, rigidity, and obsessive secrecy—these unhealthy, unscriptural attitudes are trademarks of the abusive /////////// ARE NOT THE ORG ITSELF THEN IN THIS CLASS? CLASS OF THE ISOLATING, RIGIDITY, AND OBSESSIVE SECRECY- AND ARE NOT THEY THEM SELVES CALLING THIS UNHEALTHY? UNSCRIPTUAL ATTITUDES?AND TRADMARKS OF THE ABUSIVE?????? me

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
00:43:42
Comments
To the ex-elder who responded to the current elder in KY: When the doctor collects all the evidence from the abused child, If YOU don't alert the police, THEY will. The questions and arguments you present sound so ridiculous. A room in the back of the Kingdom Hall is probably not the place you want evidence to be stored or displayed. Seems to me you are more worried about making sure criminals don't get privileges than about making sure they are accountable in the eyes of our legal system. Case closed.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
01:19:08
Comments
I AM AN EX JEHOVAHS WITNESS. I WAS BORN INTO THE RELIGION. I LEFT WHEN I WAS 18 YEARS OLD. I NEVER REALLY BELIEVED IN THE TEACHINGS AND MOST OF THE TIME I FELT GUILTY BECAUSE I WAS MADE TO FEEL THAT WAY..LIKE I WASN'T WORTHY. MY MOTHER WAS DISFFELLOWSHIPPED IN 91 AND I NEW WHAT WAS EXPECTED OF ME AND THERE WAS NO WAY I WAS GIVING UP MY MOTHER ...I LEFT AND HAVE BEEN HAPPY EVER SINCE ,.,

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
01:20:04
Comments
CZYKATT@AOL.COM

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:09:16
Comments
Eric Henri, Who associates with the Orleans West Congregation In Ottawa, Ontario, Canada. Is a repeated sexual predator and Pediphile, but he all married up now!! good front Eric. at the very least he should be forced to have a letter in his record file, but the society once again is failing to protect the public and the congregation from this type of SCUM. All I can hope is people see this and will want answers. ME Ottawa, Canada

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:33:56
Comments
http://dailymotivator.com/memberflash/rightnow.html I posted this back in May when things were a little tense. I hope that it eases some frustrations.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
02:44:49
Comments
Hey Bill df or not you are still nr 1. Nordic

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
07:21:26
Comments
I am a person that was molested and raped for 9 yrs and i am so sick and tired of people defending the damm JW'S who did this. What the hell is wrong with you you have a screw lose in that brain of yours? You would think people wanna protect children BUT NO read yesterdays NEWS HEADLINE across our nation ANOTHER SEX RING busted EVEN PARENTS were found to b molesting these kids SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG IN OUR WORLD THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE IN SIDE KH DONT DO MORE THEN WHAT THEIR DOING WITH THESE what ever you wanna call a pervert PERVERTS should NOT BE GIVEN more chances I WASNT GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE TO HAVE MY LIFE BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE SOMEONE MESSED MY WHOLE LIFE UP FOR 9 FREAKIN YEARS I WILL have to live with all this BUT SEE I AM LEARNING I AM BETTER THEN THESE DAMM PERVERTS CAUSE I DONT HAVE TO LET THEM RUIN MY LIFE i can go on ALL THE VICTIMS OUT THERE HANG ON BECAUSE SOME DAY JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE PERVERTS and its NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
07:21:46
Comments
I am a person that was molested and raped for 9 yrs and i am so sick and tired of people defending the damm JW'S who did this. What the hell is wrong with you you have a screw lose in that brain of yours? You would think people wanna protect children BUT NO read yesterdays NEWS HEADLINE across our nation ANOTHER SEX RING busted EVEN PARENTS were found to b molesting these kids SOMETHING IS VERY WRONG IN OUR WORLD THAT THE GOVERNMENT AND THE PEOPLE IN SIDE KH DONT DO MORE THEN WHAT THEIR DOING WITH THESE what ever you wanna call a pervert PERVERTS should NOT BE GIVEN more chances I WASNT GIVEN ANOTHER CHANCE TO HAVE MY LIFE BACK TO THE WAY IT WAS BEFORE SOMEONE MESSED MY WHOLE LIFE UP FOR 9 FREAKIN YEARS I WILL have to live with all this BUT SEE I AM LEARNING I AM BETTER THEN THESE DAMM PERVERTS CAUSE I DONT HAVE TO LET THEM RUIN MY LIFE i can go on ALL THE VICTIMS OUT THERE HANG ON BECAUSE SOME DAY JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE PERVERTS and its NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
08:18:54
Comments
to that guy rich. jesus is so happy to have found a lost sheep i,m glad you have a brain. your doing the right thing . but don,t be fooled the wt has demonic powers to bring you back. try to dictance yourself from them try fellowshiping with christians in other churches were thier not judgemental . ya,ll be suprised there are many christian people who let the bible speak . for it self . ray franz book is great but there is so much more to learn about the wt. freedom in christ to all. john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
08:40:52
Comments
bonnielyn i can almost hear the angels singing to the reply you gave that jw who posted read this. you were right on TARGET in saying if he was willing to go against the wt policy to save just one child. remember jws are taught that anything bad done to them means they are loyal to jehovah in bklyn. oh i mean god in heaven. john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
10:23:25
Comments
to soapbox i have to say you put up some great posts. but when you say to confront jw,s or the wt your contradicting yourself the whole idea is to confront the wt and let the word out . there wouldn,t be this big molesting problem in the wt if it was not for all thier lies after lies after lies the wt uses to glorfy themselves . that how thier getting away with with the sex cases. let me ask you when your on the street and see jws do you stop and tell them about all the molesters in the wt and how the wt lies to cover it up. i wonder if you got the love of christ to so. sitting hear posting all day and not going out and letting feelings be heard is almost a sin ,let me tell you when i stop and expose the wt i,m a gentleman at the same time i,m not going to let anyone foricate with the word of god and belittle me . thats right i set them up just to show them how they lie to idolize the wt. did jesus not set up the pharisess.in thier lies . see when jw defenders come here and say bill should wear a clown suit etc. and i read it i,ll straighten them right out . it,s called a taste of thier own medicine. and i know jws can,t handle it but they love to dish it out!!!!!this is war i,m doing my part to my ability. if all this abused lambs here posted the names of thier molseters and went to the district attorney office .maybe bill could get this thing going instead of just leaving this couragous man hanging out on a limb .i still stand by that any jw defender who stands behind the wt molester policy deserves the same sexual abuse done to them .what that verse an eye for an eye. that,s right i hit jws with question from left field i try to made them think .i understand wt brainwashing i give them something to think aboutand which ever lie a jw sees first in the wt if they use thier brains they will put it together and see the worst crime in all the wt is the sexual abuse of children. freedom in christ to all. john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
10:42:24
Comments
TO NAN: Thank you for all the usful and "reality check" information. **********TO ELDER J.B. - it is a comfort to know always that there are elders who are smart, compassionate, and don't see a conflict in caring for the sheep and loving Jehovah. The love is one and of the same. ***** TO JOHN FROM THE BRONX -thanks for toning it down - now I can read your words and understand what you are saying!!****TO JESIKA: I know you are not feeling well - I am so sorry. It is important to remember that this is the place where silentlambs come to be not-so-silent, to express their rage at an "elder" or JW who defends the two witness policy or denies there is a problem is healthy and harmless given it is on "cyberspace" ****************this is not the place for JW's to defend their position without compassion or be sacastic to people who have been harmed or are trying to help and when they do, it triggers alot of justified rage.********************I have found with my own issues I have had to take "a break" throughout the years. Please check how many new people (and storied) who support Bill and Silentlambs that keep posting!!!!! The rage never really goes away and will always reappear when the mind and heart can deal with it. You are in a "rest period" and don't want to be reminded of your own justified anger. A big big hug of comfort to you from me -Love, Claudine.....

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:00:38
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:04:31
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:33:32
Comments
you got to give it to BUSTER onaug 9 12:19:30his statements ring with the sound of fact you have to look at wt history to see were the wt is coming from just a few months ago i had the pleasure to read a new wt. that meat in due season . it said the great wt publication the time is at hand was bible truth???and the sound of judge rutherford on the record player reminded the people of voices of angels from heaven..INTERESTING. ANY ONE HERE READ THE TIME IS AT HAND BESIDES ME . JW DEFENDERS. I HOPE THIS POST DIDN,T UPSET ANY . FREEDOM IN CHRIST TO ALL.AMEM JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:34:56
Comments
I would like to hear personally from any J.W. that was abused sexually & child pornogragphy was involved . Total annonimity a must. Please send to cosmicjill@planetkc.com. Asap is very important!!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
11:57:01
Comments
Penny, Hi, I am so glad that you posted your story. As you probably have read, there are a lot of lambs just like you, if you can gain some strength from that, it can at least be a blessing! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
12:09:59
Comments
Gerard May Ex. J W since 1983. Mind blowing keep exposing the attrocities. Regards from Ireland

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
12:35:46
Comments
John: I work and go out all the time. I run into the JW's and I do talk about Dateline!! I can't help myself. But I don't tell call them liars or names - I confront them with my concerns. And it never ever ceases to amaze me that they show absolutely no regard for my concerns - they defend the WTS as if it is God. The Evil that prevails is everywhere, not just the WTS - agree or not???? *******************Read Nan's post about the justice system.... it is true what she says. I have a saying: Who is going to protect the children from the Child Protection Agency????? Story after story I have heard about Foster Parents molesting children, CPA ripping children away from their parents on bogus charges only to find later that the parents were innocent. ****************** I don't think the WTS is any more evil than anything else - I think everything is confused, and only God cares about us. Yes, we want to confront the WTS and JW but with righteouness and righteous standards - while they judge with unrighteous standards. I think this is what I mean by not returning evil for evil - and Jesus replaced all of that "law" with love. I do not mean and neither did Jesus mean that we are to love - affectionately those who hurt and harm, or who are hypocrites. Never!!! But we do not want to be "like them" with hateful words or actions - it is hard and I am guilty of doing just that sometimes.***************** Bill has methodically within the "rules" of WTS and using Ceasar's law to bring attention to the injustice of the two witness hypocracy.************** I hate what the WTS has done in the name of God and I hate that I was so seduced by it, that I lost my common sense and ability to think for myself.*******************But I do not hate the witnesses- pissed off- yes. Most of them are seduced, fearful of their own thoughts and think that Jehovah is judging them for seeing the hypocracy.************Now the GB, is another story - they are deliberate in their actions and they scare the "hell" out of me. What they did to the Malawi's is unforgiveable-I have read letters to the Nazi's stating the WTS position on the Jews -it was horrible - evil horrible. But the aveage JW does not know - and I have no answer. If a mother whose own child was molested by an Elder - and no action was taken because the mother is loyal to Jehovah aka WTS to me there is nothing I can say that will change the meaningfulness of her experience. I have tried - and the wall is thick.*********** I don't want a reputation of being a hater of JW's - then I can never speak with them. The Dateline/Panorama/the news articles/the march - if these save one child or parent past JW current JW or future JW from the unhealthy teaching of two witnesses to pedophilia - mission has been accomplished.***********The United States government is not protecting our children - the laws they are passing, the garbage they allow on television, what they allow to teach in the schools are all against family values. It is not just the WTS - but we all expected the WTS to have a higher value of standards.***************One of the biggest errors that I see is the WTS has taken over the family headship.**************Confront without being offensive is my motto, confront with Jehovah's standards - blameless - be blameless. Silentlambs and Bill Bowen, the Andersons, Franz all show a fine example of righteousness tempered with patience. Hey, I am Irish and French- holy smoley; I am a yeller, screamer and a fighter!****** Anyway, John I am sure that I have inner conflicts contradictions and say one thing and the next day have a different view. This whole subject has hit every aspect of my being and I am heartbroken. Claudine/soapbox

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
14:17:56
Comments
Claudine/soapbox-Becareful of how you compare things to the WTS and remember that all instituaitons are only real if people surrender power to them. Power is always surrendered not taken. Christian morality is easily preyed upon. Remember that. The statement that the WTS is no more or less/good or bad than anyone else is in my opinion bull. People in other groups do not act nor do what this particualr group does. I refuse to accept that John has been 100% wrong. He is angry over what is and has has been going on. We have the potential to help him work through it. "John I do understand your anger. Many of us have been able to use it in productive ways. Stephen Hanssen has a good program. Just as JWD stated it is a knee jerk reaction to defend your faith. He is right. But I do not condone the conduct that others like him have done like slandering Bill. That is pathetic at best. (I am not saying that you did JWD) The same we all should work at not giving wantan insults to each other they are not productive, they are what is called agitation. They are "thought stoppers." I.e. "Evil for evil."When I was goated with the trinity issue I said no period. Minus trying to put words in my mouth JWD accepted that discussion over. That is not the issue here. Zombies and "evil plans" are not why I am here. Public awarness is why I stick around. When I see the propaganda machine start up Like now like in May I will be sounding off.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
14:23:13
Comments
I would never ever wish this evil upon anyone - not as a parent or as the child who has been sexually abused or raped. This is where I disagree with John - there is no useful meaningfulness is this horrible experience. It ruins lives, precious beautiful children and their families. There must be another way for those who support pedophiles to have empathy and compassion for the ones that are hurting and have been harmed.************Even parents who are JW's lack this empathy for their own children out of the fear of displeasing Jehovah God and bring shame upon his name.***************My whole family has shown empathy to my children's abuser without showing a shred of empathy to my children. My siblings think that I am wrong to not "understand" about my brother who did this to my children.************* None of us are JW's - and I was the only one who studied. This loyalty to a pervert can be conjured up for "any reason" but to do it for Jehovah is way out in left field. I won't speak to my siblings anymore - out of loyalty to my children. I spoke my "peace" - and if they choose to not hear there is nothing I can do. ***********The irony of all of this is they will probably read about the WTS and call me a hypocrite because they will think that I support the JW's - oh well....I thank Jehovah that He saw fit to teach me right from wrong and gave me a heart that is receptive to right and wrong. I thank him for this clarity every single day and scutinize myself so as to always show my gratitude. I don't take it for granted. It is a fine line between being righteous and self-righteous. I cross it all the time. C.E.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
15:03:57
Comments
Gerard May Ex. J W since 1983. Mind blowing keep exposing the attrocities. Regards from Ireland /// Welcome Gerard! glad you stopped by! The lambs and future lambs need all the support they can get! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
16:10:12
Comments
Your web site is great and a true "window" on what has been going on. I live in Spain and have just come back from the U.K. where the shock waves about the Panorama programme were initially great, but all seems to have been calmed down again after reports that the whole programme was put on by apostates and that "Jehovah will sort everything out"....so once again everyone is bending the knee to direction from the platform. I was a JW for 28 years and I have not been associating for the last 2 years for so many different doctrinal reasons, but I am so concerned about this whole issue, and I wish you all the strength you need to deal with the situation. Perhaps Jehovah is using you to sort thing out. After all HIS name is involved!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
16:53:15
Comments
Regarding the comments - Perhaps Jehovah is using you to sort thing out. After all HIS name is involved //Welcome to the silentlamb site! And a special thank you for the comments that you have made! HIS name has been involved, in this and many other issues close to this, the two witnesses policy the org is hiding behind HIS word to excuse that! Regarding booting out the ones who wants to help open the eyes and hearts to this issue again, the org is using HIS word to excuse that! Not only that but even to the point of putting more burden by deceiving the followers of their org into believing everyone that wants to help the children are apostates for doing so.... When if anyone cares to look, their own Awake mag. in 1993 that we have to do ALL WE CAN TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN! As soon as Mr. Bowen and the Andersons proceed with what the Awake told them to do, which was ALL THEY CAN DO TO PROTECT THE CHILDREN they get the royal wt boot! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
17:11:11
Comments
From the Abused active happy JW (1)First, not all abused “silentlambs” as you call us, YES US, leave the organization and embark on a smear campaign as a full time vocation.(Answer) YOU ARE SO RIGHT. You can and should deal with events in the way that is best for you. However this is not a smear campaign. There are many documented cases here and the WTS point of view is not being taken out of context. “Smear campaign? No./Full time? No. (2) I object to all the negativity and insensitivity that is consistently displayed by JW detractors. (Answer) How is being against the policy of “child molesting, Spousal abuse, and abusing the disfellowshipping powers being a detractor? (I admit I think that the disfellowshiping thing is cruel and anti everything that the Jehovah's Witnesses stand for!) (3)Am I evil? Am I brainwashed? Am I stupid? Am I a moron? Am I a zombie?(Answer) I don't know are you? (4)Not all abused JW's take you road you have taken, for your information.(Answer) Nor should you have to. Nor should you have to be silenced! (5)I will continue to proclaim the Kingdom of Jehovah door to door(Answer) Maybe I will come with you and share “Crisis of Conscience.” (6)I am not brainwashed as you claim I am(Answer) If you were how would you know?/////// The Elder (1) I am currently serving as an elder here in a Kentucky congregation. I am relatively young in years (35 to be axact) and have served in 5 congregations already. (Answer)Welcome, I upfront said that I am not a witness nor have ever been. I do however carry 10 years of experience dealing with a JW family. Why were you not honest and upfront in the beginging? Why did you feel the need to covet who you were? There is no threat of violence here so why not be forthcoming? (Glad you were honest though.) (2) I have gathered from posts in this room and from Bill Bowens own comments it make it seem like their is 2 pedophiles in every congregation.(Answer) Where did you read that? I have not found that anywhere. (3) It is also their right to take the matter to police we would not discourage that.(Answer) Then why disfellowship Bill, Erin, and others? Would you have done that? You are not saying what would happen AFTER they go to the police. What you you do to them? (4) I do not know if this is fair to the accused if no witnesses can be provided to validate the claim.(Answer) they have evidence? Is this not just restating the 2 witness rule? (5) Thats all we can do our hands would be tied,(Answer) In my opinion anyone who did not rescue a “lamb,” anyone who covered up a crime has blood on their hands. (6) we offer alot of support for each other (Answer) Even pagans due that. How do you see the outside world? How do you treat those who do not or no longer share your policies or views? (7) you had a bad experience, you felt it wasn't handled properly and you left. (Answer) Bill was railroaded he did not leave! How many more are out there. Once shunned poop has more value than even your own flesh and blood. 20 years of service, 40 years of friendship would be flushed, and for what the hope that maybe the person will come crawling back. (8) Especially having served in so many congregations. There is a lot of good out there. (Answer) Out of how many total world wide organizations have you served? 5 is a rather small number. (9) But for me to leave what I know is the truth especially in comparing other religions (which I have done quite extensively before I became a witness) does not solve anything.(Answer) Is this not violating what “Stark” says? (10) please understand my views as I am sensitive to yours.(Answer) Sensitive how? Will you speak up for Bill? Do you support the action against him? Do you support the current GB position? Why?

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
17:59:06
Comments
to seq. your on the money abour bastardizing the scriptures twisted any way to protect what i see as an evil money hungry soul hungry empire. as for jr brown he,s a pharessie and hypocrite with his watch me twist jws into a pretzel stance on sexual misbehavior. he,s leaving the wt open to some sharp lawyer with his ludicriss statements just wait it will happen thats a prophecy my record is better than the fds. and your so right in the ignorance wt defenders show and that,s because they did not prove all things true. they have to open thier mind and do thier HOMEWORK.that the only way to see the light there are wt articles on this try 3 8 2001 what can we learn from history .and apply it to the wt. and i will stand with you and never budge on child molesters no matter weather people don,t like that i use that wt tactic of intimidation back on them when needed did the wt play by the rules when they shafted mr. bowen . freedom in christ to All. john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
18:21:57
Comments
10 Aug 2002 Time: 17:11:11 Comments Posted by SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
19:08:51
Comments
soap box were almost on the same page as for the gov,t and child protection agency at least they try . i see the same problems with these institutions as you but i know my grandmother was in an orfanage in the 20,s and it ruined her she never told me much but it was obvious she was hurt there.maybe i gave the wrong impression i just don,t stop and call jws liars i measure my words i tell the same things as you .my concerns how the wt has hurt people . and mislead them and i,m pretty good i try different topics to find thier concerns then i capitalize on it .i give wt articles and dates so they can look it up themselves.i also leave my phone # you be suprised some do call and ask for more info.i go as far with them as thier willing to go. but there are jws i,ve debated hundreds of time like my father and his friends some are very knowledgable i bust them almost all the time. so now i have a factual right at this point to call them lairs and the z____e word. because i,ve proved my point and they can,t honestly back up the wt with lying. and my father knows it. i know i,m causing problems in the co-op city cong. as well as else were cause i got jw asking questions the elders po,s co,s etc. can,t or don,t want to answer . i know because i here it through the grape vine .you know your making an impact when you run into a jw defender in harlem and they know your name . i would love to get some names of some jw child molesters in my area to expose them and cause more trouble . i would have no problem going to court to help the abused and expose the wt. see thats what i,m all about and i,m an asset to the silent lambs . and i,ll try to save the z word for jws that i have grown to love over the years. but sometimes these loved ones need tough love...freedom in christ to all john

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
19:19:24
Comments
CJ, If you do come back in here, I again want to tell you, thank you for writing me the post and sharing that you are an Elder, it meant a lot to me, that you would expose yourself in such a way. My earlier posts have covered most of my topis of issue, so this is just a special one just to say thanks! maybe once you found out that I was never a baptized jw, you didn't feel inclined to answer my questions, that's okay! I understand completely where you feel your loyalty has to lay! Regarding your comment about leaving what you know is the truth, I've not left the truth at all! I've just learned of more truth and the hint of more to be seen! I would never want to sway someone to change how they spiritually believe, their faith, that's why I don't even try to talk to my mother about this, it only upsets her and now in her older years with health problems... I do not want to show her dishonor... One thing she did say that scared me to death though was that 'if this faith is directed to satan, I am happy and at peace and I need to be that way' and all I asked her was that isn't it true that if it seems not from HIM then it's from the bad guy? and this issue with the child abusers is not from HIM right? I didn't know how to answer her with that comment! Anyway, thanks again for your posts to me... bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
20:59:09
Comments
Just filling you in. There's an article about all upcoming in Sunday's New York Times.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:27:46
Comments
what can we do to help the lambs get justice after many many years of torment and cover ups.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:37:04
Comments
8/11/02 New york times, front page. Barbara Anderson, Joe Anderson, Bill Bowen, Ya'll ROCK!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:40:02
Comments
what can we do to help the lambs get justice after many many years of torment and cover ups. -- Reply: For starters, Keep the pressure on the media to keep this issue in the news and before the public (write them, send them URLS, newspaper articles from this site, etc.), who in turn keeps the pressure on the law enforcement agencies and the court/legal systems. Write your politicians. Also, write letters to the WTS/GB. Also, see the "HELP SILENT LAMBS" button on the Home page.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:41:38
Comments
YES, YES, YES!!! IF YOU'RE UP AT 3 AM, HEAD OUT TO THE STORE AND GET A COPY OF THE SUNDAY (8-11-02) EDITION OF THE NEW YORK TIMES! THERE WILL BE AN EXTENSIVE ARTICLE ON THE SILENT LAMBS!!! HURRY & HURRAY!!! CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT!!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:43:36
Comments
John, you crack me up. You wrote: "you know your making an impact when you run into a jw defender in harlem and they know your name." -- Tell me, were you this "zealous" when you were a JW? (I forget if you were ever a JW or not, I know your father is). Either way, you certainly deserve the title of "Pioneer" with your current street work! :-) I could tell even thru your anger you were "cool." Glad you are leaving out the curse words, though. It's easy for any of us to go a little wild sometimes, especially about this sex abuse subject, and the WT-machine. You must have a mind like a steel-trap being able to remember so many WT-literature details AND scriptures. Keep up the good work and thanks for supporting Silent Lambs. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:44:23
Comments
THREE CHEERS for whoever replied the thought-provoking questions and answers to "From the Abused active happy JW (1)First..." THANK YOU! When I am too tired to write much, I sure do appreciate reading how others express themselves, and enunciate the facts so well. Thanks again. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:45:24
Comments
NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE on "Silentlambs"/Bill Bowens - Read it Here!!!************* LINK TO ARTICLE:

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=34280&
page=1&site=3#455607
For those who can't wait till Sunday... OUSTED MEMBERS CONTEND JEHOVAH'S WITNESSES' ABUSE POLICY HIDES OFFENSES: by By LAURIE GOODSTEIN ****************** William Bowen always considered himself a devout Jehovah's Witness. As a child, he felt it was his duty to go door to door passing out the church's magazine, The Watchtower. Later, as an elder in his Kentucky congregation, he said he saw it as his duty to inform church officials that a fellow elder had abused a child. *************** But when Mr. Bowen contacted the church's headquarters in Brooklyn, he says, he was rebuffed. Frustrated by the church's inaction and by its confidentiality provisions, which he said prevented him from sharing the information with others, Mr. Bowen resigned as an elder in December 2000. A year later, he started a group to monitor child sexual abuse in the church. ****************** Late last month, Mr. Bowen, 44, was **EXCOMMUNICATED FROM THE CHURCH**. Behind a locked door, with PLASTIC BAGS TAPED OVER THE WINDOWS TO WARD OFF ONLOOKERS, he said, three church elders meeting at the church's Kingdom Hall in Draffenville, Ky., found him guilty of "causing divisions." ***************** The punishment was "DISFELLOWSHIPING" COMPLETE SHUNNING. **************** In the past three months, four other people have been expelled from the Jehovah's Witnesses after accusing it of covering up the sexual abuse of children by its members. For Mr. Bowen and other critics of church policies on sexual abuse, the expulsions are part of a concerted effort to keep such abuses quiet. ************************ Expelled Witnesses say the church's own policies and culture conspire to conceal abuse. A panel of church elders, all men, meets in secret to decide each case, a procedure which critics say prevents members from knowing there is an abuser in their midst. To prove an accusation, a child must have a witness to the incident, a condition that is usually impossible to meet. ********************* "This is evidence for the world to see how the Jehovah's Witnesses treat abuse survivors and those who try to protect them," said Mr. Bowen. "They silence them with the threat of disfellowshiping." ******************** J. R. Brown, director of the public information office at church headquarters, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, in Brooklyn, said the church had exemplary policies for handling sexual abuse, which were based on biblical standards and had been widely published in church magazines. ******************* "We're not trying to say we handled everybody in the right way and our elders are all-knowing, all perfect," said Mr. Brown, who declined as a matter of policy to comment on individual cases, including Mr. Bowen's. "But we say, if you take what our policy is for keeping our organization clean morally, **IT FAR OUTPACES ANYBODY ELSE'S**." ************************* While the Roman Catholic Church has been engulfed in its own sexual abuse scandal, the same issue is beginning to plague the Jehovah's Witnesses, a denomination that claims one million members in the United States and six million worldwide. ******************** But the shape of the scandal is far different than in the Catholic church, where most of the people accused of abuse are priests and a vast majority of the victims were boys and young men. In the Jehovah's Witnesses, where congregations are often collections of extended families and church elders are chosen from among the laypeople, some of those accused are elders, but most are congregation members. The victims who have stepped forward are mostly girls and young women, and many accusations involve incest. ********************* The scope of abuse in the Jehovah's Witnesses is a matter of considerable debate. The church has recently been sued by eight plaintiffs in four lawsuits alleging abuse, one filed in July in Minnesota. Mr. Bowen says that his victims support group, "silentlambs," has collected reports from more than 5,000 Witnesses contending that the church mishandled child sexual abuse. ************************ The church keeps a database of members and associates who have been accused or found guilty of child abuse. Mr. Bowen said church sources had told him the database contained the names of more than 23,000 people in the United States, Canada and Europe. The church says the number is "considerably lower," but will not say what it is. ************************* The church has a firm framework for handling sexual abuse cases. Members who suspect abuse are advised to go first to the elders, who are considered spiritual and moral leaders to whom the members are to turn with their personal problems. Mr. Brown said that the church's legal department advised elders to follow the law in states that have mandatory reporting laws, and in cases in which children appear to be in danger. ************************** The elders are the ones required to judge whether someone has committed a sin like child abuse. If the abuser confesses and is forgiven, the only notice given to the congregation is an announcement that the person has been disciplined. No reason is announced. However, the elders report the person's name to headquarters, where it goes into the database so that abuser is banned from serving in a position of authority. ********************** "If a person can cry a good tune, there are virtually no repercussions and nobody besides the elders ever knows," said Jean Kraus, who said she went to elders in her Queens congregation years ago accusing her former husband of abusing their daughter. She said that he confessed, was reprimanded and was still an active Witness. "They told me that **HE WASN'T A WICKED MAN, THAT IT WAS A WEAKNESS**," she said. *********************** The church spokesman, Mr. Brown, said: "We view such judicial hearings as an extension of our shepherding work as ministers. In other words, **WE'RE THERE TO SAVE A PERSON'S SOUL. IN THESE CASES WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE VINDICTIVE BECAUSE THESE ARE OUR BROTHERS, AND WE WOULD HOPE THAT THEY WOULD CHANGE**." ************************** If the accused denies the allegation, the victim's testimony alone is not sufficient unless there is at least one other witness to the act. The church says its policy is based on a scriptural injunction in Deuteronomy 19:15 that says two or three witnesses are necessary to prove a man has sinned. ************************ Heidi Meyer, a third-generation Jehovah's Witness in Annandale, Minn., said she went to her elders in 1994, when she was 15, to say that from the ages of 10 to 13 she had been repeatedly molested by a fellow Witness eight years her senior, the older brother of a friend. The only eyewitness was her brother, who had once seen the man grab her buttocks as she got out of a car. ************************ The elders asked explicit questions that made her uncomfortable, she said. According to an internal Witness document "PAY ATTENTION TO YOURSELF AND TO ALL THE FLOCK," the elders must determine in which category the accusation fits: IF IT WAS "UNCLEANNESS," A ONE-TIME TOUCHING ABOVE THE WAIST; "LOOSE CONDUCT", TOUCHING BELOW THE WAIST OR MORE THAN ONCE ABOVE; OR THE MOST SEVERE, "PORNEIA," DIRECT SEXUAL STIMULATION OR ACTIVITY RESULTING IN ORGASM. EACH OFFENSE CARRIES DIFFERENT PENALTIES, with the most severe for porneia. ************* The man she was accusing insisted that Ms. Meyer had misinterpreted what happened. The elders agreed. ****************** "I was expecting spiritual guidance," Ms. Meyer said. "I was expecting them to genuinely, sincerely attempt to find justice and protect the rest of the congregation from this same thing happening. And none of that happened." ********************* She, like several other alleged victims and their relatives, said in interviews that the elders warned her against reporting the abuse or talking about it with other members. ************************* "They told me if I spoke about it with anybody, I needed to be careful because I could face a judicial committee for gossip or slander," she said. "If they felt I had committed that sin, I would be disfellowshiped." ************************** Ms. Meyer says she learned only years later that Amber Long, another young woman in the congregation, had at age 12 gone to the elders with her parents to report that she had been molested by the same man. Ms. Long, who is now 23, said she and her parents received a letter from the Witnesses advising her to "leave it in Jehovah's hands." ************************** "They said we shouldn't hold ill feelings about our brothers," Ms. Long said. "Since there weren't two eyewitnesses, they said there wasn't much they could do." ************************** Neither Ms. Long nor Ms. Meyer is still active in the Jehovah's Witnesses. On July 2, the two women filed suit against the man they accuse of molesting them Derek Lindala, 30, of South Haven, Minn. the local congregation, and Jehovah's Witness headquarters. Mr. Lindala did not respond to a message left at his home seeking comment. *************************** Barbara Anderson, of Tullahoma, Tenn., said that when she and her husband lived and worked at church headquarters in Brooklyn in the 1990's, she was asked to gather information about child abuse in the congregations. She said she handed over to church leaders dozens of letters complaining about how cases were handled. For her it was a revelation. ************************** "Jehovah's Witnesses like to say that we have one of the most crime-free organizations," Mrs. Anderson said. "But all problems are taken to the elders, and the elders keep them quiet." She said that the documents prompted an internal debate among church leaders, and that when there was no action, SHE LEFT HEADQUARTERS DISHEARTENED IN 1993, after 11 years of volunteering. ************************** Carl A. Raschke, a professor of religious studies at the University of Denver who has written about the Jehovah's Witnesses, said the group was no different from many other insular religions that aspire to theological and moral purity. ************************ "Groups that tend to be very tight-knit and in-grown historically have a higher incidence of sexual abuse and incest," Dr. Raschke said. "That's an ethnological fact. When a religion tries to be thoroughly holy or godly, it's not going to acknowledge that people aren't living up to the ideals of the faith." ****************** On July 25, Mrs. Anderson was **EXCOMMUNICATED**. A week later her husband, Joe, who had earlier resigned as **AN ELDER AFTER 42 YEARS, WAS ALSO EXPELLED**. "It is inconceivable to think elders would investigate an allegation of murder to determine guilt or innocence, so why would we investigate an allegation of child abuse?" Mr. Anderson wrote in his resignation letter. "THIS IS JUST NOT OUR FIELD OF EXPERTISE. We are ministers of God, not police." ****************LINK TO ARTICLE: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=34280&page=1&site=3#455607

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:54:48
Comments
For a change of pace, how about some secular history with a twist... ----- "Beware the (GB) leader who bangs the drums of (theocratic) war in order to whip the (JW) citizenry into a patriotic (WTS) fervor, for (WTS) patriotism is indeed a double-edged sword. It both emboldens the blood, just as it NARROWS THE MIND. And when the drums of (theocratic) war have reached a fever pitch and the blood boils with hate and the mind has CLOSED, the (GB) leader will have no need in seizing the rights of the citizenry. Rather, the (JW) citizenry, infused WITH FEAR and BLINDED by (WTS) patriotism, will OFFER UP ALL THEIR RIGHTS unto the (GB) leader and gladly so. How do I know? For this is what I have done. And I am Caesar." -- Julius Caesar

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
22:58:58
Comments
JW for 28 Years wrote: I live in Spain and have just come back from the U.K. where the shock waves about the Panorama programme were initially great, but all seems to have been calmed down again --- Reply: NOT FOR LONG. See Sunday's New York Times! --- 28 Years continued... "after reports that the whole programme was put on by apostates and that "Jehovah will sort everything out"....so once again everyone is bending the knee to direction from the platform. ---- Reply: What was SEQ saying about the propaganda machine rolling out? (see her/his above quote). What JW/28 Years says is THE PERFECT EXAMPLE of the WT-Propaganda Machine In Action! Oh How I wish the current elders/JWs could SEE SEE SEE this blinding activity by the GB/WTS! (blame it on Satan, blame it on his tool, the media, blah blah blah -- such baloney!). --- Isn't it funny though, the TIMING of the Dateline show. B.Bowen and others were waiting since late last summer for it to air. Some supporters even began to believe it was never really going to happen. Yet, "by Jehovah's will" it did NOT AIR UNTIL AFTER the Catholic Church scandal erupted, which made the WTS LOOK ALL THE WORSE for bashing the C.Church all along over THEIR SEX SINS, and then, WHAMO! the WTS faces public humiliation by having their own sex sins exposed. Personally, I think the TIMING WAS PERFECT. It also would explain why WTS is more DESPERATE THAN EVER TO COVER THEIR A**/IMAGE, because of this very fact, that they POINTED THE FINGER SO MANY TIMES at the sex sins of the C.Church, all the while denying their own. Shame Shame. And now the NY Times will be out in a few hours! Hot Dog! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:03:04
Comments
Some Very Short-Sighted Person wrote: "Seems the Newspaper articles are becoming scarce, I wonder if the fickle media cares about the smear campaign you have going on now?" **** Response: I hope you EAT CROW FOR BREAKFAST when THE NEW YORK TIMES comes out!!! And if you start to choke, please don't come here looking for someone to perform the Heimlich maneuver on you!

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:05:55
Comments
NEW YORK TIMES ARTICLE (SCANNED PAGES) -- SUNDAY AUGUST 11th, 2002!!!!---- ---Bill Bowens, Joe & Barbara Anderson
OUSTED--"Silentlambs" Speak out!************Link to Actual New York Times Article (Scans of article)------Link of Scanned Copy of Article:
http://www.watchtowernews.org/nytimes081102.htm

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:06:59
Comments
" the governing body and JW's as a whole cannot be classified or branded as an overall bad people based on 1800s history.." *** Maybe not if their ERRORS had STOPPED THERE. But they didn't. They have continued well thru the Present. You have alot of reading to do yet, young man.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:31
Comments
Nan! THANK YOU for speaking up! I only know of one molester, but it really gets on my nerves these JW who keep trying to say it is "only a few." Bill Bowen and Barb & Joe Anderson know of hundreds (if not thousands) of other cases personally. And I TRUST the are telling the truth about this. The WTS even ADMITTED to the database. So how is it these JWs like CJ and JWD try to say there are "only a few." It is also true what you say how abuse destroys lives, and causes immense emotional torment. To cover it up and/or be told to keep silent is rubbing salt in an open wound. So, again, THANK YOU, Nan, for speaking up and showing everyone that THERE ARE MANY MORE as you, sadly, have had to experience firsthand. Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:12:53
Comments
WOW to the Spider & The Fly story! I never knew the whole thing. That is so PERFECT (a) perfect description of how pedophiles (candy men) work; (b) perfect description of the "candy" (lies) with which the WTS has fed the unsuspecting ones. Thanks for posting it in its entirety, SEQ!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:13:48
Comments
Sheila and Christopher Madonia 807 NE 67th Place Gladstone, MO 64118 This is my letter I sent to Bill to present in his defense --- THANKS SHeila & Christopher! I thought we could not write letters if we were not currently active JWs. I wish I had realized this. I didn't write a letter because I didn't think it would count since I no longer go to the KHall. What do you think Sheila? (I guess it's a moot point now, but I'm curious). Thanks/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:14:16
Comments
BLM wrote: "Since you've chosen the name JW DEFENDER, you are now a DEFENDER of the JW children too! Right?!" -- GOOD ONE, BLM!!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:17:15
Comments
" Proud to be a JW" asked "What would you say to me if I showed up to one of your rallies? Would you invite me to speak?" I don't see why not. Why not go to the March on 9/27 in NY and find out? The point is not whether an abused person is/was/stays a JW or not, the ISSUE, as all current JWs do not seem to let SINK IN, IS THE WTS POLICY REGARDING THE MOLESTERS, THE WTS' COVERING UP OF THE MOLESTERS, THE WTS' ABUSE OF THE VICTIMS THEMSELVES, THE WTS' DF'ING OF THE VICTIMS & THEIR ADVOCATES, THE WTS' DENIAL OF THE ISSUES, THE WTS TELLING ELDERS TO CALL LEGAL RATHER THAN GO STRAIGHT TO POLICE, THE WTS ENCOURAGING THE JWS TO SUPPORT THE PEDOPHILES IN THE TRIALS, etc. etc. etc. THESE ARE THE POINTS. Read JB/Elder's post, or Buster's posts, or all the past posts asking about the scriptures used to "do nothing" about the molesters (if the WT wants to use Mat. 18:16, then why don't they use verse 17, etc.?) The fact that you, personally, are doing so well is a fine thing, and we are happy for you. But how can you sit idly by and condone the behavior of your "spiritual" leaders? If you, as an abuse suvivor, knows firsthand the damage it did to your psyche, then I would think you would be FIRST IN LINE to assist the abuse survivors who did not fare as well as you, and you would be writing letters to the society asking they COME CLEAN, APOLOGIZE, ACT LIKE MEN INSTEAD OF MICE, QUIT DENYING/COVERING UP, CHANGE THEIR POLICY, etc. etc. And, Since you live in such a nice home, have you signed up for the "Friends of the Lambs" network (see "HELP SILENT LAMBS" button on the home page for complete details). As for "JW Detractors," I swear. Here's another area where current JWs keep MISSING THE OBVIOUS: It is YOUR OWN GB WHO ARE THE DETRACTORS. THEY SET THE PATTERN, THEY MADE THE "RULES," THEY ARE THE ONES WHO DENIED & COVERERED UP, THEY ARE THE ONES WHO TELL ALL OF YOU WHAT TO DO (from the top down). THEY ARE THE NEGATIVE & INSENSITIVE ONES WHO HUSHED UP THE VICTIMS (of course rather than acting like MEN and owning up to their mistakes, they continue to polish it over for the outside world via the PR Dept. and they are experts at providing the "fluff food" for the JWs to swallow, hook/line/sinker). Keep reading here and elsewhere. You'll get the REAL PICTURE sooner or later. Once you know the WHOLE STORY about the WTS, then please come back in six months or so, give it time to digest, because it WILL BE PAINFUL. It's something each person has to learn on their own, and it won't happen until you can allow yourself to SEE IT. --- There, now, nobody called you a moron or zombie, etc. Happy? This wasn't so bad was it? Peace/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:22:01
Comments
I disagree this site has change "so much." When I first found Silent Lambs last Fall (around October or November), there were gobs and gobs of angry posts, and I was also upset by the negativity, since I was still in WT-Dreamland. So I continued to defend the JWs for months thereafter. The point is: There were upset/angry posts HERE ON THIS SITE THEN ALSO. So I don't see why everybody thinks it has changed so much. --- Since the Dateline airing, I finally allowed myself to open up more to what the xJWs were saying by reading tons of more WTS DETAILS (their OWN literature, quotes, their own "behind the scenes" ways of dealing with things, their witch-hunts, UN, all the CHANGES re: blood, military, generation, etc. etc. The changes in the blood policy really killed me!) So now you could say I am an anti-WTS/GB also (not necessarily anti-individual JWs). Because I have now READ ENOUGH to KNOW the WTS I thought I "loved blindly and loyally" is NOT WHAT IT APPEARS TO BE. And then the Panorama show, and then how they DF Barbara and Joe Anderson and Bill Bowen, more covering up rather than ACTING LIKE MEN, SHOWING HUMILITY, APOLOGIZING FOR THEIR ERROR, and CHANGING. But No, they just dig their heels in deeper and deeper, and like COWARDS hide behind their phoney-baloney PR Dept. and lawyers. It REALLY IS SICKENING and enough to make anybody upset. So again, I disagree this site has changed that much, at least from Oct./Nov/ '01 until now (maybe it WAS different BEFORE that time). The point of this site is NOT ONLY FOR LAMB SUPPORT, BUT TO ALSO BRING ABOUT CHANGE CHANGE CHANGE IN WTS POLICY. So if people are ticked off about it, who can blame them? Also, imho, whether the posts sound too upsetting or not DEPENDS ALOT ON WHAT MOOD WE OURSELVES ARE IN when we read them. Some days the "harsh reality" of it all is too much to bear, and it IS best to take a breather from it all. Other days we feel stronger and can stand up and fight. Nobody can feel strong all the time. War IS ugly. But who started the war? THE MEN WHO WOULD RATHER LIE THAN CHANGE, that's who. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:27:17
Comments
WELL SAID, RICH, & WELCOME: "the majority of JWs seem to be on what i can only describe as 'auto pilot'. (THAT'S FOR SURE, AND I USED TO BE EXACTLY THE SAME, SO I CAN SPEAK FROM EXPERIENCE) ... well the problem of covering up abuse isnt just about '2 witnesses' etc, its about the whole attitude thats developed by the FDS through all their dogma (RIGHT ON, RICH! THAT IS SO EXACTLY THE POINT THE JW Defenders REFUSE TO SEE) ... i have a bible trained conscience not a FDS trained conscience (PERFECT DESCRIPTION!) ... i was disgusted by that GB member towards the end of the Panorama program. to me he just summed up their intire attitude by what he said. (SO TRUE MY FRIEND, SO TRUE... WHY DIDN'T HE AT LEAST SAY SOMETHING LOVING, LIKE HE WAS SORRY FOR ANY PAIN OR SUFFERING, OR SOMETHING!!! HE COULD HAVE SAID SOMETHING TO SHOW COMPASSION. BUT NO, BECAUSE THEY THINK THEY ARE BETTER THAN EVERYBODY ELSE; THEY THINK JEHOVAH IS NOT WATCHING). /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:31:33
Comments
RMK wrote: "I tell you the truth CJ. I saw and heard many like you in so called Christian Congregations of Jehovah's witness. You are very polished with your words but it is just the same. You are not truthful. You know what I mean? RMK" ----- Hi RMK: CJ may not know what you mean yet, but finally I DO, LOUD & CLEAR. I was so good at speaking that same "purely false language." /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:32:52
Comments
BLM wrote: "Better to stop the cart before it goes over the mountain than trying to pull it back up after!" -- Hey BLM: I love your colorful analogies! You've been working hard I see, lots of good posts you've made. Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:37:12
Comments
" JEHOVAH IS GOING TO TAKE CARE OF ALL THESE PERVERTS and its NOT gonna be a pretty site Your friend Penny" ----- Hi Penny! So glad to read your great comments! Right on Right on. And I'm glad you posted about the parent/perverts in the news. I heard it but forgot about it again until I saw your post. Somehow people keep FORGETTING that the pervs ARE EVERYWHERE right under their noses. This is another thing the JWs REFUSE TO RECOGNIZE. So what if they do NOT KNOW of one in their cong? He/she probably just hasn't gotten CAUGHT/EXPOSED YET. THEY ARE EVERYWHERE. Thanks Penny & love ya!/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:51:36
Comments
THIS EXPLAINS IT IN A NUTSHELL: "Carl A. Raschke, a professor of religious studies at the University of Denver who has written about the Jehovah's Witnesses, said the group was no different from many other insular religions that aspire to theological and moral purity. --- "Groups that tend to be very tight-knit and in-grown historically have a higher incidence of sexual abuse and incest," Dr. Raschke said. "That's an ethnological fact. When a religion tries to be thoroughly holy or godly, it's not going to acknowledge that people aren't living up to the ideals of the faith." --- BINGO! NOW DOES EVERYONE FINALLY "GET IT"??? <http://www.nytimes.com/2002/08/11/national/11WITN.html> Ethnological: The science that analyzes and compares human cultures, as in social structure, language, religion, and technology; cultural anthropology.

Remote User:

Date:
10 Aug 2002
Time:
23:56:22
Comments
SLC, Bill needed substantion as to who and what caused "divisions" since we choose not to go because of them, I think that is a more powerful statement then those still attending. Bill wrote and thanked me for my letter, and he knows our standing and the reasons why. We wanted Bill to have the information he needed for his fight. If it helps great if it doesn't it sure felt good to get some of the pain out of my system. As far as the New York Times article if that isn't akin to stepping in poo and pretending it's not "your " shoe that's smelling I don't know what is LOL. What is so friggin hard about "doing the right thing", children should be protected why is that such a hard concept. They claim to love Jehovah but have no real love amongst themselves, it's sick and twisted. If they would only say "we've done this wrong, children are the main priority and we will from hence forth change they way we deal with this issue." But then they would have to be of honest heart to change now wouldn't they. Sheila

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
00:59:31
Comments
I just caught up on today's posts and my jaw is still on my desk. I cannot believe the post that I just read from an active Witness. Normally I feel deferential toward Bonnielyn, but you actually wrote: "I would never want to sway someone to change how they spiritually believe." Didn't that strike anyone else? - a JW that respects others' spitituality and personal decisions - and wouldn't try to change them. If I got the sense correctly, I think award for being closest to a crossroad. I'm not deriding you, I'm just stunned. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
01:18:29
Comments
From the Dead Horse Whipping department: Just one more comment to CJ - the Elder. A person would need to be under strict control to have the audacity to put themselves forward as a sprirtual leader (I think you may prefer Shepherd) and still be able to write - seemingly with a straight face, stuff like, "their right to take the matter to police we would not discourage." No positive let's get you some help? But you wouldn't stand in the way of their actually getting actual help from someone that could actually help them. Real big of you CJ - that is quite a load spiritual leadership you got goin' there slick. Here's another gem, "if the accused does not admit guilt we can do nothing in a judicial way" Pair that with, "our hands would be tied," and you have the recital from a man that has been so indoctrinated that he would cite Society directives instead of deciding that he would help. Yup, you got the GB marching orders straight. I just hope beyond all hope that some poor, innocent 12-year-old victim finds someone else to ask for help and guidance. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
01:34:14
Comments
slc WHAMO an other jw defender out for the 10 count . rmk and WHAMO your words are not truthful with that prepared wt propaganda ploy another jwd out for the 10 count it,s amazing with a little training how little david can knock out the giant{WT} and the silent lambs are on the front page of the west bumble pup news. WHAMO its the NEW YORK TIMES> and WHAMO the giant out for the 10 count . holy cow did you see that the giant chasted the lamb throwing shunning, disfellowship,and the ever dreaded eternal death sentence.but then the lamb roared and the giant colasped from the weigtht of the yolk around it,s neck . WHAMO!!!!!!john

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
02:41:52
Comments
Bust 'em good, Buster!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
03:03:50
Comments
to slc when my father joined the wt in 72 i was 12 even at that age i saw right through the wt. i,m not glorifingthe catholics but i did learn something about god in 5 yrs of school there. no matter how many times the nuns wacked me with a stick for not doing my homework maybe they were right my spelling might be better. they never told me if i don,t do my homework or go to church god was going to destroy me. i never was a jw and i never promoted wt teachings.but i remember about 75 and all the creators promise for the generation of 1914 ie any awake before nov. 1995 pg 4 now let me ask what creator is the awake talking about we know it can,t be the creator in the bible even the nwt. because GOD CAN NOT LIE !!!! so you ask what creator can it be ???lets open our minds and see any reasonable person as the truth book says will look at all the evidents and then make an informed decision. i know your asking what about the sheeps and the goats well you have to go back to thoses great flashes of light judge rutherford got from the angels at the 1935 convention in st. louis on how the seprating working started then now research the hundreds of times the wt called this bible truth until nov. 1995 now since the creator of the bible cannot lie do i have any arguments with that ???if you believe in jesus i don,t think so . so who can be the creator of such teachings??? i won,t give the answer but i,ll give a clue W___H_O__R if you can figure this one out you can win more alot more than pat sajack gives away. freedom in christ to all. john

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
06:01:35
Comments
If the following watchtower policy is true There are certainly no sanctions against any congregation member who reports an allegation of child abuse to the authorities.
" http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=020714.htm
Why was Bill Bowen disfellowshipped? bas www.antijehovahswitness.com

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
08:01:42
Comments
To John. thanks for your comment. the WT cant bring me back to something i've never been to! i keep an open mind on anything that we cant be sure about in the scriptures, even if the WT says 'it means this'. other than those things i believe that JWs as a people do hold the truth of the bible. ***** i said that i only consider myself as part of my congregation and not part of the society. well i believe that to be the best option because i know Jehovahs spirit operates in congs such as mine. we used to have a woman come to our meetings who was involved in spiritism. she was clairvoyant and so could see spirits outside the KH. these spirits would end up going into peoples cars and follow bros and sis home. but never once would they come into the KH. i think that just goes to prove my point. to suggest that the WT has demonic powers would cause all congs not to have the blessing of God's spirit. you may well know more about the WT than I, but as i say im not part of them. true there may well be good christians out there in other churches, and christ will judge them as he will us. i will end by saying that there will be many JWs who will not see Gods kingdom and there will be those unfairly treated by the society who have been stumbled and forced to leave who will be saved. i wont judge anyone who believes in Christ, even if their attitude stinks. its not right for me or anyone including you John to do that. if you suggest that bad attitudes arent found in other churches, then that would be a naive view. you cant attack JWs just because of who they are. if you call yourself a christian then you should show love to those who believe in Christ even if you dont agree with their attitude. ****** if the WT has badly sinned against God, well he will punish them very severely and he will allow those who have worshiped in spirit and truth to escape. those who have been wronged will see vindication from Jehovah. i hope that all those who have been abused and suffered for righteousness will keep Jehovah and Christ in their lives, because vengeance belongs to Jehovah. if anyone wants to email then send emails to: thereflex84@hotmail.com. Rich

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
09:12:13
Comments
Hi, this is a very good and informative site. Do you have an e-mail newsletter? If not, please start one up. I can help if you would be interested. Thanks. Tip tippyk9@yahoo.com

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
09:36:45
Comments
a prayer for bill bowen i think is in order lets pray the holy sprit helps him to let the commitee see the light today. and if not let the holy sprit help expose the judicial committee for the fools who do not except reproof that the wt is . prov.1 my money on bill i can just see the elders foaming at the mouth as they get a lesson in humility. i hope bill brings some millstones i have a feeling there will be some elders there walking out of the hotel wearing one. i think i,ll go to the quarry today and cut out somemore millstones for all the wt defenders who come here and kick mr. bowen and the lambs. order yours today . freedom in christ to all .john

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:08:08
Comments
Jehovah God is now exposing the WTS for what it really is. They should be ashamed and embarssed and repentant before God.....but i guess what they're really worried about is their MONEY.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:19:46
Comments
Buster, I am not to sure what your post meant regarding my comment 'not wanting to sway anyone's spiritual beliefs. If I understood it correctly you are thinking that I am a JW, I'm not. I was raised to believe their 'truth' I have felt for years that I failed them and by doing that failed HIM. What I have found regarding the UN, new blood policies, the stocks that the org has in a company that has a contract with the Navy, and most importantly the public statements admitting to sending 'known' pedophiles to the doors of unsuspecting children, all of these and the lamb's case have allowed me to acknowledge that it was NOT I that failed them, but them that failed HIM! My comment was directed to the spirit of someone. I will always hope and have faith that HE is in everyone, who truly believes and loves HIM, so no I would never want to sways someone' SPITITUAL beliefs, what they have been taught, what their mind is telling their spirit, well that's another matter altogether, If their minds see that their what their SPIRITS know, then… I am also not a teacher, if I'm not mistaken the bible specifically says to be careful when teaching the word, it will go harder on those that do.I do not need it anymore harder than it already is! So, either I'm confuseed :-P by your post or visa-versa With the spirit of LOVE bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:48:54
Comments
help I'm a baptised witness who has a child who was abused by a teacher at his school. I'm in turmoil now as I cant't believe Jehovah would allow this to happen with his organisation. But whose who I have spoken tell me your in the wrong. I can't believe this. I need to talk to someone who understands what I feel.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:55:02
Comments
rich thanks for the reply i,m going out for the day .so i don,t have the time now to answer but you show alot of wt. indoctination. and thats were your eternal life is in jepordy. john

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
10:59:17
Comments
Dear HELP!!! If you haven't done so call the police! Call a doctor!!!! Do not let no one tell you that you are at fault, this is now the time to help your child!!! Please email me fursie@sbcglobal.net send me your phone number and I will call you immediately, I can't help much more than that, you may be able to find Bills phone number on here too, or email him! But first Call the police and Doctor, I would think that Doctor first!!!! I am so very sorry for what you are going through right now!!! All of us are here for you. Email me for personal talk!!! Please!!!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:03:01
Comments
Dear HELP!!!! HERE ARE SOME LINKS AND SOME ASSISTANCE TO, LOOK INTO THIS; If your child is Molested what is the first thing you should do? http://www.discribe.ca/childfind/educate/jic/victim.hte http://www.ncvc.org/infolink/main.htm
http://www.ci.san-carlos.ca.us/police/childsab.html

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:12:03
Comments
Dear HELP!!!! I HAVE COPIED YOUR POST AND SENT IT TO MR. BOWEN TOO, If he gets it I am sure he will have approved of my copying the links he has provided on this site and my advice to go to the police if you have not done so already, and the Doctors!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:14:48
Comments
" As Jehovah's people, we don't need to question things that are our brains can't begin to comprehend." *********** How's THAT for some indoctrinated WTS Propaganda? NEED I SAY MORE???? (That quote is from *Amanda* 8/11/02 6:01 AM, Message 27 in Discussion <JustJWs@groups.msn.com>)

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:20:46
Comments
Dear Help! Re-reading your post has made me confused, I had thought the abuse has happened recently may not, by the sounds of it, it might be the confusion regarding the WT policies and the lamb site that you need help with. I am sorry if I got the wrong impression by your cry for HELP I reacted to that. I hope that your child is okay and if this happened awhile ago and it's the issue's here and with the policy that you need help with then I'm sorry for my jumping the gun so to speak! I am still here and we are all here, if you want, you can still email me. and please let us know that your child is okay! or as okay as he/she can be after an abuse! love, me

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:28:01
Comments
Regarding - How's THAT for some indoctrinated WTS Propaganda - Oh how that has hit home! Here I am, telling myself still that the things that I don't understand in the word are not for me to question! I will feel blessed though, that I do not depend on another to explain them to me - I just figure that HE has not given me the understanding as of yet and with faith HE will in HIS time! Am I just to hard headed, not to depend of ANYONE else but HIM to lead me with understanding? Is that not what the word itself says? With faith one CAN move a mountain! Well, how about a Tower too!!! :-) me

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:38:19
Comments
Congratulations to Bill & Barbara and the rest of the team at Silentlambs. NY Times story is great!!! Keep pushing WTBS to tell the truth to the press to the public and most of all the Congregations.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
11:55:30
Comments
Dear TIP/tippyk9@yahoo.com: Glad you find this site helpful. There is no official "newsletter," but you can sign up for the email list, to be sent any info as it is dispersed by Silent Lambs. To get on the email list, please go to the HOME PAGE, SEE the two rows of "BLUE BARS" across the TOP of the Home Page, and click on the one that says "ADD ME TO EMAIL." That will open up a blank email in your email program addressed to: Editor@silentlambs.org ** And that is how you get on the Silent Lambs Email List. ***** As far as your generous offer to assist in producing a "newsletter," I would suggest that you contact DIRECTLY the owner of the Silent Lambs website, Mr. Bill Bowen, with your offer, since I'm sure all offers of assistance are appreciated. Please again go to the HOME PAGE, and NOW PLEASE SEE the "BLUE BARS" that run along the LEFT COLUMN of the HOME PAGE. The second one down says, "HELP SILENT LAMBS" which provides specific ways you can help, and/or it tells you how to contact the site owner to offer whatever assistance you can, i.e., write to: Assistance@SilentLambs.org ** Thanks again!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:18:06
Comments
Dateline, Panorama, and now the New York Times article!!! I believe its high time we recognize something. Recognize the Hand of God being involved. It is clear, Jehovah God is USING Bill Bowens & Company as His instruments of destruction! Who would doubt that now, I ask? God is using Bill Bowens, the Anderson family and others just like Jehovah God used "Gideon & 300 men" to rout 135,000 midianites-amalekites-easterner invaders to Israel. A seemingly impossible feat for a small band of brave souls. (Judges 7:12; 8:10) But Jehovah gave the victory, which was foretold in a "dream" and told to Gideon. The "dream" indicated Jehovah had "given the entire camp" of the enemy into the hands of "Gideon" and his small band of 300 men! Gideon understood the "dream" and "worshiped" God after hearing it. Because he knew then he truly had God's full backing for the defeat of this enemy of such larger proportions. (Judges 7:12-15)********So, what do we learn from this? The WTS is much larger and more powerful than any one person. It would seem impossible, looking back a year ago, that the things we are seeing, are a reality now. I'm sure when Bill started, it couldn't have imagined just how things were going to turn out. But, he knew he had to stand for "right", and somehow trust in Jehovah that things would work out. And they have! So what do we learn from all of this? Doesn't true victory come from Jehovah!********From what we are seeing, learning, Bill Bowens & company are relying upon Jehovah completely and God is blessing their efforts. They are succeeding because they recognize that they are just like the warrior "Gideon and his 300 men" in this battle against the Governing Body. (Judges 7:1-7)They know, it is Jehovah that has granted success. No, Jehovah is not using big fancy Circuit Overseers and District Overseers, Missionaries and Bethel "heavies" (who continue "hide behind the scenes", but who are all proven by now, yellow-belly COWARDS in reality as everyone can see). Not but Jehovah is using the "lowly one", the humble ones. Jehovah is using a very small humble group of brave, alert men & women to accomplish this great "salvation". Jehovah is "reproving" the worldwide organization of JWs of wrongdoing, Governing Body and all, using only a few good men and women. And rightly, God does this so that we, all Jehovah's Witnesses, would have to know that it is He (God Almighty) that is behind all of this. And it is He that has gained the victory using His Almighty Power against the "evil axis of Brooklyn Bethel". God is showing us all, that He does not condone the Governing Body's works of evil. He is showing that any wickedness done in His Name done by the WTS, even if it is "concealed", will during a time of judgment be fully exposed! (Luke 8:17; 1 Timothy 5:24) **********So then, the battle is "Jehovah's and Gideon's". Now we must ask, who will be brave enough to JOIN the "silentlambs" now, and be on "Jehovah's side" of the issue? Like Moses asked, "WHO IS ON JEHOVAH'S SIDE -- TO ME!" (Exodus 32:26; Judges 7:16-18)******Finally, for jgibson@hamburg.heartland.net, who asked, "Where shall we go", AFTER we leave the WTS? The answer: Jesus promised his disciples, "where there are at least two or more gathered", he would be in their midst. So a congregation is a group of people, 2 or more, meeting together to "incite to love and fine works". And it only takes two people to do this. So we are already a "congregation" of Jehovah's worshipers. (Matt. 18:20; Hebrews 10:24, 25) We are those who wish to "flee away from idolatry" of the WTS. We continue to meet here, at "silentlambs", in the interest of protecting innocent children. We meet right here, where we can freely "speak truth to one another" as God wants. Jehovah has provided you with many faithful brothers, RIGHT HERE. So then, you have all that you need. You do not need to go back to wickedness at the kingdom halls. You are where you need to be right now. (Zech. 8:16; 1 Cor. 10:14)

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:44:15
Comments
BAS www.antijehovahswitness.com asked: "If the following watchtower policy is true: 'There are certainly no sanctions against any congregation member who reports an allegation of child abuse to the authorities'"... ----- Dear Bas: "THEREFORE, ALL THE THINGS THEY TELL YOU, DO AND OBSERVE, BUT DO NOT DO ACCORDING TO THEIR DEEDS, FOR THEY SAY BUT DO NOT PERFORM." (Mt. 23:3) ----- Remember, what you quote comes from the WTS' PUBLIC RELATIONS DEPT., and as it says right on that page, it is for the sole BENEFIT OF THE PUBLIC (i.e., to quote the site: "[JWs] have made sure the PUBLIC has access to [this information]..." ----- Their PR Statement also is for the purpose of "schmoozing" the JWs themselves. ----- HOWEVER, what does JESUS think about PUBLIC RELATIONS statements by his so-called "earthly organization"? He says, "TAKE GOOD CARE NOT TO PRACTICE YOUR RIGHTEOUSNESS IN FRONT OF MEN IN ORDER TO BE OBSERVED BY THEM; OTHERWISE YOU WILL HAVE NO REWARD WITH YOUR FATHER WHO IS IN THE HEAVENS." (Mt. 6:1) ----- What you refer to was a last minute PR "SAVE FACE" POLICY put out AFTER the WTS' hide was already in a sling. It did NOT come about as a PRO-ACTIVE MEASURE out of the goodness of their hearts, but AFTER THE FACT, as DAMAGE CONTROL, once they realized they were being EXPOSED for the hypocrites that they are. [As an "anti JW" I would think you would already know these things. True, it takes a lot of effort to keep up with the slick maneuverings of a "greased pig." The TIMELINE of the WTS' so-called Child Advocate Policies such as this one, has been exposed all along via this site, the emails sent from this site, and the other long-ago- established sites that keep watch on every move of the WTS. Yes, it would take a lot of reading to go back and play catch up, but it can be done.] "Truth Is Stranger Than Fiction." /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
12:45:57
Comments
BAS www.antijehovahswitness.com asked: Why was B. Bowen DF'd? ----- Answer: The "charge" was "causing divisions in the congregation." And Praise Jah for that! Finally, THE TRUTH OF ABUSE IS OUT FOR ALL TO SEE, and we get to see WHO REALLY IS ON THE SIDE OF THE TRUTH! And it isn't the WTS and their Legal Machine, who went into High Gear to get rid of the ones doing the EXPOSING (without eyewitnesses, without "defense" witnesses being allowed to appear, no fair hearing, etc. etc.) Why not get yourself on the Silent Lambs Email? The info about that is in a post above. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:05:52
Comments
Dear Help: I am so sorry to hear about your child. Having the trust of an "authority figure" such as a teacher or others, cross those boundaries of trust in such an abhorrent way, is heartwrenching and shattering. Was the teacher prosecuted for his/her crime against yoru child? ----- As for this site, none of us could believe it at first either (yes, we BELIEVED the JW abuse victims, but our minds had trouble grasping, as you state, that Jehovah and/or His "Org" would allow this to happen). Well, other atrocities have happened "in the name of Jehovah" across the milleniums so, once that fact is called to mind, then we can move forward and FACE THE REALITIES of this. First, you need to RESIST GOING INTO DENIAL/TAKE OFF THE BLINDERS that JWs/WTS are "perfect"; then PRAY FOR STRENGTH to Face The Facts; then READ ALL YOU CAN, here and elsewhere. All of us cried bitterly when we first learned these truths about how "Jehovah's ORG" has pedophiles too, and how Jehovah's ORG has handled/is handling these things. It takes TIME to digest it, and it will not be easy, but it must be done lest people keep their heads in the sand (of silence) and allow abuse to continue. I don't know what area you are in, but if you want to talk on the phone, please see the HOME PAGE: HOTLINE: "For victims of child abuse who need further assistance [OR] for anyone to call to present material to establish hard evidence of Watchtower Abuse [OR] to provide information about where to go to get help. 1-877-WTABUSE, 1-877-982-2873." If you are in my area, Silent Lambs has my phone number and you can get it from them. We've all been where you are emotionally/religiously. If you are not in my area, SilentLambs has a network of friends in other areas, and I am sure either they will help you and/or they will direct you to someone in your area whom you could talk to personally. Hang in there! Talking/writing/ reading DOES help tremendously! So please come back and tell us if you got the help you are needing, and if/when you are feeling better. Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:22:39
Comments
The Jehovah's Witness organization is dominated by sexist, small minded, ill-educated men. Young people, especially woman, are extremely vulnerable to the emotional, spiritual, and physical abuses that are inflicted and covered up "in the name of Jehovah". Lesa McLaughlin Chihak LChihak@aol.com

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:26:28
Comments
***********THE MOLE*********** I will say this to those who need an answer, to remove the doubt. Some will likely condemn certain information as an airing of our dirty linen before the public. Strangely, these same ones generally do not object to the airing of the dirtly linen of other religions and may, in fact, take great interest in it, even publicize it widely. But they feel that what happens within their own religious organization should not be discussed outside its confines. The hard fact is, among the Jw organization today there is simply no possiblity for such discussion to take place. Anyone attempting to do so would be viewed as showisng a rebellious spirit and would only result in further action in removal. Since the information cannot be discussed within, and if it is not to be discussed outside the structure, that means that it must be left undiscussed, ignored. Some of course, would like it to remain that way but to many of us are now whispering and others such as myself are posing questions that could only lead to more questions. If the Organization can leave this matter without a response, so they will reap the rewards from many of us who have serouis doubts now. No one today has a divine commission as a prophet or an apostle, but we can follow thier example and do what is right, as Ray Franz and Bill Bowens is doing. Alerting people to the realities and aid them to arrive at the right conclusions. "I can say this, that Ray Franz and now Bill has made me ponder more seriously than ever the meaning of major portions and teachings of Christ............***The MOLE****

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:29:15
Comments
Rich: Thank you, thank you, thank you. So your Kingdom Hall parking lot is infested with demons? They follow people home in their cars do they? Hang out by the door, maybe even smoking evil spirit-world cigarettes while waiting to pick out someone they feel like haunting for the rest of the day? - because they can't come in, of course not. Do they stay with these hauntees until they can hitch a ride back to the Hall for the next meeting? Thank you for posting to this site and making the Silent Lambs point. Thank you for firing off the 'vengence is mine' snippet. Thank you for showing how you use it to justify standing by while a child is abused, while someone that tries to help is chastised right out of the organization. Thank you for being so open that you would let eveyone see that you are a certifiable, superstitious nut. Thank you for the entertainment. It would be a bit more enjoyable if the stakes weren't so high. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:31:58
Comments
CONGRATULATIONS!!!!! to SILENT LAMBS.ORG, to SILENT LAMBS INDIVIDUALLY, to HEIDI MEYER & AMBER LONG!!, to BILL BOWEN & FAMILY, to BARBARA & JOE ANDERSON, to ALL THE OTHER ADVOCATES FOR SILENT LAMBS! and to ALL THE OTHER LAMBS INVOLVED IN LAWSUITS (past/present/future) against their perpetrators/the WTS/their former congs. --- THE NEW YOUR TIMES ARTICLE WAS ASTOUNDING!!! JEHOVAH KNOWS HOW TO MAKE GREAT USE OF "Satan's [so-called] Tool" [THE MEDIA] FOR HIS OWN DIVINE PURPOSES!!! APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE! APPLAUSE! PRAISE JAH IN THE HEIGHTS ABOVE! GOD BLESS THE LAMBS and THE NEW YORK TIMES!!! --- <SMILING WIDE> /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:37:12
Comments
HOW MANY? HOW MANY? "ONLY A FEW," YOU SAY? THINK AGAIN: "'silentlambs' has collected reports from more than 5,000 Witnesses contending that the church mishandled child sexual abuse." ----- Yeah, SURE, ONLY A FEW + PLUS + 4,900 !!!!! [The New York Times, 8/11/02] ----- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:40:22
Comments
" The church says the number [23,000] is 'considerably lower,' but will not say what it is." ----- WELL, WHY NOT? IF IT IS SO MUCH LOWER, WHY NOT SHARE THAT PIECE OF "GOOD NEWS"? Would we not be HAPPY to hear the "considerably lower" number? ----- [The New York Times 8/11/02] ----- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:46:20
Comments
Bonnielyn: Looks like I didn't read your post carefully enough. I inferred your statement 'never left the truth' to imply that your were still in. I missed that you never were in. It did seem a bit out of character - Confused (Buster)

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:50:22
Comments
PEAK INTO THE MIND OF A PEDOPHILE and THE MIND OF HIS LUKEWARM "OSTRICH-LIKE" SUPPORTERS: "The man she was accusing INSISTED that Ms. Meyer had MISINTERPRETED WHAT HAPPENED. The elders AGREED." [The New York Times 8/11/02] ----- "LET THE ONE WHO HAS AN EAR HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS TO THE CONGREGATIONS: I KNOW YOUR DEEDS, THAT YOU ARE NEITHER COLD NOR HOT. I WISH YOU WERE COLD OR ELSE HOT. SO, BECAUSE YOU ARE LUKEWARM AND NEITHER HOT NOR COLD, I AM GOING TO VOMIT YOU OUT OF MY MOUTH." [Revelation 3:13,15,16] ----- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
13:51:06
Comments
That should have read: PEEK...

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
14:07:13
Comments
At 3pm/EST, The NY Times article: "Ousted Members Contend Jehovah's Witnesses' Abuse Policy Hides Offenses" is NUMBER SIX (6) of the TOP 25 MOST E-MAILED ARTICLES! HURRAY!!! /SLC http://www.nytimes.com/gst/pop_top.html

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
14:29:59
Comments
LOL Buster! I have never lost THE FAITH my faith has alway been towards HIM! And that I will never lose! If you read my story of just a glimpse of my abuse you will have read that when I was 8 years old, I had a step-father that I now believe HE was using to save me.. My step-father drilled two things into my brain, 6x9=54 and 1 John 4:8 which reads, he that does not know love, does not know GOD, for GOD is LOVE! As I took the scripture, it was telling me since I never felt love, I now knew where to find it!!! So I opened up the WORD and I hung on for dear life,everything I read, being so young I truly beleave that HE guided me with love and faith, to understand what HE wanted me to understand. HIS word saved my life for I would have not survived without it!!! So, no I have never lost my faith, my faith is in HIM!!!! sorry you were confused, I hope that this has cleared all up, and mayhap given others a testimony of HIS true self!!! with the spirit of LOVE, bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
14:48:45
Comments
I would jusst like to say that I read about your story on August 11,2002,in the Bakersfield Califonian,as I live in Bakersfield,I saw the story on Dateline,a few weeks ago and everything that the report was saying about the witness' were so true. At one time I was in this organization, and my husband sexually molestated my two young daughters from a pervious marriage,but I did not find out about this until years later when we separated and moved away from this violent man whos also abused me while at the same time we all professed to be witness,attending the kingdom hall and going door to door and putting on the uprightouness life of the witness life,the only reason that I finally found out about this the abuse, was because my 2 daughters thought that there was a chance that we might get back together with this man, this matter of abuse was brought before the committee,I was in total shock,as I could not believe he would do this as I didnt feel this could happen in Jehoavh's congreation!!!!!And the Watchtower and Awake magazines had published so many stories about this,and this man that I was married to, sat and held discussions as a family unit about this while the whole time he was doing the act with my daughters. The brothers became in voled in the case and talked with each of us,I personal asked if I should mention this to the police and I wanted him throw in jail and something to be done about this,and all the brothers told me was that they would handle it and pray about it and bring it to the attention of the elders in his congreagation,which was in Sequim,Wa,we were and still are living in Bakersfield,Ca at the time.....The last thing that I ever heard that happen to him was that he was supended from answering at the meetings for 6 mos. unbelievable,still able to go door to door just not answering at the meetings. The Elders said that since it had happen (the abuse) so long ago that it was rally to late to don anything further,my 2 daughters have had a very hard and degrating life sincce this has all been brought out,I'm can't say that their lieves have change because of this or maybe this was actually the course of their lives anyway,even my life was much harder ater learning this,I had really felt that i hadn't bee there for my children and a few years ago my oldest daughter has broken all contact with me and has told me that I was never there for her. Needless to day we are not winess any longer,I felt that they very much so let me down in ways that I can't even bear to think about............ Sincerely Linda Slaughter Bakersfield,Ca 661-703-2015

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
14:51:51
Comments
Regarding the comments from Buster: Rich: Thank you, thank you, thank you. So your Kingdom Hall parking lot is infested with demons? They follow people home in their cars do they? Hang out by the door, maybe even smoking evil spirit-world cigarettes while waiting to pick out someone they feel like haunting for the rest of the day? - because they can't come in, of course not. Do they stay with these hauntees until they can hitch a ride back to the Hall for the next meeting? OH MY GOODNESS! THIS IS ALL I CAN SAY! BUSTER YOU ARE WAY TO INSIGHTFUL AND WAY TO FUNNY! Thanks for the laughs! I sure did need it! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
15:00:07
Comments
PLEASE WRITE & SAY THANK YOU to LAURIE GOODSTEIN (reporter) and THE NEW YORK TIMES!!! The reporter, Ms. Goodstein, does not have a direct email address (it's their prerogative if they do or not, per the website, and I already looked, and she doesn't). So here is a LIST of other email addresses you can use one or ALL of them. Get those pecking fingers ready! Thanks/SLC ***** Since the article was published ON THE WEB, write to: <web-editor@nytimes.com> ***** and/or Bernard Gwertzman, Editor/The New York Times on the Web at: <begwer@nytimes.com> ***** and/or Meredith Artley, Associate Editor/The New York Times on the Web at: <meredith@nytimes.com>. ***** Since the article was published in HARD COPY ALSO, you can write to: Letters to the Editor at: <letters@nytimes.com> ***** and/or the National News Dept. at: <national@nytimes.com> (since the article appeared in the NATIONAL Section). ***** You can also write to the NY Times Managing Editor here: <managing-editor@nytimes.com> ***** and/or the NY Times Executive Editor here: <executive-editor@nytimes.com>. ***** For comments about News Coverage Only, write to: <nytnews@nytimes.com> ***** Last but not least, you can write to: Arthur Sulzberger Jr., Chairman & Publisher of The NY Times @ <publisher@nytimes.com>. ***** And/or write to Janet L. Robinson, President & General Manager of The NY Times @ <president@nytimes.com>.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
15:03:27
Comments
IF YOU MISSED GETTING A HARD COPY OF TODAY'S NEW YORK TIMES, and want one to keep, here's their info re: how to obtain back issues. /SLC ****** BACK COPIES/FRONT PAGE REPRODUCTIONS/ REPRINTS/ PHOTOGRAPHSFor BACK COPIES, call 1-800-543-5380. For frameable reproductions of any page from The Times, 1851 to the present, call 1-866-219-1793 or visit http://nytimesagency.com For reprints of Times articles, call 1-800-767-3263. For copies of photographs that appear in The Times, call (212) 556-1243.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
15:05:37
Comments
Linda Slaughter, thank you for telling your story! I feel deeply for you, one day when your oldest has had a chance to mature I hope she will realize that you are not to blame, maybe you made some mistakes and are not perfect, but who hasn't and who is perfect! It's the evil in your ex that done this, and his blindness and denial of the evil learking within, if he was able to have used his mind, and heart, and seen that he held an evil, then he may have been able to exorcise it! And the blindness of the ones who deny there is a serious problem with pedophiles are also needing to use their minds and hearts so that they just may be able to exorcise and clean out their closets! I hope the very best for you, with the spirit of love, bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
15:05:37
Comments
To The Mole----Can you be specific as to what you mean by this statement?? Are you now changing everything you once believed in? I haven't read Ray Franz's book, not sure I want to! "The Truth" makes perfect sense, all the pieces of the puzzle fit! Are you now re-arranging the pieces? I don't agree with a few things but I sure won't abandon my whole belief system! What the GB is doing concerning the victims is dead wrong, that I can't excuse, nor would I EVER! But the overall "truths" haven't changed so as usual I'm stuck between a rock and a hard place with no way out! Someone in Texas "I can say this, that Ray Franz and now Bill has made me ponder more seriously than ever the meaning of major portions and teachings of Christ............***The MOLE****

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
15:06:16
Comments
Perhaps you are wondering "Just what kind of religion would protect pedophiles at the risk of the children in their midst?" My new book, AWAKENING OF A JEHOVAH'S WITNESS: ESCAPE FROM THE WATCHTOWER SOCIETY, answers this question. Diane Wilson www.dianewilson.net

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
15:08:00
Comments
I did read that the wt spokemen are stating that their policies regarding molesters are better than anyone else's, hmmmmmm, hey, wt guys! I have some rotton meat for sale, it may be rotton, BUT not as rotton as others!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
15:09:12
Comments
Shunning is a grudge. A hateful sign of the phariseptic plague that ends with indifference and division. "Those who hate their brother can not have true love for God." Their (GB) love/lust is for secular power and control.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
15:37:14
Comments
Seems Julius Caesar knew about "Mind Control" even way back then...

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
16:22:53
Comments
PRAYERS for Bill Bowen who should be in the middle of his Appeal Hearing right about now. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
16:27:34
Comments
Sheila, thanks for explaining about the letter. I just "assumed" BB wanted letters from active JWs. I was thinking letters from others would hold no value in the WTS' eyes as far as "causing divisions," etc. Wished now I had been thinking like you. I would have written a good, long letter. Thanks again. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
16:53:17
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
16:59:32
Comments
Bill Bowen is guilty of creating division in the Organization. Here are the divisions._______________ Those who care about the children/ Those who care about the Organizations image.
______________________ Good work Bill. You have the higher principles.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
18:04:40
Comments
It's not difficult to become a Jehovah's Witness. All one has to do is study the basics of the Bible, answer questions properly and with a demonstration of an attitude, appreciation and understanding of the information -- not just recite answers. This allows one to become a baptized minister among Jehovah's Witnesses. There have been cases of one or others being able to infiltrate JW's even to the higher ranks just to spy on them or to undermine the text in their pending publications, work and organization. It makes it easy for someone who is power-hungry, wants position, prestige and the ability to intimidate people to get into this organization and covertly work their evil. Personally, I don't know of ANY organization that doesn't try to keep their "problems" private. However, I do believe that the requirement of 2 or more witnesses is a misinterpretation of the scriptures in view of scriptures found in Leviticus, Deuteronomy and 1 Corinthians. In all these places, it is clear that fornicators must be thrown into the world immediately. Child molestation is fornication. There isn't any Biblical evidence that the congregation, Hebrew or Christian, has a responsibility to rehabilitate such ones. They are to be thrown out. Any rehabilitation that takes place takes place in "Satan's world", outside or away from God's people -- not within the congregation or among God's people. Having sex with a minor child has always been against the law. It seems that there is a distasteful word game being played in these matters in the use of the term "child abuse". Child abuse is having sex with a minor child. It is against the law and it, if reported, is punishable by law. The insult to the majority of people's sense of right and wrong that is seemingly being perpetrated by the stand the JW's are taking is outrageous. In the Bible, when something isn't right, one has the obligation to speak out so that that one or others do not share in the bloodguilt. A warning is being given. It seems to have been done in the right spirit and with the right intentions. The disfellowshipping of those who have tried to give that warning appears to be proof of an unrepentant heart -- a heart that has become hardhearted, stubborn and determined to continue in their same old course rather than review with an open mind and with clear scriptural guidelines to make appropriate changes in policy. That is very sad in the eyes of God for those who are pursuing such a course. The JW's own publications have pointed out that the 2 or 3 witnesses do not have to be Elders. They need to be persons familiar with the situation. Now they say there must be, at least, ONE witness. According to their publications, it should be someone familiar with the situation. It seems to me a witness or witnesses coming forward is essential. However, if no one can talk to anyone else, witnesses familiar with the situation (to my mind that would be someone familiar with the behavior of the person accused -- not familiar with someone else's abuse because there, usually, won't be witnesses in such cases). Unfortunately, a lot of times, child abuse cases have revealed that the mother (frequently it's the father abusing the girls) DID know of the abuse. She knew her husband was leaving their bed to go to another child's room BUT SHE WOULDN'T GO AND CATCH HIM IN THE ACT or SAY ANYTHING. This has resulted in serious difficulties for such children as they grew older. However, for ELDERS to know of such things going on in the congregation and keeping quiet about it doesn't save ANYONE'S FACE. For an organization to ADVISE SUCH is, in itself, abuse. It abuses everyone that is in association with congregations everywhere. What ever happened to an organization that was open, wonderful and loving? The stance of this organization is, or should be, an outrage for all 6+ million because, the vast majority of these people are honest, sincere, hard-working, straight-forward, likeable people. I imagine this is EXACTLY how the political and religious leaders in the time of Christ acted when they went against Jesus Christ. He was telling them they needed to change their ways to be acceptable to God. They got rid of him. This is a terrible insult and embarrassment to all the good people of Jehovah's Witnesses. What I would say is that I do not agree with what's going on IN THIS MATTER. Of course, I've ALWAYS let my say in matters be heard -- that's why I'm always on the "outs". However, the Bible tells me (and you) that you must speak out when you see something wrong. In fact, we're supposed to speak out before one takes a false step. Sometimes, when it's before the false step has been taken, it's difficult for a person to see that they're going to do wrong and won't listen. However, the false steps have been taken repeatedly in this matter and the ones taking them don't want to believe they're doing wrong, won't listen or make immediate changes to correct the situation. I'm glad I've been a "big mouth" because it protected my child -- no one wanted anything to do with us. Oh, my feelings have been hurt but now when I see a much bigger picture, I feel God, himself, has protected us from some serious wrong thinking going on among a lot of JW's today. There's no way I would give up on the organization as there's nowhere else to go for the truth about the God of the Bible. Also, my conscience is clean because I have spoken up when it was necessary. Matters were placed in the hands of those who should take proper care of them -- elders, circuit overseers and the headquarters, themselves. So, when this broke out, I felt as though my hands are clean in all matters that I feel should be straightened out. Moses and Solomon handled the disputes, problems and matters of the people so that there would be a just and fair resolution among the people. I wonder what they would think if they saw what was going on now among God's people. No, I won't lie to people about what's going on. I just hope those in charge will see their errors and make the appropriate changes. If they don't, Jehovah God, himself, will see to it that they are removed from their positions. You can be assured that God doesn't like what is going on. The Bible says so. When headquarters will not become involved with local issues, they give too much power to mere imperfect men. Under such conditions, even a good-hearted man could become power hungry and abuse his authority. Elders are not psychologists, doctors, policemen or mental health workers. Some, though, seem to think that being an Elder qualifies them as such. They misapply scriptures thinking, foolishly, that will "cure" a situation. They may be well-intended but they don't know what they're doing. In many cases, they exacerbate problems rather than help. Take a look at a lot of them. They have their own difficulties that they haven't been successful in handling. If they can't take care of their own problems in their families, how can they advise someone else and expect them to be successful. Their advice won't be good advice because it's not coming from someone who knows and knows that it works. Those disfellowshipped should be immediately reinstated and an LOUD AND CLEAR APOLOGY is demanded. Those at headquarters that believe the way they do need to READ MORE OF THE BIBLE in these matters. Perhaps, then, you'll see that you are narrow-minded in your opinions and those opinions are not supported by the entire Bible's context. What kind of SPIRITUALITY is that? It's not the kind that impresses me. Shame on you that you have let such matters become such a scandal rather then handling them aright in the first place! The information you dispense is good, now YOU HAVE TO READ IT so you'll know that you're going against your own teachings. How can you teach morality when you don't demonstrate just plain common sense in the matter of unlawful sex with a child, children or adults? You need to hand it over to someone that knows the difference between right and wrong. Personally, I don't want to wait on Jehovah for the necessary changes to take place. You should be MATURE ENOUGH, EDUCATED IN THE BIBLE ENOUGH, HUMBLE ENOUGH to know YOU ARE WRONG in this matter. You make me ashamed.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
18:45:31
Comments
To the JW-Someone who wrote about the Governing Body @ HQ: "Shame on you... You need to hand it over to someone that knows the difference between right and wrong. ... You should be MATURE ENOUGH, EDUCATED IN THE BIBLE ENOUGH, HUMBLE ENOUGH to know YOU ARE WRONG in this matter. You make me ashamed." ------- Dear concerned JW-someone: Thanks for your comments. Have you thought of attending the Silent Lambs March at Bethel on 9-27-02 in order to show your view & support? What you describe is exactly the purpose of the March, i.e., to have a judicial hearing FOR THE GB MEMBERS on the following "charges": 1. Apostasy-The Governing body has taken action against the true worship of Jehovah and the established order among his dedicated people (Jer.17:13; 23:15; 28.15,16 ; 2 Thess. 2: 9,10) They have deliberately spread and stubbornly held to teachings contrary to Bible truth in the establishment of an organizational Policy that hurts children. -- 2. Loose Conduct-The Governing Body has shown a. disregard for theocratic order in their failure to protect the flock. ( Gal. 5:19:2 Pet. 2:7; w83 3/15 p.31; w73 9115 pp, 574-6; it-2 p. 264 ) -- 3. Causing Divisions-The Governing Body has committed deliberate action to disrupt the unity of the congregation and undermined the confidence of the brothers in Jehovah's arrangement by their inaction on matters concerning child abuse and battered women. ( Rom. 16:17, 18; Titus 3: 10,11 ) -- The actions of the Governing Body in establishing Watchtower Policy with regard to how child molestation is handled in the Christian Congregation at the direction of the Service Department, Legal Department, District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, and local elders, has broken God's law and destroyed the lives of many faithful brothers and sisters. -- Therefore [Bro.Bowen] formerly request to resolve this matter "within the framework of the congregation and according to Scriptural principles," by calling for a judicial committee to be convened in Brooklyn, New York on September 27, 2002 of three impartial elders who are spiritual men with no fear for standing up for righteousness... several hundred eye-witnesses ...will provide extensive evidence in the form of written documentation, personal experience, and eye-witness testimony, to accuse the Governing Body that by their policy on child molestation they are guilty of racketeering, witness tampering, conduct unbecoming a Christian and crimes against children. -- It is [Bro.Bowen's] hope the judicial committee will be able to find acts of repentance commensurate with their wrongdoing committed against children. If so then Public Reproof will help the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses to know the Governing Body has become truly repentant humble men and will act in the best interests of Jehovah's Witness children. On the other hand if proper works of commensurate repentance cannot be found or if they try to minimize the wrong, the Governing Body should be disf'ellowshipped and not reinstated until they take responsibility for their actions." --- (This info is from the 6-6-02 letter to the GB from SilentLambs/B.Bowen. The entire context of this letter can be found by going to the HOME PAGE and then clicking on "SILENT LAMBS MARCH 9/27/02" and click on the March Info again after that.) --- In light of this letter, one can see WHY the GB wanted to get B.Bowen DF'd BEFORE 9-27-02. Who of the current JW's will put up with this, and for how much longer?

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
18:48:14
Comments
An ounce of action is worth a ton of theory. -- Friedrich Engels

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
18:50:47
Comments
" Whenever the (GB) legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, OR to reduce them to SLAVERY under ARBITRARY POWER, they put themselves into a state of WAR with the (JW) people, who are thereupon ABSOLVED from any further obedience..." --John Locke, 2nd Treatise on Government Ch. 19 par. 222

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
18:52:15
Comments
" This above all: to thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man." --William Shakespeare, from Hamlet

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
18:53:40
Comments
" Any path is only a path, and there is no affront, to oneself or to others, in dropping it if that is what your heart tells you... Look at every path closely and deliberately. Try it as many times as you think is necessary. Then ask yourself, and yourself alone, one question ... Does this path have a heart? If it does, the path is good; if it doesn't it is of no use." --Carlos Casteneda, from The Teachings of Don Juan

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
18:54:47
Comments
" Begin challenging your own assumptions. Your assumptions are your windows on the world. Scrub them off every once in while, or the light won't come in." --Alan Alda

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
19:23:03
Comments
These JWD are not eager to learn.I don't know why. They think the WT Org. is all right. But it is not! Right from the begginning it was build on wrong foundation with Russel who thought nothing but falshood. and was steeped in supernatural and egyptology.He was confident in Miracle wheat that he was selling until the courts of US stopped him. Rutherford was much worse. A first class drunkard arogant materialistic to infinity power hungry monsternwho fantasised spirituality under the influence of demons. He was a person who was setting up mobs so that he can win religious freedom form the government for his organization and have a free hand in zombinazing people in his cult. He was the one who loved HITLER!!! Knorr was running tough business using slave labor more than any previous commander and Franz just a plain lier. The rest are no different at all.Among them are homosexulas, child molesters,tiefs.( they took 24 billion dollars from a couple in USA) . They are coowners of guaiding systems for american bombs and are on the stock market etc.etc.. What do you people want to gain by remaining blind and bring yourselves and your families to Jugment where only the Hell is a reward? Oh yes' you say : there is no Hell. Wait and see. Some of these JWD pretend to be nice and want to be respected for their ddialogs on this page but they fool nobody. The music they make is out of tune just like the so called Truth that comes out of their literature and their motuh is. You JWD are playing with fire that could only destroy you. The Wachtower Society makes absolutely no sense in the light of the scripture and the GB are outright criminals.All the hierarchy in the WT including the individual elders are responsible for all the evil occuring in that society. They all take part in cariing out orders to mislead and destroy families. Please investigate first and after you do that polemize. If you don't you just show publicaly how the WT destroyed your ability to think and the extend of your ignorance. No wonder many call you BORG. I wish I'd have something nice to say about you but the greater number of you here are just a suplant by the WT. Well you put tour own rope around your own neck. rmk

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
19:46:54
Comments
Conformity: Conformity is the jailer of freedom and the enemy of growth. (John F. Kennedy)

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
19:52:56
Comments
Conformity: I think the reward for conformity is that everyone likes you except yourself. (Rita Mae Brown)

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
19:57:25
Comments
Consequence: I don't wasnt to stand with the setting sun And hate myself for the things I've done.(Or hadn't done) (Edgar A. Guest) Good work Bill! At least you will be able to sleep at night.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
20:12:06
Comments
Hay, I like those Conformity quotations. And RMK, are you sure that was 24 BILLION? Who/what/when/where/why & HOW???

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
20:16:46
Comments
When people complained that Billy Sunday, the famous American prohibitionist preacher, was RUBBING the FUR the WRONG WAY, he retorted: "I SAY, LET THE CATS TURN AROUND." ***** Even tho Silent Lambs is certainly rubbing the FAT CATS at HQ the Wrong Way, will they be Humble Enough to repent and TURN AROUND?

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
20:45:35
Comments
OFF TOPIC: John, didn't you write something here within the past few days that the WTS wrote in some prior literature that African Americans could pray so they would become white? If so, would you post that info at the J-W.com forum, as I think Fred Hall would really like to hear about it. Also, did you guys know that when Muhammad Ali refused to be drafted, the famous WTS attorney, Hayden Covington, was his attorney? Anyway, here's the link to that forum thread, John, and thanks:
<http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?
id=33873&site=3>

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
20:52:44
Comments
If anyone in Cenral Florida would love to help with the distribution of Silentlambs related material, contact me at Zenreese@aol.com. I am very happy that people are speaking out all over the world. keep up the good work and keep supporting Bill Bowen. Wil Reese

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
20:58:58
Comments
THE WATCHTOWER IS NOT KEEPING A GOOD EYE ON IT'S SUBJECTS !!!! THEY CHOOSE TO IGNORE THE WARNINGS FROM THOSE WHO ARE CRYING OUT AMONGST THEIR OWN RANKS!!! What kind of organization is this! This must be stopped. Anyone in Florida needing help contact me at Zenreese @aol.com. Wil Reese

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
21:41:22
Comments
Funny thread at J-W.com about bumper stickers had this one (funny!) ----- "MILLIONS WHO WERE LIVING IN 1925 HAVE DIED"

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
21:43:58
Comments
My name is Patty Schmidt and had the opportunity to speak to Mr. Bowen this evening. I found it very validating and a HUGE sense of relief and peace. I at one time would call myself a shredded lamb...not pretty. But a wonderful councilor and my Jehovah and time (that 4 letter word!!) has helped me alot. I am so glad to have found this web sight. My e-mail is SCHMIDTHOUSE1@prodigy.net. Thanks a bunch!!

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
21:52:41
Comments
You call me RMK because this is my signature. What do I call you when you do not sign your post a practice widely exercised in the WT. Yes, not 24 millions but 24 BILLIONS!! Besides they put the owner to jail by bribing the judge and the lawyers . The man got out by a coincidence. The WT has to pay that back now because of the court desision but the broken family can't be restored.The WT corrupted his wife to no return! I do not hate any person in JW.In the contrary I pray for your salvation I know too well that you are just blind my family included. But the organization of JW must be destroyed. We do it brick by brick and God will give it a blow from which it will never recover because the WT is His enemy number1 ! Why? The primery reason for that is DEFAMATION of His Holy Name. I also wonder if you know what Conformity is. I think you are quite competent to give me some lessons in that because I admit you are trained in that very well in WT. RMK

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
22:34:50
Comments
This quote has gotten me through many things to me it describes how Evil thinks and is to itself and us,what I find funny is it now fits the Organizations minons perfectly the "monstrous men without conscience......... "Monsters are a variations of the accepted normal to a greater or lesser degree. As a child may be born without an arm, so one may be born without kindness or the potential of conscience. A man loses his arms in an accident has a great struggle to adjust himself to the lack, but one born without arms suffers only from people that find him strange. Having never had arms, he can not miss them. Sometimes when we are little we sometimes imagine how it would be to have wings, but there is no reason to suppose it is the same feeling birds have. No, to a monster the norm must seem monstrous, since everyone is normal to himself. To the inner monster it must be even more obscure,since he has no visible things to compare with others. To a man born without a conscience,a soul-stricken man must seem ridiculous . To a criminal honesty is foolish. You must not forget a monster is only a variation, and to a monster the norm is monstrous. JOhn Steinbeck East of Eden

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
22:39:39
Comments
P.S. In regards my above quote I hope it helps others put those monsters in perspective as to why they are and how they come to be. Not to make excuses for them. Just that they are this way and they view themselves as normal. So quit blaming ourselves for what we have no control over, they aren't normal and don't think normally. That is why children need to be protected, heck sometimes even adults from these abberations. Hope you understand Sheila

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
22:48:56
Comments
Greetings to the silent lambs, their supporters, and even their confused misguided and misled detractors. Today in my ;ocal paper, The Plain Dealer (Cleveland, Ohio) their is a fairly good sized article off the Associated Press concerning the pedophilia issue in the Kingdom Halls. It was printed right under an article about the Catholic pedophilia controversy. I am a Bible-believing Christian. I would NEVER report sexual abuse to my pastor first. I would go straight to the police. It is a CRIME and the authorities MUST be made aware of it. I am grateful that our denomination has had a policy in place for several years. Our wonderful Lord, Jesus Christ, warned us about how bad it will be for child molesters. Why are the Pedophile Protectors of the Watchtower trying to be NICER THAN JESUS? I will keep the article posted on my front door for the next little smiling band of Watchtower magazine salesmen and women to see! Peace and blessings. Lawrence

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
23:17:04
Comments
48-Hours repeated a program last week, with follow-up, about a family that was torn apart because children made false accusations against them. The children claimed child molestation by the family members that owned and worked in their family business -- a child care center. It was found that the children actually got a lot of their ideas from those who were questioning them. Even though the children knew things that a child their age would not know, it was because their questioners gave them the ideas, not because they actually experienced child molestation. The issue here is telling "all" to elders. I'm not sure it's a good idea to have a child sit in a room with 3 MEN and make them describe every lurid detail to them. This is a police matter, not a religious matter. One's religion is supposed to be a hiding place from a storm. One should find comfort and consolation from one's church leaders. It seems to me that one should choose their hospital emergency room carefully -- one that has excellent experience in treating victims of rape and molestation and will do a thorough and sensitive job for the victim. The evidence THEY gather is what will be used to HELP the victim legally. There should be an attorney present at all times. There should be a witness present even during examination. A recording of the questions, answers and general conversation should be made. Again, an attorney that is experienced and sensitive to rape and molestation. An attorney that will properly advise the victim and/or the victim's family. I think that I would not seek the elders' assistance in this type of matter. I may telephone them and tell them that such and such happened and that it will be handled as a legal matter. People have a tendency to be voyeurs. They ask questions because they want all the "low down". They are titilated by it. For all I know, it could be a rapist or pedophile that I'm seeking comfort from. I don't think elders are entitled to those details. All they need to know is that a rape or molestation took place. Period. I don't understand why they wouldn't want the police to investigate. It's only with a good investigation that proper evidence is gathered and a case is made. A victim NEEDS proper evidence gathered and the support from a good investigation. A part of proper evidence is finding out HOW a child knows to say or show the things they're saying happened to them. If it is found that they were coached in their answers in any way -- encouraged to say things happened to them and then given the words to describe them -- then the child's testimony is, in the least, questionnable. That is one reason why I don't think elders should be involved in that type of inquiry. Their job is to comfort. They don't need all the details to do that. There was a rash of child molestation trials during the 80s and 90s against parents. Also, against owners and teachers of child care centers. Parents and the rest were put in jail. they lost their lives, homes, reputations, and everything they worked for all their lives. Then it was found out that the children were encouraged to lie against them by their questioners. I can understand caution but I cannot understand the deliberate shielding of known rapists or pedophiles (a pedophile is a rapist). If not one but another and another come forward about the SAME PERSON -- and there is a policy of silence so it's not feasible that they're repeating "gossip" -- then HOW CAN THE ELDERS OR THE SOCIETY IGNORE THE EVIDENCE AGAINST A PERSON? I think the example of the Israelite Cities of Refuge is something to look at. It's about murder but, even if a person was innocent and the avenger of blood thought it was him (or her) because of past troubles with the deceased person, they could go after him. Society's own comments in public talks. Therefore, such a one would have to run to the nearest city of refuge and a trial would have to take place. How can one gain justice if no "trial" takes place -- even within the congregation? It just plain doesn't make any sense. Jehovah God is a JUST God. He REQUIRES justice -- not just for himself but for his people, too. He requires justice AMONG his people. I remember one judge saying, in answer to the radio host's question as to why judges weren't harder on drunk drivers (this was before it became "fashionable" to condemn -- with good reason -- drunk drivers). The judge said something to the effect, "Because we all have a drink now and then and get in the car and drive. We don't want to be too harsh because it could be me being tried for drinking and driving." Considering this principle, can it be that certain "others" don't want to press issues because it "could be THEM on trial"? It is appaling to be that no one in the congregation can trust each other. We just get warnings to be careful about our associations, even in the congregation. While that's true, we're all imperfect humans and subject to failures, it's also unfair for people to walk around in the congregation and be polite but wondering if I or someone else they have contact with is the one we're being warned about. It casts asprrsions on EVERYONE'S character simply by being in association. What a nasty "game" to play with people who are in association in TRUST with you. Even in the early Christian congregation there were some who were terrible people. The Bible tells us they were worse than those found in the world. However, that is NOT an excuse for anyone in our association to be that way. It's written as a warning of what the terrible things are and that we should stay away from such things rather than contaminate the Christian congregation. The Israelite nation, too, had huge variations in their worship. However, it's not there to tell us it's NORMAL among us because THEY had those problems. It's there to let us know HOW WE SHOULD NOT BE. Why is it, then, that some seem to not know such things are not normal and that they should not exist among Jehovah God's people?--Conchita.

Remote User:

Date:
11 Aug 2002
Time:
23:23:41
Comments
*******THE MOLE********There are individuals among us who in time will without any judicial hearing voluntarily turn around from such course and lead exemplary lives. At the same time, other have been engaiging in such conduct such as child molesting for many years; some will not be dicovered for more years to cone if at all. This continues to be the case in many halls despite the thousands disfellowshipped annually. There is nothing to show that the percentage of wrongdoers is less today than it was ten or twenty years ago when I became active. More crucial to the validation of a supposed morea superiourity, is the organization's inability to show that thier percentage is any lower than the percentage to be found in other religious communities. ***********There is no questin in my mind that the legalistic approach to christianity, the multitudes of rules, and at the same time, a frequent double standard, all contribute to an essentially blurred viewpoint of what christian righteousness is. When the individual feels he or she is not under observation by organizational authority, these factors actually may produce a weakened resistance to wrongdoing. This should answer your question on how I ponder the things of Christ more by using the example of two martyrs we have today....****The faculities of our mind should reason this out, that by reducing the exposure and select talks that we are to do, lowers the feeling of guilt. This is how Bill will be silenced..........THE MOLE************

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
00:17:20
Comments
this is beautiful. you all are wnderful...i take your words with me as i take strength of heart through each day. megdookie@aol.com

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
00:37:40
Comments
Bill, Looks like we spanked them again! But you know what they say . . . :-) Heidi Meyer

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
01:15:33
Comments
Has anyone heard about the hotelmotel meeting tonight??? I've been on pins and needles... since yesterday (thought yesterday was Sunday) lol, someone got any info??? bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
01:38:29
Comments
WTS HAS RETALIATED AGAINST THE LAMBS!!! -----From: "silentlambs" <info@silentlambs.org> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2002 01:19:54 -0500 To: <info@silentlambs.org> Subject: Bill Bowen Disfellowshipped------- As of 8:30 pm this evening the appeal hearing decided to uphold the decision. I spoke to them for over an hour and tried to reason with them as to the validity of their decision. Frankly, they were not interested. They refused to look at the letters from people all over the world that stated silentlambs had not divided them from JW's, they refused to look at over 1,000 stories of abuse I had with me, they refused to read the New York Times, they tried to refuse the witnesses who came with me the right to speak with them. It did not work they had to face them anyway as they banged on the door and forced the committee to let them in. The result was the worst case of elder abuse I have seen in 20 years. The committee had to sit and listen for another hour and a half to the reality of what their decision meant. ----- Did it make a difference? Nope. ----- As you all know, there is no reasoning, no logic, no fairness, no justice, when it comes to the directions the Governing Body has mandated for all who try to speak out on abuse. They will have their control, they will have their silence and if children are raped, so what. Sell books or die... ----- silentlambs ----- If you would like to see the appeal hearing click the link below:
http://community.webshots.com/scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=
viewall&albumID=46689807 <http://community.webshots.com/
scripts/editPhotos.fcgi?action=viewall&amp;albumID=46689807>

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
03:02:40
Comments
QUESTION: How can we order the mint ribbons as seen in the photos (lapel ribbons for Silent Lambs)? I never knew these existed. They are nice, and I'd like to order some and hand them out, if that's possible! Anyone know? Thanks! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
03:04:35
Comments
CORRECTED LINK for the photos:
http://community.webshots.com/album/46689807WUXQbp

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
09:10:57
Comments
Dear Sheila & Bill . . This has been an anxious worrisome time for your family. We are proud of you for standing at to the mighty opposer. You are HERO's in our eyes. Nan

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
09:32:02
Comments
Jhn 15:13 Greater love has no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. . Bill is disfellowshipped & shunned by friends and family not because he was evil but because he stood for principal. In this world few will ever make this stand. It is harder to stand for right than to ignore evil

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
09:55:57
Comments
I hope that people who are here today have now seen the real side of the WTS. How they deal with anyone who will not submit to them, and their whims. Just deny that anything bad ever happens inside the society of JW's, say it is rare, say it happens less often than anywhere else. Just dismiss it. Call people “detractor” (Whatever that means.) I say FREEDOM FIGHTER! I will never use the “D” word again because I do not do that to the Jehovah's Witnesses. If I get my way the sect will be a better group of people when I am done. Their children will be safer. Their people will not have to fear physical and mental, or even spiritual violence from their Parents, Husbands or Wives; no longer will they live in the mist of self imposed religious persecution. (Imaging that, not have to leave your religion AND not have to live with all the BS, what a concept.) I find that hopeful and uplifting. Of course those who have gained so much power inside the sect will oppose this. There will be those who will loose their power over people. They are right; they will loose the ability to intimidate.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:05:13
Comments
Ever hear the saying, "The truth hurts?" ======= Mole, why SHOULD Bill be SILENCED? ======= Trying to LIE AGAINST THE TRUTH is a VERY FATAL MISTAKE -- especially when the evidence is too abundant to be denied. ======= Poor handling should be silenced, not people whose consciences are being tormented day-by-day by reason of their lawless deeds. (2 Peter 2:8)======= How do you know that Jehovah God, himself, isn't allowing this to occur and that the weeding out is being meted from the top down? ======= This arogance and untouchableness sounds so much like the proud priests and political leaders of the Jews in Jesus Christ's days. They didn't listen to Jesus Christ and encouraged their people to shun him, too, and they led themselves and everyone who put their trust in them to their destruction, as foretold, in 70AD. ======= The organization won't fail, only those who are causing a misrepresentation of Jehovah God and his justice will fail. (1 Corinthians 10:12) ======= We should be GLAD for challenges. Challenges give us an opportunity to show we're doing things right. ======= There's NO CONCENSUS agreeing that the ones in authority are handling this right. ======= Why not do an ANONYMOUS SURVEY among JWs and see if they're all REALLY in agreement with the society's current policy? However, I'm sure the fear of genuinely, TRULY, expressing themselves would color their answers even in an anonymous survey. There is a tremendous fear among JW's. You can see it in the robot way they're friendly to everyone but won't engage in meaningful conversation with one another. Elders DO threaten and warn people and they DON'T LISTEN even if you come with a stack of our publications and Bible scriptures. They DO try to RUN PEOPLE'S LIVES. You have a large group, in my estimation, of elders who abuse their authority simply because they CAN -- NO ONE'S goning to challenge them, especially not headquarters. There shouldn't be any fear among us, especially if we're speaking TRUTH. (Ephesians 4:25; 2 Corinthians 3:17; Galatians 2:4)======= Mole, maybe YOU should be silenced. You write as though you're an absolute authority, too. Are you the Bethelite assigned to monitor this group?--Conchita

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:23:34
Comments
Mole I get your meaning. I know you are OK. keep doing what you do:-SEQ. However, If I am silenced then I know another will take my place. If they are silenced then another will take their place. And another, and another. Will will not be defeated because our fight is just.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:27:35
Comments
12 Aug 2002 Time: 10:23:34///We and Bill will not be defeated because our fight is just.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:51:08
Comments
I was ubused

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:51:18
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Me too!

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:51:35
Comments
Yeh I was abused too!

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:52:00
Comments
Them damn JW's abused me when I was a fetus!

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:52:20
Comments
I think they abused me

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:52:43
Comments
A JW elder looked at me one time... Does that count?

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
10:53:54
Comments
There you have friends 6 more verified accounts of abuse by the JW's. Seems like all you have to do is say it and it is so.

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:14:21
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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:14:26
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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:14:31
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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:14:38
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a

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:14:44
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b

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:14:50
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c

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:14:57
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d

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:15:02
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e

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:15:08
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f

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:15:14
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g

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:15:19
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h

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:15:24
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i

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:15:29
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j

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:15:35
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k

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:15:40
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l

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:15:45
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m

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:15:51
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n

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:15:55
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o

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:16:00
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p

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:16:05
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q

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:16:12
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r

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:16:16
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s

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:16:21
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t

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:16:29
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u

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
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11:16:36
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v

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:16:42
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w

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:16:48
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x

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:16:54
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y

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:17:01
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z

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:17:09
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Now

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:17:14
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I

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:17:21
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know

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:17:25
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my

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:17:34
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ABC's

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:17:42
Comments
Next

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:17:47
Comments
Time

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:18:16
Comments
won't

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:19:06
Comments
silly boy! To continue on your silly path. To make fun of abuse? To make light of other's pain? Continue then on your road then, keep doing what you are doing, it only shows how silly you are and makes us want to pity you. As I am sure most here will, We love you though you silly boy!

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:19:32
Comments
you

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:19:38
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sing

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:19:44
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with

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:19:51
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me?

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:20:07
Comments
Boo Hoo Bill got Df'd

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:25:09
Comments
I love you too silly boy or silly girl....

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:25:34
Comments
In regzard to the 48Hour Episdode. They FEEL that the children were coached. the obviously was SOME sort of physical evidence or the wouldn't have gotten as far as a trial. Again the media has garneredm sympathy for those found guilty, but was there any information from the other side children saying "that never happened, I wasn't abused"? Again just as the media can work for the Silent Lambs they can do an about face just for ratings. I remember the ORIGINAL episode and the plethora of evidence the put them behind bars, it wasn't just the children's testimony. The percentage of children abused is so much greater than the confused children. Most children live in fear and guilt and shame that ANYONE would find out what their being forced to do with a trusted adult. I understand this, without having walked in those shoes WHY, WHY is it so hard for others???? We had a family friend that I always thought was weird, I remember them visiting in Mo one summer. He constantly picked on his step-daughter she would carve pretty things out of the local sand stone, he would blow them up or step on them to gring them to nothing. I can remember wondering what fueled the hate that rippled off of them. Years later lo and behold, I find out a family member of mine was touched WAY inappropriatly by this same man and my parents NEVER asked what made her act so funny after the incident. After all he was their friend....Well, their "friend" ended up in PRISON he molested not only his step-daughter but his biological daughter is that what caused the prison sentence NO, they were to scared and so was their mother. He had divorced remarried and molested his new spouses daughter SHE did something about him. To make a really long story short, when I told my Dad where his "friend" had been. Although so many things happened that HE knew about, he said he didn't believe that his "friend" did anything and that if he chose to visit he was welcome, although my Dad constantly had all his grandchildren at his home. Funny at 8 years old this "friend" gave me the hee bee jeebies, I saw the anger of his daughter and the way he playyfully taunted her. But all the adults chose to look the other way???? I find this goes along with my Monster quote ya know. So to the taunter that says that if you say it, it makes it so. So very few have the guts to lay down the guilt heeped on them by abusers and stand and say it. So think about the Silent Ones that are to scared. Sheila Madonia

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:27:07
Comments
Whoever wrote the abc's you are to be pitied! Poor miserable loser!

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:27:34
Comments
PS Pardon my spelling errors, I had just woke up and the yawing caused it all LOL SLM

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:37:57
Comments
So sad that this baloney has to go on. At least grade school will start in a month.

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Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:41:21
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
11:46:57
Comments
There ARE elders that LIE. They're no different or better then COPS WHO LIE, plant evidence, conspire together to MAKE a lie true. (2 Thessalonians 2:11) * They also have insensitive idiots like the one that just wasted 27 posts to show how "smart" they are. Nice going: Are you NATURALLY stupid or DO YOU PRACTICE?

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
12:03:21
Comments
I expect the poo pooing of Bill's dealings with the WTS GB to go on for awhile. I hope it is not to discouraging for some people. Keep in mind that this site is not censored and some people will take advantge of that. I look forward to going out with witnesses in my home town who are out in service. I really do wonder how they, and the public will react to a different point of view being presented at the same time. Who will be the light being cast on darkness. How will they react to the history of the WT, and the questions that will be asked of them. Will they run away? I hope that others will also do this. In Ohio this is the best way to solve their problem. Anyone from that area who reads this post look at B&N.com and type Jehovah's Witnesses. Offer these books to read to the individuals who come to your door. Offer them a business card to this site. If the Witnesses belifes, and MUCH more important, their practices were challened on the open field of "service" with one or better yet a pair of informed individuals who understand how this dangerous sect operates what would be the result?-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
12:22:50
Comments
I can't BELIEVE how incredibly similar these people's stories are to MINE!! There are probably SO MANY little girls that are getting hurt RIGHT NOW, and nobody there to help them. THIS HAS TO BE STOPPED! All this really made me angry--that they think they can actually JUDGE cases of sexual abuse, and just pretend they're going to do something about it, and instead cover it up. AND that it has happened to many other people in this "religion"!!! It definitely has boosted my confidence, because I know now that I am not alone. Needless to say, I am no longer affiliated with the Witnesses. I would love to correspond with some people who I can share my story with. Cydni Mack Email: cmack@uiuc.edu

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
12:44:10
Comments
Remember silly, shallow person who posted the ABC'S and other nonsense>>>>>>>When you want to play with the big boys WE ARE OVER AT www.jehovahs-witness.com .. Please come play your silly games face to face.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
13:15:38
Comments
Sheila Madonia: You make several excellent points. But I want to correct you on the 48-hours references. There was no physical evidence in the McMahtin Day Cayah Centah case in Malden Mass. The children were coerced and the jury never saw the tapes of the coercion. It was horrifying to watch a four-year-old go from denying all assertions in one session, to the point of calling another child a liar, all the way to another session and affirming all assertions with such confidence. By that time that child believed these things had happened to her. In one sense I would say that the person that inserted that memory into an impressionable child is about as guilty as someone who may have actually done such a crime. The primary issue of the 48-hours episode was the witch-hunt nature of the investigation and prosecution. Public sentiment was firmly in the 'believe what they say' camp and manifested itself in a 'burn them all' attitude. But the public never heard all the children had to say - particularly the excupable stuff. We as a country failed in that crucible. That underscores the need for a professional investigation - the kind that elders cannot undertake themselves. Enough of that. We do need to protect the children while avoiding a self-righteous, conscience-free witch hunt zeal. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
13:55:39
Comments
Buster, I too watched the episode and agree with what you said as far as the the testimony of some of the children. Was there NO evidence of any abuse to the children??? Physical? Seems when the story first was aired there was in one child but not in the others. My point still is the media still didn't take a balanced view of the latest information on this case. It was all guilty and first now all innocent, if the media would stop the ratings game and just report from a more balanced view. It was funny how 48 HRS condemend the "witch hunt" but seem to skirt the issue that THEY were right along for the ride. Sheila

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
14:42:46
Comments
BUSTER: thank you for your enlightening judgement of myself. my post about 'demons in the car park' was in response to a comment from John about what i previously said. trust someone like you to jump in half way, and without knowing the full conversation and start judging me on what's being said. you obviously don't believe in demons or holy spirit. i do and so that makes me superstitious??? i suppose Christ was superstitious too was he??? SO IM THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO WOULD STAND BY AND LET A CHILD BE ABUSED???? IM THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO AGREES WITH BILLS DISFELLOWSHIPING AM I???? I would refer you back to my first comment on which John commented on, but i wont bother 'cause i just know it'll be a waste of time. let me just put you straight on something shall i? i think the society's stance on child abuse is complete CRAP! there, does that make you a little happier? ***** if i'm saying that i think holy spirit is with my congregation does that mean its with all congs?? if the society were sinning, which i think they clearly are, would they have holy spirit with them?? do i have to spell those answers out to you?? is christ with those who worship in spirit and truth or with those who are more interested in money and power in the org? if i wanted a comment like yours i would have asked my 11-year-old nephew. but I being a JW, you would probably think i'd be abusing him, hey?? i was just waiting really for a sad comment like that from someone like you. i firmly believe what Bill has done to be good and honest, standing up for what's right. his disfellowshiping was a complete farce. i feel for all those who have been witch hunted as regards this issue. if the WTS fell apart tomorrow i wouldn't shed a tear. my relationship and faith is with God not the WTS. ******* SO BUSTER- lets see what you really believe in, and what you put your faith in. lets see you be honest, lay your cards out. whats up? scared that we'll take the piss out of you? and show you up as a no hoper as regards faith?? at least i've got the guts to say what i believe in even if it does contrast to what other JWs believe. you are just a coward jumping on the bandwagon to try and prove yourself as being such a great and moral person. there, have some mud flung back in your face! Rich

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
14:42:47
Comments
BUSTER: thank you for your enlightening judgement of myself. my post about 'demons in the car park' was in response to a comment from John about what i previously said. trust someone like you to jump in half way, and without knowing the full conversation and start judging me on what's being said. you obviously don't believe in demons or holy spirit. i do and so that makes me superstitious??? i suppose Christ was superstitious too was he??? SO IM THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO WOULD STAND BY AND LET A CHILD BE ABUSED???? IM THE TYPE OF PERSON WHO AGREES WITH BILLS DISFELLOWSHIPING AM I???? I would refer you back to my first comment on which John commented on, but i wont bother 'cause i just know it'll be a waste of time. let me just put you straight on something shall i? i think the society's stance on child abuse is complete CRAP! there, does that make you a little happier? ***** if i'm saying that i think holy spirit is with my congregation does that mean its with all congs?? if the society were sinning, which i think they clearly are, would they have holy spirit with them?? do i have to spell those answers out to you?? is christ with those who worship in spirit and truth or with those who are more interested in money and power in the org? if i wanted a comment like yours i would have asked my 11-year-old nephew. but I being a JW, you would probably think i'd be abusing him, hey?? i was just waiting really for a sad comment like that from someone like you. i firmly believe what Bill has done to be good and honest, standing up for what's right. his disfellowshiping was a complete farce. i feel for all those who have been witch hunted as regards this issue. if the WTS fell apart tomorrow i wouldn't shed a tear. my relationship and faith is with God not the WTS. ******* SO BUSTER- lets see what you really believe in, and what you put your faith in. lets see you be honest, lay your cards out. whats up? scared that we'll take the piss out of you? and show you up as a no hoper as regards faith?? at least i've got the guts to say what i believe in even if it does contrast to what other JWs believe. you are just a coward jumping on the bandwagon to try and prove yourself as being such a great and moral person. there, have some mud flung back in your face! Rich

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
14:51:14
Comments
Hermano Bowen: Gracias por ser tan honesto y luchar por lo correcto. Siga adelante y jehova que es un dios leal actuara en bien con usted. No se deje intimidar. Gracias Billy

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
14:57:53
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
14:58:47
Comments
Rich: 'No hoper as regards faith?' - now that hurts. I went back and re-read your post and it was you who referred to the clairvoyant and the spirits in the cars to make a point. Did you really think you could make that point and maintain your credibility? It was you that fired off the 'vengence belongs to Jehovah' and that statement has all the ring of someone that thinks that the problem is up to someone else to solve. Anyway, a little time in an anger management program may be helpful. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
15:14:59
Comments
I believe what your medium saw in the parking lot Rich. What makes me wonder, maybe they didn't feel the need to come inside. Did your medium see good spirits inside? You didn't say that she did, only bad ones outside. Maybe like I said they didn't want to go in for there was no need, not that they couldn't go in. I'm surprised that your medium is even welcome inside either for that matter. The JWs teaching is strongly against even consorting with a medium, so if she is telling all of you about the beasties outside, how can you be sure that they aren't on the inside and she knows this and wants to make it look like they aren't inside to fool all into believing that they can't go in, good way to fool everyone into believing that they are within the light, by trickery, and lies, good way to keep HIS children in the dark. Think about it will ya? And the thing I got from busters comments about it was, that these beasties are getting into the cars as they leave, for what purpose? beasties don't hang on unless there is something to hang on to. so these little beasties could be attaching themselves to the witnesses that leave to control their thoughts and movements while away from the hall. Maybe when the witnesses are inside the little beasties don't go in cause they don't need to, some worse beastie is inside doing all it can, gives the other beasties a break! I sure hope not. But it could be just so!

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
15:17:32
Comments
Does anyone read objectively what is written? It seems to me, after rereading my post, that there isn't any doubt that I said the accusing children were NOT molested -- they were coached into being able to show and express that they were molested. Don't make arguments where they're not.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
15:45:20
Comments
TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: Rich heard about Silentlambs, had enough "feeling" for the issue to express himself honestly. Why tear him apart??? We are trying to reach JW's - not alienate them. Or am I wrong???? One more brother who might get "educated" enough about this crime - and you want to insult him, ridicule him and alienate him. WHY? What is the point? Tomorrow he might, just might have to deal with a child who has been harmed - and it appears to me that Rich will have no fear of the WTS. Jeskia and Linda T may be right - the mood of this place has gotten too "political" and has lost something. None of us is 100% right 100% of the time. I value Rich THE JW posting here. He has not been rude, or hateful and he speaks about the love of Christ. None of us here walked away from the WTS in one day, it is a process - give Rich a break and stop being so critical. It is so easy to be hateful and that is unproductive. Soapbox

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
16:03:36
Comments
CE, you are quite right, and very well spoken. You have described what many of us feel. To J.R., and those who feel as he does; that this is no longer in support of the silentlambs, but rather a forum for WTS bashing...perhaps you just don't understand. You see, each and every Witness who has trusted- a trust that goes perhaps as deep as a child's trust, yes , it IS a childlike trust- in those who led us spirtually; only to find out later, perhaps MANY years later, as in my case,18 years...that the ones who have preached HONESTY, INTEGRITY, TRUTH... have been found by many people to be DISHONEST, LACKING INTEGRITY, and outright DECEPTIVE, well... our childlike trust has been utterly shattered!!! You cannot imagine, unless you've been through it, the horrible feelings of betrayal and helplessness you feel, VERY MUCH THE SAME AS A CHILD OF SEXUAL ABUSE feels!!! I know this too, because I am a surviver of this crime. So J.R., we have not left the ultimate subject here at all! The fact that we are all here shows our support of all the silentlambs. However, those of us who have found that we have been deceived, realize that WE TOO, are SPIRITUAL SILENTLAMBS!!! We cannot , no, we dare not speak of our "abuse" to those we love in the congregation, lest we lose them, and many of us already have. To whom else, then, can we speak, can we grieve, can we cry, but to our God and to one another? SO, please, don't try to silence these lambs, with critisism or anything else. We have been silent for too long already. From my personal experiance, talking about it helps us to heal. My deep love for all you fellow silentlambs, of the physical, and of the spiritual. JMD

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
16:07:02
Comments
To SLC: You said:"Hi bjc2! I, FOR ONE, THANK YOU for your efforts and for the information about The Report, and the details & addresses for it, and the corrections to the misunderstood parts, etc. I hope the ones who complained about "books" will not upset you. I was glad to have had this Report brought to my attention, since I am open to all possibilities at this point."-----/SLC**********My comments: Thank you. I'm happy to be of any help I can be to all my spiritual brothers and sisters during "the hour of test" (Rev. 3:10). I would encourage you to get your personal copy of "The Report" as circumstances permits; some among us here on "silentlambs" already have.--bjc*******emcpublications@yahoo.com

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
16:17:43
Comments
Bill Bowen – I have a question for you. How many sexual abuse cover-ups were YOU involved with? You claim to have served in 100 judicial committees. In 20 years in appointed positions, and 300 years of you being a JW in good standing, how many cover-ups were there under YOUR watch? 10? 20? 300? None? If your answer is “none”, does that mean that in 20 years in appointed service, there were NO cases? WOW 20 years is a great run. But if you were involved in a cover-up, which I'm sure you'll never admit to, why don't you turn yourself in at the nearest police station? Would you even admit it? This is all so perplexing, the fact that you were in an appointed position for 20 years (or was it 43?) but you STAYED there, if there were other cases. Wouldn't that make you a criminal, as elders here are so often referred to? What, you were brainwashed? Is that your excuse? Oh, I see. If you were brainwashed for 43 years, why should anyone listen to you? Don't you think you need a little more time to dirty that brain a little more, before its good again? If you can't or won't answer the questions, can one your paralegals here that can't spell answer for you? I wonder how they will apply texts to this one.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
16:17:49
Comments
Bill Bowen – I have a question for you. How many sexual abuse cover-ups were YOU involved with? You claim to have served in 100 judicial committees. In 20 years in appointed positions, and 300 years of you being a JW in good standing, how many cover-ups were there under YOUR watch? 10? 20? 300? None? If your answer is “none”, does that mean that in 20 years in appointed service, there were NO cases? WOW 20 years is a great run. But if you were involved in a cover-up, which I'm sure you'll never admit to, why don't you turn yourself in at the nearest police station? Would you even admit it? This is all so perplexing, the fact that you were in an appointed position for 20 years (or was it 43?) but you STAYED there, if there were other cases. Wouldn't that make you a criminal, as elders here are so often referred to? What, you were brainwashed? Is that your excuse? Oh, I see. If you were brainwashed for 43 years, why should anyone listen to you? Don't you think you need a little more time to dirty that brain a little more, before its good again? If you can't or won't answer the questions, can one your paralegals here that can't spell answer for you? I wonder how they will apply texts to this one.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
16:22:02
Comments
Soapbox- I know you have changed. But, to think that the average JW joe is going to have a change of heart is something I have little faith in. Most have no desire to change and every intention to divide us if possible. I want to inform everyone of what goes on in the "distructive cult" sects. They (the sects) have yet to learn that you can not shame, intimidate, scare, or hate anyone into being "moral." It has not worked for 6000 years. Even the sword has failed to bring moral purity. Even a flood did not due it. Until all christian sects and religions learn to love the world, they will fail to save the world. I see the propaganda machine hard at work to turn us against one another. And for now it is winning the battle. "You must become that which you wish to change in the world." (Gandi.) The programing that the WT does would first have to be undone before a Witness could be "reached." I fought that concept for years. Specific doctrine must be dispelled. (And this is not the place for that.) So I expect little help and nothing but road blocks from the WTS society. As I said though I belive that all will prosper from "us" who are working for religous freedom. I have tried to keep the "eye on the prize." (Public awareness.) Don't get bogged down in a skermish and loose the war. (Sun Tuz)-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
16:34:26
Comments
To nameless-Remote User: Date: 12 Aug 2002 Time: 16:17:43///////Your questions are unintelligable and you answered them all so were they questions, comments, or rants? It's like a watchtower magazine I get confused when I read due to there being no point being made. But that's ok becouse all the answers and attitudes that you wanted to us have are already there.-Sequia

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
16:56:41
Comments
12 Aug 2002 Time: 16:17:49 ////////// How will we reply? With love of course! we love you inspite of you!

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
17:01:00
Comments
Soapbox, thank you for your comments. I read the posts every day, and I just can't get angry at the various things that are being said here. It's a public site, anyone can post anything they choose, including the ABC's...LOL I really don't even mind some of the bantering about doctrine. I honestly just skim over it and continue scrolling until I find something I find interesting or important. I personally am happy there is a current elder posting here, however ironic it is, since congregation *pions* would be df'd in a heartbeat if they were caught. At least this elder is willing to consider the possibility of looking for information and/or answers outside of what he's told by the hierarchy in New York. I wish there were more elders who did this, they might learn how the rest of us really feel. I also don't care if current, or maybe I should say....attending witnesses are visiting and posting here either. Everyone knows that to so much as visit a site that opposes anything about the witnesses is a huge no-no, but to go so far as to post messages...well that is something. The *hardcore* witnesses, like my father, would say these are not *true* witnesses and will eventually be weeded out anyway. Let them post, let them banter, it won't change the facts and they cannot escape the facts anymore. We have only just begun.................Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
17:25:30
Comments
Remote User: Date: 12 Aug 2002 Time: 16:56:41 Comments(Said to) 12 Aug 2002 Time: 16:17:49 ////////// How will we reply? With love of course! we love you inspite of you!/////////(And I say)PERFECT & DITTOS I wish I had been so tactful. Thank you for the lesson!-Sequia

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
17:54:03
Comments
" Now I want you to be leaders also in the spirit of cheerful giving. I am not giving you an order; I am not saying you must do it, but others are eager for it. This is one way to prove that your love is real, that it goes beyond mere words." - 2 Corinthians 8:7-8

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
18:04:42
Comments
BUSTER - anger management? was I just emphasising the points I wanted to get across? I felt I had to do that because of your obvious intolerance for other people's beliefs. Since you are so good at judging though, I'll leave that for you to decide. All of us here who support Bill and the lambs aren't going to share the same points of view or beliefs as you do. So what's the point in critizing people for their own beliefs??? Perhaps you could enlighten me on that point? Whats the point of calling me a superstitious nut? Does your own faith allow your conscience to degrade other people? Do I detect the possibility that you have your own agenda? There could be the people on this site who are placed here by the WTS to cause I'll feeling like this, who knows? But I'll say this; if we're not united in our support for Bill and silent lambs, no matter what we believe, then we all might as well quit now. What's the point in being divided? We know who's for us, and who's against like Mole and JWD. You buster, do as much to be against us with the attitude you show. Ultimately it will be Jehovah who will sort out everything on earth one day. If I believed that all we had to do was wait on him in this regard, then I wouldn't be here. Don't confuse me with people like JWD. If a little time in anger management maybe helpful to me, maybe coming out of your own arse may help you. Rich

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
18:16:59
Comments
Soapbox: Can you really read and not react to a post expounding on the presence of Holy Spirit in the Hall as evidenced by the fact that evil spirits outside won't come in. Would you seriously read it, try to assimilate what point he was trying to make, ignore the method of making the point, and let it go at that? If so, you have a more mature than I, and you have a much more compassionate makeup. Tell you what, if you respond and say that you read that post and didn't have some urge to cast a quick aspersion or two on the sanity-challenged, then I'll let the next few reality deficient posts go by. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
19:00:19
Comments
You know...The beauty of this site is that it speaks heart to heart. This as opposed to head to head. I like that. I hope that it is allowed to be nurtured into a powerful force to give help and support to people who need it.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
19:03:17
Comments
The question I asked was this: what is the point in alienating a Brother who might be there to protect a child? I have lived long enough to learn what is a worthy cause to fight over and what to leave alone. What is the point in alienating Brothers who are understanding the problem and might be there to protect a child or instruct another Brother on this "matter?" This is the only place they can come and not be DF'd for expression of what they really feel and you want to alienate them. WHY???? How is this serving Bill Bowen and what he is trying to accomplish??????C.E. aka soapboxaka claudine BROTHERS PLEASE DO NOT STOP POSTING HERE - WE NEED YOU VERY MUCH!!!!

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
19:04:16
Comments
So does the dismissal of the letter to the GB by Bill mean that they (the GB)are not guilty of the charges presented or are they just above the laws (Burdens) that they place on everyone else?

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
19:13:35
Comments
NOW I KNOW WHY YOU CALL YOURSELF "BUSTER" -!!!!!! Geez magee....whose side are you on???? Anyone's or just yourself? If I were catholic I'd say Holy Mary Mother of Jesus- an "irish-catholic" expression. ****************it is like you are trying to pit one side against the other over trivia. BUSTER< HAVE YOU YOURSELF PERSONALLY BEEN EFFECTED BY THE CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE? WERE YOU A WITNESS AT ONE TIME? Helps to know these things to get an idea of where you are coming from......as it appears it is just pugnaciousness.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
19:22:46
Comments
Claudine-I understand your need to reach out. I have said my peice(s) I can only hope you remember my warning. I reached out for 10 years. I just dont see the alienation you do. Buster-IT TAKES GREAT RESTRAINT!-I just think that the worry is for not. Those who want help will come here. Those who think they are pure and in the big "T" will only come here to spout off.(Really I mean big deal) For them we have John's and Buster's. I only wish we were not 1000's of miles apart I'd buy ya'll a beer I don't know, there are times to worry but this is not one. Linda am I so off base?-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
19:31:18
Comments
The 7/15/02 Watchtower study article says on page 10, paragraph 1: Growing up is important to a child, but more than physical growth is desired. Mental and emotional growth are also expected. ======= On pages 13 and 14, paragraph 18, it says: Misunderstandings and personal offenses may pose a challenge to our godly devotion. They may cause anxiety or move some to take the unwise step of isolating themselves from their spiritual brothers and sisters. . . . A breach can be healed and peaceful relations restored if we ask forgiveness and admit that we handled matters improperly. Jesus also gave other counsel on handling difficulties. (Matthew 18:15-17) How happy we are when efforts to resolve problems meet with success! (Romans 12:18; Ephesians 4:26, 27) ======= Question: Does this apply only to the reader and not the directors and writers?

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
20:35:48
Comments
I was raised JW. At the age of 20 I stopped commuting and stayed on campus at a private college in Cleveland, Ohio. Some things I have done are not to Bible principles. This I understand and will be held accountable for. What I will not feel guilty for is that I no longer consider myself a JW. It saddens me that many of my family members that still are JW are blinded. They are only allowed to listen to what they are told and doing anything else is considered apostate or underminding the congration. Bill B., I salute you and your efforts, not to bring reproach to Jehovah's name, but to change a serious problem present in the Society's policy in these matters. Also threatening to and/or disfellowshiping those who raise questions to the WTBTS policies is sickening. Having secret letters to the elders and refusing to answer simple questions to inquiring, nationaly respected news sources makes me wonder. Is the Watchtower Society protecting themselves or those who truely believe in God and his organization? My world of belief has been shaken by these recent events. I only wish my family and former friends could view this information with an open mind.......sadly, I know this will never happen because it is forbidden by JW policy.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
20:41:23
Comments
Sequia: I am not sure that I understand what you mean by "we are all working for religious freedom." Can you explain??**************claudine

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
21:23:11
Comments
Cyndi Mack: You can post your story under "Abused Lambs" on the Home page of this site. When you do I would like to read it. The stories are hard to read but it is important to post them there. We have to dispell the idea that it is only a "few" people that this happened to. How did you find out about Silentlambs??? C.E.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
21:40:33
Comments
Re Report: This is my thoughts about it. The authors name is not mentioned - FLAG #1. There is some mention of "confidential" writings for a select few - FLAG #2. Prophecies - Flag #3. Secrets, more intrigue and more prophecies. ******* Sounds like another "cult" to me!

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
21:51:50
Comments
Bill Bowen – I have a question for you. How many sexual abuse cover-ups were YOU involved with? You claim to have served in 100 judicial committees. In 20 years in appointed positions, and 300 years of you being a JW in good standing, how many cover-ups were there under YOUR watch? 10? 20? 300? None? If your answer is “none”, does that mean that in 20 years in appointed service, there were NO cases? WOW 20 years is a great run. But if you were involved in a cover-up, which I'm sure you'll never admit to, why don't you turn yourself in at the nearest police station? Would you even admit it? This is all so perplexing, the fact that you were in an appointed position for 20 years (or was it 43?) but you STAYED there, if there were other cases. Wouldn't that make you a criminal, as elders here are so often referred to? What, you were brainwashed? Is that your excuse? Oh, I see. If you were brainwashed for 43 years, why should anyone listen to you? Don't you think you need a little more time to dirty that brain a little more, before its good again? If you can't or won't answer the questions, can one your paralegals here that can't spell answer for you? I wonder how they will apply texts to this one.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
22:31:44
Comments
12 Aug 2002 Time: 21:51:50 ////////// How will we reply? With love of course! we love you inspite of you!

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
22:34:36
Comments
claudine-I am begining to have grave doubts about what we are doing here. (I may fair better going back to being on my own.) To just address one "policy" without addressing the lack of a "right" to question it should be enough of an example of my point. When an entire house is on fire to just put out the flame in one room does not due much. Is your question "Freedom from what?" If so the answer is "Preconcived Notions."-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
22:47:02
Comments
Ahhhhh another loving witness to share all that love! I am sure that you are just trying to ‘beat' us into submission, that's okay you do what you have to do. You can come in here and post anything that you like, If you feel the need to, go right on ahead, but remember, we are not the only ones that read your post! We can't read into your heart so what we think doesn't really matter now does it? Of course it doesn't! So don't you worry about anything, if it's in your heart the one looking and seeing will know! If you genuinely feel the need to consort with the apostates, even if it's to try and break the spirit, then you go right on ahead, you can go to your next meeting and maybe they will announce that you surpassed your quota in field service with these repeated post! Oh, boy won't that be grand indeed! Everyone will be so proud of you won't they? Of course they will! Your children will say oh what a wonderful parent we have! For our parent went into the apostates dwelling not caring about the little children at all! Only caring about being a bully!!!! They will sing your praises to the heavens you know? OF COURSE YOU DO! Keep up the good work, since the post you've made, even though a repeat, are surly your ticket to HIS kingdom isn't it?

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
22:50:21
Comments
Bill, thank you for this site. The truth will be recognized despite the efforts of policy laden JW leaders. I would like all readers to know that Ramon Castro of Canyon Country CA is a child molester and his balls should be cut off. His phone number is (661) 252-3674. Call him and tell him what you think. His address is 29790 Wisteria Valley Rd., Canyon Country, CA near Santa Clarita in Los Angeles county. A victim of his.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
22:52:07
Comments
I have done extensive research on JW. This website is a real service. Stay the course and pursue the truth. Lawman4634 @ aol.com

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
23:15:17
Comments
Buster - last post from disgruntled JW with 20 questions for Bill - take him on! This one is worthy of some contempt.************** JW WITH 20 QUESTIONS: I suppose the stories from the Abused Lambs are worthless if Bill didn't sit on the judical committee???? I suppose Barbara Anderson fabricated her story about the 23,000 plus files, just to go through the "fun" of getting disfellowshipped? I think she is 62...yep 62 years old with no other worries so she has to create some. I suppose that all the stories here are just conjured up for Brother 20 questions to blow off. Brother 20 questions: I have one question for you. Have you read all the stories? Or are you a pedophile???? No decent man can read these stories and not be compelled to do something or at least be horrified. Well, I had two questions really. From One of Bill's paralegals who hopes that Buster can do some justice here.

Remote User:

Date:
12 Aug 2002
Time:
23:54:34
Comments
This a rebuttal to the person who suggests that Bill Bowen was involved in judicial child abuse cover-ups. I'm not a paralegal just as you are not a Jehovah's Witness. Ther is also a thing called Webster's Dictionaly on-line...... so spelling shoud be up to par. Spaming is childish, redundancy is well......redundant. I believe B. Bowen spoke out, to his JW standing detriment, when he saw cases of child molestation cover up. I also believe this site should be for those who support "the truth", not as the WTBTS states it, but by individuals who have done hours of research on these matters. I would like to hear accounts from those who truely feel they have been wronged by policies set up by the WTBTS Since this is a public site, eveyone is entitled to their opinion, so I'm voicing mine. If you want to endlessly blather nonsense please go to your local JW congragation. On this site you just get scrolled down untill some meaningful discussion is posted. TY for stories, worthwile discusion, and the Watchtower Observer for giving light to things I was once blinded to. I give support to anyone who is still a Witness and has the courage to research for themselves matters made secret to the organization.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
00:16:19
Comments
Sequia: You said freedom of religion. I took that to mean the 1st amendment of the constitution of USA. Misunderstood you. You are talking about the lack of freedom within the WTS???? Yes? Obviously, this is the root of the problem, never would I deny that. So, when a brother JW comes here with half on open heart "speaking openly"...I should reach out. Ray Franz and Bill Bowen, Barbara Anderson all well respected, dedicated witnessess could not make a dent with the GB, then who can??? By their (Bill etal) stance, a few witnesses will hear and many VICTIMS will have a place to not feel alone, and a few will be saved from this ever happening to them. Even a few will win lawsuits too. Ten years you say you have been reaching out - and you have given up. I say if one person is spared it is worth it. I can't put out the fire, but by God if someone wants out we can be here to "catch" them. The fact that I no longer belong or subscribe to the WTS means that I am no longer in the burning building. Or fanning the flames***********I might be confused about what you are saying. I don't have that much hate left in me anymore and I don't have much "causes" left either. I don't want to save anyone - that belongs to Jesus. I am here to comfort. I am not here to convert or be converted. I have had enough of that to last a lifetime.******************What is meaningful cannot be ripped away from a person - even if it seems meaningless to me. I want to stand calm (which i need to practice) in the face of lies and speak a quiet truth. I can model a lifestyle that is not based on lies and still love Jehovah and not want to destroy the WTS, even if they are wicked. I haven't the strength, it isn't my calling. I would like to open up temporary housing for anyone who needs it. I would like to put an ad in the paper to advertise silentlambs. I would like to do lots of things and maybe I will. For now, I sort out what I can, and lend support here when I can. Pissing in the wind? I don't know. I really don't. I am a tired woman - not ashamed of this either. I have been beaten down once too many times. This old girl needs rest - I have earned it.I have children and grandchildren to nurture. I can't save anyone and my charity begins at home first. But I will reach out to any JW who supports silentlambs - to me that is the purpose of this web site. There are lots of sites for destroying the WTS - sophisticated, well thought out etc...I understand silentlambs to be a place of comfort for those who need it, be it spiritual, practical, legal advice they are not alone and they are not silence here. Rambling on here got to go...work to do. Not sure why we are not communicating here. C.E.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
00:17:09
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
00:21:12
Comments
Buster, are you the man? Hurry up and get back here! They need you! Are you the official spokesman? One of the interns here needs some assistance. I'll ask again: What has Bill Bowen been up to the last 20 years, 100 judicial committees? Any child abuse cases in his folder? 100 judicial committees. WOW. Impressive. Any child abuse cases? No? Not even one? In 20 years? Oh wait, yes, YES, a few, no, wait, more than a few. What, when, where, how? Did you go to the police? How many times over 20 years? You couldn't? Why? Brainwashed? Let's establish Bill Bowen's record, make sure he's squeaky clean, and take it from there. After all, wouldn't the folks here like to know? Let me see a show of hands. Oooooooooooooooh I would love to cross examine Bill. You too Buster.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
00:22:27
Comments
i wanna know to

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
01:20:42
Comments
Unsigned: Pugnacious, moi? No, not really, I just can't stand to listen to to another JW sidestep their personal responsibility with that 'vengence is mine' or 'wait on Jehovah' malarky - all stuff to keep the sheep in line. I got plenty of that when I was growing up - Franklin, MA. I had more than a couple run-ins with the elders - independant thought and all that. My first-hand experience with the topic was via a friend that reported her dad. It turns out that her mother knew, and defended him to the elders and the other congregation members. He got DFed, she was discouraged from reporting to the cops and never did (as far as I know). - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
01:21:50
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
01:39:20
Comments
Claudine-(1)dedicated witnessess could not make a dent with the GB, then who can?(answer) Only you can choose who will “dent” the power and authority you choose to submit to.(2) Ten years you say you have been reaching out - and you have given up.(Answer) No, I did not ever say anything of the sort. (Why would I be here?) I said I hope you remember my warnings as I have watched the nature of your postings change. For 10 years I believed that with a constancy of love the JW's in my life would stop being so cruel. I was foolish. Here is a story…An old Indian woman found a snake in the dead of winter half frozen and so weak from the cold. She took it home and nursed it back to health. Once it was strong again it coiled and began to strike the old woman pushing its venom deep into her. As she lay on the floor dying she asked the snake “why would you do this?” “I helped you when you were in trouble.” The snake replied, “Look lady you knew I was a snake when you took me in.” Be prepared to be burned if you think that you are going to “save” a JW. Most truly do not wish to be "saved". They have it all figured out. Have respect for or at least remember that. Have you read Hassen's new book? I have reservations about it but, if you want to pursue fence “perched” witnesses you should read it. “Fearless love” is a better choice in my opinion but it is only Anne Sanderson's personal story. There is so much baggage that is involved with this issue (rape and battery) and “cultism” issues. (That word “cultism” includes more than religion.) Chew on the burning building for awhile before you say if you're still in the fire. (Only you will know) I do send money to SL and send info to newspapers; I have placed Ads and talk to people. (We both write a lot) I have been commenting on the way you have been concerned about the JWD's who come here. One thing about them is they are tough skinned and can defend themselves. What no JW has yet to realize is I am not their enemy. We assumed in WWII that every Germany was a Nazi and wanted to kill us. (Was not true) We see all of Islam as crazy terrorists that want to blow us up. (Not true) JW's see the entire world as controlled by Satan and we are his right hand man. (Nope) We are in control of what we do. However, we might be intimidated, threatened, promised, things that are not Satan's or ours to sell or take. Love is not compatible with fear. Look at the sins that God hates in proverbs. Turn them around (I.e. blessings that God loves) and ask yourself is this what I do?-Sleep tight…SEQ////Oh ya and BUSTER I hope you are on my side:)

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
01:50:35
Comments
" A Respect for Authority" BB here. Hello. Looking over info for this weeks No.1 talk, "Why Respect Authority?"(w00 8/pp.4-7) Those giving or working up that talk might feel good to point out that in many state's, sex offenders must register their residence so all the public can be safe. Truly we want to be grateful for the police and the courts that have the authority to punish criminals... in order to protect the community. But in what areas of our life, as true Christians, is respect for authority called for? Romans 13:3-7 Paul here explains that there would not be any human authority if God did not permit it. In that sense the superior authorities have a relative position within the framework of God's purpose. It therefore follows that "he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God." Pedophiles and sex offenders practice what is bad have ample reason to fear the authorities' right to act as " an avenger", since the governments do so as "God's minister." ...... Surly if we were the victim of a hanses act by some sexual predator, it would be proper to work with the proper authorities to see that one is punished. We should not hide this for that would be taking a stand against the arrangement of God. Paul concludes his reasoning by saying; "There is therefore compelling reason for you people to be in subjection, not only on account of that wrath but also on account of your conscience." So with good conscience, we can support seeing a sex offender being reported and put_away.... and in this way one may receive praise from the superior authorities... and still be within the framework of God's purpose. The last paragraph says; "While respect for authority is rapidly disappearing in the world, as Christians we recognize that proper authorities in the community, in the family, and in the Christian congregation are established for our benefit. Respect for authority is essential for our well-being physically, emotionally, and spiritually, By accepting and respecting such God-given authority, we will be safeguarded by the greatest authorities, _Jehovah God and Jesus Christ_for our eternal good. _Psalm 119:165; Hebrews 1:9. As a side note, hopefully, lawyers don't mess things up in the way they explain this to the worldly press as of late... considering how others may perceive us. Could any of our actions or words be misunderstood and thus be a cause for stumbling others? We will have to wait and wonder if their actions will prove true today for the Christian congregation, to be "a pillar and support of the truth."(1Timothy 3:15) .... That Bible tells all people, whether believers or unbelievers, to have "A Respect for Authority" yes a respect for civil authority.... is ESSENTIAL... for all citizens... BB

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
01:55:53
Comments
20 questions: First off, no, I am not anyone's spokesman. But I would like to discuss, politely, the series of questions written for Bill. The one that claimed to be a paralegal sensed the first point you made: you were calling Bill's credibility into question because of his past complicity with the organization and processes he fights so sternly against. Believe it or not, I consider that a valid point. If Bill were making this point by himself and failing to substantiate it, your point could carry the day. Nonetheless, Bill does not make his point on his own, as the 'paralegal' asserts, and you would need to push back one heck of a lot testimony and evidence to invalidate the point he is trying to make. The next point I want to make is much more interesting: It is a very typical cult defenses to personally attack the bearer of criticism. It feels like a strong defense to those making it. But those hearing it can recognize the irrelavance of the argument. It does not matter how many judicial committees Bill served on and how many coverups he may have participated in. The question is: Do you doubt that he has close-up knowledge of the events he describes? If you did, I think you would be expressing your opinion differently. You would be addressing where and why you think he is wrong, or lying. But you don't - you attack him. I think everyone but you can see your weakness here. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
02:27:54
Comments
EVERYONE: Please Ignore This 20-Questions Bozo-The-Clown (or is it Ronald McDonald?). If this wise-acre REALLY WANTED ANSWERS TO HIS/HER 20 QUESTIONS, they would write or call Bill Bowen himself. That is what a SINCERELY INTERESTED person would do. Therefore, it is OBVIOUS this person has no interest WHATSOEVER in the answers to these questions. He/She is merely trying to stir up commotion here. REPEAT: IGNORE THE CLOWN, let him/her do their OWN homework and spend a dime and call B.Bowen him/herself. His phone # is all over this site. -- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
02:34:23
Comments
BOZO (20 Questions, who is also likely The ABC Kid) is probably none other than the infamous troll, FRED HALL (a/k/a Fred HELL) who was recently BANNED from Jehovahs-Witnesses.com for CONDUCT UNBECOMING a TROLL (much LESS a CHRISTIAN; i.e., persecuting Jesika for one thing). If it isn't FRED-the-DREAD, then it's his CLONE, same advice applies: IGNORE. --- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
03:03:10
Comments
To the ABC Kid: I know the alphabet, too, and here's how the song goes: A -- Baby -- Child -- Does -- Everything -- For -- Gratifying -- Him/Herself -- In -- Juvenile -- Kiddie -- Limelight! -- ME -- NOW -- Or -- Pay -- 'Quz -- RugRats -- Sanctify -- Themselves -- Using -- Vain -- Ways!! -- Xcite -- Your-- Zelf (and, X-it -- You're -- Zilch.) ----- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
03:11:15
Comments
Sorry gang, I couldn't resist the ABC alphabet thing... A little exercise of the brain now and then is kinda fun. :-) -- BTW, Mr./Mrs. 20 Questions/ABC Kid/JWD, or whoever you are, if you're a hurting puppy we really would like to help, but you gotta tone down the obnoxiousness. I see Buster gave you a sincere reply. Wasn't that nice of Buster? I think so. And, frankly, I could care less if he had sat thru 300 cases and never spoke up. He REDEMMED HIMSELF by coming forward and cracking open the conspiracy, which is a thousand times more noble than the GB "holier than thou attitude" members have done. I still say you should call Bowen directly if you REALLY want answers. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
03:14:41
Comments
To the person who wrote: "I suppose Barbara Anderson fabricated her story about the 23,000 plus files, just to go through the "fun" of getting disfellowshipped? I think she is 62...yep 62 years old with no other worries so she has to create some." ----- Ain't that the truth!!! Like any of us NEEDS to create MORE problems for ourselves than life already throws at us! Very good point to bring out. Thanks! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
03:19:17
Comments
I SECOND THESE MOTIONS written by someone I'll call "Rebuttal: MOTION # 1: "If you want to endlessly blather nonsense please go to your local JW congregation." -- LOL! :-) and MOTION #2: "I give support to anyone who is still a Witness and has the courage to research for themselves matters made secret to the organization." --- AGREE 100%. Thanks, Rebuttal, for putting that sincere "challenge" on the board for all honest-hearted JWs. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
03:21:10
Comments
DITTO DITTO to what Nan wrote to Bill & Sheila: "We are proud of you for standing at to the mighty opposer. You are HERO's in our eyes. Nan"

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
03:24:37
Comments
DIRECTIONS from THE NEW YORK TIMES on writing letters to them ----- I sent my letters tonight and this is the automated reply with helpful advice: "Thank you for your letter to The New York Times. If your letter is selected for publication, we will contact you before printing it. But because of the volume of letters received, we regret that we are not able to respond to all submissions, other than by this automated reply. --- Letters should be no longer than 150 words and may be shortened to fit allotted space. They must be exclusive to The Times and refer to an article that has appeared within the last seven days. Letters must include the writer's address and daytime and evening phone numbers (not for publication). --- For a complete list of departmental e-mail addresses, please write to directory@nytimes.com. --- Sincerely, The New York Times ----- All email addy's for The NY Times was already posted here in the Guestbook yesterday 8/12 (I think it was yesterday). /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:04:45
Comments
Hey, people, this site really is a great place! It reminds me of being at the farmer's market -- all sorts of colorful "Fruits and Veggies and Nuts" stopping by and having a chat. It must be like the marketplaces of the first century where people gathered, but cyber-style. They gathered at various times of the day or night to share a thought, a feeling, or to ask a question. This is a Good Thing! We have everything from the Older Wiser Ones, to the Town Criers and Town Whiners. We have Scholarly Types to Absent-Minded Professors. We have ABC Kids causing their usual mischief, and then we have Tourists and Transients, some who come and stay, some who pass on through. We have the Pained and Tormented and Abused to the Healthy, Wealthy and Wise. We have Spiritual Doctors, Motherly Counselors, Fatherly Advisors, and our Inspirators, too. We have our Jesters, Satirists and Critics. We have our Judges and our Juries. We even have an Executioner or Two (usually the ones with the hoods over their heads, easy to spot, nameless). We have a few Teenagers, still a little roudy but not near as childish as the ABC Kids. We have lots of Writers and some Reporters for our "town" paper. I say, Come One, Come All! We all have ONE THING in common: Shoulders to Cry On, Shoulders to Lean On. WELCOME to SILENT LAMBS!!! The Hearts of Our City Gates are Open to All! (The Walking Wounded get First Priority, however!) --- /SLC (PS: If I left out anyone, please add!)

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:05:38
Comments
Thanks SEQ, who has offered to buy us all a beer. (I don't do beer, way too bloating, but I'm good for a coffee anytime!) -- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:06:23
Comments
The snake replied, “Look lady you knew I was a snake when you took me in.” ----- LOL! Ahhhh, I love a good chuckle! Good one, SEQ! Thanks!/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:07:17
Comments
C.E.! Beautifully stated and agree, me too!!! : "I want to stand calm (which i need to practice) in the face of lies and speak a quiet truth." ----- Also, I'm with you/feel the same exact way: "I am a tired woman - not ashamed of this either. I have been beaten down once too many times. This old girl needs rest - I have earned it." ----- Also, I feel this is right, your description of this SL site: "But I will reach out to any JW who supports silentlambs - to me that is the purpose of this web site. There are lots of sites for destroying the WTS - sophisticated, well thought out etc...I understand silentlambs to be a place of comfort for those who need it." ----- Hang in there, CE! And I also agree I think you and SEQ are getting your wires a little crossed the same way Buster and Rich got wires-crossed. I didn't see the problems in any of you guys' four posts, but somehow the others did. Funny how some people read into something what others do not. Must be a full moon out there or something... --- Your comments are great, keep them coming! Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:14:58
Comments
Hi Conchita and welcome. I think you misunderstood what THE MOLE was saying. THE MOLE is on OUR SIDE. What he meant, I think, is that the WTS is trying to REDUCE THE EXPOSURE (to the truth) and they even go so far as to SELECT THE TALKS which the JWs are to use in their congregations, and in this way the society feels they can SILENCE BILL (i.e., by not letting the JWs in the congs HEAR the TRUE info). /SLC --- (THE MOLE had written "...by reducing the exposure and select talks that we are to do, lowers the feeling of guilt. This is how Bill will be silenced...THE MOLE***" And Conchita replied: "Ever hear the saying, "The truth hurts?" == Mole, why SHOULD Bill be SILENCED?"

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:17:45
Comments
At least grade school will start in a month. ----- LOL! I do love the humor you guys show in your writing! LONG LIVE HUMOR!!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:24:38
Comments
I think your web site is excellent and long overdue I left the organisation as a direct result of two seperare peodophile cover ups. I hope you are able to help many more young people and help to stop this evil abuse carrying on

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:25:55
Comments
To the person who wrote to silly/shallow/ABC nonsense: "When you want to play with the big boys WE ARE OVER AT www.jehovahs-witness.com" ----- Man Oh Man & LOL!!! is THAT the TRUTH! The Big Boys REALLY ARE over at J-W.com. When anyone is ready for THE BIG CITY Farmer's Market METROPOLIS, that's definitely the place to go! ---/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:29:33
Comments
Even tho no longer a JW, I still believe in the devil and his wicked spirit creatures, and I also still believe in Jehovah and Jesus Christ and Holy Spirit and the angels. Without a doubt in my early days as a JW, Holy Spirit showed me things in my apt. I needed to trash, things that were right in front of my face and I didn't even realize it, and that was immediately after a specific prayer about such things. (Hey, it made a believer out of me!) There were creepier things that happened, too, but I won't go into that. I am also ticked off at the GB and the WTBTS in general for their behavior and lies and two-faced-hypocrisy. --- I like Rich (agree with what Soapbox said), and I also like Buster and what he writes. Now everybody kiss and make up, OK? (OK, OK, the guys can "shake hands" and make up.) /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:31:49
Comments
EXCELLENT JMD, who coined the phrase "SPIRITUAL SILENT LAMBS"! You get the Literary Award for the Day! I love that! Thanks! /SLC ----- (JMD wrote: " -- those of us who have found that we have been deceived, realize that WE TOO, are SPIRITUAL SILENTLAMBS!!! ... From my personal experience, talking about it helps us to heal. My deep love for all you fellow silentlambs, of the physical, and of the spiritual.")

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:34:18
Comments
THIS GETS THE "RUNNER UP" LITERARY AWARD FOR THE DAY: "The beauty of this site is that it speaks heart to heart. This as opposed to head to head. I like that." ----- Dear Heart-2-Heart, I LIKE THAT TOO! Thanks! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:49:36
Comments
Someone asked: "So does the dismissal of the letter to the GB by Bill mean that they (the GB) are not guilty of the charges presented or are they just above the laws (Burdens) that they place on everyone else?" ----- Dear Someone: I believe you answered your own question. IMO the GB feels they are above everyone else, and even if they are admitting their guilt to each other behind closed doors, they are showing by their actions they have NO INTENTIONS of admitting to it. It's like Defendants on trial who opt NOT to take the witness stand, for fear the cross-examination by the Prosecutor will bring out tooooo many details for which the Defendant does NOT wish to answer to. And what will the Jury decide from the Defendant NOT taking the stand? I Rest My Case. Signed, Della Street/Paralegal.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:53:56
Comments
I didn't know we had paralegals posting on here, as 20-Questions was ranting about... I couldn't resist making a funny above about Della Street. LOLOL! Having a good laugh here, working the Night Shift, holding down the Silent Lambs Fort until you Early Birds take over in the morn. Love ya/Della :-) a/k/a Silent Lambs Cheerleader a/k/a SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:56:13
Comments
Holy Mary Mother of Jesus ----- OMG! Crack me up! Another funny! Thanks to whoever wrote that, from me, born and raised a Catholic-turned-JW-turned-SLC.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
04:57:03
Comments
BEST SL SLOGAN of THE MONTH goes to LINDA! who wrote: "Let them post, let them banter, it won't change the facts and THEY CANNOT ESCAPE THE FACTS ANYMORE. WE HAVE ONLY JUST BEGUN." ----- That sounds so stirring it should go down in the Silent Lambs History Books!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
05:03:47
Comments
Yes, yes, I AGREE with Claudine who wrote: "BROTHERS PLEASE DO NOT STOP POSTING HERE - WE NEED YOU VERY MUCH!!!!" ----- I, too, appreciate hearing what the "older men" elders, etc. have to say. Keep it coming! We'd love to see you bro's and people like The Mole get the changes rolling from the inside out. If ALL elders in the entire USA, at least, showed up for the March on 9/27/02, in order to meet with their fellow bro's, the GB about this, could the GB DF the entire roster of elders in the country? (Well, I suppose they COULD, but WOULD they be that dumb?) I've heard they already have a shortage of elders and are having to appoint and give more responsibilities to MS's. Oh well, please keep posting at least, even if you aren't ready to face the GB on this issue. Somebody needs to, though, since they Axed Bill in order to NOT have to meet with him. Who will take up THE TORCH FOR HIM???? (in order to go inside Bethel HQ and question the GB face to face???) --- OK, I'm dreaming... /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
05:08:36
Comments
Sheila, thanks for the experience you shared. People don't give kids enough credit to see what they SEE and know what they KNOW. KIDS NOTICE THINGS!!! They PICK UP on things! They are more SENSITIVE to environment, emotions, nuances, etc. It's the crusted over, too stressed & busy Grown-Ups who do not catch things. So true what you wrote: "Funny at 8 years old this "friend" gave me the hee bee jeebies, I saw the anger of his daughter and the way he playfully taunted her. But all the adults chose to look the other way????" --- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
05:12:17
Comments
BINGO & THANK YOU to whoever contributed the 7/15/02 Watchtower study article, page 10, paragraph 1, and pages 13-14, paragraph 18, and who then asked, "Does this apply only to the reader and not the DIRECTORS and WRITERS?" ----- YES YES YES! Why doesn't 20-questions concern him/herself with QUESTIONS LIKE THESE!!! And now GB, WE ASK YOU: DOES IT APPLY TO YOU OR NOT??? PROVE IT. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
05:19:28
Comments
TO VICTIM of Ramon Castro, WELCOME! I applaud you for posting your abuser's name!!! I think all the abused lambs should do so. I already posted my pedophile uncle's name on here months ago (not a JW, though, but what the hay. He's still a bona fide pedophile). However, may I make a suggestion? You suggested people call/write your abuser. That is fine as long as they do it only once (and go easy on the death threats!). If anyone makes consistent calls, they can be traced by the phone company. I would suggest using a pay phone or anonymous letter, depending on how blunt you write your feelings. (Wear gloves when writing and don't lick the envelope - DNA! Maybe a postcard? That way all mail handlers between your town and his can read it!) Just an idea. AND THANKS AGAIN FOR POSTING!!! Hope you are well and hanging in there. /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
05:27:16
Comments
BTW, my OTHER ABUSER's (RAPIST) name is JAMES J. MORAN, JR. (also not a JW, at least he wasn't back then - we were Catholics back then). I have no idea of his address or phone now, but the abuse occurred in JAX., FL, 1964. THIS IS NOT LIBEL OR SLANDER EITHER, because I AM THE VICTIM/SURVIVOR!!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
08:58:57
Comments
I still need to find someone that knows about child pornography with in the Jehovah's Witness Org. Please e-mail me @ cosmicjill@planetkc.com. Thanks so much, jill

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
09:12:24
Comments
JILL: Have you called/emailed Bill Bowen directly? That's a start. (re: the child pornography). /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
09:44:00
Comments
No, I'm not that ABC kid. Good try. Quite frankly, I think he should be a little more constructive. He did post some funny jokes, though. And I am not Fred Hall, whoever that is. WOW folks, you're good with names. Brother 20 Questions, Bozo-The-Clown, Ronald McDonald lol - Buster, I'll post again what I originally wrote, since my follow-up post to clarify what I meant did you no good. Here you go: “Bill Bowen – I have a question for you. How many sexual abuse cover-ups were YOU involved with? You claim to have served in 100 judicial committees. In 20 years in appointed positions, and 300 years of you being a JW in good standing, how many cover-ups were there under YOUR watch? 10? 20? 300? None? If your answer is “none”, does that mean that in 20 years in appointed service, there were NO cases? WOW 20 years is a great run. But if you were involved in a cover-up, which I'm sure you'll never admit to, why don't you turn yourself in at the nearest police station? Would you even admit it? This is all so perplexing, the fact that you were in an appointed position for 20 years (or was it 43?) but you STAYED there, if there were other cases. Wouldn't that make you a criminal, as elders here are so often referred to? What, you were brainwashed? Is that your excuse? Oh, I see. If you were brainwashed for 43 years, why should anyone listen to you? Don't you think you need a little more time to dirty that brain a little more, before its good again? If you can't or won't answer the questions, can one your paralegals here that can't spell answer for you? I wonder how they will apply texts to this one”. Maybe THIS time you will stay on topic, and give me some straight answers. The more you sidestep, the more curious your responses seem to me. These are simple questions, after all. Compared to some of the ones that are devoid of any human intellect that frequently appear here. And I DID write to Bill Bowen. Right here, for all to see. Doesn't he like public debates? Ignore me all you want SLC. Engaging in a debate with you would be uninteresting, since you rely on name-calling, as evidenced by 99 percent of your posts. I want the more intelligent ones, like Buster. Wish I could talk to him one-on-one. I get the feeling he and I would at least walk away respecting each other's opinion.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
10:06:20
Comments
Hi, Bill...and regards to your lovely wife and fam. Sorry I haven't been in touch....have had carpet burns on my chin, but I'm learning to overcome 'em.... I just got the news this morning about your disf'ing...Bill, just remember THEY cannot separate you from God's love, no matter what name God actually goes by (I find it difficult to believe that a loving God would be anal-retentive about the name with which those that love Him address Him). You, Bill, have done a remarkable thing for a lot of very appreciative people...with a little help from your friends...like Randy and Kent, et al...and even better than that is the fact that THIS IS OF EVERLASTING BENEFIT TO THOSE SUFFERING ABUSE, even far into the future. Of course, I saw most of the Dateline expose' and was applauding from the sidelines for yall....did anybody ever tell you how much you look like that guy on "Law and Order"..the main prosecutor on the TV show? Well, you do. And just LOOK at ALL that you've accomplished!!! Anyway, just thought I'd "pop in" and say welcome back to the human race....it's a more relaxed way of life...yall might hafta take "breathing lessons" now...:D Noel Parsons (stoomdormer@yahoo.com)

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
10:43:55
Comments
so buster, you grew up as a JW child and later had run-ins with the elders. i might have guessed. bitter and twisted? you never know i might agree entirely with how you feel. maybe if you read my original post, not the one about spirits, you'll agree with what i said. i'm just trying to defend my cong, not the society. i agree that my reasoning on spirits wasn't good, but i know how i feel about my cong. if i thought holy spirit wasn't there then i'm sure I'd know about it. but then that comes down to faith. some of us have it, some don't, and that would include so called 'true JWs' as Linda T put it. you seem to view me in the same light as all other robot JWs, who 'face Brooklyn when worshiping'. i would love to know if 'true JW = true Christian'. i think the answer lies in 'true to what and to whom?' Rich

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
11:55:41
Comments
It's my opinion that the "policy" is to isolate the person who has problems (not just child molestation issues) and to make the pained person believe that they're the only one having a problem. So, one walks around feeling hurt, alone, violated and ashamed -- impotent. After YEARS, one gets the confidence of a friend and learns that he or she (frequently, it's a SHE) had the same experience in the same situation and they were made to feel as if it was their fault and no one else has that problem. The Bible wants us to RESOLVE issues. Matthew 5 and Matthew 18's recommendation is to make peace with one's brother and to win them. How can this be accomplished when even (or ESPECIALLY) elders don't follow scriptural advise in settling matters (in particular, QUICKLY), do not respect the steps in settling matters, get involved before the appropriate steps are taken by individuals, violate confidentiality (a sister told me she overheard one elder telling another out-of-area elder the details of a matter even though he wasn't in their congregation and it wasn't his business), become prejudiced because they're pre-judging, etc.? This procedure will not always be done properly or successfully but if it's hardly done at all, how can anyone learn that's the way to handle things? There's a lot of gossip going around in the congregations. Also, it's spread to friends of friends in other congregations and, maybe, to other states or countries. In my opinion, no one should be accused of gossip until they get ALL the gossip under control in each congregation. Right now, accusations of gossip seem to be done when it's convenient even though it's very prevalent in everyone's congregation. One needs to know what is gossip and what isn't -- when it's gossip and when it isn't.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
12:02:08
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
12:40:31
Comments
dear brother 20-questions. There are ways for you to contact Bill Bowen. look around on this web-site for the e-mail addy for Bill. There is no one here that will presume to answer those questions for him. We can give you our answers and opinions but that is obviously not what you want. Bill is a very busy man but he is also a kind thoughtful man too. I am sure that if you have a sincere desire to learn the answers to troubling questions he will take time out to answer you. But if your desire is to rip and tear at him like a crazed animal then please rethink your position. It is not attractive. ugly is as ugly does. ***That's my two cents**Loris

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
13:05:37
Comments
Loris – Rip and tear at him? I have a question for you. Wouldn't you like to know? No? You don't care? You loooooove to pose “thinkers” for active JW's, to think about the history of the WT, to question the teachings of the WT, etc., etc. God forgive when someone asks YOU to think about what your messiah has been up to. IGNORE HIM, CALL HIM NAMES, GIVE HIM BILL'S NUMBER, ETC., ETC, you say. Now I say to you: If you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen. As long as there are questions for us, there will be some questions for you. And yes, I'd like to hear your opinions, don't put words into my mouth, saying that I do not want your opinions. Of course, your opinion will be chock full of miracle wheat, mansions, etc. What will be missing is an honest answer. One like this “Yeah, 20 years is a long time. Fill us in Bill, so we won't keep hearing the questions”.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
13:34:44
Comments
******The mole**********Do not argue Religion with the Witnesses, for his doctrines are built upon a misuse of the bible, texts and passages. bible IS used like building blocks to back up fake conclusions. Another dont is not to engage in a conversation about present events with the Witnesses. Dont buy literature or accept anything they claim to be free, because walking up to your door is how they make the most of it. Be courteous but firm in not wanting to except thier books or having them come back for further conversation, do not answer them if they delve into your religion or personal lives this information is repeated and written in notes for the next incounter.....A two edged sword which they misused did what it could be expected to do. It cut us off from normalcy, and from the personal relationship from Christ. As you have read by the many useless banter here in this sight that many regular and active people with the Organization have became slaves and to its routine, and thus lead also themselves into a spirtiual captivity.....those whose ignorance is now well documented should remain silent and learn how those of us has learned to live with much sacrifice. Being that I am a minersterial servant who disagrees with alot of policies from the Organization so it is my place to educate the benighted ridiculars of my faith to see why those vile humans have had the opportunity to come into our Kingdom Halls and disgrace the children....Clearly one has not read anything I have written in the past on this sight to question me on the most silly of things, let logic be posed for me to answer not trivial things that waste all of our time..................THE MOLE**********

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
13:57:40
Comments
This is fun. This went from “Lets get them” and “This is war” etc., etc., to “Ignore them” and “Do not argue religion with them (sic)”. Hey I'm curious, did you all go to the same school? You can't spell. Here's some examples from the mole “except” instead of “accept”, “thier” instead of “their”, “minersterial” instead of “ministerial” and the kicker “benighted ridiculars” instead of “benighted ridiculers”. And that's just the mole. The leaders of your movement can't spell, that's embarrassing. Mole, I sincerely doubt that you are a Ministerial Servant. If you are, you're not standing up for your beliefs and making them heard in your hall, as they would remove you faster that SLC can fire off a misspelled post. If you have voiced your opinion, then that would make you a liar about being an MS. Catch 22.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
14:36:52
Comments
To the one that says he is not abc kid. Let's suppose that Bill Bowen witnessed the abuse and was even involved in cover ups of whatever in the Congregations of Jeh. Witnessess Congregations.The fact is that he is not doing it now.He fights against it and wants justice done to all that come forward. If he is guilty of anything the Organization of JW would have accused him of that a long time ago. I don't think they can produce anything incriminating about him. But who knows.. we all were guilty of something in the WT.But he is definitely a good man. As for you ? You just admited your own guilt and participation in all you suspect Bill was involved in and that IS criminal! You my friend are still steeped in all that the WT produces which is basicaly all Evil and punishable by the Law of man and God. rmk

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
14:44:28
Comments
Brother 20 Questions: I see no particular reason Bill Bowen should answer your questions. I had questions for my body of elders, for the circuit overseer, for the district overseer and for the GB regarding Child Abuse and no one answered me. The Silentlambs organization has been unable to received answers to ANY SINGLE question asked to the policy makers at WBTS. So what makes you special?

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
14:55:23
Comments
Catch 22 .. .I have always believed that poor grammar and spelling are signs that the person professing to be a Jehovah's Witnesses is telling the truth. Many Witness children are home schooled and few received any additional secular education until recently. Regardless of your view of this matter---proper etiquette and simple "good form" should preclude you from making below the belt comments. Again THIS GUESTBOOK is NOT the place to discuss doctrine, come to jehovahs-witness.com IF YOU ACTUALLY WANT TO DISCUSS and not just ridicule. NAN

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
15:07:46
Comments
Interesting. This is not the place to discuss doctrine, huh? Here's a definition of doctrine: 1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma. 2. A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent. 3. A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy. 4. Archaic. Something taught; a teaching. The two witness rule is a doctrine.... You seem to discuss doctrine all the time. Practice what you preach. And answer my questions, before I repost them for your benefit.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
15:23:04
Comments
What kind of person tries to belittle a man who helps innocent people who have been harmed? Jesus healed a man on the Sabbath and asked the Pharisees "Is it lawful on the sabbath to cure or not?" Luke 14:3 Even the Pharisees knew enough to keep silent.**********From Claudine directed to 20 questions. No answer required!!!

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
15:23:49
Comments
It has helped me get over the shock, and grow, hereing everyones opinion. Larry

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
15:43:34
Comments
Catch 22: . . . .I don't understand why you are so upset and threatening. However I will reiterate..A guestbook by nature of its format is not the place to DISCUSS doctrine. People may post essays on doctrine, they may defend a certain doctrine, they may question doctrine, but for a line-by-line discussion this is not the place. Why? Because the page formatting, etc was not designed for that purpose. At JWD each argument can be addressed under a single topic and all comments made will pertain to that issue. Here any comment on any question will be included with your discussion. Do you understand my point? Why do you need to take it so personally? NAN

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
15:44:11
Comments
Catch 22: . . . .I don't understand why you are so upset and threatening. However I will reiterate..A guestbook by nature of its format is not the place to DISCUSS doctrine. People may post essays on doctrine, they may defend a certain doctrine, they may question doctrine, but for a line-by-line discussion this is not the place. Why? Because the page formatting, etc was not designed for that purpose. At JWD each argument can be addressed under a single topic and all comments made will pertain to that issue. Here any comment on any question will be included with your discussion. Do you understand my point? Why do you need to take it so personally? NAN

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
15:53:56
Comments
Catch 22: you come from a place (WTS) where all the questions have all the same answers and if not your booted out. Here, we have different questions and each person has a different view and answer. Even as to the purpose of this site!!!! You were answered by many people here. However, because we didn't answer the "correct" answer, you keep asking again and again. You asked your questions, and we gave you the answer: we don't care what Bill "did", we care about what he is doing NOW. That is called discussion between peers and/or HEARING THE ANSWER, also known as listening. ********you want to control the questions and the answers - can't do that here, only at the KH is that allowed and encouraged! Try discussion by responding to our answers without ridicule. I asked yesterday if you have read the letters from so many ones who have been harmed - have you? If so, what do you feel about them? Claudine/soapbox

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
15:57:23
Comments
****THE MOLE****spelling? so what? did you get the point or was it over your head? In typing these things happen...speak out? why? to be removed to soon? i have family involved and you didnt know that? read more and be educated.....THE MOLE

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
16:24:41
Comments
I thought you all might enjoy this, I was referred to this today on a message board in response to my posts.........Here it is: Every so often we get so stuck with specifics and the latest WT scandals or doctrinal nuances that it's good to get back to the basics. That is the purpose of this thread. I cannot count the times that, when dubs arguments are demolished with quotes from their own literature and practices, they resort to this statement in sheer desperation: Well, at least weve got the basics right. No trinity, no hellfire and no immortal soul. The problem with this is that those are NOT the basics. Not even close. And not a single one of that trinity of basics has a single thing to do with the quality of one's life or how one deals with life, family and others. In fact, there are as many sound arguments for those beliefs as there are against them. If God considered those basic beliefs as the real basics, he would have made darn sure the Bible would have been written in such a way that his position on the matter was crystal clear. He didn't, so they arent. Well, what ARE the basics, then? More importantly, do Jehovahs Witnesses live up to ALL the basics, or do they live up to ANY of the basics? Since Jehovah's Witnesses not only claim to be Christians, but the ONLY human Christians in the entire Universe, we can use the words of Christ to define those basics. I think the Bible is pretty clear when it discusses what Christ said about the basics. In fact, Jesus was crystal clear about what HE considered to be the most important basics. Jesus said that with his coming, the old Jewish law was fulfilled and therefore abolished. On the other hand, the WTS considers parts of the law to be so important to their religion, that they've made POLICY and RULES on what they call important principles in that law. But Jesus didn't say he wasn't relieving Christians from the principles of the law. He said he was relieving Christians from the law itself. Period. Not some of it. Not most of it. But ALL of it. One therefore has to ask why the WT has made RULES and POLICIES out of Jewish law and enforced those rules with spiritual execution. Principles are fine and dandy, but to FORCE an interpretation of these interpretations as LAW is exactly the opposite of what Jesus said and did and exactly what the leaders of Jehovah's Witnesses have done. By doing so, they are saying Jesus was a LIAR. It can be no other way, despite how they try to explain their actions away. Simple case in point: the Jews used to stone people to death (including children) who were consistently wicked. The WT magazine in an early 1950's article spoke rather fondly of that practice and regretted that the laws of the land in modern times prevented them from stoning their own children who were rebellious. I would like to point out that with those words the Watchtower Leaders regretted the very words of Jesus in abolishing that provision. How could the only True Christian faith dare REGRET the laws established by Jesus Christ himself? They were sad they wished Jesus hadn't done what he had done and wished the laws of modern society actually agreed with what Jesus had abolished for Christians. And they're his followers? His faithful slave? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! How many slaves do you know can get away with calling their masters a liar and still be favored by their masters? THATS' what I mean about talking about the basics. In fact, Jesus himself said the entire law could be summed up into two basic and simple things: love God and love your neighbor. It doesn't get more basic than that, folks. Well, the Watchtower religion thinks differently. It has to play with what it thought Jesus really meant when he was talking about loving your neighbor. To a simple schmuck like me, loving your neighbor means without making this too complicated, "loving your neighbor." That looks really dang basic to me! To the Watchtower Religion, however, it means not loving your neighbor, but loving your fellow JW. So if a neighbor is not a JW, he must not be a neighbor, even if he just happens to be an actual neighbor. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! Or, when cornered on that one, they say that they do love all of their neighbors and they show that love to non-believers by selling them books and converting them. So, in sticking with the basics, how did Jesus explain to us to show love to our neighbors? He told us the story about the Good Samaritan. The Samaritans were a group of people HATED by the Jews, yet Jesus showed believers that the Jews were not following his teachings because none of them helped out the poor man who was hurt and robbed by bandits. They just kept walking on by him, showing their hate and prejudice. It took an evil Samaritan to show the kind of help for neighbors he was talking about. That Samaritan didn't sell the guy any books or even give him any books, and that Samaritan didnt offer to study with the victim to show his love and compassion for him. NO! He ignored their differences and helped the guy out with what he really needed at the moment: wounds that needed healing and money to get him going again. It doesn't get more obvious and more basic than that, yet JWs are taught to do exactly the OPPOSITE of what that Samaritan did. Once again, by their actions they are calling Jesus a LIAR once again. This is really simple stuff, folks. No arguments over doctrine. The Good Samaritan story is so simple a 4-year-old child would get it. The Watchtower Religion doesn't get it. I'll put my trust in a 4-year-old child. With regards to their claims that they DO show love for each other in their own religion (even if they dont for people in other religions), they still have RULES and POLICIES about that! The WT and Proclaimers book specifically state that for the congregation as an entity to help out one of their own in need the following POLICIES must be observed: 1) The person in need must first have asked all his/her relatives for help and been refused any help. 2) The person in need must have had a LONG record of service in the Watchtower religion. 3) The person in need must have also had not just a long record of service, but a long record of FAITHFUL service in the Watchtower religion. Otherwise, that person is screwed and the congregation is not allowed to help. This is in print, folks. I didn't make this up. I've posted the references before. Does she have long years of service, but not always faithful service in all those long years? No? She screwed. Does she have short years of service, but all of those short years were indeed years of faithful service? No? Shes still screwed. The congregation will not help her. Love your God and love your neighbor. Simple words. The basics. The words of Pharisees trying to make rules out of the basics and in fact, invalidate them. Jesus is a liar once again in WatchtowerLand. Would any JW care to explain to us how the Watchtower Religion can make RULES about the congregation helping others that aren't even close to following the example Jesus gave to illustrate his point? Moreover, we arent talking about total strangers who are also non-believes (like the Samaritan and the Jew), but to JW brothers and sisters in need. In Part II, I'll discuss even more examples of the basics that most other Christian religions have figured out and that the Watchtower hasn't. I'm only going to deal with the really, really, really EASY stuff. The stuff that is so easy, it cannot be debated with a straight face; the stuff toddlers can understand and apply, but for some strange reason, seems to totally escape the leaders of Jehovahs Witnesses. And a good percentage of the 6,000,000 people who worship their words. Despite what they say, they don't even have the basics right. Not even the simple stuff.>>>>>>>This really came at a good time for me. Only in the last couple of years have I had the slightest desire to hear any doctrinal talk whatsoever. Before then, I would get furious and leave the room, not wanting to hear one bit of it. I've now come to the point where I have lots of questions, which I've been posting on another site on a message board. The information above is what I've been asking about. I thought maybe some of you would be interested in reading this too. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
16:24:51
Comments
THIS IS FOR BUSTER, IF YOU COULDNT BE BOTHERED TO GO BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POSTING I'VE BROUGHT IT HERE JUST FOR YOU, WITH LOVE. XXXXXX hi to all the lambs out there. my name is Rich, i'm an active JW and i've just read 'crisis of conscience'. its been said that it was a 'banned' book and that it shouldnt be read. well i'll make my own mind up on what i'll read and what i wont. if this book was merely lies, then what does the society fear from lies? it seems to me they fear the truth that is told in books like these. theres a lot of people who are now starting to question and have doubts about the FDS and rightly so. i was baptised 2 years ago and i was suspicious of the society then and they've done nothing to make me think any different, and now i've had to learn the truth from other people. i have posted comment on this site before under 'a concerned JW' because of paranoia, amazing isnt it, how the society can affect me like this. well im not gona be worried about what they think anymore.********* ive learned that the majority of JWs seem to be on what i can only describe as 'auto pilot'. they're too busy concerned about getting there reports in and attending meetings and their pre-studies that their true spiritual self becomes dormant, thinking that what they do is the most important thing and as long as they do what the society keeps drilling into them as to what they should do then thats ok. well i'll tell i dont pre-study ever, if i miss a meeting there's no big deal. if i put a report in late, who do i hurt? as long as i'm developing my relationship with God through Christ by studying Gods word, thats the important thing. i've brought out points in meetings that nobody else would have brought because the FDS never pointed to them scriptures in the first place. what possible benifit do i get from answering aquestion when we've already just read the answer? it just seems to be a way of conditioning the mind to accept what the FDS says and to obey what they say.******** somone mentioned before about not critising the society etc and that this site is just for cases of abuse. well the problem of covering up abuse isnt just about '2 witnesses' etc, its about the whole attitude thats developed by the FDS through all their dogma. when i was studying i was told that this wasnt a 'religon'. from what i've learned it is. they say theres no rules, but there is. there seems to be more rules than any other org i've known. people expect you to dress in a suit and have a side parting. well i wont wear a suit and i've got a skinhead, and i really couldnt care less what others think. i dont attend meeting to try and impress anyone and i have the right to be an individual. all these sorts of things the society try to oppress. well i think for myself. i wont give my mind away. i have a bible trained conscience not a FDS trained conscience. if JWs want to do different then thats up to them, i wont try to change their way of doing things, and i expect others not to try and change me.****** i was disgusted by that GB member towards the end of the Panorama program. to me he just summed up their intire attitude by what he said. i told my mom that night i watched it that i considered myself as not being part of the society, only the congregation. i wont be attending anymore conventions and assemblies, where we get mind-controled to obey the FDS's every command. some JW's believe that the society will go through at armageddon, and not sur they'll survive the great tribulation. my thoughts and prayers got to Bill and his family and all those who have been betrayed by the society. IF THIS AINT GOOD ENOUGH FOR YOU THEN JUST STICK ME IN A GAS CHAMBER. MIND YOU, YOU PROBABLY THINK I ALREADY ATTEND A GAS CHAMBER. you see, i do have a sense of humour.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
16:28:23
Comments
have any of you ever noticed that kids that grow up in the organization blow the doors down when they're 18 and put as much distance as possible between JW and themselves? Only a very few remain in the organization. I left after a talk in the KH re: not sending your kids to college. On that same day, an elder's wife (who was a good friend of mine) asked me if I didn't think I could get by on part-time work and pioneer instead. As I was a single parent, that was out of the question, and I was appalled that she had the nerve to ask me. I'm proud to tell you I left the organization in disgust, and my child graduated summa cum laude from U. of Houston with a degree in computer information systems. Proud mom

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
16:48:51
Comments
To Proud Mom....Good for you! I wish I had the wherewithall to do the same thing a very long time ago. I wasn't allowed to go to college either, nor even bring up the subject to my parents. I'm 42 now, but wish I had left long before I did. I did as my parents raised me to do...got married at 17, had lots of kids, and was the *dutiful christian wife* to an abusive witness. I stayed married to that *&%$#@*&%* for 15 very long years, then divorced him. I was told I couldn't remarry, since my divorce wasn't due to adultery. Whatever....I'm now engaged to a wonderful, LOVING man. I couldn't feel more free than I do now. I wish I could have gone to college though. The Society is so wishy-washy on that subject. They loosened up years ago, way too late for me though, and now they've gone back to No college, just barely get by and pioneer. Yawn.........Thank goodness you didn't listen. Linda Thoman

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
17:06:39
Comments
****THE MOLE****** “True love and peace within the Organization; let's remain under God's rule with faith.” These words where spoken at the last district assembly of Jehovah's Witness in July .Do they speak the truth or with fork tongues? Beware all members of the Organization; the time I warned you about have begun; they are out to find you. With a smiles and cheer they come into your home to sneer. They sit in your home and listen to your every word and test every comment to see if your worthy of their man mad blessings and give their evaluation of what they feel how spiritual you are not knowing only God himself can only see these things. Can they really see the love within a person or is of their own perspective they what should be in their own eyes. Their doomsday Prophets has spoken again. In so many words they have declared that the year 2004 will be the coming of Christ; however, they are a little smarter than before when they prophesized in 1975 and 1984 that the end would come. So by not putting anything in print they have plausible deniability if it doesn't come as expected. What is so humorous is that many Brothers and Sisters during one of our afternoon breaks at the assembly gave a long and detail synopsis of how the world is coming to an end and how his family is preparing for it. I laughed heartily while listening to one of our member's go on and on how they are so faithful and how Jehovah will save them in the time of need. Can anyone be haughtier than this; does this sound like the Pharisees? The real question to ask is will the organization stop or discourage such talk? *** A well-known and reputable speaker within the Society declared this at our convention and so I thought this needed to be said and I quote,,,, “ The time has come when those inside our organization will cool off and betray our brotherhood, … the time is near and the weeding out has begun. The end of the times as declared by the apostles and Jesus is now!”""" If these words are true than 98% of the world's population is dead with no hope of salvation through Christ, so all peoples of the world must conform to the ideas of the Jehovah's Witness' that salvation must come through their organization. There is NO scripture in the Bible that declared salvation through an organization, it says though it's through Christ alone. Are they to makes us believe they alone have this power? Why would a God of love and peace destroy the innocent along with the evil? The Jehovah's Witness' proclaim they have covered the world with their worldwide teaching and that those who didn't listen will be destroyed, the Mormons are declaring the same message, which is correct? Also are this showing true love and a good example to others around them who are looking for the rule truth about God and his Son? Another thing is that they have an excuse for every crime they commit and act of abhorred brutality they do, the cover ups would reach the sky but will they admit it; but no, it is all good because Jehovah god will only forgive them and no one else..... Beware all; they have started their witch-hunt to look for apostates within their own organization. Its looks like they are ready to atrophied as a group of people. Not only do they have enemies on the outside but also on the inside. Many faithful members are now ready to dig in and wait for the fight as I am doing now. Any person in any congregation can now accuse someone of a wrongdoing and remain hidden while the cost to defend one self is enormous to the accused. Does this sound familiar in our Christian past? So now we wait for the new inquisition and burning at the stake just like before when the Pope said all those questioning their authority is to be sought out and purged for their sins. ....... Along with others who are still members, including me are watching with a careful eye; we are waiting for the headhunt to begin and see how their book-burning club seeks out betrayers in their own ranks. One fact is the Elders will come to your home telling you they are there for encouragement while the whole time they are searching through your house and judging you with their soft words as they question ones on irrelevant subjects...... The congregation meetings soon after the district assemblies began to create lectures of apostate teachings and those who speak out against the Organization. Here is one talk that I took notes on that shocked not only me but those who are the old members as well. I quote,,,,, ” Let anyone who has an opinion or voice not in harmony with the Society and the Anointed be removed. We should all sing in chorus like the angles in heaven… Those who believe they are individuals be reminded they are rebelling against God.”"""""" My question is what God or God's are they talking about? If Jehovah created us to be individuals with free will than whom are they talking about, or is it they believe God was in error in the Holy Scriptures? >>>>>>>> If one cannot question the authority system that our hierarchy has created than we as people are no more than thoughtless robots in a Nazi regime. For a group of people supposedly to obey the scriptures they don't seem too follow to closely...... In Jude verse 22 say's “Continue showing mercy to those who have doubts”. Do you think they do this simple act of mercy? It's a good question they should not only ask themselves but as whole group...... I have this comment directed to the President of the Jehovah's Witness' Organization and that is,,,, “ you have substituted the oneness of God for the diversity which cannot be resolved into one. Through this you have created the torment of incomprehension, and the mutilation of the created world of thought, the essence and law of which is diversity. How can you be true to your nature when you attempt to make one (your personal thoughts of God) out of many? I tell you this, what you do to the Angels, Christ and most of all Jehovah himself, that which evil what you preach will befall you also.” """""" This scripture says it all and so I will quote it from our Organization own Bible. 1 Corinthians 4:3-5,,,, “ Now to me it is a very trivial matter that I should be examined by you or by a human tribunal. Even I do not examine myself. For I am not conscious of anything against myself; yet this does not prove me righteous, but he that examine me is Jehovah. Hence do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring the secret things of darkness to light and make the counsels of the hearts manifest, and then each one will have his praise come to him from God.”"""" Will the Witness' follow the written word from their own source or will they have an excuse similar to those Puritans who burned witches for Gods sake? We must resist with all our might the conspiracy to limit and narrow our perception, masquerading tendentious religious dogma as absolute truths........ Witnesses want to really know the truth, then how come the Organization doesn't admit that its way of conducting the congregation is similar to that of Valentinian Gnosticism in the first century?.... Congregation members give talks (preach) to the laity, the women also go on stage, not directly preaching to the audience but to another on the stage (podium), same thing. Preaching from door to door to other Christians declaring the imperfections of their faith that they alone have the good news of salvation, and their ideas of the struggle of light and darkness found only in the Jehovah's Witness' doctrine, etc, etc, etc..... Can they really believe the rest of the world doesn't see this? This is why they and the Mormons seek the dregs of life to fill their seats not as Christ did for salvation but for the need of power and money. They are like public braggarts boasting of their enrollment not of those poor they saved from disaster or distress...... The many that love and give freely of themselves now have to regulate whom they associate with..... During the concluding session of the same assembly in July one of the last speakers insisted on avoiding bad association and the weak; however, isn't this contrary to scripture also? In John 7:24 states these actions clearly by saying,” Stop judging from the outward appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”""""" My question to the Society is how can you have a double standard? If Jesus said to go for the lost sheep and leave behind the other ninety-nine, then where does one draw the line on who is weak? If the weak are in need of help but shunned are the Elders no better than the men Christ himself condemned as evil serpents and so Christ sat with prostitutes and beggars?..... Will the Elders wash my feet as Christ our leader did? Is there such a humble man in our Organization? Each person in our Kingdom Halls is so preoccupied with making a good appearance they have lost the truth on why the first century congregation formed. If anyone has noticed while attending our meetings many of the members are no more than empty shells, regurgitating the same useless babble so not is different. Image is not everything it's the wholeness one can exert with love and kindness is the fine works spoken of in Galatians 5:22-3; therefore, its not a showy display but helping the poor and weak in which the grace of God blesses people. I will keep attending and reporting. Stay on the watch, you may also be next to be questioned about your inner feelings and standing in the congregation. Beware to all of you. Sincerely, *********The Mole******

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
17:15:36
Comments
(1) Jesus Christ quoted frequently from the "old testament". His reliance and use of it is a clear indication that it is important to consider it in one's worship of Jehovah God. The "new testament" did NOT do away with basic tenents in the 10 commandments and in the matter of dealing with people. NOTHING was done away with except that the true Christians would not worship Jehovah God from the heart and not from ritualistic sacrifices (the sacrificing of animals WAS done away with). ======= (2) The Watchtower clearly states that one's neighbor is the person right next to you: next door; in the seat next to you on the bus, plane, train, car; in another country; another nationality, etc. I don't know about your neighbors but we have good relations with our neighbors. They help us on occasion and we help them, too, whenever asked. That includes giving each other rides when needed (keys locked in the car and gotta go get another set from another family member, ride to the doctor, etc.). Does this happen frequently? No but they're always there when needed as we are. Whenever it is not a matter of conscience, we give gifts to our neighbors, co-workers, etc. We exercise human compassion and caring to everyone. ======= HOWEVER, as friendly and outgoing as I am, I have found that, at times, co-workers (in particular), RESENT my being friendly, helpful, kind, sharing in doing good toward them, etc. BECAUSE THEY HATE ME BECAUSE THEY HATE MY RELIGION. They prefer I NOT talk to them or be friendly or helpful to them because they really think of me as being "dirty" because they hate my religion. My being friendly and helpful is RESENTED, not wanted or appreciated. So, what do I do? I'm EVEN MORE FRIENDLY AND HELPFUL. It just GALS them! (Of course, I could twist this and say EVERYONE hates JW's but that is not true. We need to remember we're not talking about EVERYONE -- just a few who have taken a false step regardless of the position they hold.) ======= ======= ======= If you read your Bible, especially the "old testament", you will find that Jehovah God views ALL of his people the same. Each one has the same value and worth to him no matter how much or how little they can do. The reason being is because everything we do is for the benefit of our brothers. So, even if we're prominent in the public or organization's eye and give great talks to thousands, HE does not view us as being of any greater value than the least one among us who can't do all that. That's because we're all unique and have our own talents that we shine in. There isn't one talent that is greater than another. ======= There is NOT one way of viewing things and, remember, there are 6 MILLION + JW's. We're all different. We come from different cultures, religions, socio-economic backgrounds, have different mental, intellectual, emotional abilities and skills. I don't know of one single person in any country or state I've been in that hasn't at some time or other felt overlooked when they needed something -- even when they asked. ======= So, who didn't help you that you're so sure we don't help anyone? ONE person?

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
17:17:05
Comments
A call to arms my friends, the dreaded day has come for us all who love freedom. The attack to the public is about to begin with a song, not with airplanes crashing raining bodies upon us, but our own compatriots who will deceive us and give us to those dogs waiting to feed upon our carcasses. The very day we all thought would come has come through our back door with glory and praise. Welcomed by all who love stability, they are willing to accept slavery and shackles. Yes, shackles. That is what our future will be if we do not prepare now. The Office of Home Security shall tag us and see our every thought and all done in defense of our glorious nation. The silent majority is no longer quiet: they sing, waive the flag and are willing to give their son's to death. We who love the constitution know our freedom is hanging in the balance. Safety with more laws, or risk to maintain our liberty: the decision to resist is now or those damnable creatures of Islam will have won. We are told to be tolerant of sand niggers while these vile animals come to us for help only to use our freedom against us. They should be vanquished and cast asunder in our nation. We the people must not let them impose fear into our hearts, the good fight is still available and out there. These devils can be easily spotted and dealt with from now on; but our freedom must come first, not to loose focus. Our government has known about the problem of this horrid race of people and let their actions ride on the carousal of world attention. We the people need to gather for ourselves, supplies and prepare to resist. The Senate has declared an emergency for monitoring all suspected terrorist: who would that be? The man screaming for justice, the person accused of not conforming to the majorities request, or someone out of anger screams profanity to the Cops. All of us now are targets, just as the KGB monitored their own so shall The Office of Home Security will do to us. We all know there is no such thing as temporary just from the example of our recent history like the IRS that is still functioning and Welfare still handing checks to the foreigners.> Remember those accused of being anti-American who sided with the militia or the man writing letters of protest to speak his mind? We are all under scrutiny and must prepare for a home invasion from the masked police coming through our door late at night. This is our real future and now is the time to speak up or lose the fight before it starts. As I have written before our government has waived the steak of prosperity too often and too long to those starving dogs out there, the foreigners have been exploited by the greedy corporations from the United States and our armies are to police the world, Say No to it all. The Muslim religion condones the deaths of the innocent, don't be mislead, we know the truth, even their wicked Muhammad excepted a beheaded skull of a non-believer as a gift and this is written in the Koran. > A book written by Stansfield Turner; Terrorism and Democracy makes the point of terror to our country in one simple sentence' “We should set our sights high in hope that the burden of terrorism we are presently carrying will be a blessing in disguise by helping usher in a new era of world cooperation that will reach well beyond the suppression of terrorism itself.”> The idea of a New World Order is now in the making, it's clay feet mixed with iron shall stand tall and rule the world supposedly with one unified government. Is it possible those TERRORIST may be right they didn't have the education or technology to fund such and operation? What is curious it took an attack for the United Stated to have NATO and all western allies shout with one voice, could it be trickery at the expense of THREE thousand lives to bring about this New World Order? Is it not funny that the Jehovah's Witnesses want us to be sheep? We have a lot of questioning to do before we give ourselves to nationalism and the United Nations or Religions that wish us to be robots. To the one who attacked mole, I believe you fall into one of these groups.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
17:20:42
Comments
People really need to be careful of spouting their OPINIONS from the platform. Yes, there has been concern about young people going on to college or university, however, it was concern for their spiritual welfare. Officially, there isn't any prohibition from going to college or university. Sometimes, in trying to do what is right, it's difficult to make rules that'll fit in all situations. Too bad just one talk from the platform could just "change" you so quickly -- at least you make it sound as if it was a fast decision. Ultimately, it's Jehovah God that we want to care about, not people. HE says that we should do all things in moderation and that we should be like wolves in sheep's clothing. He's not saying we can't better ourselves. He's saying that we need to be aware of the snares along away and to remember HIM in our pursuits -- especially his love, mercy, and understanding.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
17:26:57
Comments
You left and never came back? You were young then. Can you view the situation differently now or are you still trying to justify to yourself the rightness of your course back when you were, really, a child? If so, then you're still reasoning as a child. That's not a put down. We all need to do some growing up so that we can appreciate underlying principles and recommendations with a more understanding "eye". There's an old saying: From experience, people talk; from MORE experience, they DON'T talk. Sometimes, people rattle their mouths off and they don't know a thing about what they're talking about so they can't put the necessary wisdom in the words they may be reading from a scripted talk. There are those, too, that love to put their 2¢ (cents) in and that makes alterations in the scripted talk that were never intended. We get counsel all the time about being careful to not be pushing our opinions on others. Too bad you were still a baby when you heard that talk and couldn't deal with the speaker and his information in a more critical manner.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
17:39:04
Comments
Has anyone noticed that the percentage of abused at 28,000 compared to 6,000,000 is 0.0046? Or, that leaves 5,972,000 JW's left over. ------- If only 3 elders were involved with each case, that's 84,000 elders. That leaves 5,888,000 JW's. ------- I'm NOT minimizing the harm done to victims nor do I want anyone using these figures to minimize the harm done to victims. ------- The thing is that ALL JW's are being abused by all this when it's not all JW's that are like this. Some of us have been around long enough to know that we need to take some things with a grain of salt. Believe it or not, there is an "underground" network in many congregations. The abused find each other and have sympathetic ears and hearts to talk to. The elders don't know it, though. They hear what they want to hear and think that everything is just "hunky dorry" and they're wonderful. At least it won't take Jehovah's Witnesses CENTURIES to change as it did one church organization that we've heard of lately. ------- I don't think this would be out in the open if Jehovah God, himself, didn't want the stink aired out and taken care of. It's out in the open because those that should have didn't take care of it as they should have. We're dealing with personalities and that's not always easy to deal with. Unfortunately, those personalities don't know yet that they're looking and sounding more and more as though they've adapted the thinking that they're infallible. No JW is such, no matter who he or she is.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
18:08:25
Comments
The 23,720 number is for the United States, Canada and some European countries. The witnesses in these regions total less than 2 million. (Check your yearbook) Also there is a question as how a person makes the list. Does he need to confess? Does he need to be convicted in a court of law, accused by two witnesses or exactly how? The Watchtower Society is the only one with these answers.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
18:10:32
Comments
I never thought I was in a right wing group, I still don't believe that I am. However, some of the statements are true and some exaggerated. I hope you publish my letter in response to your previous letter. I too have had some questions about being a Jehovah's Witness. I was born into the situation and known no other. I have never known any other religion and my parents kept me very isolated from others who were considered worldly (pagans). I believe that we do good, but the attitude by most people is apathy so it has been a struggle for us. It is true most in our group believe everything that is written in our Watchtower Magazine, but that goes for any Religion who publishes anything. I have seen the wrongs; however, this is by no means an expose`of my congregation nor of the others I know of personally. I remember the 1975 period when my parents didn't believe that the world was going to end and my fathers disfellowshipping.``` I also remember the 1980-83 shake up of our Society which is still very vivid in my mind. Yet my mom wanted to return to our kingdom hall anyway because all her family are members of the Jehovah's Witnesses'; nevertheless, it took years for her to get excepted back into our religion, and my father, he rather not have anything to do with the religion or any other religion as far as he is concerned. I will admit that I am a baptized member of the Organization of Jehovah's Witnesses and I will tell my experience and the truth of what I seen. This is in no way meant to hurt all those I love by writing this response . There are couple of incidents I will mention but I will keep the names hidden so as too refrain from harming the innocent. ~~ I remember not long ago in a different hall , there was an incident that shocked everyone and no one said anything . It is my belief and still is, that everyone was afraid to speak up in fear of reprisals. A young man in the north area was found molesting young children that he was in care of. The parents were very upset and went to the Elders of their hall to complain. It was a horrible scandal that literally shook everyone's pillars. I personally thought he was going to prison for his actions. The young mans parents begged the Elders not to turn him into the police and the young man cried and begged also. With pleading tears the Elders said they would see into the matter. To my knowledge the children's parents were about to inform the police but the Elders told them that it was unscriptual to call the law. They gave the scripture about how it is wrong to sue one another. Basically, I think they wanted to hush the matter so that reproach wouldn't fall on their congregation. The young man received a demotion and a public reproving. I was shocked, We are suppose to be in subjection to God's laws and to man's law. This was clearly breaking man's law not reporting the matter to the authorities. It was quietly put aside. I was told that one of the Elders gave a talk to the congregation about gossip and subtle threats about discussing things that were of a judicial matter. Fear instilled in the hearts kept everyone silent. This was the most horrible thing I have heard in years. The children's parents were dismayed at the whole situation and I asked why they didn't do it anyway, they said they were afraid of being accused of not obeying Gods words. So the police were never called and the children will have to live with this ugly memory forever. The Elders swept it under the carpet and no one spoke openly about it again. ~~ Here is one more that has to be mentioned. Awhile back in West Sacramento, there is a so called Brother of the faith who committed statutory rape. The mother was very upset and intended phone the police but again she was told to show forgiveness and love. I was told they also gave the same scripture about Christians suing one another. She threatened to do it any way's but was told not too. She said to all of us that she was told by the Elders that if she did, she would be rebelling against gods authority. The law was broken we said, but she said if she did phone the police she would get in trouble.~~ These examples are true to the best of knowledge and it grieves me very much. Now I see why Brother Franz said in his book " It is Christ we should focus on, not some human organization, that our attention and interest should focus, for carefully concealed in him are all are treasures". He may be disfellowshipped but he has made an impact on all Jehovah's Witnesses. His book has passed through many of our hands but he is correct in saying that " drastic actions taken toward those person accused of apostasy were unjustified and repugnant". I can not reject my faith and do say that the previous letter was nothing more than bashing my religion. But I know of those who knew Brother Franz and they discussed all those issues I have just written about. I have heard the he is a very kind and a loving man who does love god. We all need martyrs for what is right and if Ray Franz is right he will be remembered for ever like the others in our past who loved truth.~~ My dad wants nothing to do with my religion and said he doesn't really care to return. As I briefly mentioned before he was disfellowshipped in 1976 when I was very little. He worked over 40 hours a week and didn't have time to go door to door. I remember the Elders of our old hall talking to him constantly about the need for field service. My dad said he would lose his job or his house if he did what they suggested. It got to the point where he grit his teeth every time they showed up. He told my mom that they suggested he quit his job and spend more time going door to door preaching. He was dumfounded at their comments and it was backed up with the reasoning that the world would end soon. I remember so many who lost there jobs because of this kind of thinking. Many were kicked out for apostasy for not obeying these men. My dad says now, where are these fools who told me to quit, the world didn't end in 1976, only there control over him did. He was disfellowshipped in 1976 for not being reasonable and not being humble. I heard the way they spoke to my dad and it was like a quiet serpent with soft words and a superior attitude, like they knew gods thoughts. My mom cried for days because she knew they had already intended to remove my dad. He stood up for his rights and appealed their decision. To no avail it was announced a week before my birthday that he was disfellowshipped. Our world changed at that moment for us. My dad is very successful in his job and now has more free time than ever and ready to retire. He says if he would have done what they said we would have all suffered greatly. He is humored when he sees or hears of these men when we are at our assembly because they didn't get their end of the world and are broke still working at low paying jobs without the possibility retiring. I have heard that out of the five who prosecuted him only one remains in authority. From the five, one was disfellowshipped for what ever reasons, one gave up the religion entirely, one died, and the last stepped down from his position. Hearing this gave my dad some release of the thoughts that he was bad in some way for standing up for himself. My mom is a different story but it is the same ending . ~~ My mom has been a member since her birth also. She cannot remember any other association or any religion in her family. My family members are all baptized and have been associated with this organization for years. My mom used to be a pioneer ( full time Preaching) for years. She went to New York and worked for awhile there and traveled around the US for a couple of years as a pioneer. I remember her telling us how she was so excited to do all this and who she knew . Names and people she talked too seemed endless and many were very high up in our organization. In 1980 when the shake up began in our organization, my mom cried to hear that some of her friends were removed. Once again she was devastated. Some of those people helped her through her crisis and helped her remained active despite my dads feelings. She continued without a word preaching and telling everyone about our harmony and love for one another. A year had past and she said to a few that it was awful what had happened and how can she say we have harmony when we didn't. I remember more clearly now what mom my went through now that I'm older. I heard the ugly rumors about my moms friends and so did my mom. She defended herself and her friends only to be put in a head hunt situation. I know for a fact she encouraged her friends over the phone to stay faithful and not to do bad. She was lectured week after week that her faith in our organization was weak and possibly apostate. She was crushed to hear this. I remember the toll it took on her health then. She had done nothing wrong in her conscience or her heart she said. My mom was removed in 1983. Our family shunned us, even me. Years passed and my mom was reinstated in 1992. She was able to see her family and my grandma. MY grandfather died a year before and we were not invited because both my parents were disfellowshipped. I to got baptized in 1992 and it made my mom happy.~~ My reasons are mine on why I did get baptized;however, I know this, I will be more cautious and not fall prey to wild thinking or throw my life away preaching. I seen the best of both worlds and I will be like my dad, I also will have the devotion like my mother to those I love and care about. It scares me personally to see people suffer needlessly like my friends girlfriend. It shakes me up on how disgusting it is to cover up legal matters and let others be abused; therefore, I believe that my god Jehovah will destroy these people, and I do believe in him without question. I will not listen to any mans foolishness on what they believe god thinks or what they think he wants. Our hearts he will search out, not bible zealots who feel they are better than anyone else. I have my regrets. I promise not ever to do to my children what was done to me in my past. I will not deprive them the need to release nor to communicate or to express themselves as I was hinderd. I think my life could have been much more than it is now. I have a weak High school education because at that time when I was in high school the J.W. organization did discourage any extra curricular activity and college prep courses. I whole heartedly believe that this effected my life style today and to regretfully say I have no skills. My children: they will play baseball, wrestle, and join the chess club. All these things are part of growing up and to hinder them is evil. I kept being told I couldn't do these things when I was young and I told my mom how I hated not doing anything productive at school in my early days. Her reply was that she was sorry for me not going to college and if she had to do all of over again, she would have let me expand my horizons. She said those were the times then and all higher education was discouraged, if she would have known what she knows now, it wouldn't have happened. I could have been somebody great or better equipped to do good by now. I struggle to survive while those younger than me have the upper management jobs and I'm stuck with some low wage, taking orders from some pee-on. ~~ The impact of the Elders carries much weight but the need for the many is control or a sense of purpose. We have good times along with the bad, but a limit should be on how much control over ones mind should be. Our conscience is a gift from god and should not be exploited. I think religion is good in some ways and to have it removed would crush hope. Hope keeps mankind from destroying one another. If the world is to end, I know my heart will live to see my dream of being in a paradise. False prophecy I ignore, but love and kindness keeps me going. I believe that God exist and mankind needs teachings that exert love.......

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
18:37:37
Comments
To Whom It May Concern:_______ As you are so intent on asking questions TO Mr. Bowen and wondering why all of us are not answering to suit you. They are questions directed TO Mr. Bowen so they are questions that he should answer. IF you truly wanted the questions answered then you would be waiting for the person who you asked to answer them. Now that we have covered the basic rules of etiquette I have a few questions that I am directing to YOU, will you then answer them? ________ 1. Do you think that it is right to allow and send ‘known' pedophiles to the homes of others? __________2. Do you think it is honorable to send a ‘known' pedophile to another's home? ________ 3. If you were now faced with the realization that you may have done something in your career as a witness that harmed another, would you then do what you could to assist another's healing and ask for forgiveness and maybe even try to ‘make things right' with the one you harmed? __________ Do you know for a fact that others are NOT doing that? ________ 4. How would you feel if your child came to you and told you that a Christian brother of yours had sexually molested her? __________ 5. Would you then tell her that she will have to wait until another child gets molested by the same brother? ___________ 6. Would you tell her then that since there are no two witnesses to the abuse, she would still have to be in the same room, listening to this same brother while he teaches her about Jesus and GODS love? ____________ 7. Would YOU then go to that brother and shake his hand, the hand that touched your child in a disgusting way? ___________ 8. What if your child was older, she goes to the Elders and tells them, since there are no two witnesses she is told to keep it quiet, not to gossip, to, ‘wait on Jehovah' so she doesn't tell you. How would you then feel if after socializing with the abuser you then find out that he had molested you own daughter? ___________ 9. When you ask your daughter, why didn't you tell me? She then tells you that the Elders told her not to, that it would be gossiping, how would you feel about the Elders who told her not to gossip? _________ 10. If you read in a news paper that a well known company, one that you had been a customer of, was sending ‘known' pedophiles to your home, knocking on your door, and this company's excuse was, “oh, he said he was sorry and said he wouldn't do it again, he seemed sincere!” HOW WOULD YOU FEEL? _______ See only twelve questions! Can you, will you take the time out of your busy schedule of trying to undermine what this site is here for, and be human enough to look into your heart, put yourself in another's shoes and answer? There, see, easily read, not to many mistakes in spelling, and coming from the heart to the heart! With love from the spirit of LOVE, bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
18:51:39
Comments
OK. RICH IT,S JOHN DON,T THINK YOU SCARED ME AWAY FIRST YOU CONTRADICTED TOUR SELF ON EVERY POINT. LET,S TEST a few things yousay the jws have the truth??? job 13:7-12james 4:17 1 thes 5:21 lets start with 1914 jesus returned to kingdom power then ??? my foot jesus hade all power over the heavens and earth since he was seated at the right hand of the father in 33a.d. eph1:20-22 mat28:18 col1:13-20 etc.on jesus second return does not the bible say all eyes will see him ????as for world war one being the worst till that point study your history . the the spainish french war ,the war with nopleon. german french war all these in the 17 18th century each killed more people .than WW1 there are more and i might have some manes wrong but you need to study .history books make the wt look like fools . reading wt teachings made me look this stuff up .famine JUST in india in the 1800,s over 200 million people died of famine thats just in india !!!! i don,t remember the exact figures if i recall 1200 million or more world wide in the 1800,s earth wide died of famine . far less than since 1914 in 1900 the earth,s population was @ 1.3billion it,s now 6billion how can the population increase 5 times if theres no food???????????????? the wt twistes history daniel and jermiah to come up with 1914 again do home work on 607. b.c. etc. jesus choose the wt in 1918 or 1919 . TOTAL BULL CRAP take a year or two and read wt teachings till 1919 forget the king DUM hall and the book study and study if what the wt told you last week about them is true then you,ll see the wt history book the kingDUM proclaimers book is full of crap and only use the name of god to glorfy the wt. on these points and others i never meet ONE jw who could prove me wrong and not ONE EVER would have a study with me in any of these old wt. books .WONDER WHY???? see your wrong as according to my understanding if the bible who god is going to save or not you can,t teach the gospel of men etc. gal 1 1-10 1 cor15 1-41jn 5:13 jn 2 etc. fast the wt don,t brlieve jesus was ressurested in the boly act 2 24-53 jn 218-22 1thes 5-23 eph 2-4-5 1 cor15-45v luke 24-39 phil3-20-21 etc,etc, they twist 1 tim 3-18 i could go on for yrs and watch jw defenders foricate the word of god but it,s simple ask the holy sprit to show you the light cause the bible is really a closed book that only the wt can understand because there is only one hope sons of god part of abraham gal-3-28-29 jn 10-10-16 eph 2 12-18 4 4-6 etc. ro 4-16 ge 22-17 mr 9-41 1 col15-23 all must be born again and be son s of god 1 jn 51 jn 3-1-8 eph 4-1-6 phil 2:9-11

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
19:00:39
Comments
hi it,s john the site cut me off i guess i talk to much i,ll use BUSTERS words jws words are so polished but they reek of falsehood!! PU PU freedom in christ to all john

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
19:10:40
Comments
Rich: Now isn't this just a busy day? Twisted and bitter? A sensitive guy just might take that the wrong way. I like the way you fight back my friend. I did read your earlier posts, and tell you what: you and I agree on boat loads of stuff. Good sense of humor too. - Buster (BTW, there was one aimed at you that I didn't write - I always sign and rarely cite scripture snippets.)

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
19:19:52
Comments
There are those of us who cry out for freedom. Is there such a thing as Christian Freedom? I believe that there is. Many of us in our own religious circles are being suppressed not to think and to feel. The human need of expression and love to one another is being dictated to only love those in our own religious environment. This alone causes the division we know in America and else where throughout the world. This must stop, but it cannot unless we ourselves put a stop to it. We can never like everybody everywhere all the time but at the same time do we need such divisions; on the other hand, religion supposedly preaches love but approves the actions of shunning and neglect because one is not part of their organization. As a member of the Jehovah's Witness Organization I see this problem within our group. In the last two weeks I have been told that we must avoid those who are not of our faith and to also avoid any one who questions the Organizations policies. Yes, it is true. We are being told by the leaders of each congregation to follow this direction so not to be against god's word. I have spoken to many of my associates and peers about this matter and we are all dumbfounded that our own organization has subjected us to follow the same rules and guidelines the Pharisees had done in Christ time. I read a book recently and it brought some facts I wanted to share with others. It was written by Bernard McGinn. In his book titled the Coming of the Antichristo he explained in his chapter of Heretics how religions then and now are still similar. He said, “rhetoric was used internally, to identify certain Christians as apocalyptic enemies because of their heretical beliefs.....{These}traditions offer unusually strong resources for group solidarity and action against threats, imagined or real. This is as true as we approach the year 2000 as it was at the turn of the first millennium....Those who use [this] language and its equivalents [use it] only as a weapon to smear opponents. ” I can say this. We ask Jehovah that we have recognized the cunning and the damaging seduction of our souls by false and hypocritical prophets, guided by the Antichrist against the Law of Jehovah, that we may beware of them and diligently be on our guard against them. For we now clearly see the Great Abomination standing in the Holy Place, as prophesied by the prophet Daniel: the ridicule, blasphemy, suppression, and repudiation of all God's truth. I ask for the reformation of our current problems. It is clearly evident that only those who say the word Apostate are afraid that their faith and traditions can not hold up to the truth or criticism. Is it true that our religion is scared that its members are fed up with the useless speculation about the end? The irony is that many who are members are convinced the Antichrist is working within the Organization. The movement has begun for the Elders to stop frightening their congregations of the coming end to create their own means of getting them to obey what ever whim they have that week. An article came out published by the Organization, and I quote, “All Christians should be careful not to add to the burdens of others by taking it upon themselves to impose their own ideas in matters of personal choice.....Others tend to turn the Society's suggestions and guidelines into rules....Some have carried this mature counsel to extremes.” If the article can be published and written for us for counsel then obviously there is a problem of those who are doing this within the organization. It stands to reason this is so or it would have not been written for us. I think these scriptures apply to all: Ephesians 2:8-10, 2Corinthians 3:6, Romans 7:6, John 7:24. One last point that should be brought out is the issue of disfellowshipping. It is unscriptual and against the true teaching of our Holy God. The New Jerusalem Bible, NIV, and the Oxford Bible and others give the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible without the slighted version we are forced to except as the true Bible. Isaiah 58:7 says, “you should not deny your own kin”. Yet, the Organization will follow Matthew 18:15-17 and back it up with its own lititure. The Elders handbook “Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock” quotes all internal doctrine to support this crime of the personality. The vague interpretation is as solid as truth as far as the other members are concerned and will say anything to defend this injury. Shunning was condemned as part of the old order by Christ himself; Furthermore, the Elders assume a position to be judges by claiming to purify the congregation. Sadducees and Pharisees way of thinking is supported in are new way of thinking or the new light as they call it. The Elders handbook says convicting the wrongdoer and convincing the wrongdoer of his errors can bring him back to repentance. This is the facts and all should know the truth about the true order of things in this organization. I remember not long ago a Circuit Overseer came to my apartment to see how I was doing. He didn't say anything until the other Elder of my congregation was finished talking to me about my health. The C.O. told me to look up a scripture with him and so I obliged him. We looked up 2 Corinthians 1:21 and after we read this scripture he asked me what I thought of it. I told him that this is a major belief in our religion. He looked at it and said this was his way to see if I was apostate to see if I believed the anointed where leading us. I could have disputed this because there is no evidence of it and also those who lead are Organization are not even of the anointed. The Elders didn't come to encourage me it was a witch hunt. Ever since then I sit at my kingdom hall not with joy in my heart but with disdain at the hypocrisy. Thanks for the past news letters, now I know I am not alone.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
19:23:16
Comments
We want a unified assault that would rid us of the black presence in our state. We are the collective seeking information and we are the few calling for the students and others who want change, change from the Socialist Ideas of the Black Man. We have pondered on how an only white organization would be able to exist or defeat their enemies; we came to conclusion as did Hitler's advisors did, that the white exremist cannot fight a two front war or a many front war as a matter of fact. We have studied Mein Kampf and agree with the ideas of Hitler's genius, but even Hitler needed allies to advance the cause: the Vichy French supporters, the Spanish Federalist, and many others who wanted to adapt Hitler's ideas to fight along side his armies. Is there a truly white race anymore? We have seen the horror of the white women kissing Negro's, having their babies, and even trying to act like them with their polluted talk and walk. The white brought these big lipped buffalo heads to our land and now the white is beneath their feet, as the example set by the hideous nigger OJ Simpson. The white curse is now breeding faster than rats with what ever color permits them, so being, creation of a new race of degenerates, destroying all that they touch, Is there not a place were they destroy or bring down the value of all properties. We the collective wish for the so called pure white race to remove these people first, then seek their own sovereignty. It sad that many people cross the Mexican border; however, many are not even of the Latino race. The U. S. government has teased the poor from other countries, they have exploited theses insignificant nations to the point were they are like a starving dogs on the other side of the fence wanting to come over and enjoy the steak being waived at them. U.S. propaganda has warped the minds of many that we are the nation of good and plenty. They use our land like a prostitute. We want change and call for rebellion against the New Order and the Socialist views of the Nigger. The times have come for a new era of thinking, and destroy this so-called New World Order. Students, the Self-taught men, and the intellectual; lets get rid of the Negro and change the government to stop calling for slavery of all people even those who believe they are pure white. Even the poor white will someday work along with the Negro as slave if we do not stop the evil government from controlling our everyday life. We understand why the K.K.K hate the Negro; they too were almost slaves after the civil war and so today by that example, we too are close to being the new slave generation. We foresee the fate of white hate groups who hate everyone: infiltration by the government, sabotage, and a more than a three front war, then a cease of existences. When the white extremist is defeated the rest of us will suffer who are not considered white, and we will suffer because we know the nigger will try to put us under their control. The unseen many will be forced to be under black subjugation, supported by the traitors of the white race, the white activist!!!!!!!! This is why We, The Collective are all haters of the Nigger race, seeking answers hoping to find more information and intellectually to find ways to destroy them. We wish change and advancement of the minds and bodies, to uplift human kind and burying the human excrement that now robs us of happiness and sinks us into a bestial state of existence. When the racial war begins soon, those who hate the nigger must unite. The disease is spreading and tricking the populace. Don't be fooled, the sick talking, music, and their fake made up culture will destroy the American land. Unite people.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
19:35:14
Comments
20 Questions: I can see that you were unimpressed with the assention to your point about Bill's longevity in the WTS, and even less so with the dismissal of your personal attacks on him. Again, it is a CULT defense to attack the person to detract from the message they deliver. But lets see if you can get the irrelavance if we approach it this way. Quantity of sexual coverups: this probably has two relavant answers, 0 and greater than 0. If he had been involved in 0 coverups, are you wanting to deduce that he has no knowledge close enough to be bringing out the subject? That he couldn't be reporting events he knows of but didn't participate in? Lets change the answer to 5. If he had been involved in 5 coverups, are you saying that he has committed such grievous sins that he is not worthy of delivering the message? With this question, you are trying to work him to a point where his only answer is to shut up and go along. He won't. The question is irrelvant. You question his longevity with the organization with the same intent - a shorter period may imply his lack of experience, a longer period implies complicity. What if he had been with the organization just 5 years, is he therfore not to be believed. Would a 60-year tenure imply too much participation? Again, irrelavant. With this question, you are trying to work him to a point where his only answer is to shut up and go along. He won't. If you have some reason to not believe what he is saying, then lets have it. If you cannot push the tide of the evidence, then lets take the discussion to the next level and please let me know how such events in your org. affect your commitment to the WTS. This stuff is real and it is worthy of serious discussion. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
20:25:12
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
20:26:45
Comments
rmk you make me envious you expose the wt on a SMOOTHER ANGLE than i but i think we both see the same facts of the wt. please tell the jws how rutherford said how the angels? told him to publish a book from a demoNIC sprit medium ANGELS AND WOMEN SURE ALL YOU JW DEFENDERS HAVE READ THAT WT BEAUTY. DON,T FORGET THE HARP OF GOD, DELIVERANCE FACE THE FACTS ENEMYS, CHILDREN, ETC ETC.DON,T FORGET JW DEFENDERS THE WT TAUGHT NOT TO HAVE CHILDERN FROM 1925 -1951 IF YOU WANTED JEHOVAH TO LET YOU INTO THE PARADISE ??? OH does any one know who C reated all the animals etc. ????? i bet you think you know with the wt bible based training////SO WHO CREATED THE COCKAROACH,JAPANESE BEETLE HOUSE FLY, GRASSHOPPER, MOSQUITO.ETC ETC. WHY GOD,S SPRIT DIRECTED ORG. YOU KNOW THE FAITHFUL SLAVE SAID SATAN CREATED ALL THE BAD BUGS .????? I KNEW ALL YOU JW DEFENDERS ARE OF AWARE OF THAT ???RIGHT RIGHT LOOK IT UP IF YOU CAN FIND IT AT THE KH LIBRARY OR TRY 42ND. LIBRARY NYC. WT REPRINTS VOL. 4 PG 2836-7 GOLDEN AGE 3 25 PG 404 G.A .12-19 23 PG 163-68 G.A.2 13 24 PG 314-5 WT REPRINTS VOL 2 PG 1685 G.A. 12- 6-22 PG 141 G.A.12 19-23 PG 168 G.A. 11-8 22 PG 93 REMEMBER THIS IS THE PROPER SPRITUAL FOOD FROM BROOKLYN. I MEAN JEHOVAH AT THE PROPER TIME , DON,T EVEN TRY PROV, 4-18 THE LIGHT GETS BRIGHTER AND BRIGHTER CAUSE THERE IS ONLY LIGHT IN ANY EXPOSE' OF THE WT .THE FACTS SHOW THE WATCHTOWER IS A FALSE CHRIST!!!!!!!!! JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
20:26:47
Comments
rmk you make me envious you expose the wt on a SMOOTHER ANGLE than i but i think we both see the same facts of the wt. please tell the jws how rutherford said how the angels? told him to publish a book from a demoNIC sprit medium ANGELS AND WOMEN SURE ALL YOU JW DEFENDERS HAVE READ THAT WT BEAUTY. DON,T FORGET THE HARP OF GOD, DELIVERANCE FACE THE FACTS ENEMYS, CHILDREN, ETC ETC.DON,T FORGET JW DEFENDERS THE WT TAUGHT NOT TO HAVE CHILDERN FROM 1925 -1951 IF YOU WANTED JEHOVAH TO LET YOU INTO THE PARADISE ??? OH does any one know who C reated all the animals etc. ????? i bet you think you know with the wt bible based training////SO WHO CREATED THE COCKAROACH,JAPANESE BEETLE HOUSE FLY, GRASSHOPPER, MOSQUITO.ETC ETC. WHY GOD,S SPRIT DIRECTED ORG. YOU KNOW THE FAITHFUL SLAVE SAID SATAN CREATED ALL THE BAD BUGS .????? I KNEW ALL YOU JW DEFENDERS ARE OF AWARE OF THAT ???RIGHT RIGHT LOOK IT UP IF YOU CAN FIND IT AT THE KH LIBRARY OR TRY 42ND. LIBRARY NYC. WT REPRINTS VOL. 4 PG 2836-7 GOLDEN AGE 3 25 PG 404 G.A .12-19 23 PG 163-68 G.A.2 13 24 PG 314-5 WT REPRINTS VOL 2 PG 1685 G.A. 12- 6-22 PG 141 G.A.12 19-23 PG 168 G.A. 11-8 22 PG 93 REMEMBER THIS IS THE PROPER SPRITUAL FOOD FROM BROOKLYN. I MEAN JEHOVAH AT THE PROPER TIME , DON,T EVEN TRY PROV, 4-18 THE LIGHT GETS BRIGHTER AND BRIGHTER CAUSE THERE IS ONLY LIGHT IN ANY EXPOSE' OF THE WT .THE FACTS SHOW THE WATCHTOWER IS A FALSE CHRIST!!!!!!!!! JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
20:32:48
Comments
REGARDING - 13 Aug 2002 Time: 19:23:16 you cannot fool me! You cannot fool anyone!

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
20:46:42
Comments
we have found in our mist a person who wishes to argue and not seek reason. do not let this person make you angry. to mole, i think you are great. to buster, wow. to john, relax. to linda, dig in and get your answer. i hope many look back into past posting, many of the people have come alive and spoke and ignored the petty disputes and focused on why children are harmed and those who were harmed. dont be offended mole, you type slower than your mind can put on paper. my typing sucks too. bro from galt.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
20:59:41
Comments
WHO,S THIS GUY THE Mole one minute he,s calling the wt, bad the next he,s calling them god,s choosen org .i think he wants to BE the next leader of the waTCHTOWER SO HE CAN FOLLOW SUIT AND WRITE CONTRADICTING WT MAG,S TO MISLEAD BLIND PEOPLE . STOP THE CRAP STEP UP TO THE PLATE !!!TELL YOUR CONG. WHERE IT,S AT BE A MAN AND FOLLOW CHRIST AND LEAVE ALL THE FOLLOWERS OF MAN TO THIER GRAVE . YOU CAN NEVER CHANGE THE WT A MESSANGER OF SATAN . YOU WANT TO DEBATE ME GO BACK AND LOOK UP SOME OF MY POSTS!!DO YOUR HOMEWORK THEN TWIST SOME SCPTURES AS I,VE SEEN YOU ALL READY DO . BUT I HOPE YOU SEE THE LIGHT AND STOP BEING A SPINE LESS JELLY FISH . YOU HAVE TO START BY SAVING YOUROWN ETERNAL LIFE . THATS WHAT THE WORD OF GOD HAS TO SAY. AND TO BAD THATS THE WAY I PUT IT . FREEDOM IN CHRIST TO ALL GAL 5 1-7 2 4-5 2 COR 3 17 1 COR 9-19 ACTS 20-29-30 15 5-10 GAL 1 1-12 3 23=26 COL 2 16-17 RO 614-19 ETC. ETC, JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
21:14:26
Comments
I WANT TO THANK ALL THE ABUSED LAMBS WHO I HAVE NOT ADKNOWLEGDED TRUST ME YOU ARE ALL IN MY PRAYS. JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
21:18:46
Comments
Bonnielyn – I'll answer your questions the same way you and your fellow worshippers answer mine, ok? With completely unrelated topics. 1. Steak sauce. 2. A Honda Accord. 3. Last week. 4. Yeah but United Airlines does not fly there. 5. Etc., etc…… There, how did you like that? Read my post, and you will see that the questions are for anyone to answer. I did not expect Bill Bowen to answer. There I said it. But of course, you still don't get it. Whenever you do post an intelligent answer, I'll get to your questions. And for the record, I HATE child molesters. They are the lowest form of human life imaginable. Even lower than apostates. Hope I didn't offend anyone here. Buster – I am unimpressed with EVERYONE that posts to this forum, and now I'm starting to lose faith in you. I'm not trying to convert you, no no noooooo no way, I am just trying to get you to face the facts, my friend. You say it is a cult defense to attack the person to detract from the message they deliver. Hmmm is that the pot calling the kettle black? I wonder if anyone here is guilty of doing that. Oh noooo no way, that's never been the case here lol. Buster, has anyone here attacked a person with an opposing view? Try to answer that one. My message was clear and you did not get it. If he did not participate in a judicial committee, in 20 years as an elder, involving child abuse, then Kentucky seems like a great place to live. The pedophile paradise he frequently talks about does not include Kentucky. If he did, where are HIS victims? How many silentlambs did HE shut up, and intimidate, and disfellowhip? They might start to go after him, since in their view, he is an accused child molester cover-upper. This stuff is real and it is worthy of serious discussion, as you say. My questions are very relevant. You just don't know how to answer them. I'll wait for your wacky response. P.S. – A racist has begun to post here. Great job folks!

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
21:34:19
Comments
To the person asking questions, why do you think WE have the answers to Bill's life we are not psychic how are WE supposed to know. If I want to ask Bill something there is a little button on the first page called E-mail, now see you click on it and poof you write an E-mail to Bill. Yes, Bill will WRITE back personally. I know this because my husband knew him from a congregation the mutally attended, I wrote told him and POOOFFFFFFFF he wrote back answering all my questions. In regards to the racist we have no control over who or in some cases WHAT posts here, we do live in America and there is this thing called Freedom of Speech I KNOW this is UNHEARD of amongst practising witnesses but the majority do practise it. Any questions??? I thought so Sheila

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
21:37:10
Comments
TO EVER ASKED ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE BECOMING WHITE IT,S WT OCT 1 1900 PG, 296 -7 4 151900 PG 122 EVOL PG 30 -1 WT 2 15 1904 PG 52 53 THERES MUCH mORE I,LL NEED TO LOOK IT UP TRY HTTP://WWW1.TIP.NL%7Et661020/wtcitaten/part1.hml i,m bad at finding sites so please give me an exact adress on that site you wanted me to see jw something . see i learned something new that covington was ali,s lawyer i,ll work that about ali tomorrow john

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
21:42:05
Comments
****the mole** there is only one issue john and that is why are you here. if you are not a member or suffered from a member why then do you degrade the others that visit this site. Why? i will take the lead and i will do that now. leave john! your racist comments and degrading talk does not belong here.....the mole************).................................................the mole***********Time has it where talks now are on gossip and the love of children. The ears of the weak are now being bent to hear the glory of the Society. Many of us have waited but none have come to address a real answer, for week i have sat and tried to read between the lines but no direct mention of any wrongdoing has been mentioned and will not be in the future. My friends and those of us with the same inclination have gathered silently and inquired over dinner the thoughts and ideas of NBC this past weekend. Whether the Organization wants to admit it or not, it was bad PR for them, and not addressing the issue has made it worse. The kindness of Jesus Christ seems so missing in our hall, any warmth of friendship seems to be replaced by a cold orgaizational approach that assumes the worst, gives no benfit of doubt, and viewed with forbearance patience as a weakness. Inimical to the intersts of the organization it has only one goal: uniformity and conformity. With its massive legal machine being put into motion and grinding along in an unfeeling, unrelenting way toward its ultimate objective, to crush anyone who speaks out and doesnt fit their mold. I find it hard to believe in some ways but my experience being involved with the religion since birth often negates that idea to defend the organization. I can think of nothing that would be more helpful to all of Jehovah's Witnesses everywhere to enable them to have a balanced, not a one-sided, view of what took place, the climate that prevails, these so called men connected to god to be so cold as to really think silencing members who cry out in pain, Reformation is the key and it begins from the inside out.......*******the mole***************

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
21:55:19
Comments
The 23,720 number is for the United States, Canada and some European countries. The witnesses in these regions total less than 2 million. (Check your yearbook) Also there is a question as how a person makes the list. Does he need to confess? Does he need to be convicted in a court of law, accused by two witnesses or exactly how? The Watchtower Society is the only one with these answers.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
22:17:14
Comments
Sheila, I do have a question. Since your speech is so free, ask Bill if he is an accused child-abuse-coverupper. Something no one here would DARE to do. We live in a free country, exercise your right. Oh wait, you don't want to. I thought so.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
22:23:34
Comments
20 Questions: If you will go back and do some research I believe you can find the answer to your own questions. (but I doubt that's what you want anyway) I remember when I first started to look at this site there was a video that JR Brown had made to repudiate Bill Bowen. In that video or related news article was a quote from Mr. Bowen's father and another statement by Bill Bowen. It mentioned a number of child molestation cases that the congregation had handled that Bill was aware of. This information is in all probability still on the silentlambs website. Possibly you are not aware that the entire body of elders does not handle each case. Three elders are assigned to handle each investigation and the elders do not discuss the private matter with other elders. So it is possible for a molestation case to transpire in a congregation and for very few of the elders to become involved. If two witnesses were not available then the information would be sealed in an envelope in a file cabinet. . . .. . . NOW what is your problem? You cannot force us to do your will and it really irritates you, doesn't it. Did you contemplate what would happen if I took your 20 questions to www. purelanguage.com or jwzone.com? What if I insisted someone answer them regarding Ted Jarcez? Do you realize that the moderator would delete the questions? Then delete my account and probably block my IP address? We have been patient with you, I have asked you to discuss the matter on an online forum. I have pointed out this is a guestbook and having a serious discussion here is like trying on do it on a party line telephone system. You have refused and you continue to persist in haranguing us. What is your point? Are you just trying to disrupt this board. Should the webmaster be contacted to block your IP address? I will answer anymore of your emails. Most of us post at JWD, we are the same people so talk to us there. NAN

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
22:28:50
Comments
WOW! WOW! WOW! CNN with CONNIE CHUNG Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM CST there will be an airing of an interview Bill Bowen, Heidi and Amber with Connie Chung. There may be an additional followup on Thursday.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
22:29:44
Comments
It has never been proven that no single disease is due to germs." - The Golden Age, Jan 16, 1924 From Rutheford until now lies and more lies

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
22:34:19
Comments
Hey Steak sauce boy! Go sell crazy some where else. We're all full up here! Do you have any proof that Bill sat in on any hearing that were cover-ups? Do you have 2 witnesses. And most important did it happen twice? If not then I recommend that you turn yourself in to your nearest friendly neighborhood elder(demigod) and be disfellowshiped. That is the policy right? (what a meathead)

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
22:35:33
Comments
Why would Bill be a in your words "coverupper", obviousley when confronted with a child abuse situation and getting the answers from the GB. He was not happy with the answers are you ignorant or what. One doesn't cover up abuse for years then see the light. Do you have ANY valid questions, or are you the one that has seen the abuse and turned the other way??? Has your child been a victim and you chose not to say anything, is that guilt I see in your refusal to ask Bill yourself...ahhhh yes now I see the guilty never want to confront the one that see's the wrong and tries to change it. I'm sorry that you choose or chose to do nothing. While Bill chose to speak out, the guilt must be tremendous Sheila

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
22:38:36
Comments
20 QUESTIONS IS A TROLL. QUIT PLAYING WITH HIM An Internet "troll" is a person who delights in sowing discord on the Internet. He (and it is usually he) tries to start arguments and upset people. You cannot negotiate with them; you cannot cause them to feel shame or compassion; you cannot reason with them. They cannot be made to feel remorse. For some reason, trolls do not feel they are bound by the rules of courtesy or social responsibility. http://members.aol.com/intwg/trolls.htm

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
22:52:49
Comments
I am not a Jehovah's Witness but I can say that yes, abuse happens everywhere and I had my share (physical) with my father. But if you are not safe in the "House of God" then where are you safe? My mother finally divorced him and married a pretty good guy. Why would it be demanded that people stay in a situation that is a burden they can't bare? Sexual abuse is an abomination and it seems that WTS rules say "JUDT DEAL WITH IT!" Acts 15 says that religous leaders should not do that.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
23:01:17
Comments
NAN - That's a lot of sealed envelopes, in 20 years. Are you going to silence me? Are you shunning me? I will file an appeal. I'll start a new website – Silentlambs II. We'll go on Dateline. We'll be one-sided, I promise. If any of you go to my site and post something intelligent, I'll call you a name. It's been real. Goodbye.

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
23:04:58
Comments
seq. jesus loves that your exposing the wt in ohio way to go !!!!i,m back to work and my truck is rolling again . i had the pleasure of stopping to talk to 3 different groups of wt members today the first was great they said they were from the spanish cong. i said ok do you SPEAK ENGLISH .THEY DID WE TALKED FOR 10 MINUTES ABOUT THE CATHOLIC MOLESTERS !!OH BOY ALL 6 OF THEM TOOK TURNS KICKING THE CATHOLICS MOLESTERS. WOW THEY HATE CHILD MOLESTERS !~!!!FUNNY WHEN I CHANGED THE SUBJECT TO WT CHILD MOLESTERS . ALL OF A SUDDEN NO ONE UNDERSTANDED ENGLISH SO SEE WT MEMBERS ARE LAIRS AND I TOLD THEM SO IN MY BROKEN SPANISH !!!!THIS HAPPENED TWICE TODAY THE THIRD PARTY MAY HAVE KNOWN ME CAUSE I NEVER SAW TWO OLD MEN WITH CANGO UP A HILL SO FAST BUT I TOLD THEM TO MAKE SURE THEY PUT IT DOWN AS TIME FOR STOPING AND TALKING ABOUT GOD. ON THE OTHER ONE LADY TOLD ME SHE DIDN,T READ THE NEW WT ABOUT WT CHILD MOLESTERS ETC. ETC. SO WITHOUT BEING NASTY WITH THE HELP OF THE HOLY SPRIT I WITNESSESED 11 WT MEMBERS STRAIGHT OUT LIE IN THE NAME OF THE CREATOR. NOT COUNTING THE 2 OLD MEN WITH CANES. SO GO AHEAD JW DERENDERS TELL ME HOW THEY WERE TRUE TO THE CREATOR BY LYING. I,M WAITING FOR YOUR NEXT WATCHTOWER LIE IE BUSTERS POST . HOW SWEET THE WORDS OF A FALSE PROPHECY TICKLE THE EARS. JOHN J_CHITO@msn.com freedom in christ to all john

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
23:14:09
Comments
1900's??? Do you have any idea what is was LIKE in the 1900's? Do you think those people had the knowledge people do now? Do you think they had TV's and cell phones? Get real! Cheesewiz, JW's GROW and LEARN, actually at a much better rate then some others. Using something from the 1900's is hysterical. Get to the 21st century.--JFK

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
23:24:24
Comments
*************THE MOLE*********I think this simple post says it all...forgive me for using you, but it is a great thought to use.....*****THE MOLE*******IM glad for those who posted cnn, i will watch it...my special assembly is this weekend ..as i promised i will inform you of what is to happen.........since my letter i have recieved alot of flack ....those of you who read know what i mean....to answer someone who said why not leave the organization?.it may be sooner than you think.tuesday is my bookstudy and the brothers now want to have a shepperding call with me.....to bad those yellers out there have no clue want really happens inside,maybe understanding is not a quality, spelling could be the issue.,,,, this will be my last response to those idiots..i will only continue to inform and not get involved in the stupidity of senseless bebate..i will continue as i started for those of you who like the info i present for those needing it...here is the quote...enjoy' This is for the whiner that thinks we are having a JW bashing party.*** This is no party. This is an Emergency Room. * Yes this site is full of angry, hurt, confused, insecure, bitter people. What do you think genuinely abused people should be like? They have been driven away from Jah by JW's. Do you think they should feel all warm and fuzzy towards them? 8 This site is full of hurt, confused, ABUSED people trying to make sense of the horror of being neglected and discounted by the very spititual shepherds they trusted their everlasting life to. Now they struggle to get back to Jah, with dignity, without the abusive shepherds beating on them. To regain trust in God after such a heart-breaking beating of the spirit is a difficult road to travel. Yes, there are a lot of scriptures tossed around here. That shows that the WTS has not taken away the basic love of God's Word from these sheep. Leave us alone and let us heal in our way. We have open sores, oozing pustulant sores. It's ugly to look at. If you can't take it maybe you should get out of our Emergency Room. *** Loris

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
23:28:09
Comments
*****THE MOLE**i forgot..spell check my typing, a good assistant is hard to come by......

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
23:42:13
Comments
When you decide to leave the manipulations of the Watchtower, and the insane directives of the Governing Body, you can go to the real LORD JESUS CHRIST! He alone is the One who can give us everlasting life. He is more wonderful than the sad, pathetic caricture that the Watchtower presents. The REAL Lord Jesus Christ is waiting for you to come to him for salvation. Reading every watchtower and Awake, attending meetings, do field service, attending Assembly indoctrination sessions, refusing to salute the flag, or celebrate holidays, will do ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to secure the love and grace of God Almighty. As Jeus told the religionists of his day,"You search the scriptures, for in them you THINK you have eternal life, BUT9 And this is the important part) These (the scriptures) are they that tesify of ME. But you won't come to ME that you might have life". I always ask every JW the same question. "Have you gone to the Lord Jesus Christ for eternal life?" it never amazes me to see the look of consternation on their faces. How sad. Only TWO-SIDED relationship with the living Christ will assure us of life eternal. He communicates with me, and I communicate with HIM! What blessed communion. No concern with man-made rules and some unapproachable GB. As the grerat hymn of the faith states- "Blessed assurance Jesus is mine. O what a fortaste of glory devine! Heir of salvation. , purchase of God. Born of His Spirit, washed in His blood. This is MY story, This is my song. Praising my Saviour all the day long!" Jesus never fails. You will bow at his great name either in this life, or be forced to do so in the next. "Come unto me all ye who are heavy-laden( especially with man made religious burdens) and I will give you REST!" He can't lie. Take Him at His word. he's not like the Watchtower taskmasters. He promises that if you will come to Him, He will in NO WISE cast you out! What a wonderful Saviour! Trust Him and try Him for yourself! Lawrence

Remote User:

Date:
13 Aug 2002
Time:
23:56:05
Comments
In some way's the elders are also being abused, for when a case is exposed, the elders, who have followed company policy, are dismissed/prosecuted/whatever. Where is the loyalty of the company to people who have loyaly followed company policy. Not only the policy needs to be changed, but the thinking of elders needs to be adjusted to realise that following these policies will leave them unsupported and vulnerable. When the elders finaly realise that, at the end of the day, they will be held resposible for their actions, then they will stop blindly following these abusive policies. steve

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
00:08:35
Comments
EVERYone is left unsupported and vulnerable when they need affirmation, support and loyalty. There's NOTHING to take care of those in need. Some in each congregation will help but it's not, usually, the entire congregation giving support. Very weak in this area. Needs organizing FROM THE TOP DOWN!--Conchita

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
00:10:36
Comments
hey rich your all f___k up me amd you are going to talk uyou contridict yourself so much your an abomonation to the creator . no one in your cong. worships the creator in truth or sprit because of the simple fact ya,ll are following a false christ you need a lesson in humilitation you bnetter read proverbs and apply it to the wt . you speak about demons in the street what about the demons in wt publications as you have all ready amitteded about child molesters you talked about buster i don,t even know him but i can see he,s got more knowledge than you might ever have . you see it,s all about RESEARCH !!!!!!! you talk crap when i was 11 i saw right through the wt . and i was just a kid !! what,s that saying for you and cong. you think i don,t understand the wt go out and find the biggest fool who will brlieve any thing we say .anyone who gives out wt,s and has not tested every thing they print and i mean everything. no matter were the quote came from. thier are bareing false witnesses in the name of what a 12th. century cathiloc monk calls jehovah . you posted here you read crisis of conscience i think your lying quote one page of that then i,ll beleive you i don,t you can .cause your a lair there is not one topic you can show me were the wt was choosen by god without lying and twisting the bibl;e , J_CHITO@msn.com tel 19173710332 i get free nights and weekends you call me and we,ll see whats what ....your in for a big suprise. freedom in christ to all something RICH DOES NOT HAVE JOHN.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
00:35:33
Comments
Anyone that cannot express herself or himself without using FOUL LANGUAGE has no right to tell anyone else about what's in the Bible. Get some soap and wash your mouth out!

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
00:39:24
Comments
They SHOULD devote one page in the back of their publications that give reference to the publications that they used to make quotes, etc. They can use fine print to get it all in. I don't like reading, "One source says," or something like that. One can't use such publications as a part of a research paper because the source of quotes in many articles isn't readily available -- even if you call the WBTS and ask them.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
00:43:05
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
00:47:49
Comments
TO BUSTER AND RICH I THINK RICH HAS THE RIGHT IDEA BUT HIS MIND IS SO SCREWED RICH DON,T KNOW IF HE,S WITH THE WT OR CHRIST HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE,S TALKING ABOUT RICH YOU HAVE TO MAKE A CHOICE YOUR OUT OF YOUR GOD GIVEN SPRITUAL MIND YOU NEED SO MUCH HELP . RICH YOU HAVE A COMPUTER DO RESEARCH YOU MUST BR YOUNG . I WON,T CALL YOU NO NAMES BUSTER MAYBE YOU CAN TALK SOME SENSE INTO RICHES HEAD I,M GOING TO SLEEP JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
00:54:28
Comments
To 20-Questions who still hasn't bothered to give himself a name/handle, so we will still call him/her 20 Q's--- Writing to Bill Bowen via the Guestbook is not likely to get a response, since as you surely are aware, he is busy attending appeal hearings, being interviewed by newspapers and television, not to mention sending out emails on the SL email list, taking phone calls from VICTIMS, dealing with those who have lawsuits going, caring for his family, making a living, etc. People should not post to the guestbook if they REALLY WANT A REPLY from B.Bowen. Why not pick up the PHONE and call him as suggested? If you can't afford it, then, fine, write him a letter/email. If he thinks you are SINCERE, I'm sure he would reply to you, and then you can submit the reply to this Guestbook "for all to see," as you state. -- Really, as if B.Bowen has time to sit reading this Guestbook every day. Your intentions are suspect, to say the least. WRITE HIM, CALL HIM. --- As for name calling, when people like yourself do not give yourself a name, it is reasonable to lump you in with the other suspicious nameless characters who are here to cause trouble. Didn't you like Bozo the Clown and Ronald McDonald when you were a kiddie? --- SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:05:45
Comments
HOW PETTY to pick on people's spelling and/or typographical errors. Not everyone had the privilege of private school education. This shows how SHALLOW you are, not to mention SELF-RIGHTEOUS. Such a time and bandwidth waster you are. Grow up! and READ Eccl. 7:16 if you know how to use a Bible, that is. /SLC ----- Nameless and/or Catch 22 wrote: "This is fun. This went from “Lets get them” and “This is war” etc., etc., to “Ignore them” and “Do not argue religion with them (sic)”. Hey I'm curious, did you all go to the same school? You can't spell. Here's some examples from the mole “except” instead of “accept”, “thier” instead of “their”, “minersterial” instead of “ministerial” and the kicker “benighted ridiculars” instead of “benighted ridiculers”. And that's just the mole. The leaders of your movement can't spell, that's embarrassing. Mole, I sincerely doubt that you are a Ministerial Servant. If you are, you're not standing up for your beliefs and making them heard in your hall, as they would remove you faster that SLC can fire off a misspelled post. If you have voiced your opinion, then that would make you a liar about being an MS. Catch 22."

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:07:48
Comments
BRAVO to whoever wrote this: "Brother 20 Questions: I see no particular reason Bill Bowen should answer your questions. I had questions for my body of elders, for the circuit overseer, for the district overseer and for the GB regarding Child Abuse and no one answered me. The Silentlambs organization has been unable to received answers to ANY SINGLE question asked to the policy makers at WBTS. So what makes you special?" ---- GOOD QUESTION!!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:13:36
Comments
Claudine! You are priceless! And I might add to your on-target reasoning and questions to 20-Q's: Jehovah and Jesus also look at CURRENT behavior, not PAST actions (as long as anyone has repented, including B.Bowen if he WAS involved in prior coverups, by his actions has definitely SHOWN repentence). Has the GB YET SHOWN REPENTENCE and TURNED AROUND from their bad ways? /SLC ----- Claudine wrote: "we don't care what Bill "did", we care about what he is doing NOW. That is called discussion between peers and/or HEARING THE ANSWER, also known as listening. ********you want to control the questions and the answers - can't do that here, only at the KH is that allowed and encouraged!" ---- LOL, CE! So true so true. Love ya/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:15:34
Comments
Love those scriptures!!! Great reply, Claudine!!! /SLC ----- CE wrote: " Luke 14:3 Even the Pharisees knew enough to keep silent.**********From Claudine directed to 20 questions. No answer required!!!"

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:20:21
Comments
I GOT 20 QUESTIONS FOR THE GB. DON,T THINK THEY WILL GET PAST THE 1ST. I MAILED THE GB SUCH A LETTER 1 AND A HALF YRS, AGO NEVER A REPLY JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:40:23
Comments
THANKS LINDA for the post about Loving Thy Neighbor. You are SO RIGHT. It is exactly those NOW OBVIOUS points that we were blinded to in our past JW-years. And I agree, like you described, in the past few months it's like my eyes are WIDE OPEN to see/hear these SIMPLE truths about the REALITY of what these scriptures mean and how they were NOT applied in the congs. My personal favorites which melted my heart was realizing what these really mean (i.e., the scales fell off my eyes regarding these scriptures recently): 1 Cor.12:4-30 & Eph.4:11; and Matt.25:34-40. Thanks again for sharing that info from the forum. /SLC ------- Linda had written: "...This really came at a good time for me. Only in the last couple of years have I had the slightest desire to hear any doctrinal talk whatsoever. Before then, I would get furious and leave the room, not wanting to hear one bit of it. I've now come to the point where I have lots of questions, which I've been posting on another site on a message board. The information above is what I've been asking about. I thought maybe some of you would be interested in reading this too. Linda Thoman Linthoman@hotmail.com

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:51:35
Comments
The DIck Tracy Squads are chomping at the bit! Thanks Mr. Mole for your observations from the fox hole, and the excerpts from assembly and convention platforms. It's nice to be reminded the kind of propaganda that is being bellowed again and again. /SLC ----- The Mole wrote: "Beware all; they have started their witch-hunt to look for apostates within their own organization."

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:54:18
Comments
The only activity the JWs use with their FEET is trampling on each other, their neighbors, the world; AND, last but not least, they have a propensity for sticking their feet in their mouth. /SLC ----- The Mole wrote: "Will the Elders wash my feet as Christ our leader did?"

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
01:59:13
Comments
Another no-name JW wrote: "Jehovah God views ALL of his people the same. Each one has the same value and worth to him no matter how much or how little they can do." ----- Then WHY is the "counting of your time" required? If Jehovah doesn't care how much or how little a person does, then why does the Pharisaic GB require TIME SLIPS in order for the friends to PROVE their worthiness? --- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:14:41
Comments
Hi John: The link where I wanted you to post about the WT saying the blacks could pray in order to become white... It is the same link where they were talking about Ali having Covington as his attorney re: the draft. I didn't save the URL, but I did post it in this guestbook in my original request. It was a thread at www.jehovahs-witnesses.com, and the Topic was concerning an article/report written by an AA giving his opinions on JWs, and in that same thread they brought up Ali/Covington. And THANKS for the specific WT issue! Your are one walking-library! Agape/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:18:49
Comments
WHY does this annoying person refuse to do as everyone here has suggested? If you want to know these things, EMAIL BILL YOURSELF! We could care less if he covered up in the past, because, as already stated numerous times, whatever he did or did not do in the past re: coverups, he has redeemed himself a thousand times over. You are showing yourself to be such a twit because if you really WANTED an answer, you'd write B.Bowen YOURSELF. Are you lazy or what? Afraid, You Are Afraid? /SLC --------- No Name Wrote AGAIN: "Sheila, I do have a question. Since your speech is so free, ask Bill if he is an accused child-abuse-coverupper. Something no one here would DARE to do. We live in a free country, exercise your right. Oh wait, you don't want to. I thought so."

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:28:23
Comments
JFK: I believe the point they were trying to make (quoting prior WTs, etc.) is this: Since the GB, Knorr, Rutherford, Russell, et al, CLAIM to be the MOUTHPIECE of God, and that GOD SPEAKS ONLY THRU THEM, that they SHOULD have MORE ACCURATE INFORMATION than the rest of the populace. However, they keep proving that they know not much of anything, nothing more than what society in general learns as time goes by (science, medicine, etc.) --- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:31:27
Comments
MOLE: As I already wrote earlier, but now I see your other comment, I SAY THANK YOU and yes please keep the info coming. I, for one, appreciate your efforts. And best wishes on your upcoming shepherding call. Agape/SLC ----- Mole wrote: ".i will continue as i started for those of you who like the info i present for those needing it..."

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:34:35
Comments
THANKS LAWRENCE for the inspiring post and for the scriptural reference/reminder. Are you the same lawrence who wrote previously that you research JWs? If so, do you have a website? Thanks again. SLC ----- Lawrence wrote: ""You search the scriptures, for in them you THINK you have eternal life, BUT (And this is the important part) These (the scriptures) are they that tesify of ME. But you won't come to ME that you might have life".

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:38:35
Comments
Thanks for the definition of a troll. Nice to be reminded of the OFFICIAL definition. People like that must be in much pain to act that way. --- /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:42:31
Comments
Thanks John for the report from your field service with the 3 groups of JWs you chatted with. I do believe what you say about the chat on Catholic Church sex abuse coverups/pedophiles, etc. and the JWs reaction. I would have acted the same way when a JW. Sad to say, but true. --- I have to agree with whoever said, go easy on the curse words, especially you know, the F word. We don't want to start going in that direction. And, c'mon, can you really expect all JWs to automatically see your point of view immediately? Can you not cut Rich some slack? You say you've been researching/knowing since 11 years old. Not everyone is that far ahead. Please give people time to catch up. Many Thanks! Agape/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:44:02
Comments
QUESTION: Re: CNN on Wednesday night: Would anyone know if we will be able to watch it ONLINE? I do not get CNN, and I'd sure hate to miss this! Thanks for any info. Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:45:45
Comments
WELCOME LARRY and thanks for posting. We're glad you have found the site to be a "shock absorber." Do take care and check back in now and then. Love/SLC ----- Larry wrote: "It has helped me get over the shock, and grow, hereing everyones opinion. Larry"

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:48:07
Comments
WELCOME to the Not-JW who was physically abused by their father. Glad things are much better for you. Thanks for sharing your experience and your feelings. Love/SLC ----- Not a JW wrote: "I am not a Jehovah's Witness but I can say that yes, abuse happens everywhere and I had my share (physical) with my father. But if you are not safe in the "House of God" then where are you safe? My mother finally divorced him and married a pretty good guy. Why would it be demanded that people stay in a situation that is a burden they can't bare? Sexual abuse is an abomination and it seems that WTS rules say "JUDT DEAL WITH IT!" Acts 15 says that religous leaders should not do that."

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
02:49:53
Comments
QUESTION: Does anyone remember WHERE the pictures were that Bill took of his hearing when they put the garbage bags on the windows? I know I saw the pictures but can't remember where. Did they come thru the SL Email Iist? Or did I see them somewhere on this site? Or did I see them at J-W.com? I can't remember and took tired to go hunting. If anyone knows right off the top of their head, it would be greatly appreciated. Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
03:05:01
Comments
What it means to JW's now that Bill Bowen is DF'ed --- Aug 13, 2002 16:14 from another forum --- I take you to the future, to a elder meeting with someone in a serious state of depression ... --- It is the backroom to a Kingdom Hall, and three people are sitting in a room. One is a woman, and the other are two elders. The woman sites down and starts crying. The elders act caring and ask her what is wrong. To which she replies, "I am dealing with a issue from my childhood and I am having a hard time handling it right now." --- The elders give her a moment and then ask her what the problem is, thinking of course that she is about to confess a sin that they suspected anyway. --- The woman responds, "When I was eight I spent the night at my best friends house at the time, and Brother Smith raped me." To which the elders act shocked, as Brother Smith is now a Presiding Overseer in the neighboring congregation. --- The elders speak softly and with a caring sounds and say, "Are you sure this happened, as we know that as children we can see things different then they really happened. Plus, Brother Smith is such a outstanding elder. It seems so unlikely that he would do such a thing." --- The woman draws back her tears for a moment in shock, and replies "I know what happened, and I have asked for help before." --- The elders give the classic shocked look, "what do you mean you asked for help?" --- Again the woman pulls back tears, although you can hear the pain in her voice, "When I was 15 I talked to the elders and told them then, but they told me that since I had no witnesses they could not do anything. My parents listened to them and told me to try to handle this without making to much trouble. I was treated like a liar!" --- The elders look back and forth at each other in a lost look, "I am sorry that happened!" --- The lady then starts to cry more and stumbles into a thought that she did not want to bring up, "I saw online at this site called silentlambs that others have had this problem too, and I just needed help. I cry about this every night and I know this man knows what he did to me, and I hate to see him. He is out there in the assemblies giving talks, and acting all holy and right when he did this to me and ruined my life" --- The elders shift into a stern look, "Did you say you went to an apostate site?" --- The woman looks caught off guard, "no I went to a support site for people in this same situation" and blows her nose from all the crying. --- The elders open their Bible and begin counseling, "don't you think you should go to Jehovah first, before you go to a apostate site that is bent on harming Jehovah and his organization?" --- The lady stops crying, but her voice still shows signs of the recent tears, "What? I am here for help, how did this go into apostate information?" --- The elders loss all emotion and start looking angry, "The man who runs that site is disfellowshipped and is against the organization, wouldn't you say that makes him a apostate?" --- The woman looks even more upset, but begins to build in strength, "I don't care, the site helped me and brought me to the level that I could talk about this again with you and to seek help." --- The elders speak abruptly, "Well you need to give more thought to your actions we will need to consider this in what you are saying. As you may be speaking with Satan influencing your thoughts and we have to be careful for the well being of the congregation." Pausing to open their book bag, "here is some information on the danger of seeking help from the internet, and apostates." --- The woman stands in disgust, "I came her for help on being raped as a child and all you want to talk about is apostate information ... how is that helping me. I am disgusted!" She then walks out and is heard crying harder then before. --- The elders look at one another and speak judicially, "I see that Satan has her now, we may have a bigger problem here then we thought", to which the other elder nods in agreement. --- ... Yes the world has changed since the disfellowshipping for the Witnesses. Is it going to really help them? --- My thoughts -- Dragon

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
09:26:09
Comments
Re: Remote User: Date: 14 Aug 2002 Time: 01:54:18 --- No, they won't wash your feet. You're not a regular pioneer (which is likened to being an apostle). Even then, the pioneers would have to wash THEIR feet. SOME got it really confused.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
09:32:08
Comments
To SLC: "No-Name" did NOT say that Jehovah God doesn't CARE. It's that he doesn't value someone who can do extraordinary things over those who can't. He accepts each one for what he or she CAN DO and DOES DO but he doesn't elevate one "brother" over an other. He accepts the BEST from each one and the BEST from each one EQUALS ITSELF OUT as the BEST from each one takes the SAME amount of effort. Remember the widow with one small coin? It's NOT that Jehovah does not care, it's that he's accepting each one of us as we are and with what each one can give and HE will NOT "play favorites" and raise one up over another. Remember that even the KINGS OF ISRAEL were to remember that they were BROTHERS with their subjects and were not to elevate themselves over them. Do you understand this point now? It's not a PUT DOWN. It's ASSURING that Jehovah God doesn't play the games with people, individuals, that a lot of people play AGAINST one or others. Jehovah God isn't playing a human game of monopoly with us.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
09:38:38
Comments
Re: Remote User: Date: 13 Aug 2002 Remote User: Date: 13 Aug 2002 Time: 22:28:50 Comments WOW! WOW! WOW! CNN with CONNIE CHUNG Wednesday evening at 8:00 PM CST there will be an airing of an interview Bill Bowen, Heidi and Amber with Connie Chung. There may be an additional followup on Thursday. ------- READ THE POSTS, then you'll know what time.--Conchita

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
09:43:33
Comments
JFK, The POINT of the quote is YES, Rutherford was in the 1900's but he was a vessel of Jehovah's spirit, he prophecied and directed people's lives. He claimed to be a leader and just as now a LEADER is reponsible for what they do. Did he ever correct his ignorance and say "oops" guess I was wrong, nope. Just as today the GB will not admit it's wrong. 1975???? Ohhhh that was the 70's geesh they didn't know any better, 1980's oh again why bring up the past....ad nauseum.......

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
09:44:20
Comments
I just know that people come into the JW's and they don't realize there's a whole lot more than quitting another church and not celebrating holidays. They're proud of these changes in them and, I guess, it DOES take a lot for a person to do that. However, there needs to be a PERSONALITY CHANGE and many just keep plodding along in their old thinking, customs and habits -- perhaps not overtly but their old thinking and doing is still there. They always find others in the congregation or organization that support them, too, because THEY haven't changed their personalities. So much of what we're seeing and hearing has to do with the way they were taught to think, talk and act -- or the way their environment enforced. If they grew up beating children or wives, they beat children or wives. If they grew up hating, they hate, too. If they grew up violated, they violate. Each one MUST see the need to change themselves over to the loving and peaceable personality that Christ is. If we don't see that need, Jehovah doesn't want us. Jehovah, the Bible describes for us, has a lot of empathy and tears for the abused. HE is on the side of the down-trodden ones -- not on the side of those doing the down-trodding.--Helena

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
09:58:18
Comments
Trying to change the WTS or to even explain to the GB how thier OPINIONS of the scriptures DISTROY lives and families is like trying to polish a turd. Someone needs to get the GB board members some silk robes and a golden ring.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
10:50:06
Comments
The recent developments regarding child abuse is beyond appalling. How can fathers and other relatives of the abused be so blinded. What if these abusers molested or raped their wives rather than their children?? Would they respond differently? Saving face has been taken to the deplorable degree of causing lifelong trauma for the abused. At least the Catholic church admits the wrongdoing and appears to be taking action to stop the abusing. How is it that the WT organization thinks they are above the law resulting in greater trauma to the health and well-being of our children. Hallelujah to Mr. Bowen for speaking out, stepping up, and doing all he can do to protect the abused and provide a means to aid in their healing process. Rosemarie at: rozie2u@hotmail.com

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
11:20:17
Comments
Hello Silentlambs, I am so proud of the way that you are handling the issue of child molestation amoung the Jehovah's Witnesses. Have you considered getting in touch with the Oprah Winfrey show to see if they will take interest in this issue. You know that she was a victim of child sexual abuse when she was 9 years old, and it is an issue that she does not take lightly. I think that if you can get her interested she can make a big difference in getting the message accross to many. mom_v1@coastalnet.com

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
11:31:28
Comments
To Aug 14 02:34:35 Yes I do research on the WTS and other cults as well. I was once a member of a oneness pentecostal cult myself. Anyway, I have been able to talk to several JWs over the past few weeks about their child molestation policy. I have given info to my neighbors, most of whom are appalled. One neighbor now asks the ones who come to her door, "Are either of you pedophiles"? That is the first question she asks them. It's a hoot!!! Then she asks can she get a list of all known pedophiles in their congregation, so she can protect her two children from them should they come to her door. The witnesses are aghast that outsiders should consider them sinners like THEY do non-witnesses. I have dozens of the out of print publications and will use them often. I espescially like to show them the quote prphesying that Jehovah whould destoy the churches and church-members wholesale in 1918. I can usally tell which witness is newer to the denomination, because they usually don't say much, so I start asking them most of the questions. Of course, the more experienced witness will ALWAYS interupt and try to give answers. I tell that one that I was not talking to them, and ask the other one "Can't you answer with your own thoughts? Does your friend always try to speak for you"? My goal is to try to give the trainee something to think about before they are completely lobotomized by the WT. I always mention my email address a few times in the conversation (it's a really simple one) and have actually been contacted by a few of the newer converts who have not yet learned to be afraid of "opposers". When I go to hospitals to do visitation (like the Lord taught us to do) I often see Watchtowers and Awake mags lying around in the waiting area. I used to take them and throw them away. Now I boldly write WWW.SILENTLAMBS.ORG and WWW.FREEMINDS.ORG on the front covers. This , of course, leaves the next witness who happens by in a quandry. "Should I leave the mag another brother left here, or should I remove it because of the "apostate" website referenced on the cover."? And of course, often another person will see what I wrote and ask about it, so I have an opportunity to tell them about the sillent lambs and witness about the Lord Jesus Christ. Let's be creative, and use this SCANDAL to point others to the REAL LORD JESUS CHRIST! Anger can be a great catalyst for creativity, huh? By the way, have you ever noticed how Jesus is RARELY given His full titile (the LORD JESUS CHRIST) in WT publications and everyday JW conversation? As for the frequent mispellings, let me say this. Often we are typing so fast that we don't take time to check our spelling. I am college-educated and love to read.I have a pretty good grasp of the "king's English", but I often find glaring mistakes after I see my posts. So let's not make too much of it, OK? Let's keep fighting the good fight of faith. the Lord Jesus is our Captain and He will lead us to victory! Praise His Mighty Name! Always remember an old saying my Dad used to say-"Throw a brick into a pack of dogs, and the one that is hit will bark the loudest"! We're throwing the bricks, with the aid of the media. The WT dogs being hit, and boy, aren't they barking? Ha Ha Ha!

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
12:38:04
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
12:46:36
Comments
To the author of the post dated "14 Aug 2002 11:31:28": I find it interesting that your method of dealing with Jehovah's Witnesses is to target the "newer" Witness whom you count on to "[not] say much". Indeed, you state that you don't allow the more experienced Witness to aid the one whom you've selected for your special attention. To me that sounds VERY much like the pattern of behavior one would expect from a pedophile: cornering a less experienced person for your own twisted "entertainment"! I would also add that you have no right to discard or deface someone else's literarture left in a public place for people to read. Feel free to leave your own literature nearby so that people may choose for themselves; but kindly desist from adding your graffiti to the Watchtower and Awake. Besides, we just replace the soiled issues with fresh ones! -Brocha

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
12:56:04
Comments
RE: Remote User: Date: 14 Aug 2002 Time: 09:43:33 Comments ------- So? Jehovah God is using imperfect humans to do his work. He says he COULD make even the ROCKS talk but, instead, he uses imperfect humans. Psalms says that if it's error that he looks at, NO ONE would have a chance. YOU are only looking for imperfect human error. What you're talking about IS NOT REPRESENTATIVE of the vital information he dispensed IN SPITE OF his errors. THOSE books helped thousands of people to restore themselves in their faith of the True God and to give them courage to clean up their lives or to restore their resolve to live good lives. You're a NIT PICKER. Your arguments do NOT hold any validity when looking AT THE WHOLE PICTURE. There are people here that do not agree with how this situation, in particular, is being handled. DON'T MISTAKE THAT to mean that we do not agree that the ONLY PLACE TO FIND GOOD BIBLE EDUCATION is STILL through the WBTS! You're trying to EXPLOIT the hurt and damaged people and sway them away from Bible truth with irrelevant errors that HAVE been straightened out as people have matured and learned to think and do things differently. How do YOU know that I, personally, am not BLACK? If BLACK PEOPLE can see through it, why can't you?--JFK (My choice of JFK isn't by accident; he was FULL of imperfection, however, he DID see the inequality in people by color and wealth and wanted to help those who were suffering from such. Does his gross immorality CHANGE his heart condition in that area? No, people have imperfections but that doesn't change who they are in a desired purpose or purposes. Why don't you nit pick the Apostle Paul? HE says that his MIND knew the right things to do but his FLESH kept getting in the way. Yet, he did NOT give in to the flesh and, even under seemingly difficult emotional distraction, continued to do what was right in the MIND. He did not let his heart to become carried away with his flesh. He led himself as though one would bridle, blind and ride a horse. You CANNOT, legitimately, carry your argument on minor errors in material that is, otherwise, excellent Bible revelations in a time of Biblical darkness -- the 1900's. Really, with YOUR argument, just about EVERYTHING WRITTEN is invalid because of some errors an imperfect person made in judgment, knowledge, or opinion in a part of the writings. NO ONE can "stand" in such an argument. You're really a petty person.--JFK.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
13:19:46
Comments
Re: Remote User: Date: 14 Aug 2002 Time: 11:31:28 ------- I'm sure people just like you were used by Satan the Devil to exploit, harass and attempt to destroy the true Christian congregation because they were EXTREMELY flawed in many ways. He who lives in glass house shouldn't throw stones. You're really not interested in rectifying this situation are you? You're only interested in messing with immature or broken minds and hearts. I can't see you're offering anything better and it's NOT a situation of hahahaha. Don't use this support group to exploit.--JFK

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
13:25:06
Comments
20Q's: Gotta love that name. Anyway, I think I made a pretty good case as to the irrelavance of your series of questions. Of course I cannot answer the specifics, but I made a run at categorizing some of the possible answers. I still believe you are too caught up in the messenger and deciding not to listen to the message. I still wanna push ahead in the conversation, unless you want to stop it here. So, do you have reason to disbelieve what is being presented on this site as evidence and testimony? - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
13:30:10
Comments
PRESS RELEASE Wednesday, August, 14 Contact: William H. Bowen: KY 270-527-5350, cell 270-559-5345 silentlambs.org Heidi Meyer: MN 763-360-2680, Michele Sandstrom 718-894-0626 William H. Bowen Interviews with Connie Chung Abuse Survivors Featured Two Nights in a Row At 7:00 PM CST tonight William H. Bowen will do an interview on CNN with Connie Chung regarding cover up of child abuse allegations within the Jehovah's Witness organization. “I abhor people who protect child molesters, tonight you are going to learn who they are.” Bowen comments. An disfellowshipping announcement will be made at the Draffenville congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses, 86 Foust-Sledd Road, Benton, Kentucky, on Thursday, August 15th. Bowen plans to attend the meeting and object to the announcement. Heidi Meyer, 22, of ST Paul MN who recently filed a lawsuit against her local congregation and the home office located in Brooklyn, NY for being silenced by elders when she came forward to report being molested by a fellow congregation member. “I was told I would be disfellowshipped if I told anyone.” She says, “The Governing Body are hurting abuse survivors and refusing to change policy thus leaving children in danger.” Amber Long, 22, also of St Paul, MN, who first appeared on the lawsuit as “Jane Doe” will speak on the program also. Amber was fearful of repercussions from the organization when she initially filed. Now she is going public with her allegations also. “I was afraid of being disfellowshipped for speaking out, but with how they have treated Mr. Bowen, I no longer care.” Amber states. “Children have been hurt and someone has to say something.” Thursday, Michele Sandstrom, of Brooklyn, New York, will also interview and discuss how she and her mother were silenced with threats of disfellowshipping when they tried to warn others about the man who molested her. Jehovah's Witnesses have one million members in the USA and over fifteen million attend services around the world. It is their goal to call at every home in America at least once a year.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
13:39:12
Comments
How's it going John? Relax baby! Mr Big's gonna take care of you. hahhahaha. ***** i wouldn't read anything into that one John, its just my sense of humour and love of Bond films. well i read your reasonings and i agree with you entirely. shocked?? but maybe i'm just lying hey? im a JW, and so all your preconceived ideas of what a JW is, is what i truly am? well we have another fine judge in our midst. the history of the WT would be laughable if it wasn't such a serious issue. but then, the Catholic Church is so clean isnt it? maybe you would encourage me to do a lot of research into them too. im sure they'd come out a lot cleaner than the WT. OH if only id prayed to Mary instead of Jehovah! if only i'd taken part in the crusades. if only i'd taken part in the inquisition and burned heretics such as myself at the stake. if only i'd been part of Hitler's 5th column. if only i'd help nazi's escape Europe at the end of WW2 and had horded stolen Jewish gold. if only i'd been abused by catholic nuns at boarding school just like my dad was. if only i could make sense of the doctrine of purgatory, then just maybe i'd be part of the true faith, the original true church that Christ set up, and boy i'm sure Christ is proud of them. listen John, "i'm simply trying, then, to be a Christian, a disciple of God's Son. i cannot see why anyone would want to be anything else. i cannot understand how anyone could hope to be anything more."(pg353 crisis of conscience) did i pick that quote out of thin air? maybe a demon entered it into my mind! the odds would likely favour that i read that book John. i think its a possibility that your latter post just shows you up to be the person you really are. i hope im wrong. i don't see the need persuade JWs to renounce what bible truth they have just because of WT history. or would you say EVERYTHING they believed is completely wrong? if that is what you believe then that doesnt give much hope to any Christian denomination. i think your standpoint is of sectarianism. there are many people like you who live in Northern Ireland, on both sides of the divide. why dont you go over there and start blabbing your mouth off about how wonderful Catholicism is. those who are on the same wavelength as you, but are protestant would certainly find ways of making you quiet. *** if you think you'll destroy the JW org by trying to convince JWs that its all wrong then you're defeated before you start. the only way you can weaken this pyramid is by hitting the top. ask yourself how this org has become strong over the past 80 years. it's been in a legal way, and that the only way you'll break them. if you break the top then the whole pyramid will break also. at the moment you're banging your head against a brick wall. i'll tell you what John, post me a list of questions you would like me to answer at:
thereflex84@hotmail.com
and i will gladly answer them because you really dont know what i believe, although you say what i'm supposed to believe just because you know me to be a JW. *** if nothing of what i've just said makes sense then maybe you should just 'wait on Jehovah'. :-) (i dont have to swear to get back at you) Rich

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
13:47:10
Comments
http://www.cnn.com/CNN/Programs/connie.chung.tonight/

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
13:48:36
Comments
The JWD's are at it again. Instead of conceding to the massive flaws in their doctrine, history and all the misery it has caused people (and continues too), they just use words like “petty person” and suggest that we should belittle “Paul.” No thank you. Why do you think that making excuses for inexcusable behavior is somehow going to change what happened? How will it change what is happening? One definition of insanity is to keep doing the same thing over and over and somehow expecting to get a different result. I can't help but read with a shaking head as I see these people's posts are no different than the JW official position. “WE WILL NEVER CHANGE!” Sad because that means you would be too proud to admit fault, therefore sin, and therefore can not be TRULY forgiven. I'm not condemning you. I feel sorry for you. I feel sorry for all the people who have to continue to suffer because of this pride. The JW quest for “truth” has become a bid to hang onto an “Egotism” belief system that no longer even has roots in the most basics of Christian values.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
14:30:22
Comments
Rich- Are you trying to make a point or just trying goat John? (Both maybe?) You made a list of many cults of personality but you gave no substance to them. Here is a better way of looking at it- Would you stand against them and what they stand (and stood) for? Or, would you sit on the sidelines and say; "Hey that is GODS problem." "If he wants something done he can get off his big white throne and fix it himself." How does this not render you (I.e. JW's) useless to God? "If He (God) does not do something then "dealt with it!" (And you better not do anything!)-I think that I have two hands for a reason. (And they are not to sit on.-SEQ

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
14:31:05
Comments
Rich: Let me start here - I firmly believe in the sincerity of active JWs, it is way too much work for the faint of heart. But to me (and I think most others outside the org., regardless of whether they used to be in it) their militia attitude is a result of the immediacy of the message they feel, and an ends-justifies-the-means attitude. Unfortunately, most witnesses find themselves convinced that they are better off going along withe the "shut up and do what you're told stricture." Yes, mistakes of the 1800's and 1900's are important. They are how the society got to the point where people are in this dictatorial, do-it-or-else mode. Key point: 1914. Christ was going to take the 144,000 (another of my personal favorites) up in a rapture. But as time went by, the society grew to more than 144K and they had to invent another class. So now we have a class that the scripture is mostly intended for, and a class for the rest of us. They get to tell the rest how to interpret scripture snippets. Armageddon is just around the corner, it has been for over a hundred years. It is the basis of the stiuation you are in right now. I promise you this, you can read up as much as you want, but you cannot substantiate that most basic of tenets without quoting Society literature. It has no basis, and yet witnesses take it on life-or-death faith without question. Before any active JW states that he or she is independant enough to question the basic teachings - you would first have to deal with the question of how you would answer a judicial committee when they start by asking you the allegiance questions. If you stood firm, you would be DF'd. You cannot have it both ways. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
14:36:08
Comments
Dittos Buster-Sequia

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
15:36:37
Comments
To Helena Most JW's are honest and humble people.They all came to "Jehovah" to find salvation.Most were just too glad to change their personality but what they have changed into is not what Jesus Christ wants but what the WT Society wants. With other words most of us became Borgs and stayed that way for many years. But jehovah God has nothing to do with this Organization and H is bestowing no blessing there on anyone because they belong to that Cult. Jesus christ is the Judge and the Authority because all of this was given to Him by the Father. We were terribly misled. We mentioned the books of R. Franz who is probably best qualified in this area to write about but just for change why don't you read one by Darek Barefoot: Jehovah's Witnesses and the Hour of Darkness. Helen I am absulutly sure you are just like I was. You want to serve the True God. So learn to understand that it is not God that directs the above mentioned organization. If you read Darek's book it will be plain to you what you are dealing with. And please do not take it to hard to yourself. But this is the Truth and sooner you learn the better for you and all sincere JW'people our dear brothers and sisters.RMK

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
15:45:08
Comments
I very often hear that the Society made mistakes or errors in jugment in Cronology etc. That is not true. THE INVENTED THESE LIES so they could enslave and you and me to their personal benefit.RMNK

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
15:54:57
Comments
to catch 22..can you find something more intelligent to argue about? you have made shots about nothing, is there something you need to hear or asking? you are a jerk....go for it slc, mole tell me what is going on in there. i havent been to meeting since we last wrote. I read all the post since last month wow alot of new ones adding to the guest book. I hope you out there read my post last month. They keep asking me questions but I am holding my own right now. Lodi Brother

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
15:57:05
Comments
Dear silent lambs, progress can be painfully slow. Especially when you are already in intense pain. I think part of the friction we have seen on the guestbook is because of our pain for the Bowens and Andersons pluss the disappointing response of regular witnesses to the media coverage. So here is one small story of incouragement. When I first came to this site my wife said it was apostate. She was very angry when I persisted. After months she was reading it on her own. Then saying things like "maybe Jehovah is using Bill". Then carrying around in her purse a copy of the letter to bodies of elders about the possibility of re-appointment of pedophiles to positions. She pops that letter out everytime someone will talk about it- at the hall, conventions, etc. Then more time passed and she wrote a letter to the GB comparing them to Ananias and Saphira because they witheld information. She has alienated herself from her mother and elder father, but I have hope it will slowly sink in for them also. It was slow, and very difficult in our home for many many months. I tried to be gentle ( blew up sometimes because of my pain as a healing lamb). Larry

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:08:31
Comments
RMK--You're sick. You're at this site to promote false teachings. You're trying to take advantage of wonded souls. You're not talking to a "youngster" nor are you talking to an inexperienced one. YOU are the one that needs to make broader applications. You're very narrow right now and you'll continue to be that way if you don't free your mind from demonic possession. I'm not a borg and there are a lot of people who aren't borgs. They read the Bible on their own and can tell when something isn't right. They don't attack the organization. I don't think you belong at tis web site because it's YOU and the likes of you that make it seem as though this is an apostate web site rather than a support group. Apostate means basically that you have abandoned your beliefs. I don't think most of the people here have abandoned their beliefs, including in this organization. They're HURT and DISAPPOINTED. Probably disallusioned, too, but not incpable of recovery with the right care. No BABE here. Take your preaching to someone else. --JFK

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:13:42
Comments
To RMNK: The conflict is NOT in the organization and what it IN THE MAJORITY TEACHES. The conflict is within EACH ONE OF US. We are imperfect humans and that FREQUENTLY conflicts with what Jehovah God, not the society, requires of us. This conflict can become so great that we hate the society and its teachings because we're letting the war inside of us win over Jehovah God's requirements. It takes TIME and MATURITY to be able to look BEYOND where you're at -- to COME OUT OF YOURSELF -- and to make more objective decisions and conclusions. You really want to take everyone you can get to go down with you, don't you. --JFK

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:18:28
Comments
RMNK: I ain't no babe! Been around the block a few times. It's for sure you haven't been or you would know better.--Helena

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:18:40
Comments

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:27:20
Comments
JW's are not a cult. There's nothing secret about it. People study first. They study exactly what we're all studying. There are no surprises after coming in. No one is encouraging anyone to go away to some isolated land and then give them poisen to drink so they can die and go to heaven or whatever. There are problems that need to be dealt with and that's all. Our Bible's are all open and anyone who wants to can read them. We use other translations, too. No one is prohibited from doing their own personal research and study. I've been everywhere inside and outside the USA. There are some personalities that leave a lot to be desired. I've been glad to get out and meet new ones. A good "secret" to enjoying the entire organization is to get out and meet others. Go to different assemblies. Recognize personalities that are annoying and FIND OTHERS that are more amiable. For the most part, personalities IN the congregation reflect the personalities of the people in general in the area they live in. Some learn that it's Jehovah God's personality that they're supposed to be reflecting. Some don't. We all have that opportunity, though. If we don't take that opportunity, we'll have to be accountable for it. Most suffer NOW for their personalities and stances on things. Some just don't know it and wonder why people don't like them or why this or that is happening to them. Clues everywhere but they don't get it. This in NO WAY is meant to be interpreted that the abuse victims brought it on themselves. This is meant for those aggressive ones, even in a quiet manner, who prey on others for one thing or another.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:30:44
Comments
Buster – You made a WEAK case of asserting that my questions were irrelevant. Irrelevant? You make me laugh. If they were so irrelevant, why do people here want to silenceofthelambs me? Caught up in the messenger? No one here wants to know about the messenger, I see. And they all of a sudden don't care about his history. I'll make you a deal. I'll throw out his history, you throw out WT history, and lets talk about where we are, what's going on. If you insist that WT history is intrinsically related to the current topic, then you must indulge me. YOU can't have it both ways. You toss out my arguments, but want to keep yours, and want to continue a conversation. Give me a break. When you post something worthwhile, I'll respond.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:32:37
Comments
I think what you are doing is a wonderful thing. All those with love in their heart will see the power in allowing people to seek help. The future is bright when we can see the sun on the horizon, a setting sun of hope that tomorrow will be a better day. Abuse does not need to be hidden, abuse needs to be treated and love is the best treatment ... polished with understanding, and plenty of hugs My thought Dragon (dragonsage6@hotmail.com)

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:40:36
Comments
Did Jehovah's Witnesses engage in bloody wars to MAKE PEOPLE BECOME JW's? You're missing the entire apostacy that took place, especially from the time of Constantine. You're working so hard to make the JW's look as though they are this horrid. No wonder no one wants you to hang around with them. You wanted to run the show and they wouldn't let you -- or I should say, Jehovah God wouldn't let you. No one is saying that we don't make mistakes. YOU are saying that.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
16:57:09
Comments
Nice try to explain away once again the abuse that the WTS will not admit to (heck, that it even has that it has a history.) It seems to reason that the average JW (When talking about itself) exists only in the moment (Which has passed already.) But to put a stake threw the heart of your argument about Bills past (Which has NOTHING to with ANYTHING) he works ("right now!") to change a gross injustice that continues even today. The WTS is making more horrible history of distroying lives ("right now!") in the present with no remorse or admitting to its shame. It does not seem to bother the Witnesses that come here one bit. (At least not enough to stand for what is right.) You know the Bible talks about going after lost lambs. WOW!, WOW!, WOW!, what a concept here we are looking to restore people; To vindicate them. The crimes and the sins commited upon so many people. Here, (Right Here!) they hear it said IT IS NOT YOUR FAULT! Mea Culpa belongs to the WTS. Not to its victims!

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
17:21:00
Comments
BUSTER: i think you've hit the nail on the head really. i've told an elder that i keep an open mind on these things. i would say that what you say about 1914 and 144,000 is something of design on the FDS's part. however if i was to teach that this is wrong to others in my cong, i'd know for sure i'd be kicked out. at the end of the day i cant be held responsible for what others read into the WT literature and what they personally believe in. if others want to put faith in those teachings then they've made an informed choice (or at least had the opportunity) to do that. the same as if someone wants to be a Mormon or a catholic or Anglican, then its entirely up to them. i not the person to make others believe differently. the bible is there as a witness to them to show whether what they believe in is right or wrong. there maybe some grey areas that nobody can agree on, such as the 144,000. if the FDS put forward their interpretation of it and people choose to believe, then thats up to them. i'm not the master of their minds. if someone puts forward another interpretation and people want to believe in that then fine. i personally wont want to believe anyone's interpretation, because interpretations belong to God. **** to wrap up these grey areas in truth that other people can agree on, isnt good. basically the FDS create the argument for people such as yourself, because they say that they're right on basic bible truths, and so they must be right on interpretation. history of the WT shows their interpretations arent good, and so i'll stick to basic bible truths. ***** to be honest with you, i stopped going to the KH when i was 8 or 9, because i just hated everything about it. fortunately for myself my dad is not a witness and he said it was ok for me not to go. but in the whole time since then i wondered about the bible, God and Christ. sometimes i would just look at my book of bible stories, and the part that affected me was the page about Christ when he was put to death, every time it would make me cry to see that picture and read that account. and i wondered on why so little emphasis was ever placed on Christ. i mean, i recognised this just as i child! where was all the talk of Jesus? i wondered whether it meant that much to JWs. in my teens i decided that nobody was right. when i got into my 20's decided i wanted to do something about my faith. i looked into other denominations and i wasnt impressed. what i really wanted was to learn about the bible. so i started attending meetings at the KH. i was very suspicious though of the control and over-zealous people there. i knew i wasnt going to believe in everything because there was no way that the scriptures that were quoted to me backed them up. but still, i knew that would be the same wherever i went. i see my baptism as being my new life in Christ. not my new life in the WT. as far as i'm concerned i'm of no part of the WT and FDS, because i knew all along if they were wrong in certain things then i wouldnt want to share in their sins. i have love for my fellow bros and sis, even if some things they believe in, i dont. to say like some people have said like i'm responsible for cover-ups and abuse in the org just because i'm a JW is wrong. it would be like saying that anyone who voted in the US or UK for the respective governments that have been in power since 1996 would be responsible for deaths of over 1 million Iraqi children since sanctions were imposed from that time by the US and UK through the UN. **** Bill is a champion. if i ever met him i would certainly shake his hand, DF'd or not. if i were disfellowshiped for that, then i'd rather be disfellowshiped. as regards a judicial meeting on loyalty to the FDS, i would state the truth as i saw it, i would certainly give them a run for their money so to speak, but i have to remain true to myself and to Christ. you can be assured that it would be difficult for them to pin me down. Rich

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
17:42:59
Comments
HI EVERYONE--------It is sooooooo nice to see we have all gotten back on topic. I was starting to get worried. To the person who asked about talking to Oprah, well I know of a person who will be going to a show that is a spin off of Oprah. It will be the DR PHIL show. I put her in contact directly with Bill. I don't have a show date yet, but the topic has to do with cults. She has been invited on the show already and will let me know when she will be on. For those of you who know me I have been spending alot of my time on the jehovahs-witness.com site. I will try to come here more often like I used to. Job hunting and school about to start has been keeping me busy. Sorry guys and I have missed you all. Welcome to all the new ones here. ****************Love Jesika Thoman--Dallas,Tx

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
17:43:00
Comments
20Qs: All right, this is getting tedious. I went to an effort to tie the relavance of WTS history to its current makeup and policies. Tying in the history and its relavance was key to making the point about current issues. But lets take one more pass by your first question. How many? You put forward your assessment of possible answers as though it is tight. But it isn't. One needn't participate in a coverup to know of one. One needn't be innocent as a newborn to have credible evidence of wrongdoing. Now please, do you doubt the message this site and its visitors deliver? If so lets talk about it. If you believe what he says, then lets talk about how it affects you. Beginning to feel sorry for you, champ ... - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
17:46:36
Comments
DUH! WHO, here, is blaming the victims? Poor reading comprehension, I see, said the brain to the eye. You're full of it -- and it isn't the right "it".--JC

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
17:48:05
Comments
to all funny i was talking to someone today who said he worked for the new york state lottery. we were discussing that if you won the lotto on how to keep as much of the prize as posible i said the lump sum he was giving me tons of info how the gov,t will take your money if you take the lump sum . and if you know me we went back and forth on this. anyway out of nowhere he told me a story about a jw who won 12 million and gave all the money to the watchtower. and how the wt and the lotto winner got in trouble with the gov,t because they were handling the money to cheat the gov,t out of the taxes i could not get anymore info on this anyone out there heard about this . john

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
17:51:53
Comments
With regard to the Witnesses that have posted of late, do you think that we as fellow abused Witnessess got here from the wonderful love and family of the Congregation? No,we now have some place to come and voice our pain about the treatment we received from the so called "Truth". Was I forced into it NO, but was a fed a lot of 'brotherly love that was nothing but a backstabbing party? Yes... Is this one congregation NO, we have visited many congregations, assemblies etc In fact once I came into the Truth the sister that was studying with me used ME as her examlple in a part of the assembly,I was wonderful,strong courageaous I had left my family to be brought into this loving brotherhood PULEAAAAAAAAAAASE (spelled wrong for emphasis on sarcasm) once she decided I wasn't her clone because I wouldn't listen to the weirdness of what she thought and how she wanted me to conduct my life (for examlple: I was 19 my father had left my mother after 32 years of marriage, my mother was without anything and all she had in the world was my daughter and I, but I was to forsake her and not speak to her???? Why because she wasn't a witness) So this sister who a month earlier had spoke of my many merits said another inappropriate thing and I asked her to please leave my apartment. She NEVER forgave me, I should have been the one to hold a grudge but here a Pioneer sister couldn't FORGIVE me for standing my ground...That is just one of the many wonderful things the brotherhood has done for me, my husband was RAISED in the TRUTH the things that he has had to endure is disgusting. So we don't come here because we are apostate we come here to heal from your evil organization... Sheila M

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
18:14:43
Comments
To Bill: I just want to say that I viewed your photo albums and I am really disappointed in you. You came across like such a pompus idiot, as is evident by your expressions and the way you handle matters, that it is no wonder to me that they disfellowshipped you. I believe in what you are trying to do, but I think you are doing all the silentlambs a grave injustice by representing them. I believe that you went to both meetings "half cocked" and ready to do battle, which is the way you have handled this whole matter from the beginning with your "do this or i'll go to the press" attitude. You strike me as a glory hound, or someone who likes attention. I personally would have disfellowshipped you myself for your haughtiness and lack of respect for the people you are trying to convince to change policy. What the hell am I talking about? How about your "can you pick out the fat man", what a way to win them over Bill. You were serving as an elder correct? Don't you think you could have done more in your own congregation to prevent future falicies? Didn't it occur to you that you had more of an ear to those who oversee than you do now. Having lived in that area you are from, I know that you were a respected elder, I heard you speak at my hall a time or two, and I was thoroughly shocked when I found out it was you. As I said said earlier, your wise cracks directed at the wts and other elders, some of whom I know were considered your friends as well as your peers don't deserve the disrespect that you show. Grow Up!

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
18:36:42
Comments
TROLL ALERT: 20 Questions or the infamous FREDHALL is still here: REMEMBER Next time you are on a message board and you see a post by somebody whom you think is a troll, and you feel you must reply, simply write a follow-up message entitled "Troll Alert" and type only this: The only way to deal with trolls is to limit your reaction to reminding others not to respond to trolls.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
18:53:20
Comments
RE: JW's are not a cult. There's nothing secret about it. . . . . . . Okay you're right JW's are not a cult, they are a high control group. You can research that info yourself. 2) There's nothing secret about them…well, maybe I'm just stupid but after 27 years inside the org I found out a lot of secrets. Such as: I really didn't know that the Awake on Child Abuse was written for the “World” and not for the congregation. I didn't know my personal friends, the elders, whom I had dined with, gone boating with, traveled with, shared a thousand moments with, would support a pedophile. I didn't know that they would justify disregarding a court of law's conviction regarding child abuse. I didn't know that they would sell out truth and justice for the watchtower society. It took me 27 years and quite a few kicks in the teeth to realize that what we study in the Watchtower Magazine is NOT THE SAME ADVICE as is given in meetings with CO & elders. Sorry, but we are ruled by a SECRET SOCIETY with unwritten rules that conducts SECRET MEETINGS without the majority present. It's crazy but it is true.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
18:59:17
Comments
RE: JFK It takes TIME and MATURITY to be able to look BEYOND where you're at -- to COME OUT OF YOURSELF -- and to make more objective decisions and conclusions . . . . . . .Would you like to elaborate that point? I don't completely understand what your trying to say

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:27:07
Comments
rich : i read more of your posts your gaining a lot of knowledge so don,t be mad i get HOT sometimes. ok i just try to bring out facts as far as the holy sprit being in your cong. i,m sure 99% in your cong. beleive everything the wt says about 1900 wt,s etc. is it not the watchtower them selves who print today in 2002 that what the wt taught in the past was bible truth . they do this all the time . i just test if the wt is telling the truth . in the case of them glorifing their past . alittle research in most cases show they are lying. so to the jw who wanted to know why i bring up wt history . next time you read a wt and they call some 50 or100 year old watchtower book bible truth etc. take the time to find that book and read it then you will UNDERSTAND what i,m saying till you take the time to do so you don,t have a leg to stand on .reguarding this point and thats one way the wt gets people to believe they have the truth because they know 99.9% of jws never look up what they hide from jws. and if you hand out wt mags AND HAVE NOT TESTED EVERYTHING IN THAT MAG AND I MEAN EVERYTHING. YOU WILL NEVER BE SURE IF YOUR BEARING FALSE WITNESSES IN THE NAME OF THE LORD. JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:36:27
Comments
Maybe only an ex-JW or someone else in that situation will understand this. "It is a scary thing to look deep inside yourself and when you get to the core of who you are, when you see all the things that you have done to people and then you realize that you don't know who person is staring back at you." Rich talks a lot about "belifes" and "perceptions" but most here talk about actions. I hope soon the scales will drop off his, and others eyes. This comming from someone who spent enough time debating scripture while under spiritual attack. I have now learned that I was the same kind of "arsehole" without the religion. Now I call myself a reforming one. (Again thanks for the lessons linda) And Jessika, I am glad that you are ok I was worried about you.-Sequia

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Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:39:26
Comments
MILLIONS LIVING IN 1925 ARE NOW DEAD!. MILLIONS LIVING IN 1914 ARE NOW DEAD! MILLIONS LIVING IN 1975 ARE NOW DEAD!. TIME is ALWAYS the enemy of a false prophet, be it a single person or an "organization" that arrogantly claims to be the sole "channel' for the Creator. The Watchtower carrot, a paradise earth coming "SOON" is rotted. Gird yourselves up like men and stand against the bethel despots. They are arrogant, deceived men who are deceiving millions, and teaching them to do the same to others. The JWs, Mormons, Christian Scientists and other cult groups are the "bad debts" of the church.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:53:16
Comments
So jehovah's witnesses covers up pediophilia... what did you expect? It's a cult organization, just like the roman catholic church. Hie yourself to a fundamentalist church ... like the lutherans or pentacosts. www.aunty-violet.com

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:55:23
Comments
great job Bill, Fish rots from the head down,

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:56:28
Comments
TO THAT JW WHO SAID I,M A RACIST THE HAS WT TAUGHT YOU WELL ON HOW TO TWIST OTHER PEOPLES WORDS TO GLORIFY THE WT AND AVIOD THE FACTS OF THE STATEMENT MADE. I ONLY QUOTED WHAT THE WATCHTOWER PRINTED ABOUT BLACK PEOPLE. NOW THAT YOU GOT ME ON THE SUBJECT LET ME GIVE YOU SOME MORE WT RACIST QUOTES REMEMBER THESE ARE WATCHTOWER QUOTES NOT MINE. BLACKS ARE TO DUM TO DO THE PREACHING WORK. BY MEASURING THE SIZE AND SHAPE OF ONES NOSE,SKULL,TEXTURE OF THEIR HAIR ETC. WE CAN MEASURE ONES INTELLIGENTS. GOD CREATED NEGRO RACE TO SERVE GODS CHOOSEN RACE. ARIANS . THE BLOOD LINES PROVE GOD BREAD THE ARIAN RACE TO BE HIS CHOOSEN PEOPLE JEWISH PEOPLE ARE BLOODSUCKERS ETC. BLACKS ARE NOTHING BUT DRUNKS, ADULTURERS, LAZY,LIARS,ETC AND DON,T HAVE THE SPRIT OF GOD. IF I LOOK ALL THESE WATCHTOWER QUOTES AGAIN REMEMBER THESE QUOTES WERE PRINTED IN THE WT. I KNOW I COULD FIND 50 MORE SO REMEMBER IN YOUR REPLY ATTACK MY SPELLING AND SAY THAT I PRINTED THESE WATCHTOWERS . THEN YOU WILL CHANGE THE SUBJECT TO BUT WHO,S DOING THE PREACHING WORK. THEN YOU WILL FEAL JUSTIFIED IN AVIODING THE SUBJECT. FREEDOM IN CHRIST TO ALL JOHN

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Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:57:28
Comments
Connie Chung CNN: Fabulous interview Bill, Heidi and Amber! Watchtower needs to stop lying. The public is pretty clear at this point in time: Churches will lie about child abuse, the Catholic Church lied, the Jehovah's Witnesses are lying. Time to come clean WTBS! Nobody believes your lies anyway anymore whatever

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:57:55
Comments
#1...I think your website sucks ass. I think this propaganda you are spreading is bs and any and all who are involved will judged.#2...I think its wrong for you to get on national TV and spread lies about the witnesses, people who go door to door to let people like you know the truth. Witnesses may not be perfect and may have molested people but it is wrong for you to classify all witnesss as fucking child molesters.and #3... I think its interesting that all this propaganda is being spread so loudly after the child molestation charges were spread against the catholic church. Maybe this is all a big conspiracy to take the heat off the catholics and place it on a people who obviously want to do nothing but good for their fellow man. The individual should be persecuted, not the entire religion....

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
19:58:45
Comments
I think this site is really wonderful..i hope that many will come to visit it...as a Catholic i really feel for these children and hope that their faith will not be harmed ...God bless

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:00:59
Comments
All I can say is keep fighting. This Watchtower needs to get off of the throne, and see itself as a servant, not a god. And remember that we can't do it on our own. Let God be our strength. SBW

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Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:02:29
Comments
Bill- I just watched your piece on Connie Chung and was moved, touched and inspired by your dedication to victims of molestation. It takes a strong person to step up and do the right thing - especially when your own family is being turned against you. I admire your courage in the face of adversity. Please, give my best to Heidi and Amber. Don't give up, ladies! Keep up the fight. Be tough. You deserve so much more in life and you'll get it, I know. With love, Kirsten A. Los Angeles, CA kandresen@sbcglobal.net

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:03:07
Comments
Great Site, This needs to be in the open. Too long has it been a secret.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:07:29
Comments
I saw your brief program tonight with Connie Chung on CNN. It's unbelievable what has been going on and I believe every word of your stories! I have myself seen first hand how religious leaders and elders destroy people's lives! I'm studying your excellent website and will see what I can do to help. Michael Ripka, Writer heismanthemovie@aol.com

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:07:37
Comments
hello. my name is vicki and ive been visiting your site ever since ive learned of it through my on going research to expose the witnesses. i have been praying jehovah expose them for the liers they are. then i flip on CNN and i see connie chung interviewing hydi and amber and bill and i was so appreciative. it really made me feel that my prayers are being answered ... please keep up the good work and feel free for anyone to e-mail me sgt_pepper64@webtv.net agape :)

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:08:17
Comments
To all the children tell the law never be scared of the churches threats .if they dont take care of you, you must take care of yourselves.there is a god but he is not these people who hide molesters under his name.god will never abandon you ,he gives you the strenth to come out and tell the law these horrandus stories.i just heard some of you on cnn connie chung and you make me proud.you are not alone you allways have god ,he will carry you. Rob Odber Sault ste marie ontario canada

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:10:59
Comments
Hello Bill, I just saw the interview with Connie Chung a few minutes ago, and thought I should contact you and commend you for your stand on ALL the issues you have recently faced. I have never been one of Jehovah's Witnesses, but have met and discussed various religious topics with very many of them. My late uncle was a member for many years, and we had many great discussions about the Bible together, in the days when I was a young Pentecostal fanatic. He never knew it, but he helped me to re-examine my position on lots of issues, and approach them from different angles in order to arrive at more accurate conclusions. I was priveledged to have lived in Lethbridge, Alberta, Canada during the 1980's, and became friends with Dr. M. James PENTON, and others who were eventually disfellowshipped for various reasons. I attended the new group they formed called Lethbridge Bible Students for some time, and kept in touch with some of them until we moved away in 1985. Dr. Penton would be a good contact for you about how the WTS deals with members who think for themselves, and believe the BIBLE above organizations run by men. Let me know if you wish to contact him, and I will help you get in touch. While still in the Society he wrote a book on the history of Jehovah's Witnesses in Canada. Kindest regards, Dale Updike, North Battleford, Saskatchewan, Canada

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:11:10
Comments
This whole organization has a history of cover ups and lies. This is why their growth is slowing or reversing in developed countries. You people at the top of the organization now this too. I know you are reading this. People are becoming aware of what this "church" is all about. PRIDE PRIDE PRIDE You have little or no credibility. You know.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:11:49
Comments
I just watched Mr. Bowen on CNN with Connie Chung. I studied with the Jehovah Witnesses as a teenager. I am a survivor on incest, but not at the hands of a Jehovah Witness. This story outrages me. Do these elders really choose to uphold there religous convictions and stand by while innocent children are being victimized. I am so proud that you Mr. Bowen feel in your heart that the lives of these children are more important than being shunned by even your own father. I was very close to being baptized into the Jehovah Witnesses. I am now glad that I made a choice not to. I strongly support what you are doing for these children. Thank you... Disgusted in Pasadena, Ca.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:17:16
Comments
Excellent interview! WAY TO GO SILENTLAMB CHAMPS!!!!! Bill, Amber, and Heidi spoke from the heart! I would like to personally know all of you so this statement wouldn't seem so…. “ I AM PROUD TO KNOW YOU, EVEN IF IT'S IS THRU THE LAMBS! ESPECIALLY THAT IT IS THRU THE LAMBS! You all are fighters! True children of the FATHER! OF TRUTH AND OF LOVE!” Bless you all! bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:17:41
Comments
I have worked with a Jehvovahs Witness for nearly 10 years. You would think that she'd be interested in this web site, but since I've known her she's shunned anythng negative having to do with the Watch Tower. She's quick to condenm the Catholic's with the same problem's, based only on what she's heard. But in her eye's, the Watch Tower can do no wrong. I'll tell her about the CNN story and give her your web address. It'll be interesting to see how she reacts. I'd like to think she's the kind of person who would not accept that kind of behaviour from any kind of church leadership. I've been trying to reach her for years. Any tips you may have would be welcomed. Good Luck with your cause. Dale Smrall ADSUMRALL@CS.COM

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Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:28:21
Comments
I wish the show was a little longer but Connie Chung had a deadline to meet I guess. Bill does it once again. The two young girls spoke well and this will draw the attention of the corrupt WT boys. I hope to meet these brave souls in September. I hope that they do a follow-up pretty soon. WAY TO GO!!!! see ya around, Wil Reese

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:28:33
Comments
My sister and her family and all her friends are jws. Her son molested a ten year old boy in the neighborhood. He was prosecuted and sent to a bootcamp for 30 days. He is still a member of the Hall. I wonder if he has been abused. I hope that someone can stop these people from hurting childern. My sisters little girl is very active in thier religion. I hope she is safe.Jerseyjones1@aol.com

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:33:24
Comments
WHO POSTED AUG 14 11-31-28 YOUR RIGHT ON THE MONEY ON HOW YOU EXPOSE THE WT. AS FOR BROCHA REPLY TO YOU IT WAS A REAL WATCHTOWER BEAUTY HOW SHE CHANGED THE FOCUS OFF THE WT LIES AND IMPLIED YOUR LIKE A CHILD MOLESTER READ FALLICIES IN ARGUEMENTION 5-22-90 THEN LOOK IN THE MIRROR BROCHA BECAUSE THATS WHAT YOU DID TO THIS WT EXPOSER IN ORDER TO LIE TO YOURSELF THAT THE WT IS GREAT AND HER FACTUIAL POST WAS NOT INPORTANT . WHEN I FACT EVERYTHING SHE SAID WAS TRUE. BROCHA YOU ARE LUCKY I DIDN,T BLOW YOU RIGHT OUT OF THE BOX. I,LL START BY BEING NICE IF YOU REPLY AND TRY SOME OF THOSES WATCHTOWER LIES ON ME I MIGHT NOT BE SO NICE NEXTTIME. JOHN

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
20:41:24
Comments
In the late 50's This happened to my children by their father. I reported to brother and he was disfellowshiped. I also went to police and I had to take girls to doctor's. and then dectives told me it would be to hard for for the girls to testify in fornt of their father, so I had to drop the case,I divorced him and I lost count how many times he remarried had childern and molested them. But he did get disfellowed three more times and than I lost track because he has lived all over the Us glotino@zcloud.com

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
21:01:42
Comments
I am visiting your web site because I saw Mr. Bowen on the Connie Chung show and the information about this web site. I will say that I am an elder in good standing in a congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States. I am leaving a comment because it should be said that I deplore child abuse and have never met another elder anywhere that would support such deplorable behavior. Over the years the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses has published to the elders and the publishers a plethora of information on how to deal with child abuse and I am absolutely certain that the governing body absolutely deplores such behavior and that it is routinely and severly condemned by all the theological doctrine of the Bible, regardless of the translation used. It should be remembered that elders in the congregations serve on a voluntary basis and do not have any formalistic training beyond basic Bible theology that is readily available to all in the congregation. Even publications published by the Watchtower and Bible Society as policy manuals to be used by the elders are based solely on information and theological doctrine that is widely available thru all the various publications published by the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society and made available to the public at large. Having said all that, it does not surprise me that there are individuals within the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society that act contrary to Bible doctrine. Being baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not an immediate guarantee that an individual will not falter or commit serious wrongdoing. There is more than ample evidence in the Bible concerning Christians of the first century who routinely struggled with serious sins condemned by Bible doctrine. The Jewish nation that centered their worship around Jehovah for almost 1500 years repeatedly fell into continuing ongoing spirals of deplorable behavior which caused God on several occassions to severly punish them. It should be no surprise that today these types of problems persist for after everything is said and done, man still falls severly short of the mark. It is no surprise either to hear of cases of poor judgement on the part of congregation elders for the Bible tells us that it is a monumental task for individuals to even guide a single footstep. The unfortunate thing about child abuse is that (just as is correctly stated several times on your web site) it is a sin that happens in the dark without witnesses and involves the most innocent of all - children. All to often individuals that join a congregation believe that elders can deal with all situations when in reality there are definitive limitations on what we can do. It is correct that two or more witnesses are required to take action against an individual. What are the alternatives? While I am sure that elders would love to be able to read hearts that is simply not a means available to them. However, in my experience the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses has made more than a good faith effort in attempting to comply with the laws of the land in whatever country their are congregations in. It is often the case though that in this world which has so many laws and so many people making money off of interpreting the laws that it is not uncommon to find people who don't fully understand all the aspects of the legal system and their duties to comply therewith. There are some problems in society that regardless of laws and intentions, there will be no complete answer. No satisfactory response to right a wrong. No penalty equatable to the offense. There will be those who error and do so with arrogance. But in the end history, the Bible, life tells us that those who do bad to others will reap just compensation for their wrongdoing. In the interim our hearts weep for the pain of others, the sufferings that go unanswered. I am an elder and I will say with the greatest of convictions that the way of truth that Jesus espoused some 2000 years ago remains the only path of true happiness. And while man may sully the path along the way, one who persists in living a life based on standards and principles put forth in God's Holy Word will gain a greater happiness than can be found anywhere else. Till God brings the final succor to those who anguish, the pain of those who have been wronged will always be foremost in my prayers to Jehovah.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
21:01:52
Comments
I am visiting your web site because I saw Mr. Bowen on the Connie Chung show and the information about this web site. I will say that I am an elder in good standing in a congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses in the United States. I am leaving a comment because it should be said that I deplore child abuse and have never met another elder anywhere that would support such deplorable behavior. Over the years the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses has published to the elders and the publishers a plethora of information on how to deal with child abuse and I am absolutely certain that the governing body absolutely deplores such behavior and that it is routinely and severly condemned by all the theological doctrine of the Bible, regardless of the translation used. It should be remembered that elders in the congregations serve on a voluntary basis and do not have any formalistic training beyond basic Bible theology that is readily available to all in the congregation. Even publications published by the Watchtower and Bible Society as policy manuals to be used by the elders are based solely on information and theological doctrine that is widely available thru all the various publications published by the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society and made available to the public at large. Having said all that, it does not surprise me that there are individuals within the Watchtower and Bible Tract Society that act contrary to Bible doctrine. Being baptized as one of Jehovah's Witnesses is not an immediate guarantee that an individual will not falter or commit serious wrongdoing. There is more than ample evidence in the Bible concerning Christians of the first century who routinely struggled with serious sins condemned by Bible doctrine. The Jewish nation that centered their worship around Jehovah for almost 1500 years repeatedly fell into continuing ongoing spirals of deplorable behavior which caused God on several occassions to severly punish them. It should be no surprise that today these types of problems persist for after everything is said and done, man still falls severly short of the mark. It is no surprise either to hear of cases of poor judgement on the part of congregation elders for the Bible tells us that it is a monumental task for individuals to even guide a single footstep. The unfortunate thing about child abuse is that (just as is correctly stated several times on your web site) it is a sin that happens in the dark without witnesses and involves the most innocent of all - children. All to often individuals that join a congregation believe that elders can deal with all situations when in reality there are definitive limitations on what we can do. It is correct that two or more witnesses are required to take action against an individual. What are the alternatives? While I am sure that elders would love to be able to read hearts that is simply not a means available to them. However, in my experience the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses has made more than a good faith effort in attempting to comply with the laws of the land in whatever country their are congregations in. It is often the case though that in this world which has so many laws and so many people making money off of interpreting the laws that it is not uncommon to find people who don't fully understand all the aspects of the legal system and their duties to comply therewith. There are some problems in society that regardless of laws and intentions, there will be no complete answer. No satisfactory response to right a wrong. No penalty equatable to the offense. There will be those who error and do so with arrogance. But in the end history, the Bible, life tells us that those who do bad to others will reap just compensation for their wrongdoing. In the interim our hearts weep for the pain of others, the sufferings that go unanswered. I am an elder and I will say with the greatest of convictions that the way of truth that Jesus espoused some 2000 years ago remains the only path of true happiness. And while man may sully the path along the way, one who persists in living a life based on standards and principles put forth in God's Holy Word will gain a greater happiness than can be found anywhere else. Till God brings the final succor to those who anguish, the pain of those who have been wronged will always be foremost in my prayers to Jehovah.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
21:05:30
Comments
PLEASE JFK YOU SAID MINOR MISTAKES YOU SAY HA HA HA I HAVE HEARD YOUR EXACT WATCHTOWER PARROT SPEECH 1000 TIMES WORD FOR WORD . HOW LONG DID IT TAKE YOU TO MEMORIZE THAT WT LIE????WYOU AT LEAST 37 FALSE PROPHECIES FOR THE END OF THE WORLD MINOR??? WHAT HAPPENED TO GODS WORD THAT HITLER WAS THE KING OF THE NORTH AND THE U.S. AND BRITIAN WERE GOING TO LOSE THE WAR TO HITLER AND BECOME DICTATORSHIPS. I GUESS THE ANGELS LOST THE MESSAGE FROM JEHOVAH ON THE WAY TO RUTHERFORD . MINOR RIGHT WHAT ABOUT THE CREATORS PROMISE IN EVERY AWAKE UP TILL NOV. 95 THAT THE WORLD WILL END IN THE 1914 GENERATION . WHAT ABHOUT THAT NEW WT THAT SAID MILLIONS NOW LIVING WILL NEVER DIE . I ASKED A FEW DAYS AGO FOR A JW LIKE YOU TO LOOK IT UP . WHAT HAPPENED. READ SOME OF MY POSTS DO YOUR HOMEWORK . YOU REMIND ME OF THE FOOLS IN PROVERBS. A COUPLE OF STUDIES WITH ME I,LL HAVE YOUR HEAD SPINNING AND STEAM COMING OUT OF YOUR EARS .ACORDING TO THE BIBLE YOU HAVE SHOWN YOU FOLLOW THE MEN OF LAWLESNESS, AS JESUS SAID THERE WILL BE MANY COMING IN MY NAME SAYING THE TIME IS AT HAND.DON,T FOLLOW THEM . SO IF I WANT TO FOLLOW JESUS I CAN,T FOLLOW THE WT. DON,T TRY ME I,LL WILL MAKE YOU CONTRADICT YOURSELF OVER AND OVER AND CATCH YOU IN MANY WT LIES. AND THERE ARE MANY WITNESSES HERE. REMEMBER I WARNED YOU !!! FREEDOM IN CHRIST TO ALL SOMETHING JFK DON,T HAVE JOHN

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Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
21:20:04
Comments
Thank you for contacting CNN Interactive with your comments. CNN Interactive Community Staff //////// And you are very welcome!!! bonnielyn!

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
21:34:03
Comments
To the Elder who made this statement - Till God brings the final succor to those who anguish, the pain of those who have been wronged will always be foremost in my prayers to Jehovah. _____________ I thank you for the genuine way that you posted! I am severely concerned though, with the statements made by your very own Mr. Brown. As I hope that you are aware, he has stated in the media that you as an org. allow and send ‘known' pedophiles door to door. Do you feel that this is a good thing? He even stated that ‘they might not send them to neighborhoods that know them' How sir, can this be a good thing? As I am not a baptized Jehovah's Witness, I am on the outside looking in, and by Mr. Brown's very own words he has let us ‘outsiders' feel very much afraid! This is NOT a good thing. To send a ‘known' pedophile to the homes of children is NOT a good thing. Is it? I would greatly appreciate your insight into this. Thank you, bonnielyn

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
22:08:21
Comments
Sheila: Thru all the hubbub over the last couple day I didn't reply to your note about the 48hrs episode on the McMartin Day Care case (massive child abuse convictions for which several members of one family went to jail). Anyway, if you're interested I would like to reiterate that there was no physical evidence, either the children themselves or the things they spoke about. Of course I wasn't at the trial, but it was always a big part of the defense assertions - and the prosecusiotn did not refure. But I am glad that hit the salient point about the press coverage and participation. The press was along for the ride and was very much a part of the witch hunt that happened in Massachusetts that year. - Buster

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Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
22:28:21
Comments
Buster, I went on the web and found some other cases the same years GEESH no physical evidence at all. Very interesting cases, I think it's as harmful to the children when NOTHING happened and they are coached than when it did. Children should be believed but when the mother of the child is found to be schyzophfrenic, in the case where speaking of also she leveled charges before that were found baseless. Seems there has to be a middle ground, but telling victims to remain quiet is NEVER a choice and the Witnessess are seeing that repercussion Sheila

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
22:33:41
Comments
Saw your piece on TV tonight 8/14. I applaud you for standing up for these children when nobody else in the church would. God Bless you.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
22:52:46
Comments
Rich: Very well reasoned post. Thanks for the personal view. Dad wasn't a Witness huh? Neither was mine - and I am also thankful for it. You seem to be on an accelerated pace, at least as related to me, but only to the point where we both take stock of spirituality. No way am I ever going back. No, nothing else out there impresses me either. But I'll tell you this, I think the Greek scriptures are collective advice for us, as individuals to establish and maintain our own relationship with God. The scriptures have very little direct orders to do this, do that, worship this way or that. What there is, I feel is more flexible than most would want to attribute to it. Some time ago you asked for my beliefs. Here's one: Organized religion, big and small, serves those that need it. But I relate it to the Isrealites' demands for a king. They needed something that they could name, see, point to, and call a king. God didn't lose an argument and give them one. I don't believe for a second that God didn't know that they would insist on a king, that htey had to have one. But he had the discourse with them nonetheless. Why? So the event would be saved for posterity. Moral of the story: we shouldn't need the overhead, but if you do, it is available. I believe that we are to establish our own relationship with Christ, take responsibility for our own decisions, and excercise our obligations to help others. I don't consider myself religious at all. But would hold up my morals and the way I've lived my life up to anyone's. Normally, I can abide someone's commitment to a religion. But I remember the witnesses. I remember the oppression of thought and personal opinion. I remember the haughtiness and self-righteousness of elders (the newer the worse). But what really twists my panties is any logic from a JW that smacks of the fatalistic attitude that they often use to justify coverup. I blame those that step up to a position of authority and fail to lead in a truly Christian fashion. But also I blame those that participate by accepting that authority - the enablers in today's parlance. I think most witnesses fall into one of the two groups. Gotta go, gettin' misty over here. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
23:02:31
Comments
I am one of Jehovah's Witnesses. I saw the program on CNN tonight. I have been in the congregation for many years, even before there were elders. There are many problems in the congregation. In general, whatever a woman has to say holds much less weight than a man. However, I believe that the real problems in the congregations stem from the fact that the vast majority of men serving as elders do not really meet the scriptual requirements to serve in that capacity.

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
23:05:21
Comments
To Bill: I just want to say that I viewed your photo albums and I am really disappointed in you. You came across like such a pompus idiot, as is evident by your expressions and the way you handle matters, that it is no wonder to me that they disfellowshipped you. I believe in what you are trying to do, but I think you are doing all the silentlambs a grave injustice by representing them. I believe that you went to both meetings "half cocked" and ready to do battle, which is the way you have handled this whole matter from the beginning with your "do this or i'll go to the press" attitude. You strike me as a glory hound, or someone who likes attention. I personally would have disfellowshipped you myself for your haughtiness and lack of respect for the people you are trying to convince to change policy. What the hell am I talking about? How about your "can you pick out the fat man", what a way to win them over Bill. You were serving as an elder correct? Don't you think you could have done more in your own congregation to prevent future falicies? Didn't it occur to you that you had more of an ear to those who oversee than you do now. Having lived in that area you are from, I know that you were a respected elder, I heard you speak at my hall a time or two, and I was thoroughly shocked when I found out it was you. As I said said earlier, your wise cracks directed at the wts and other elders, some of whom I know were considered your friends as well as your peers don't deserve the disrespect that you show. Grow Up!

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
23:10:24
Comments
slc i had so much more wt material i had a stack of maybe 2 or 3 feet high of wt lies at my fathers house hoping he would read some. after he through me out to live in the street . i went back to get my files . he filed them alright straight in the garbage.he said something about demons being in my files . i said your right it,s all wt teachings . he ran to the phone and told me i better leave before the police come.. john

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
23:20:07
Comments
********THE MOLE**********larry that post is what i have been talking about. its hard to give up when your family is all involved. wow i cant believe the tv really hit hard to the head. reformation for us that have no were to go is the only us for us. i cannot go to any church without fear, no holidays has released me, but in fate I have doomed myself in a cage. I will continue to seek Ray Franz's thought to help me through this......*****The MOLE**

Remote User:

Date:
14 Aug 2002
Time:
23:31:57
Comments
To the "elder in good standing" that posted at 20:21:42 on Aug 14, with all due respect your response sounds just too smooth. In my church if ANY minister, elder. deacon, or lay leader is informed about any type child abuse, they are to urge the victim to report it to the police, and the leader is to report it themself. Our church's children are definately in a more secure situation than those in the so-called "truth". No matter whether the congregation is in one of the few states that demand reporting or not, we believe that EVERY child is worthy of the safety of knowthat they will be heard, and aided in prosecuting such SINFUL and SICK persons. In addition, the perpetrator, once guilt is determinede, will no longer hold a position of trust or be employed by the local assembly. They rarely have to be expelled because they normally leave on their own, relizing the GIG IS UP! Our standards are definately higher than the WT, who only report when the law forces them to. As far as me "defacing" literature left in a public place-- thge fact that it is left in a PUBLIC place means that, first, it belongs to NO ONE, and secondly, it is mine to do with as I please once i take possession of it. By the way, your members don't replace all, or even most of the "defaced" literature. As for me being like the pedophiles for zeroing in on the "newer" witness trainee, remember, THEY A:WAYS start the conversation going. Usually, I'm minding my own business when they, oh so innocently, ask me if I would "like something to read". I am not really "entertained" by the newer one's delima. Remember, I ask them their personal view. But usully they have this terrifies, uncomfortable look on their face as they glance back at the older witness, seemingly afraid to say the "wrong thing". But, I will admit, that it is entertaining to see how long the older witness can take being made to ne quiet while i have a one-on-one conversation with their magazine-placer trainee! Eventually, the o;der witness decides that THEY have had enough and attempts to end the conversation, of which they are no part anyway. I love being a member of a church where we love each other, minister to the needs of the community, and grow in God's grace. I often say that if every church in a given neighborhood was to disappear, the community would feel the void within a week. However, if every Kingdom hall was to disappear if would probably go unnoticed, because the impact upon the community is so negligible. People in my neighborhood know that when they really need help, they can come to our doors, and have their temporal and spiritual needs met, at least for the short term. A Kingdom Hall is twoo blocks down the street, and I have often asked many of the peole we sere why they don't seek help from the all. they always say that the JWs only want to start a study, or give them a book or magazine. Studies, books and mags do fill empty stomachs, house the homeless, or clothe the naked. I believe that our Lord FED the crowd before he preached to them. We follow His wonderful example in that regard. I will not mention my denomination, because we are just doing the will of God in our neighborhood, as so many other churches are doing. Since many witnesses are TERRIFIED of coming to a Christian church, they can only belief the lies the WT feeds them. Most Christians I know LOVE the Lord, live God-honoring lives, and are assets to there communities. Decent folk. I remember my pastor saying that JWs and Mormons are a mission-field on our doorstep. I always witness to them and share the good news of the Gospel of Christ. they will be accountable for what they hear. It's my job to live and preach the Gospel, and the Holy Spirit's job to convict the unsaved religionists who come to my door uninvited. Lawrence

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
00:53:43
Comments
John: I am no witness defender. But I have a hunch this is some OLD religious version of an urban legend. I've heard the story of the brother that won the lottery and arranged a deal with the Society to receive a donation, take the complete write-off, and then receive some portion of the money back, under the table, from the Society. That story must be 20 years old. I can't refute it. But I've never heard verifiable detail either - no state where it happened or anything else that would be independently verifiable. Unless someone can provide such detail, I would dismiss it for now. - Buster

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
01:26:30
Comments
I LOVED this description: "I heard the way they [elders] spoke to my dad and it was like a quiet serpent with soft words and a superior attitude, like they knew gods thoughts." AND THIS ONE, TOO: "Our conscience is a gift from god and should not be exploited." ---- THANKS for sharing your story about your mom, dad, JW family, and how you feel about it all. Sounds like you have a very good head on your shoulders! ---/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
01:29:32
Comments
Bonnielynn, Your 12 questions were EXCELLENT, some I had not even thought of yet!!! Thanks!/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
01:49:47
Comments
Dear NOT ALONE: Great post, great thoughts, thanks for the info about Bernard McCann's book and the quotes from it. The confusion and paranoia in the KHalls these days must be unbearable. How evil for the CO & elder to visit you until false pretense, pretending to care about your health. That is so disgusting. I'm sure in their eyes they are justified because it is "Theocratic War Strategy." Hang in there! Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
01:50:52
Comments
Typo, sorry... was supposed to read: UNDER false pretense...

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
02:10:21
Comments
To: Yes I Do Research who ended their post with HAHAHA! ---- Hey, that was a GREAT POST! Your creative ideas were tooo funny! Loved the idea to write on the WT mags, "silent lambs/freeminds, etc." And agree about the typos. Nobody's perfect. Love/SLC

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
02:11:55
Comments
LOLOL! -- One neighbor now asks the ones who come to her door, "Are either of you pedophiles"? That is the first question she asks them.----- ROFLOL !!!! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
02:14:23
Comments
Is your Dad Dr. Phil by any chance? He says funny stuff like this! /SLC PS: Great inspiration you gave as well! ----- "my Dad used to say-"Throw a brick into a pack of dogs, and the one that is hit will bark the loudest"!

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
02:27:42
Comments
Lodi Brother, glad you're holdy steady, good to hear from you again. take care! /SLC

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
02:30:11
Comments
Healing Lamb Larry: That is great about your wife. Loved the story. Yes, it's a slow process, we all are or have gone thru it. She sounds very brave whipping out that BOE letter at conventions, etc. Guess they cannot DF someone for pointing out their own writings, eh? Of course they will ask her, Where did you get that? From an apostate site? -- Well, take care and thanks for sharing. SLC

Remote User:

Date:
15 Aug 2002
Time:
02:47:20
Comments
John, LOL about the lotto story and the 12 mil! What a coincidence the person brought that up, and with of ALL people, YOU! You must have felt HS pouring down to hear such a jewell of jw/wts story. - No, I've never heard that one. JWs are not supposed to GAMBLE nor play the lottery. So, if they DID and won, I would think they would be too afraid for anyone to know about it. But since lotto makes the winner public knowledge, once he was "found out" of his sin of gambling, then in order to appease the False Profits (GB), he made a pact with the Devil: Please GB don't DF me for the lotto You See; I will give YOU the money behind close doors if you promise not to DF me!--- Just a little ditty of a poem by SLC. :) --- Seriously, I've never heard that about the 12 mil. You should post the Q and the story at www.jehovahs-witnesses.com. If anybody's heard it, they would know, or write Randy Watters at his www.freeminds.org site. OR, you could email the IRS and inquire if they know about it. I would really like to know if it's true 'cuz a JW was bemoaning about all the hard-earned money that the friends/JWs donate to WTBTS being ROBBED by the LAMBS and their supporters. I'd love to be able to show this person the WTS got 12 mil from a GAMBLING BROTHER. --- Funny story nonetheless, and you were in the right place at the right time, it